I picked up a set of these in 2015 and fell in love with them. I liked them so much I also grabbed the 25CC centre, matching 45RS surrounds and the 310S sub. The system is impressive to say the least. A rich soundscape with solid lows mids and highs. What I like about them most is that the highs are not straining to the ear even for extended periods, the mids cut through super clean, but again do not cut your eardrums and the lows are solid and punchy. I ended up getting two sets of these, as I enjoyed the first set so much I used the 2nd set to replace my Cerwin Vega 5.1 setup, which were due for it anyway.
Don't listen to the sheeple, who all seem to think Klipsch are the best speakers on the market, I hope you ended up getting a pair of these, it would be a good move on your part. I can safely say they are amazing speakers. |
Dekay, yes, I have read everything I could find on the internet on them. Not very flattering.
Thanks. |
River251:
Have you researched the Roth speakers? |
Oops, I forgot a couple recommendations for recorded drums. Earl Klugh Trio volume I. Lewis Nash's drums sound very in-the-room, particularly his brushwork solo on "One Note Samba." Tower of Power: Direct has very realistically recorded drums using state-of-the-art (at the time) tube microphones and recorded directly from the mixing console to make a 2-channel master. I have this in both LP and CD. Both remarkably capture drums. Dick Hyman: From the Age of Swing, an HDCD recording made by Reference Recordings and Keith Johnson, inventor of HDCD. Butch Miles (former drummer for Count Basie and chops equal to Buddy Rich) does the drumming. |
04-22-12: River251
It was tight with the Anthem. Only once or twice did I notice any boominess. Plus they did not put the spikes in, and it was a foot from the back wall. I pulled it out 2 more feet but not much difference. Probably a 15x15 listening room. Think it might be OK?
If it was tight with the Anthem, then the boomy bass issue would foremost be the 8B's higher output impedance and therefore, its damping factor. Tube output stages (especially vintage ones) with a high output impedance translate into bloomy loose bass unless they have an extensively wound transformer with 4-ohm taps. The 15x15 room would be particularly problematic, as the resonance of a 15' wavelength would be doubled (at least) compared to a room with only one 15' dimension. 75 Hz puts out a 15-foot wavelength. That splits the difference between the D and Db not quite 2 octaves below middle C on a piano. If your room is not square and has different dimensions than the audition room, you can just about count on any resonant modes being elsewhere, and probably not as strong. 3' from the wall *plus* spikes should make a significant difference.
I plan to post elsewhere to get help finding the most well-recorded jazz double bass CD of all time, and the best-recorded jazz drum kit.
Two of the best acoustic bass recordings I've heard (and have) are Modern Jazz Quartet's "The Watergate Blues" on their "Echoes, The Modern Jazz Quartet Together Again 1984", also available on "The Best of the Modern Jazz Quartet," a CD which is still in print and available from Amazon. Watergate Blues is an extended bass solo by Percy Heath, well mic'd and recorded. It's one of my gold standards for plucked acoustic upright bass. The other is Christian McBride's well-recorded opening to Diana Krall's "All or Nothing at All" on her " Love Scenes" album. Another song on that album, "Peel Me a Grape," is good for hearing a speaker's resolution. A resolving one will easily reveal the reverb added to the mix, and the little special effects (like the popping of a cork) in the song. |
Jamie (Zydo), would you terribly mind emailing me at jkk251 at gmail dot com ?
I would really like to ask a couple questions since you have these speakers and are familiar with other brands.
It would be a tremendous help, thanks. |
It was tight with the Anthem. Only once or twice did I notice any boominess. Plus they did not put the spikes in, and it was a foot from the back wall. I pulled it out 2 more feet but not much difference. Probably a 15x15 listening room. Think it might be OK?
Mechans, well, I have the 8B, cost me $1200...in 93. Now I need new speakers and have little denaro. Pokito pessos. These are available. The shop is really an auto audio shop, but a good one, and great guys. Their listening room is secondary, but does have PSB, Paradigm, JL Audio plus the Sinclair.
I plan to post elsewhere to get help finding the most well-recorded jazz double bass CD of all time, and the best-recorded jazz drum kit. Then I'll go back and compare the Sinclair to the PSBs and the Paradigms. They've let me have 5 2-3 hour listening sessions already. This time I will concentrate on their resolving power. If they can hold their own with the PSB and Paradigm, that's good enough. I think after this session I can make up my mind. |
It's not easy to find a pair of speakers with a good ribbon tweeter for $1500 even from China, let alone a floorstander.
