Is there are anyone out there who has compared the Esoteric DV-50 to a number of dedicated red book only players (or other universal's) and found one that is SIGNIFICANTLY better?
I stress significantly because in my humble opinion the redbook playback (if comparison unit is just a cd cd player only )must be significantly better to justify losing DVD-A, SACD and DVD-Video capability.
I keep hearing there are better one box solutions and being a die hard 2 channel fan I would sell my DV-50 if I found a player in the same price range that sounds significantly better. But every time I do an AB comparision to other well respected units the DV-50 has slayed each and every one.
So far, it has eaten the lunch of the Classe CDP-10, Ayre CX-7, Linn Ikemi, Cairn Fog Vers. 2, Cary 306/300, Arcam DV 27A and CD 33T, Myryad CD 600, etc. It even betters a Sony SCD 777ES/MF Tri-Vista 21 transport/dac combo that I previously owned. I'm only comparing the DV-50 to single box cd or universal players, but I just wanted to mention the Sony/MF combo. I'm sure there are some dac/transport combo's that will handily beat the DV 50.
Some may say that the DV 50 should beat all the above because the of price point ($5,500 vs. average price of $3,000 for the above players). But I disagree since conventional wisdom says that stand alone players (especially with the pedigree of those mentioned above) should produce better redbook than a universal player trying to be a jack of all trades. Only the DV 27A does video plus audio. By the way, I was very impressed with the 27A as just a cd player. Of all the above I would say the Ayre was the best.
Next on my list is the Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP and the Resolution Audio Opus 21. However, I must tell you I am really impressed with the DV 50 and all the great reviews are absolutely true. I've noticed that many people who are using it or comparing to other players are using the RCA analog outs instead of the balanced outs. There is a significant improvement in sound if you use the balanced outs and I'm only interested in hearing comments from people who have compared it against other players using the balanced outs on the DV-50.
My system components are as follows:
B&W N803's speakers & HTM-1 center Cary Cinema 5 (5 x 200) amp Anthem D1 Statement pre/pro Esoteric DV 50 Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker wire Nirvana SX balanced interconnects from DV-50 to Anthem Acoustic Zen Matrix reference II interconnects from D1 to Cary No after market power cords or isolation equipment
My system sounds great! Those who comment please make sure to specify what specific improvements you heard over the DV 50 and what cdp were you comparing it against.
Eldon,In my case.I was excited,when I saw AVguru and 711 got together, to my surprise they both live here in Illinois,I beg them to invite me,this is not prearrange to manipulate the outcome 100 percent.AVguru and I decided to tell the truth, to give some information to audiophile who are looking for CDP.You can email 1markr and Dolfan because of this thread Dolfan is very happy and 1Markr got the chance to borrow mine for 2 days, and I got a chance to meet Him a very nice guy with a very good system.I guarantee you AVguru is so unbias even Mark,711 states that He likes the SonyModwright and was blown away, but He thinks there is no black background, both AV and I, disagree.I also guarantee you.Iam not on Dan payroll,the guy wont even give me discount.You think with the hours I drove and spent on this shootout, Iam at least entitled a discount. But I made it clear to Dan,the CDP he mod for me is more than enough.I dont think Dan can afford to pay He doesnt charge enough. Eldon, If indeed your CDPmod will show up, it will get a fair review also.Trust me, email me I will tell you more.Let me tell you, Iam always careful not to destroy people livelihood.I take no offense. Enjoy the music.
I take great exception to your comments that this post is run by "Alex supporters" and that your products wouldn't be given a fair accounting via a shoot-out. You are making unfounded assumptions and short changing the integrity, intelligence and intentions of everyone involved in this thread.
While it is true that there are a few people who have been more vocal than others in supporting and promoting Alex's products, those few do not represent the majority of A-goners contributing to this thread. I receive many e-mails every week from people who are asking about different mod's and searching for information. I have referred some of them to you, as well as Underwood Wally in Georgia, Great Northern in Minnesota, Dan Wright in Seattle and a host of others that I'm aware of.
