I agree with Schubert. Maybe $3K speakers.
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Audiotroy , when I listen to them at Axpona they are well balance sounding speakers, clarity, soundstage are exceptional, I did not hear hollow midrange, maybe the Audioquest cabling did match well producing solid beautiful midrange, and the vocals are amazing as well, if I remember they are using audioalchemy gears.if you can find the right gears and cabling for the Adante they will give you that live sounding music, they are that good. |
Another thing Contuzzi, when we went shopping for reference electronics for the Kef Blades, and Personas, we listened to many different combinations of electronics before finding electronics which made the speakers come alive. On the Kef Blades we tried Parasound JC 1 which were medeocre at best, the Electrcompaniet AW 400 which were better, then the Chord mono blocks which were far better than the other amps, we tried Hegel, Thrax, Conrad Johnson. The system which sounded the best was the T+A gear which combined the speed of the Chord and detail with a slightly warmer richer more tube like midrange. What is evident is that all of our reference speaker systems the Polymer Research a $68k speaker, the Kef Blades a $32k speaker, the Paradigm 9H a $35k set of speakers didn't sound magical on far less expensive electronics, it was only when matched with really good gear, cables and source components did we hear a sound that was really compelling. So back to the car analogy purchase a Ferrari or Porsche and say it comes time for new tires and you don't want to spend the money on really good tires you won't get the performance the car can offer with cheaper tires. The higher the performance evelope the better everything else must be in order to deliver it. Your 9H on the Anthem separates is a far cry from the 9H on the T+A gear. Now if your thinking just because something is expensive doesn't mean you are guaranteed performance either, it is a matching game and we have heard expensive gear that wasn't worth the price. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
We don't believe that any speaker will automatically sound good no matter what is matched with. That is like saying any high performance car engine will work in any car, take a Ferrari F40 engine and put in a Pinto did you accheive the Ferrari's performance? The reason a Ferrari perfoms like a Ferrari is that it is designed as a system. If you take any part away from it and it you will not get the performance the system as intended to deliver. There are really two types of speakers, high resolution designs and low resolution designs. The two camps can be summed up as Ribbon, Beryillium, Diamond drivers = High Resolution. Soft domes tweeters, paper cones, bextrine and certain polypropolyne lower resoloution. This is where system matching comes in: Higher resolution speakers require complete elimantion of hash, and must be mated with smoother sounding electronics. VS Lower Resolution speakers which require brighter sounding electronics, cables etc. Hope that helps. It is interesting to see how opinions vary, many people who heard the Adante at CES were blown away by them with Audio Alchemy electronics, and the Hifi News review I don't remember what they used with the speakers but they were blown away by the Adantes vs other people's opinions which are widly differing. We have not yet passed judgement on just how good the Adante's actually are. So far they are intriguing speakers that do certain things well, with our ultimate buy judgement not yet given. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Dave and Troy - just out of curiosity, do you guys consider the average speaker to sound great (80-90% if it’s full performance) with almost any amp/preamp/etc, or do you truly believe every speaker is like this Adante, where you (supposedly) have to seek out the perfect synergy to get them to sound good? Obviously, I think any good well designed speaker should and will sound 80-90 to its potential with virtually any setup behind it, even cheap gear. |
A couple of points just because a loudspeaker uses a particular material doesn't mean it is going to sound a particular way. We had the Vivid line all aluminum drivers and they never sounded hollow at all. Same with the Kef Blades and the Kef Reference and R series. There is a difference to what we would term hollow and being a bit forward. The Paradigm Prestige are a bit forward they are also incredibly exciting and visceral loudspeakers when driven correctly. The hollowness that we hear with the Elacs is probably more due to cabinet construction then anything else, yes the cabinets are well braced but I don't think there is any stuffing inside the speakers, and that may be the culprit. The Elac Adante will require an amplifier which is the inverse of the speaker, meaning slightly fat in the upper midrange and a tad rolled off in the upper treble. The Kef R 300 sound fantastic and are less bright then the LS 50 because they have a lot more bass and are a true three way speaker. We have never noticed any lack of coherency with the R 300 perhaps the stands were too tall. We sell a lot more Kef R 500 which are just terrific due to the fact that the R 300 plus stands is approaching the more full range R 500. In terms of Adante vs Legacy Calibres, no contest, the Legacy's are extraordinary, with unbelievable build quality, and every part is extremely expensive including the crossover