I was wondering if anyone have try this cable? I have never try the original WE cable but I want to buy this cable for my speaker. Other candidate is supra cable.
Typically if running a low powered SET amplifier and high efficiency speakers, the 16 gauge would be preferred. Especially if your runs are under 10 feet.
In general the sonic difference between the two is the 12 gauge will give you a little more body and fullness.
As Im considering trying this cable and several people comment the gauges vs amp power and speaker sensitivity can someone recommend what should one use with a low powered SET, 8w Coincident Dynamo and 91db speakers?
@luisma31 I recently installed Duelund speaker cables on my Omega Alnico full range speakers.
I did dual 16ga to each leg. So 4 total “dual 16ga” tinned copper Duelund cables. I’ve been super impressed with them even after 20hrs. Letting them settle in to 100hrs before i fully compare to my Audio Sensibility Statement speaker cables.
What is the difference between digital IC and analog IC. I was hoping to use these ICs Between CD Transport from Audio lab to the DAC on Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 as Digital IC. Any experience? Any advise?
Hi to all, recently did buy 20 meters of dca16ga from PCX and I did a pair of RCA interconnect and is true what you tell us about kindness of this cable.
Very organic, realistic, open, from midle to up, from bottom is a bit weak yet, may be rolling need.
I just wondering if any of you have used this DCA to patch signal amp.
Thanks for the update. Your crossover caps can take 300 hours to settle in depending on the type. Large paper in oil/wax types can take up to 500 hours and the road is bumpy! Great you are improving your rig with DIY skills! Great satisfaction and sonic gain for reasonable money. Well done!
So I found out the issue, before I only had my speaker wires and one pair of IC done.
The duelund were revealing enough to show the weakness in my other wires, since then i've replaced everything with the duelund and I am impressed. They have defiantly moved my system forward, similar but not as significant as when I replaced all the caps in my speakers.
Yep it takes about 100 hours. 12 gauge a tad longer and 16 gauge you are all but there after 75 hours. But they never sound as bad as I read in his statement... never. Especially the ICs made with the 16 gauge. Wonder how they were built? Soldered professionally etc..... Did he shield them? If so, that will dull them. Something is amiss. This conductor does not go from awful and unlistenable to the best I have ever heard during break in. Just not what this wire does. It may be the connectors? Soldering job? How were they constructed? Need to know more about the system also.
In the end no wire or piece of gear will please everyone for a myriad of good reasons. But I have not heard of the Duelund stranded and tinned wire in cotton being so bad it was unlistenable and worse than cheap zip cord in essence. The Aphile world is always full of surprises!
If you remove the tin, the signal will travel from the copper in the wire to solder to the RCA connector instead of from the copper of the conductor, through the tin, through solder, and finally to the RCA connector.
Solder is mostly tin. Just solder your joints and don't worry about it.
After reading all the reviews, I decided to buy a bunch and redo my whole system in these, after 15 hours ..
I just tried the 16 in my system along with 20 to the woofer and had the same issue scm, the bass and low end on these wires are nice.
The mids and voices are gone, the sense of realism is gone.
The highs are still there but not as good.
Then I added the 16 as IC to my system, and it sounded even worse.
These are compared to generic cables from partsexpress
They also require the volume to be turned up.
I don't know if i can have them for another 80 hours, and have to listen to them for a few months to see if they work out, when they are so far from what I was looking for.
The tin plating is part of the sound and Duelund did not use it to ward off corrosion which is no longer an issue with today’s better wire coating.....including oil impregnated cotton. So it is there for the tone. It is a fine stranded copper wire and I would not try to remove the tin, I don’t you can anyway. It is part of the wire.
So yes the wire and cables sound better with the tin. You can buy stranded Duelund copper wire in cotton without the tin. It does not sound as beautiful.
I thought the dielectric was responsible for the sound of this wire? The tin coating is to prevent oxidation.
No, it does not melt off and cannot be removed
I'm not proposing to remove all of the tin coating, just the very end were it gets soldered.
It should be very easy to get off with Scotch-Brite, right? It should just be a very thin layer. Copper is a much better conductor than tin. If you remove the tin, the signal will travel from the copper in the wire to solder to the RCA connector instead of from the copper of the conductor, through the tin, through solder, and finally to the RCA connector. It's one less layer of a (poor) conductor that the signal has to pass through. Have you compared cables with and without the tin removed?