Loose and boomy bass could easily be the amplification or room placement. How did the bass sound with the Anthem or other SS amp vs. your Marantz 8B? |
River,
My first impression with the bass was the same as yours. I think they have settled down nicely now. They sounded totally different after I put some hours on them. I have these in a second system, and the room is all hardwood floors, a couch, and one chair. No room treatments, so, I expect the room is a bit to the bright side. I have not tried them in my main system. That may be a factor, but, I don't find the bass "bloomy" or "loose". I like the resolution... For the cost. I have much better at home, but they cost much more as well.
I also sell PSB and Klipsch, to name my two top sellers. I've had B&W, ProAc, KEF, and many others over the years. I can't list all of it on here due to manufacturers restrictions.
The 460T's that I had, sold out quickly. In hindsight, I wish we had ordered more. I had a special offering for Maple, which is not usually available. Are you looking at the Maple by any chance?
I don't know what you can buy these for, but, I don't think you would be disappointed in them. I don't use them for critical listening, but, in this system, I'm very pleased.
If you want to contact me, you can email me at zydo1966 at yahoo dot com. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. Pity you live so far away from me, we could put them in my main room, and spend some time with them.
Are they audio nirvana? No. Are they a good value? I'd say yes. I'm listening to them as I type, and I'm enjoying them.
Jamie |
They are made in China. I read the "about us" statement. The usual all designed here in Canada with completely unique parts....but manufactured in CHINA.
As far as buying them goes they apppear to be big enough to support the product and nowadays $1500 is not a big gamble in the hobby. Someone has to be the first! I am a little surprised that you want to mate them to such fine vintage gear. I don't know what you can afford but a real Marantz 8B is a good amp. |
Zydo, I have two reservations. I am not sure but think the resolution is lacking, particularly in the bass. I also think the bass is loose and boomy.
What are your thoughts? What else do you sell?
I need to go compare them more seriously to the PSBs and Paradigms in the room with them.
Thanks.
|
I remember back in 1997 when a friend of mine who worked at a high end audio shop told me not to buy B&W DM602's. I listened to them and absolutely loved them for 12 years. I sold them on Agon in one day. |
fwiw I think a sensitivity of 92 is a big plus and could help pay for the speaker if you can save money on a lower powered amp.
Plus, you seem to like them.
Go ahead be our Guinea Pig and bite!
;^)
good luck |
What counts is that YOU like them, not if we do. Chances are very great indeed that none of us on these pages have ever heard these speakers, yet there are lots of comments about them. If I were you, I'd forget about those comments since its YOU who will be listening to them. I would try to listen to them with the components that you already have.. to hear if the speakers mate well with them. If you like them, enjoy them more in your own living room. |
Understand being leery of a new company. However all products start out new at some point of course. Being made in Canada and respected shops carrying them would ease my concern.
Reading the specs online would peek my interest. Making your audio choice based on following the herd logic is flawed in my book. Let your ears and eyes be the judge. You may have found a real gem. |
I'd tend to be suspicious of a comparatively complex design at that pricepoint, but your ears are the test (though not of trouble free use over time, of course).
If the Sinclairs image with the Gallo 3.5s that is very high praise, in my book, since I think the 3.5s have spooky-good imaging and sound staging (I suspect the height issue is tweakable). I think the 3.5s an outstanding value at their pricepoint; if the Sinclairs are competitive at a third of a good street price on the 3.5s, they are a stunningly good deal, IME.
Put that way, sounds a little too good to be true, eh?
John |
Here's my off the cuff shot at an analysis of the speaker (BTW, anyone here been watching Top Shot? It's a show on Netflix in which 16 marksmen/markswomen compete to see who's best at a wide variety of skills with an assortment of weapons. Very entertaining).
The price point, if accurate for that pair of speakers causes me to pause. That's supposedly a LOT of technology crammed into a speaker for that price point. Somewhow I think the quality must suffer as I don't believe it would be possible to get a great cabinet, crossover and driver set for that amount.
Now, it's made in Canada, which bodes well for it. Paradigm and PSB are also Canadian, and they are fine speakers. The Canadians have the advantage of the use of their national acoustic research center - forgot the name of it. If Sinclair has been developing their products in similar fashion it could be a sleeper, a good value.
I just bought a pair of speakers which is the only one of its kind in North America - the King's Audio King Tower. The price had to be right because of the uniqueness and thin chance of repair, and it was. You may want to call the company and speak with a rep regarding the speaker line. That may give you a feel for the people and products. It's hard to tell the true health of a company from a website, but the company looks to be large enough to sustain the product development.