Richard, I just ran a post today addressing my concerns about the direction of this thread and asking those contributing to adhere to new rules. Did you not read it? Are you saying that I was being disengenuous when I made my comments?
Furthermore, I publicly stated in my comments that I planned on contacting you tomorrow and asking for more information about your mod's as well as possibly asking you to send me one of your units for audition purposes.
Richard, right now you are not making a very good case for anyone to want to do business with you or try your product. This is your chance to shine and show us what a great product you make. Before I started this thread I was biased against the mod industry in general. I felt it was a rip-off to pay someone to take a mid-fi unit, mod it and expect that it could match or beat the performance the performance of a high end player from an established manufacturer. I beleive a lot of people on this thread felt that way.
If you'd bother to read the entire thread you would know that the general consensus now is modded units offer outstanding performance and offer a better value than most if not all the established players. We have determined that mods from Exemplar, APL and Modwright sound better than the Esoteric UX1 which retails for $13,000. Other units that have been bested by the modded players include Electrocompanient 1 UP, Ayre CX-7, Classe CDP-10 and the Arcam CD 33T.
Richard, this is your time to shine. It is high time that modders get their just due and recognition for making some of the finest, most musical cdp's on the market. I don't know of any other thread on Audiogon which has taken the time to do such extensive comparisions between modded units and mfg'ers.
Yet, instead of embracing this thread or at least trying to take advantage of the opportunity to provide information about your products, you come in ranting and raving and making "assumptions" about all the participants and accusations about our integrity and whose getting paid off by Alex. I can tell you that Alex has not paid me ANYTHING to post favorable comments about his product. And I'm the person that has written most of the detailed reviews on this thread!
Richard, you are making yourself look very bad on a national stage. You come across as a jealous, bitter person who is mad that someone else is getting an unfair advantage and special treatment. But that is not the case. And despite the unfavorable initial impression you have made on most of the participants on this thread I am still open to including your unit in our upcomming shoot-out and write a subsequent review.
If you'd like to discuss this opportunity in more detail please contact me via my A-gon e-mail and we can talk. However, I am kindly asking you not to post any more comments on this thread if your intent is to continue attacking 711 and others who you perceive to be biased. We are trying to maintain a constructive and positive forum that will help audiophiles make informed decisions!
Avguru, as Moderator of this thread, let me ask you a fundamental question: Is it acceptable for Richard Kern to post a statement that basically accuses those who have liked and tout the APL mods as being shills and have, in effect, being bribed to tout for him by discounts in return for favorable posts? I may be a stickler and old-fashioned, but let me tell you: (1)If I had been one of those claiming to like/prefer/admire APL mods, I would file a libel/defamation suit for character assassination against Richard in a heartbeat; (2) He did so after you asked for decorum and no ad-hominems; (3) A blanket "told by inside industry sources" is hardly proof, poor inuendo and a discredit to him; (4) If his accusations are true, and how can I know what he really knows as facts, I urge you to pursue this to the fullest, viz. his assertion that APL touts have been given any special dispensation to support his products; if you discover this, they disclose this immediately or be ejected from the forum and A'gon. It is now morally and, possibly legally, imperative for Richard Kern to substantiate those accusations. If I was Smilin711, Kern would be subpoened already. (5) It is totally unacceptable and against every tenet that A'gon stands for, to have as successful thread as this besmirched by accusations of blatant dishonesty against posters by a competitor unless he is prepared to back up his statements with full details. (6)I dont own, nor have heard an APL mod, but intend to hear for myself in my own home, how it sounds against the full Meitner DCC2/CDSD combo and have communicated with Alex regarding specs, price, etc, at length. Our e-mails can be made public. The price was as quoted everywhere on this forum, in fact, higher, because I am interested in balanced outputs, no quid pro quo was mentioned or even hinted at, nor was writing about the product anywhere and the correspondence was as professional as befits any 2 individuals, one buying and one selling; (7) I have always detested blanket accusations of dishonesty against posters simply because they espouse a product; however, not everybody is 100% honest, every idiot knows that, but the likelihood of groups of crooks rather than individual bad apples, strains the common sense and decency of normal, honest A'goners, who are not intellectually challenged or so street-dumb as to be misled by obvious deceipt. (8) I have never met Smilin711, Alex nor Richard Kern, so am not vouching/implying anything about any of their character traits; (9) What I am saying, however, is that it is unacceptable to not only imply, but to state that the APL fans are on the take: Dishonest;Crooks;Scoundrels - is not only offensive, but probably actionable. (10)If and when I get my APL3910 and, after comparing it to the full EMM gear, if the otcome is favorable to APL, and I publish it, and Kern accuses me of being a pimp, we will go to court, me with my e-mails to and from Alex and my cancelled check. Count on it. Avguru, you have done an outstanding job so far. Now fix this.