The tin coating helps give it the wonderful sound. It is part of the design and a big positive. No, it does not melt off and cannot be removed. I know the notion of tin costing and suburb Sonics can seem at odds. But it could not be further from the case with this Duelund wire.
Does the tin coating on this wire melt away during soldering when making ICs?
For those of you who use bare ends for speaker cable, are you removing the tin coating with something like Scotch-Brite? It doesn’t seem like a very good idea for the signal to have to pass through the tin coating.
I’m debating making a set of speaker cables for my Magnepan 3.6Rs that are bi-wireable. How many runs and what configuration would work? The amplifier is a Classe CA-200 and the they will be 7 to 8 feet long. Would non-biwiring work better?
@grannyring ... I`m using a 300 Watt per Chanel SS amp. My speakers are Revel F52`s the published specs show an efficiency rating of 87.5 db 6.5 Ohm nominal 3.5 Min @ 373hz I was using a 6Ft length of cable run using the Duelund. The MIT`s are
8 Ft .
My buddy has Zu Audio speakers with a 100 watt Rogue amp we`re going to try them just to see.
SCM, Not enough burn in for sure, but more going on here. Also, the 16 gauge with speaker less than 95db is not a good match...,especially with long runs. Need more info.... Was it an SS amp with speakers less than 95db effecient? If so, not an ideal match. Under 8 ohm speakers? Perhaps 4 ohm? If so, not the best match for 16 gauge single runs.
@grannyring ... Thanks for the input. Yes...I had the Duelund 16GA configured the way you mentioned (to mid/woofer then to tweeter). Got me a meter of the 12GA and made jumpers (bare-wired). Single run of the 16GA from the amp to tweeters. 12GA jumped from tweeter to mid/woofer. After 2 sessions (4 hours total)...the 12GA as jumpers yielded punchier bass. Soundstage and instrument images within more layered and less homogeneous. Acoustic guitars more snappy. Image size a little larger. Better image focus and overall a little fuller sound. I do detect more HF energy though...not sure if that's a plus or minus yet. Will know when I put on some female vocals on. Btw...I just discovered i have jumpers (bare-wire) of 16GA that I had experimented with prior the getting a full run of them. Hmmm...;)...what if I shotgunned 12GA + 16GA jumpers. Overkill? What would be the resulting gauge if I did that? Thanks for all your help. Really appreciate it. :)
I gave them a shot but for MY setup it was a No-Go. I let them 'burn in' for about 12 Hrs. The very first thing I noticed was the bass didn`t have the oomph/weight that I`m used to. They weren`t as revealing as my old cables either and didn`t have the overall fullness of the MIT`s. I also noticed that I had to give it more volume to reach my usual listening level, because I have a numeric display I could readily see the difference.
Not going to bother going to the 12 GA either because I sincerely doubt they`ll even get close to the MH750 Music Hose based on the characteristics/house sound of the Duelund`s I`ve had a few cables in my system (nothing expensive mind you) but the MIT`s are something special and they are back in and sounding great !
I DID make a set of jumpers from a left over piece so all`s not lost :) Was fun and interesting no matter the outcome. Steve
I did and was picking up a bit of hum. So I unsoldered them and wrapped them in the copper and the hum is gone, but not any of the dynamics, which I feared would happen. Just the interconnects, not the speaker cables, mind you.
It was a fun project and much easier thanI thought, especially after I made some mistakes on the first pair.
And for what it's worth: Some months ago, I consulted privately with grannyring when I decided to try my (soldering)hand at making my own speaker cables and RCA interconnects. After purchasing tens of meters of Dueland 12g, 16g, and 20g, as well as host of banana plugs and rca connectors, I got to work. In the end, and after nearly every combination possible, I am thrilled with the following set up:
Dueland 12g, twisted with mesh sheathing to bare wire on both ends for speaker cables.
Dueland 20g, twisted with both a copper mesh as well s a cotton cover terminated to the KLEI Harmony connectors. I use them from SACD/DAC to the preamp, as well as from my turntable.
The 16g with my room and set up just sounded a bit too slow and constrained, when used for interconnects.I know that my results are completely subjective, but I will state that the sonics far eclipse what I had prior, which were the upper ranks from Audioquest.
As a rough rule of thumb, if you're braiding four strands of wire, what is the ratio of the length of the unbraided wire to what you end up with? I.e. how much shorter is it? 1/2? 1/4? Or?
I just finished making a set of Duelund quad core wound jumpers using 4 runs of the 16 gauge Duelund wire terminated with the excellent Furutech FP203G spades. I jumped from the bass posts up to the highs on my Dali Epicon 6s. I am very pleased with the initial sound. Very. The combined gauge is 10.