Finally, another speaker which would likely compare well would be the Golden Ear Triton Towers. I have heard them and while not the last word (What is at that price point?) they are quite good. Having a similar ribbon for the top end you'd probably like them, too. The Golden Ear would plumb deeper in the bass as well, which would allow you to avoid having to get a subwoofer to get HT action or have the proper foundation for heavy rock or electronic music. |
Not famiiar with those specifically.
Tall towers with wide spaced drivers tend to work best in larger rooms with some distance to listening position for the drivers to integrate coherently. |
They seem to be marketed as the Roth Oli 50 in the UK.
The Roth Oli 50 is not well reviewed. |
Hi, thanks for the responses. Pretty good research there.
They are around $1500/pair. I'm told by the shop that two shops in Tucson have dropped Paradigm and replaced them with Sinclair. I did get to compare them to a Paradigm and a PSB but just one listen to them then the Sinclair. The soundstage went from the little area between the speakers to the entire room, location of instruments in that space was clear. The Sinclairs were much louder too, the 92db I guess. Harmonically, the Paradigms were incredibly bright, the PSB very even and laid back but kind of compressed, the Sinclair was even, mellow and warm, but with detail and lots of space. Kind of hard to compare because it's like comparing the sound when it's all sort of in a ball, to the sound of each of a lot of separate things (the instruments, singer, etc.). But the tonality seemed right. I later took in my old tube gear, and Diana Krall sounded correct on the Anthem and my MC240, but less on the husky side on the Marantz 8B. On the Anthem SS, soundstage seemed up across the wall in the room like looking at the stage in a live venue, opposed to the Gallo 3.5 I auditioned recently at Absolute Sound in Santa Fe which had an almost as wide stage but seemed between the floor and 3 or 4 feet up. Pinpointness of the Sinclair and Gallo were similar but we're talking about comparing months apart in different places. Of course the Gallo audition was with vastly superior electronics. The first time I have ever heard this, though my memory of the Gallos is fuzzy from time passage, but on the Anthem the Sinclairs absolutely, and completely, disappeared. Completely...there was just the sound stage. Many times with my eyes closed I pointed to an instrument and opening my eyes it was seldom at the speaker. The ribbon must be good because the detail was pretty amazing, esp. on cymbals. There's one cymbal strike on one of my CDs where you hear it go through a series of sounds, the soft strike on the brass, then through different high and lower frequency shimmering and wooshing (for lack of a better word) then trailing off. It's not forward in the recording but distinct. It was really clear. The bass was enormous, too big with my old tube gear which probably needs new caps to tighten the bass. But the bass goes way down and is strong. With the Anthem it was tight. The bass is forward. On Patricia Barber's Modern Cool, by far the lowest, strongest bass CD I have, the bass was forward and huge but clean with the Anthem. I plan to go back to compare with the PSB some more, but wish I could hear them with something like a McCormack or Bryston with an ARC or Audible Illusions pre to really see what kind of resolution they can do.
Anyway, I guess I'm nervous about buying a speaker that is not popular with this crowd as I trust the experience people here have with gear, and think something popular on Audiogon must be good. But for the price, I am about .00001 millimeter from pulling the trigger on these. If they are in your city, please have a listen and let me know what you think. Or if I get them I'll post some more extensive info.
Thanks for asking...
Jim |
I'm a Sinclair Dealer. Very well made, and nice looking speakers, nicer than they look in photos. I was really impressed when I opened mine. Fairly heavy, at about 75 lbs. They won't beat out a 5k pair of speakers, but, I'm enjoying mine alot at the moment. Pretty hard to beat for the price.
I'm running mine at the moment with a 300 watt Sunfire amp, Adcom GFP 750, and an Arcam DV139. They will play loud, if you want them to. Mine show no signs of distress, even when pushed far beyond where I would ever listen.
Albert, MSRP on the 460T is $1500.
Jamie |
I've seen these in a few stores here in Ontario. It was my understanding that they weren't a very high end speaker>>>just a pretty box! (I deal with a couple of extremely honest retailers who both told me that these were "mistakes" in purchasing!). I believe these were made to compete price-wise with the likes of Monitor Audio's silver series or Paradigm's products (in the $700-800 price range)
Hey, everyone's ears are different so the best judge will still be your own ears as far as I'm concerned! (I admit that I didn't bother because these aren't what I have been looking for) |
They sure are pretty and look to be high quality.
Following the link you provided it appears they are made in Montreal ?
The parent company JAM Industries is not familiar to me but they are huge, with an array of products or distribution of everything from Sirius, Korg and Marshall to iPod stations and home Hi Fi speakers.
What price range? The website did not reveal that, you have me curious. |