I didn't realize that in your last post you were just responding to yet another attack on both yourself and this thread by Eldon. I have addressed his comments in an appropriate manner for all to see.
What a shame!Maybe i am of simple mind(i am)but this thread was really fun and exciting at one time.There was a time when i looked forward each day to see it.I just think that some people can't(or won't)let other's enjoy themselves!I personaly find the comments by the other modders difficult to understand.Why did'nt they just join in and help keep it fun!!!Their expertise would have been WELCOMED!Kevin
Eldon, Sweet deals from Alex? I'd like to know your "inside" sources. Where was the supposed sweet deal when I was ordering the 3910 last month? I must have missed his sweet deal. In fact I got nothing, zero discount from Alex. The only "deal" he gave me was that if I didn't like his 3910, he would refund me 100%. That's letting his work do the talking and I am 100% happy with it.
I am disturbed by the recent rancor on this thread. I assume we all have the same overriding purpose: to get the best sound we can for our money. I do realize that there are a few posters whose livelihood is potentially affected by what is said here. Nonetheless, the anger and personal nature of some of the posts here surprises and saddens me.
AVGURU and all,, my apologies for my last post. It was clearly untimely and unnecessary. I had just missed Charles's much broader, comprehensive, and equanimously worded point of order. I will herewith make a valiant attempt to refrain from starting or intervening on any such metadiscussions any further.
Avguru, One suggestion. Rick Kern does a $300 mod on DV-50's which affects mostly the multichannel board and the power supply. You might want to have him do this given your enjoyment of multichannel sound. I posted this info on two posts early on on this thread but the posts have mysteriously been removed. I have a Rick Kern modded player which I am quite happy with; unfortunately, I never heard it prior to the mods, so if you go this route let us know the difference in sound (same goes for anyone else who has had this mod). It might be a kind of kiss-and-make up for the dirty laundry trashing that has been going on lately in what has otherwise been a wonderfully exciting (awaiting shoutout results) and informative.
On another note, I am curious about the extent to which an interconnect or other tweaks can make up for the sins of the cdp. I mention this because of the enourmous difference in sound the DV-50 is capable of given the right interconnect and tweak. I finally ended up with a HMS Gran Finale II interconnect (with PCs as well) with bybee slipstream filters added to both ends and a Z-Squared Ultra sleeve. The difference between that and my former Cardas Golden Reference RCA interconnects was nothing short of breathtaking (bigger soundstage, significantly better blackness, elimination of all listening fatigue, extension of sound an octave in both directions, clear and pinpoint separation of instruments, etc). I had an entirely new system in effect. I realize that this is all very system dependent but it made me aware of the potential of DV-50 with the appropriate tweaks. Perhaps some cdps do all of this internally and don't require the external tweaks. If that is the case, then one could meaningfully talk about the "potential" sound of a player given some additional tweaking (there are other DV-50 tweak others have commented on in various threads). Hope this makes sense and I hope this thread keeps going since I enjoy reading it every day.