components. Driver quality is off the charts. The Legacy is smoother, with better defined bass, and a glowing rich midrange. They are more like a $10k plus monitor in the league with the TAD ME 1 for half the price. They are that good! The Adante is going to be a good speaker once people find out exactly the right components to use with it. The issue is going to be too many people are going to think sure it is an Andrew Jones design and therefore is will be killer and use the speaker with any old gear, this is not the case with Adante. The Adante is a lot of speaker for the money, it will require a lot of time and investment in generally way better equipment then what is traditionally used in a $2,500.00 monitor. Most likely a tube amplifier is what is going to work with Adante, or a very warm solid state amplifier and a laid back source. We are still working with our demo pair and it has been busy lately so once we have had a bit more time with them we will report what combo is making magic with them. An Arcam amp with the Class G amps are going to work well, Naim should also work, as well as Prima Luna and Rogue. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
In the testing, it was noted the speaker demonstrating a flare at 5-6khz, which would certainly correlate with what has mentioned. The LS50 is also a very extended design and does display an elevated treble response. But if comparing the LS50 and R300, the LS50 will no doubt sound brighter due to its response curve and the lack of balance in bass. Are the rising treble responses due to the tweeter living inside of the midrange? |
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The R300 does measure decently well, but the article linked below is very extensive test of the R300 coax driver. http://medleysmusings.com/kef-r300-midrange-drive-unit-testing/ In the testing, it was noted the speaker demonstrating a flare at 5-6khz, which would certainly correlate with what has mentioned. The LS50 is also a very extended design and does display an elevated treble response. But if comparing the LS50 and R300, the LS50 will no doubt sound brighter due to its response curve and the lack of balance in bass. Some other reviews also noted the R300 integration not being quite whole between the drive units, and in specific the bass to mids. Haven't heard the Adante, but the very first measurements show a bit of flare from 8-12khz. Enough that it will likely be a bit airy sounding on good recordings but hot recordings won't be so enamored. You won't get consensus on treble response in speakers as we all have notably differing hearing abilities, especially as we age. I experience a little above average relative to age, others I know are at or below. |
I had an unfortunate experience with an 'unbroken in' pair of Adante at my local shop. I wanted to try something with concentric driver and compared the Adante with KEF LS50 and R300. Factoring out the unbroken in factor, I'd say you really have to listen to and confirm that you like the metallic concentric tweeter sound. The Adante and L50 both were too bright and harsh for me though not the R300. The R300 similarly with a 3way woofer I did not like the crossover between the bass woofer vs concentric midrange woofer, it was like the bass driver was constantly competing against the midrange driver. I'd imagine similar concern with Adante. Most accounts I've read claimed the R300 is the brighter speaker. |
I had an unfortunate experience with an 'unbroken in' pair of Adante at my local shop. I wanted to try something with concentric driver and compared the Adante with KEF LS50 and R300. Factoring out the unbroken in factor, I'd say you really have to listen to and confirm that you like the metallic concentric tweeter sound. The Adante and L50 both were too bright and harsh for me though not the R300. The R300 similarly with a 3way woofer I did not like the crossover between the bass woofer vs concentric midrange woofer, it was like the bass driver was constantly competing against the midrange driver. I'd imagine similar concern with Adante. |
Dear James_w514, Thank you for your explanation regarding the effect of aluminum drivers in enhancing the brassiness of speakers. Now that you mentioned it, I recall having the same impression when I was auditioning a pair of paradigm prestige 85Fs, which also have aluminum drivers. I have always been somewhat sensitive to the sound of loud trumpets and other brass instrumentes. |
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I spent more than 2 hours listening to a pair AF61s at one of the Elac distributors in the SF Bay Area. They sounded very nicely. I personally would have liked a bit more bass extension and found that the high frequency response was a bit too brassy. When I pointed this out, the person who was demonstrating the speakers said that the brassiness may be due to the fact that the speakers were not completely burned in. He then proceeded to change the configuration of the electronics. According to him, when I was listening to the speakers, the DAC was connected directly to the power amplifier. He then connected the DAC to a preamp and the preamp to the amplifier. The sound seems to have improved, both at the lower and high frequency ends, but unfortunately I had to leave and did not have enough time the evaluate the speaker with the revised electronics configuration. Unfortunately, I don’t remember the name of the equipment that powered the speakers, but it was supposed to be of very high quality. Even under my limited audition, I liked the Elac AF61 a lot a may consider buying them. I would like to first listen to a pair of Magico A3s and, if possible, to a pair of Tekton Electrons. |
