Ever feel like a "low dollar" customer that your dealer doesn't think worth their time?
I'm a careful researcher for audio gear and I also understand the value of brick and mortar stores. I am not OCD and I am not an irascible haggler. Indeed, I have told my local stores that if they carry something I like, I will buy from them and not try to find it cheaper on the net. I have purchased major pieces of gear from them.
Nevertheless, one local shop is erratic in how it treats me. Emails can take a long time to get acknowledged, and often exchanges take several back-and-forths to get clear questions answered. This shop sells gear at my price point and up to 10x more (think Wilson speakers, $7k power cords). I often feel I'm more like a fly buzzing around their heads than a valued customer trying to establish a customer-dealer relationship. I am trying to be loyal, but it makes me want to shop online. I could be reading the situation wrong, but this is definitely a pattern.
Has anyone else had the sense that they were too much of a "low dollar" customer to be worth the dealer's time?
When I worked High end audio or audio at all, I always fully entertained those who had not the cash. Even the teen kids. No problem.
They’ll be back, if you treat people right. One must always look good in their minds. They all eventually find themselves in the ’I know this guy, this great guy who knows some stuff’ mode, and they come to you.
This is the way it should be. Sadly, not often is.
@bomd, I too have found Echo to be cool. I had been at the old location, and recently accompanied a friend of mine to the new store in Beaverton when he went there to get a new belt for his Pro-Ject turntable. Though it was only a (iirc) $20 sale, they treated him as if he was a valued customer.
Their demo rooms were well treated acoustically, unlike the NW shop you mentioned. In that shop I heard the worst demo I've ever experienced, of the excellent Magnepan 30.7 (the first stop on Wendell Diller's North American tour), which should have sounded great but didn't in the shop's atrociously bad room. It was like a cement bunker, with no wall treatment.
Kurt put a lot of thought and money into the listening room at the new place and is justifiably proud of it. The downtown location was a little more convenient for me coming from out of town, but I really like what he's done with the new space.
OK you may think I'm a snob, and that's fine with me. I love music- all kinds just about. But I am a Gear-Head as well. I found the "snob-shop" in town which carried B&W and WILSON (and even some Goldmund). I wanted B&W 801 Matrix speakers ($5,000) so badly, but didn't have the nerve at first to spend that kind of money. But the more I thought about it and their crystal clarity (over what I had) and bass down to 20Hz with the bass-alignment filter, and took the plunge. Then of course (as predicted) nothing that fed them was any good, so piece by piece I started upgrading. The day I came home with a Goldmund DAC (over $3K) sweet music began pouring out of my speakers. But now I needed a good transport, and then instead of a Hafler Amp I bought a used Levinson 23.5. I was spending a whole bunch of money, but I got to audition everything and take my time between purchases. A Rowland demo preamp, better interconnects, a better turntable and cartridge, etc. and I was finally getting CD's (the evil culprit to all of the problems with the digital revolution) started to sound more like vinyl all the time. Fast forward many years later I was growing unhappy with the 801's when I heard Eggleston Andras that appeared at snob-central. I was blown away and got the floor demo. We're talking $14K for speakers and I matched them up with Levinson 33H mono blocks. But my point here is not to brag, but if "I" can hear a huge difference in what a component is able to do (especially with classical music), I take as much time as I need to get the money and then I just go out and get it. Lately I have not gotten anything new for some time, but I still collect new music just like always. But I am into gear, end of story. Performance counts, and some stores have amazing systems if you're polite and buy an album and talk like you know something about what they sell, it goes a long way. People that come over might ask me how many watts my speakers have, and I tell them that they're designed to let you hear more of what's in the recording. If that's not a sufficient answer, then it's just too bad- I'm a snob and that's all the answer they're going to get. But if they show they understand, then I will spend time to explain further about how my system is configured. I always end with the fact that I love Led Zeppelin, too (I really do!). But these days Vivaldi really brings a smile to my face.
When I opened my shop in 1974, I learned two things VERY QUICKLY:
1. NEVER ask a customer what he or she does for a living.
2. NEVER judge a customer by his or her appearance.
Made a LOT of money by following these two rules. In those days in South Florida, cash was flowing by the tens of millions--you can check out the history of the area to learn why--and I had LOTS of it flow through my shop. Suitcases brought in by young people wearing cut-offs and nothing else were normal.