Would you mind posting when your next shoot out is, what's up for audition, and what you've discovered thus far? Also, it would be helpful for the others who were present to post their impressions as well. I thought I saw one such summary early on in the thread. Perhaps another one now would get the momentum of this conversation moving again in its intended direction. Enjoy the listening! Howard
Avguru, I'll have a look for some comments on AG about the SA-11. I came close to buying one just about the time I found this thread which steered me in another direction. Also, and I'd like your comments if you have any, it was about the time I heard the Marantz 9500 up against the Unidisc 2.1. The 2.1 blew it away, but at more than double the price. So, at that point I was wrestling with the idea of doubling my budget for a player unless I could get closer to the Linn sound at less money. I thought the SA-11 might be the ticket to that. I'll be curious to know how your current audition involving the SA-14V2 goes. Do you have any experience with the Linn 2.1 or 1.1? ...and please, if you get a chance to to a shoot out that involves the Modwright and the X01 I'd love to know the result!
Jayctoy It's largely from your comments that I ordered the Modwright 999. What a great machine! What do you find warm up time to be like with your 9000? Now that my 999 has been playing discs almost non stop for a little over a week, it is ounding truely marvelous. One problem in my system is that my ARC preamp takes a long time to warm up and settle down. I keep it on all the time, but a few days ago, we had a power outage that lasted about three hours. It took three days or so for the preamp to get back to sounding holographic with the CDP. I'm wondering how much of that was due to the CDP. It tempts me to look at solid state preamps, but it will take a very special one to get me to leave tubes. As for Dan, I think he appreciates the mentions he's gotten on this thread. I personally feel he could charge double or more for the current Sony mod and it would be worth the money. BTW, did you get the upgraded power cord to connect the outboard power supply with the transport? It's a nice piece of work, but I never had the earlier one so I can't really compare. I'm currently using an Audience cable on the transport, but I have a piece of Cardas Gold Reference I want to play with to see what happens.
I wish this thread is available when, I am looking for a good cdp, the only source I have is Positive feedback, I read Eldon SCD1 mod reviewed by Mr Robinson. The review is very impressive, the only reason, I did not contact Eldon is because I cant afford it.Then while reading some post at Audiocircle, this guy name Paul Bui, is describing the sony9000es so musical, and how good it is.I contacted Him and believe me,we talked for 2 hours.Because our accent interfere in our conversation I believe this thread would help many agoners,to save money, time,phone bills,in my case I met good friends. Thats good enough for me. Lets enjoy it.AND LETS MOVE ON, LETS ALL FORGIVE ONE ONOTHER.
AVGURU, chill baby, yaknow we are just in this for the journey, and learning. BTW, I talked to Dan today about my new 3910, he is not shipping from CES, he is gonna do some additional work on it 1st. I think I will ask for a volume control too. This should be real interesting, especially for you, since you said, so far, the modwright sound is your preference. Now you and Jayctoy, along with others will be able to hear Modwrights latest, and greatest mod.
I hope you understand, I do not post harshly for nothing, my friend, thanks for realizing I was being attacked.
BTW, when are U gonna take a plunge for some better sonics?
Like alot of folks I have been on the sidelines reading this thread and a few things occured to me that I find interesting. First is the love or passion that some of you have for Alex's work (not you 711:) ). There is a double edge to this passion and it will trigger jealosy from others since one person is getting all the attention on this thread. From my chair this is perfectly understandable. Secondly, I feel that modders and I mean all of them including Richard Kearn, Dan Wright, Allen Wright, John Tucker, Kyle and Rick should be applauded for their efforts in making this hobby exciting again. I don't know what would have happend if Philips and Sony never introduced their SACD players but its these gentleman that I respect that are moving all us into another dimension. I for one am grateful.