I have two 6.5 inch woofers per speaker and prefer Duelund 12ga and Western Electric 10 ga over the Duelund 16 ga. But, my runs are very long and I prefer a nice full bodied sound that has bloom and meat on the bones. The 12ga Duelund and 10 ga Western Electric have this in spades!
grannyring...I`m actually thinking that maybe the 16ga is a better fit for my speakers. With the bass handled by 3- 6.5" woofers in each speaker I wonder if the thinner (16GA) would help in not over dampening them for a little fuller bass. Just a thought :)
After reading your post again I think you are using the method I outlined. I would connect the 16ga to the highs and try the 12ga as a jumper to the lows. Better idea in my opinion. 20 gauge is not wise as a jumper as you will find the result lacking in weight and body (bloom) compared to the 16 or certainly the 12 ga.
I think 20 ga is not the best idea when used as a jumper to the highs. I would use 16ga and have. No need to make jumpers at all if you use bare wire. Strip the wire with enough bare wire length to first wrap around the woofer binding posts and then run them up to the highs. Less hassle, less complexity with fewer breaks and connections/terminations.
Will this sound as good as true biwire cables? No way to know as you have to try to really know as it is speaker dependent. Run 16ga for the highs and 12 ga for the lows.
Wondering if anyone has tried or has input on this.
My speakers are biwirable. I am running a single run of DCA16GA to my speakers (mid/woofer posts)....then using the same cables to jump from my mid/woofer posts to the tweeters.Just like Jeff does.
Thinking of getting a meter of the 20GA and 12GA to use as jumpers. Anyone tried or have any idea on how it would turn out sonically? I am thinking the 20GA may produce a cleaner sounding treble but don't know if it will produce more top end energy than the currently used 16GA. I have no idea about 12GA.
I hooked up the Duelund DCA 16 GA last night and listened to a couple LP`s. Today I put a CD on repeat and have been playing the system at a very low volume.
Should I be concerned about pushing my 300 Watt amp using these cables into my Revel speakers ? The cable length is 6 Ft on each side, single run. Technically from what I`ve read I should be ok but I just wanted to ask.
I have found the Rhodium plating a tad bit too detailed on some other builds vs gold. Very subjective thing and I am sure not a universal rule? What have you found?
I agree with you and might add the word "splashy" sometimes, maybe a bit of glare with the wrong equipment. I also like gold because it matches up with most typical binding posts, and with typical connectors that manufacturers use on their equipment. I don't see an advantage to dissimilar materials as connectors. I gave up on rhodium a long time ago. I believe Cardas likes rhodium because it is harder and presumably wears better.
Yes I also lightly crimp and solder the Furutech. I like the gold better than Rhodium. I have found the Rhodium plating a tad bit too detailed on some other builds vs gold. Very subjective thing and I am sure not a universal rule? What have you found?
@jaybe PartsConnexion is certainly going strong. They are offering a price reduction on the Duelund wire currently...at least they were yesterday when I bought some. They also have a quite favorable price on the KLEI banana connectors, if you were thinking about using those.
@grannyring I agree with you about how good the Furutech spades sound and
on almost all my terminations
I have used either the FP-203 (crimp or solder connection) that I have available for this project or the FP-201 (bigger and with set screws). Both of these spades are pure Alpha copper with gold (my choice) or rhodium plating. I have previously used my hydraulic crimp tool with the FP-203 spades but this time I think I will lightly crimp with a hand tool and then solder. The solder should mix with the tin plating and create a more homogeneous connection.
I ordered the additional 12 awg Duelund wire for a pair of bi-wire speaker cables yesterday. I was planning to use the KLEI bananas for terminations but checked my supply and found I already have plenty of new spades so will use those instead of buying additional banana connectors.
@grannyring do you have any suggestions for use with the 12 awg Duelund wire, between the following spade connectors? Based on the picture of your BBQ speaker cables, it appears you are using something similar to the Vampire spades or maybe the Audioquest
1056G lug
spades. Below is what I have in stock. - Cardas 1/4" spade, bare copper (GRS C)
- Vampire
1/4"
SPD Spade Lug 10/12awg copper with direct gold plating - Furutech
FP-203(G) 5/16" 24K Gold-Plated Alpha pure copper
Most of my customers prefer the 16ga over extended listening periods when comparing the two. However, as you say sometimes it may come down to individual preferences and system needs.
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