(We were the "high-end" shop of the area--Audio Research, Magnepan, Sequerra, Mac, Tandberg, Stellavox, Nakamichi, Linn, B&O, etc. We made some stands and woofer cabs for the Levinson HQD system but his stuff sounded terrible, so we did not carry it.)
Quick story--one of my best-ever (wealthiest) customers lived in a double lower penthouse (only gauche people buy the actual penthouse as it has roof issues as well as plenty of social silliness associated with it), and he had WALLS of museum-level art and a wife who was the twin of Mary Tyler Moore. His business--he made lapel pins and paperweights. More wealth than many of my big-name Palm Beach and Miami Beach customers.
Most interesting--young man who bought a bunch of stuff lived on Hillsboro Mile--look it up--and his dad sold oil well derricks. Who goes to school to learn to sell oil well derricks?
The last time I went to a Dealer was twelve years ago. I had just made an $8000 profit on the sale of some big office copiers and decided to drop it all on a new pair of speakers. I walked into the dealer all happy and a salesman with a thick eastern european accent asks me "How much you make per year ? " . Needless to say i walked out.
@rushfan21, apologies if you didn't appreciate my contribution, however, the subject was not audio, but how one was treated. So I added my contribution to let some know that for you it is rare, but sometimes (in the past) often at some audio stores, but for some of us on a daily basis, this is standard.
Also, my contribution was to discuss how I treated the rude person in order to continue on the path I was on when I walked into the store.
I appreciate this thread very much. I've haunted stereo stores since around 1975, and I've certainly experienced my share of places that are unwelcoming. Luckily, I found a store owner in New Haven, CT, who was open and generous, I stuck with him for thirty years even though I moved five hours away.
What I find especially strange is that there's almost nothing to do in high-end stores unless you're being helped. It's not like a furniture store where you can try the different couches, or even Best Buy where you can fool around with the electronics. I don't feel comfortable moving speakers or cables, connecting speakers to different amplifiers, putting on my own music, or messing around with the gear without permission/encouragement. I had this experience at a New Hampshire store earlier this year; I spent at least half an hour wandering around, I even made a couple friendly remarks to the men working there, but no one welcomed me or offered to help, even though as far I could tell it was a very quiet weekday afternoon with no customers in the place. I would say that I was studiously ignored. After a while I left; needless to say, no one said a word as I walked out. It's a pity; I guess I take Harbeths off my list?? Or cut my ponytail? (I should say that the owner of the store wasn't there. He has a good reputation and I don't mean to impugn the store. And, yes, I had emailed with him before I drove down.)
As others have said, it's a weird experience to be ignored or slighted, especially when one is ready to spend $10k or more.
There is a local chain here in Northern CA that use to be one of "the" places to go 25 years ago. The owners i use to know well are no longer around, hiding in back warehouses somewhere replaced by 2-3 salesmen up front you don’t recognize and none recognize you or care to. All three salesman sitting behind the counter, looking at their computers with nobody else in the store. Big fancy showroom place with four different dedicated audio rooms - lots of overhead too! Lots of fancy lights on, systems powered on, - idling and playing for nobody, burning energy. Somebody gets to pay for all that, how nice.
So, as i walk in, all three guys are heads down behind the counter, I’m thinking... Hmm, what are they looking at, ugh.. maybe a pile of orders coming in - NOT! Something super important I guess, and it takes all THREE of them to figure it out, whatever it is, um, no. Surfing the internet, yes! Must be super interesting, whatever it is :)
Now with a pandemic, no more surfing at a fancy showroom - now the playing fields are equal, store closed - it’s all about "productivity" and results and who sells products online...can’t blame walk-in customers or lack thereof any more. Retail may be changed forever now. Only those who produce will survive as manufacturers and distributors venture more to online sales, more so every year now.
I was there to check out the newer McIntosh MA-252 tube hybrid den room amp for a friend who asked me what I thought.... As I’m walking in, dressed in work close on and all - got a quick look up and glance, told them what I was looking at, and not one of them got up out of their chair to even walk over and show anything. Lazy pr$%s! I browsed each room quickly having not been there for a while... headed for the door, one of them tried to say something as my hand was on the door handle and I just said no thanks - keep surfing and walked out.