Does it really matter if you think about it who has the best sound? If you compared the cost each modder has something to offer each of us at a price point. Do I care which unit is in my system? Yes and no. What is relevant here is does it sound better than what I have?
Reading some of your past posts I see you like the Ayre CX-7. I agree with you on the bass which truely is amazing. Have you or any others auditioned Ayre's new universal player? They do not even list it on their website yet I have heard through the grapevine that it is now being shipped to dealers.
It looks like we're back in business again! The thread was temporarily closed down. Why, I don't know (I didn't request it)but my guess is the last post from Springbok10 or a direct complaint from Kern may have caused Audiogon to become concerned. A-gon certainly doesn't want to be in the middle of any legal squabble between members.
Springbok10, I understand your frustration and most of what you said was very valid. But as I told everyone earlier, we just have to tone down the rhetoric and stick to the original intent of this thread. Keep personal feelings about others out of it. This thread is too valuable for all involved (and we're too close to our ultimate shoot-out)to jeopardize the use of it because of personal vendetta's.
Apparently this thread has taken on a life of its own ;). I have not had nor taken the time to read all of it, but I gather that things got ugly at one point.
Regardless of all of that, I just wanted to clarify and update information about our Denon mods as I have not been very good about releasing information. We have just honestly been buried and I have been finallizing the mods.
We did take a solid-state modified and a tube-modified Denon 3910 to CES and we auctioned the tube unit. I believe that 'Smilin' won the auction.
I do not foresee us offering a volume control on this unit at this time, remote or otherwise. Unlike the Crystal chip, the Burr Brown chips do not have an on-board volume control (I don't believe) and I don't have a good R/C solution for adding a volume control otherwise.
Our Solid-State mod is NOT just a parts upgrade and op-amp swap, but rather is a re-designed analog stage. It is quite good and offers an option for those who are not tube-inclined, for Class A performance.
The tube mod will likely ultimately have an outboard power supply. I have built the first unit with internal supply, but am not satisfied with the installation due to the weight of the 'iron' used and the strength of the chassis. I also believe that getting the high-voltage supply outside of the chassis is superior sonically. We are using toroidal transformers, so EMI fields are not so much the issue, but there are other limitations here in my opinion.
I will be finallizing the CES unit for 'Smilin' and I am sure that he will post his impressions.
For the record, I hope that we all remember that this is about the music and bettering our enjoyment of it. Alex, John, Allen, Richard and I all do good work and have taken different approaches to the ultimate goal of superior music reproduction.
dammit - i've been trying not to chime in on this thread, but here i go.
it's no secret that i feel that these shootouts are generally worthless and that mob mentality it strongly at play in these sessions. i've stated it elsewhere, made my points, and still feel that way.
the reason i'm posting now is because i do feel that alex is being attacked a bit here. i don't know alex like the other modders might, but let me state for the record my experiences with him:
he's answered every single one of my emails to him, which i'd gladly post here. all of my questions have been general information-type emails concerning my busted EMM Labs modified SACD-1000. yes, he's tried to pitch me on his stuff, but i can *not* blame him. he's a businessman and he's taking time out from his schedule to answer my idiotic questions, so i fully expect him to recommend his stuff. the professionalism he's shown in helping me with my problems has been fantastic.
while we're on the SACD-1000, let's not forget that it was alex who was first able to isolate and repair the defective parts. he worked with Andreas from EMMLabs and a guy with philips, if i understand it correctly to get the problem solved. granted, this was in his best interest because he can charge epople to fix them, but the fact remains that even after philips stopped supporting their own product, he continued to work on them.
lastly, i feel i should divulge that i have just entered into a business deal with him, at full price i might add - to repair and mod my meitnerized SACD-1000 that has a faulty MACE chip. were it not for his dilligence, i'd not e able to enjoy my EMM gear without shelling out the 7k for a CDSD.