The design lends a lot of interest as the approach is unique. Using a closed couple cavity with a band pass design to create an acoustic crossover of 12db per octave, which in turn lent to a simpler crossover design between the woofer and mid driver. A concentric driver to aid in creating better integration between the tweeter and mid driver. The passive radiator making speaker placement when dealing with boundary walls potentially easier. A bit of effort went into the design to be a bit more clever than most, especially given the targeted price point, but the commentary thus far indicates further refinement will be required. Its measured characteristics also indicates careful paring. First, it has a rather low efficiency with a specified 85db and measuring a bit lower. The impedance plot isn't benign and the tweeter is crossed over somewhat low at 2khz, which can be a challenge for any tweeter to produce cleanly. I know titanium and likely aluminium domes were tested, but fabric domes offer better damping properties and might have played a role in its selection. They are rather larger and heavy, which certainly isn't cheap to build and are likely offering good value for the build. Experimentation with power amps may be best. I also have some concerns about QC as pair matching wasn't very good. A question remains if the engineering was complete? We know that Elac has been looking to be a benchmark products at their price points, do they achieve that here? Time will tell, and feel I would be interested if they proved to be exceptional at their price, but initial impressions are not indicating as such. I do look forward in hearing what will be said about them as owners have more experience. |
While waiting for the Elacs to sell I decided to just let them play at low volume for the past 4 days. I ended up selling my reference speaker cables because I need a pair of biwired cables for the Vandersteens that I ordered so I threw in the old trusty Blue Jeans cables(slightly rolled off on top and a smidge grainy compared to reference cables) and decided to change power cords to Cerious(warmer than my Furutech’s) on my Aurender and Lyngdorf TDAI-2170...Wow. What I’m hearing now is incredible sense of space and tempo/timing. It still doesn’t have the tonal richness of paper drivers with SET but tonal saturation/warmth is vastly better. I spent about an hour absolutely glued to my seat tonight listening to music with absolutely zero fatigue. I pulled my listing for them. No doubt worth a little effort. I was thinking it would take both effort, time, and $$$ but like I said before I think Primaluna or Quicksilver el34 mid monos are potentially a great match (never know until you try).Cerainly my tweaks were all low cost and shockingly pleasing. The speakers were able to unravel densely layered music yet managed to have a very cohesive sound. |
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d2girls, The Personas are way better than the Adante AS 61's. As I said earlier the Adante shows tremendous promise and so far is doing certain things very well, the amount and tightness of the bass is very impressive, so is the big soundstage. From our limited so far music demos vs home theater demos, it is quite apparent that the Adantes will require careful system matching and probably more expensive equipment than what many people with a $2,500.00 speaker budget might be thinking about. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Hificrazed, Do you work for Elac? You have 17 posts all about the Adantes and a very recent join date? Does that make you feel better Contuzzi, we work with many products, unless we can come up with a combo that acutally works with the Adantes we will resign the line. At this point don't know if these issues are edemic with the product and that is how it is voiced or it is a setup issue? We were affraid the Adantes would beat the ATC SCM 19 at $4k but the ATC's so far are way better. For a $2,500.00 set of speakers the Adantes are very good, the question is what will be the right combonation of gear that will make them sing? My gut is telling me you need either cables or components with a fatter upper midrange, and a slightly rolled off top end. I am willing to bet Prima Luna gear and the Adantes will make a terrific match. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Post update, Just played some Tidal on the AVM 60/MCA 50 combo and wasn't loving the sound. I could hear a hollowness in the midrange and could hear the upper octave emphasis that is probably what Steve was talking about. I will say that I have never loved the DTS play fi and the lack of MQA also not loving the original MCA 50 either, but as we said in the earlier posts this is our process. We test with a lot of different gear and combos. The Parasound amplifier is richer. We are thinking a warmer voiced integrated amplifier like the Micromega M100, or a Rega, or the Unision Reserach tube hyrbid may be the ticket. Also tube amplifiers may be the combo that works. For people who have the AS 61 what are the combos of electronics, sources and cables are you using? How many hours of playing time was required before the speakers broke in? Pros so far: Big soundstage, great bass, good clarity. Cons so far: Slight hollowness in the midrange, slight tendency to coldness in the treble. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