Shared back to my buddy I’d never buy an amp or any gear there any more, customer service was crap and nimrod sales people can’t get their faces out of their phones and off their screens any more - rather order from a hungry sales person online or pay an eager BestBuy/Magnolia guy and tip him to just order it instead. They can order McIntosh, let ’em at it. Can’t imagine this other old store will last too many more years with high prices paying too much overhead for 3 sales people who rather surf the internet.
Must be nice to get paid to surf the internet not helping customers. Decided not to tell the owners, if they are so rich to pay people to surf the internet and not do spot checks on their new generation absolutely useless sales staff - wish them all the best of luck.
Sure appreciate the happy hungry hard working sales people of prior generations. Many I knew long ago all went on to do bigger and better things in life and they all earned it :)
It's not an audio gear story, but this happened to me a couple of cars ago when I was car shopping.
I had been driving a BMW 328i convertible for almost 4 years and had been saving up for my next new car. The 328i was ordered and my plan was to order another car.
Put it for sale on the posting board at work thinking it would take me a month or two to sell... oops... sold it in one day!
Had to have the new owner drop me off at Hertz after work and I ended up renting a Mazda 3. That weekend, I drove it up to the Mercedes dealer and asked to test drive a C63 AMG. They wouldn't even show me one - maybe I shouldn't have parked the Mazda by their front door, ha ha. Told them that I have cash ON HAND and was ready to buy, but I didn't get anywhere with them. Instead, they kept on showing me overpriced used cars that appeared to have been waxed using sand paper - swirl marks on black metallic paint galore.
Ended up going to BMW and got an order for an E92 M3 hammered out in an hour. Got to drive my rented "M3" until the real one arrived.
That was 2 cars ago... still miss the redline on that V8!
Give it up folks! Retail Hifi is dead as a doornail and now the virus has sealed the coffin. IMCE nothing affects a retail sales floor like lack of traffic/business. Once depression really catches hold, it can spread rapidly. When a salesperson realizes--no matter how diligent s/he is in doing the job--that s/he has little chance of making the rent this month, things change. Customers who don’t buy become thieves swiping your expertise and your demonstrations in order to buy elsewhere--especially online. We are stuck in a frustrating liminal era in which the unknown far outweighs the future knowns. We are the ones who will preserve our hobby/business by spearheading a new structure for the preservation of great sound. 1. Make evaluations based upon multiple inputs: youTube, Stereophile, Absolute Sound, Audiogon, etc., etc. 2. Gather in groups to share gear when possible. 3. Acquire the 2 or 3 likeliest choices for audition of 2 to 4 weeks. 4. Buy with much more assurance than if you had heard the equipment in some retail store with who knows what kind of help. Believe me, the guidance you will get in well-managed stores has as much to do with what’s in stock and its gross margin as it does with satisfying your needs or desires. Oh, one other thing: audio salespeople are not there to entertainyou. They’re there to do business and you can hardly blame them if they ask you for an order before you split.
Believe me, the guidance you will get in well-managed stores has as much to do with what’s in stock and its gross margin as it does with satisfying your needs or desires. Oh, one other thing: audio salespeople are not there to entertainyou. They’re there to do business and you can hardly blame them if they ask you for an order before you split.
So true. It is a tough business to be in and probably only for those with a real passion for the hobby.
I look for many manufacturers to jump on the direct sales bandwagon. We should all pay attention to Paul Barton's interesting business model out here high in the Rocky Mountains. He's got no local shops, factory direct, and a generous trade-in policy linked to The Music Room--where, IMCE they make a really slick presentation and even a newly constructed SHOWROOM. In addition, PSAudio is nearby with more show-and-tell. Maybe I'm too old and idealistic but I think this plan will work really well if they can ever get a handle on realistic pricing for used gear. I'm really not sure we should expect to continue paying 1/2 off MSRP for stuff that's really getting kinda old--though working fine at sale. Admittedly, the market, and "late stage capitalism" will eventually impose its will but I'm afraid a lot of us old timers won't make it past the mountaintop. It will be a while before audiophiles will appreciate any price benefit from this process of "cancelling" a very large part of the audio industry. Sad to think of how many of we AGrs have depended on retail audio for much or all of our lives.
@denverfred Now you've triggered an Agon discussion about whether it's worth paying more for an expensive, boutique "brain fuse" from an American maker or whether Chinese brain fuses are good enough. Not to mention whether said brain fuses can be tested in a double-blind A/B way and whether measurement is even up to the challenge. Buckle in.
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