i haven't heard his mods and i don't imagine i will hear any of his modded players for a long while, as i don't know anybody in san antonio with one - but i think that if he's gonna get accused and trashed in this thread, i should at least point out my experiences with him.
i'm not implying that he's a saint or that we need to start erecting statues, but i do feel that these attacks are unfair.
and before anybody asks - this is completely unsolicited, blah, blah, blah. i do value my integrity (because god knows i'm short on dignity) and a quick search of my posts i would hope would show this.
also, i feel i should add that when i first started having problems with my phillips, i sent emails out to all of the popular modders on this board. not all of them even bothered to reply, including one who i have seen attack alex on other boards.
i may not know much about modding, but i do understand customer service, being a business owner myself.
again, bottom line: don't believe what you see, hear, read, etc - figure it out for yourself. it's the only way you can be sure.
Thank you all for the support, I appreciate it! I heard some nice setups at the show and must say that all have done great job designing and/or modifying variety of audio equipmnet. I was impressed by Esoteric, EMM and Gryphon rooms. May be the best experience was to see all the nice people I've previously met online to "materialize" at the show - it was great!
I did not have access to email and internet for most of the time so I am sorry I could not answer questions on the board and emails. I was informed about some of the posts here though. I am sorry to see that it got sort of "ugly" here in this thread.
I must say that "mine is best" mentality goes around with just about every designer and/or modifier. It is passion. Of course, I believe that we all can still be friends, keep the good relations and respect. My experiences with Dan, John and Allen were always really nice. They are all great people and very tallented. I wish this is the case with all other designers/modders in the industry.
For those who do not realize it, let me clear up the clouds regarding my "mods" based on the Denon 3910; Although it still remains in the Denon enclosure, this universal player has been completely re-designed. The power supply, Master Clock, DAC and Analog stage are of our own design. The above combination can work with ANY available Digital transport/DSP in the World - Sony, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Toshiba, Teac, Philips, you name it. It is just a matter of time when we will design a nice enclosure and will put everything in it. With all due respect to all modders in the world, I must say that our 3910 is not a "modded" machine; it is simply APL Hi-Fi Uiversal Digital Player.
Here here Alex! I was wondering when you were going to make that declaration. As I stated before, I am not that fond of investing part of my money into a Denon player.
Don't get me wrong but my point is I would rather have your player and not Denon's running around with your mods inside. Like I said before, I don't think you will have a problem raising the investors. Some of them are on this thread. Keep up the good work and for god's sake get some help!
Lazarus 28. Alex has fixed/modded 2 EMM/Philips for me. You're going to love the sound with his power supply mods. You'll have more body without loseing any of the detail. More musical to my ears. Alex told me the new furore chip will take 200 hours to break in. It sounded great after 200 but sounded better after 300. Frank
frankg - thanks, i'm looking forward to it, but i'm sincerely hoping that it doesn't alter the sound too much, because i've never been so happy with a source in my life! i can't imagine the mods making too much of a difference since he's only touching the transport, though, and not the dac.
ahh - i can't wait to be able to play avalon in multichannel again!
Lazarus28. Yes they stay fixed when Alex does the work. The replacement chips he uses are a revised version with a different part number. Chip relaibility is no longer an issue. I've had others claim that they've had their chips replaced (by someone else) but it's the original production furore chip. EMM did have replacement mace chips at one time but as far as I know only Alex has the replacement furore chip. Frank
I have watched this with much interest and must now respond to what i see as an outrageous accusation from Eldon . Unless he can provide specific examples of Alex giving sweetheart deals to his flock of supporters then his comments are insulting and incorrect. I am one of his supporters and have one of his incredible units and another on the way .I have been unashamed to flaunt my enthusiasm right here on this site myself.As proof of my enthgusiasm , i am running his 4000.00 player on about 120.000.00 worth of electronics and speakers. I could afford any unit i want quite frankly and have found his player offers incredible performance at a fraction of the cost of the competition . I can attest that the units he is producing have bettered my Marantz sa 1 , Bat vkd 5 se and Cal 2500 and is on par with my Meridian g98 if not better. I pay what he states on his website and Alex has never asked me a single time to give web support of any kind in the 20 plus conversations we have shared.He is in fact an honorable man that is trying desperately to make it in this country as an entrepreneur. Unless you can prove this outrageous claim of shilling , keep your negative comments to yourself.Or better yet , cough up the cash for one yourself and see what all the fuss is all about. Im sure you can work out a sweetheart deal if you try hard enough... please.