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Hey Contuzzi, you just went down a whole heap in our book with some of your comments about us, and you like the Personas and Anthem gear and so we felt a kind of kin ship to you. We vet our products very carefully and only after testing them vs the competition and our other products as well as finding out which systems work together synergisitcally do we pass judegment on just how good the product actually is. Even without spending any real time with them listening to music seriously, we have been breaking them in with surround sound setup, the speakers do some things remarkably well, but we haven't passed any judgement other than they are a big set of speakers and they have prodigious bass and they do have a big soundstage. Funny they don't seem bright at all in our room with Wireworld Silver Eclipse speaker cables and they have been hooked up to an Anthem AVM 60 and a Parsound A23 amplifier. Just because a reviewer likes something doesn't mean it is the ultimate truth nor if the reviewer doesn't like something same thing as well. I have been to three major reviewers homes and only one had a system we would say knocked my socks off. One of the reviewers systems was $400k and it wasn't that impressive. One reviewer had a miss mosh of cables, no power conditioning, and his room sounded aweful. So you have to take a snippet review like Steve's with a grain of salt especially when he was testing the speakers in the CNET offices and not his home setup. The English review was a total rave so what does that say about the speakers. Once we have suitably broken in our demo pair will we give you guys an accurate assement of their sound. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
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I have had mine for almost two months and they have really opened up nicely. I did some swapping during this time as well which made a difference. Love these speakers but agree they may not be for everyone. But really what speaker is ? We all have different tastes in how, when and where we listen to music. This is what makes this hobby so great! |
@Contuzzi-Sorry my comments weren't aimed at you so I apologize if you were offended. I've been doing the audiophile system building thing for almost 20 years now(don't post frequently) and when evaluating the Elacs I had 2 choices. 1. Sell off the rest of my system and rebuild around the Elacs. 2. Find a speaker more similar to previous setups and keep the rest of my system. I chose option 2 because it's where I am in life right now and simply son't have the time to play (4 and 2 year old kids). I agree with James_w514 that the underlying presentation is likely going to lean in the detailed, exciting, edge of your seat experience even with good system matching. You will never confuse them with Harbeth or Audio Note. I have lots of friends that prefer that presentation and that variation in presentation among different systems is what keeps the hobby fun and interesting. Speakers are such a personal decision it's whatever you like. I hesitate to anoint a speaker as great (because there are so many variables inside the context of a system) and hesitate to disparage them as well. No doubt Andrew Jones is a brilliant designer and if I were inclined to take the time and effort to experiment with them, I could create a fantastic system...No doubt. I'm sure @Contuzzi could as well. |
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As an owner (who is selling) and an owner of the Unifi series for years I have advice for anyone thinking of the Adante's. I plopped them into my system that was built around speakers that are much more mellow sounding and realized they will show you exactly what your system sounds like. That's a double edged sword because if you just plop them into your system built around other speakers, it may not be the perfect match. These speakers are worthy of building a system around. The speakers are absolutely engaging and command your attention so if you are looking for a pair of "pipe and slippers" speakers you are in the wrong place. That being said, for anyone willing to build a system around them, they have the potential to be revelatory. As with all systems matching is critical and the Adante's are certainly no exception. I wish I still had my Quicksilver amps or Primaluna as I would bet they would be a fantastic match for them. Choosing sterile solid state with them would certainly be a mistake. Compared to the Unifi UB5's they are much more extended with a lot more treble energy. They are also far more transparent and dynamic as well. Bottom line is that these speakers are probably best put into the hands of a seasoned audiophile that really wants to create a special system around them. Just like you wouldn't want to hand the keys to your Ferrari over to your 16 year old, these are not for the unanointed system builder. David |
I agree. The UB5 was created to undercut the LS50, which it has. The Adante wants to be a budget Reference 1, but it appears to be voiced to excel in a Best Buy/Magnolia Hifi showroom next to B&W 705s. ELAC is not really a big enough brand in the US to be able to rely on a house sound to sell speakers. Their strategy seems to be to attack the front runners by undercutting and borrowing from their designs. |