brainwater - just checked out your system and all the pics and i have a question:
can i move in? pretty please? you won't even notice i'm there, i swear. i'll even bring my own equipment so you'll have another system to mess around with.
seriously, dude - your house and yard are gorgeous!
Comments appreciated lazarus28. Come on down , I could use a friendly audio buddy to talk to in this world of bitter confrontationalists. Steve , you are too much!
PSCIALLI, you may want to relate to the thread your recent interesting experience with the Sony ModWright after you realized that your power cabling topology was. . . suboptimal. Thanks, Guido
The Reimyo 777 I briefly got to hear but the 3910 was not broken in yet. Another comparison will be done as soon as I do a valid a- b . I have met a fellow AG member and he has one and said we could do something soon . Stay tuned.
Love my Exemplar modded 2900 but need to sell it (see my ad if you are interested). As soon as I am able I will not hesitate to by a modded CDP. It is definitely the way to go to get the best sound at a fraction of the cost of the big money gear.
I listened to the APL 3910 at CES and talked extensively with Alex. One thing is certain, Alex thinks his unit is superior to the Exemplar. After listening to it at CES, I certainly am not prepared to agree. No amount of salesmanship can overcome my need to hear it myself, and hopefully soon I will have that chance.
As a political science professor, I fully expect politics to be involved everywhere, although I might prefer it not to be. I have heard many stories involving this shootout, none of which I can substantiate, but all of this does not matter to me as I will not believe a comparison unless I am there, and as was the case a VSAC, often not even then if the venue is not suitable as was the case there.
I am still struck that a poster can also serve as a moderator, although I think avguru has been open, although perhaps with too much vanity showing.
Uh oh guys seems like there's a new universal coming from Accustic Arts called the Surround 1, that's supposed to be killer. According to a source it's better than the Esoterics and $4K cheaper. Might be an interesting contender in a shootout.
Somebody had to step in and take control of a thread that was clearly getting out of hand. Anybody could have done it but no one else wanted to. I was receiving e-mails from other posters asking me to do something. Although it has lessened to a great degree, people are still taking "pot shots" and making personal remarks against others even though I've asked everyone not to do so.
For example, look at your comment..why is it necessary for you to criticize me for labeling myself the moderator? What purpose does that serve? I made my comments (and my self imposed title) over two weeks ago and yet you're still talking about it? Why?
If trying to restore order to a thread and making commentators show respect for each other is vain then I gladly wear that label. If I have to call myself the moderator in order to accomplish that then again I will gladly take your criticism. If I have to enlist the help of A-gon staff to temper the rhetoric on this thread then I will do that also.
When I made my comments I stated then there would be those who wouldn't be happy with what I had to say. And I also strongly suggested that those who weren't had every right to leave this thread and start their own. That option is also available to you.
In looking through the history of your posts on this thread it does seem that I incorrectly attributed the "shootouts are useless" comment to you when in fact it was Tbg who said it. My apologies.
However, I do not apologize for my efforts to restore order and focus to this thread. I will continue with those efforts until this thread comes to fruition.
Dbld, I was told that it betters the UX1 and X01. As for availability, there were only two demos at CES 2005 and those were sold on the spot. Please understand that I am telling this information as it was told to me by a dealer who sells both Esoteric and Accustic Art gear.
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