I have been an avid user of the Duelund cabling for
over two years now and have used them exclusively in my system with great
results. I have built many for friends and have used a full loom of
interconnects, speaker cables, power cords and an extensive wiring modification
for a previously owned balanced power conditioner utilizing Duelund 600V PolyCast
wiring which was transformative. My cabling desires can be a little addictive
as I have owned and evaluated 40+ brands of cabling costing more than an entire
stereo system!
Over the past six months I stumbled upon a thread here
on Audiogon in regards to a Helix designed cabling and as you probably already
know, I just had to look a little deeper into this cable design…After a month
of studying and sourcing parts, I decided to reach out to the
designer/architect, Williewonka who gave more insights and philosophy on how
the cable came into existence.
That conversation got the ball rolling in converting
one of my KLE Duelund interconnects to Steve’s Helix designed which only entailed
replacing the neutral with a Mil-Spec 16 AWG silver-plated copper wire with the
neural wire being 3 times longer than the signal wire and of course the “Coiling”
of the neutral wire : )
After the modification was complete, I was not sure
what to expect from the Helix cabling but I was quite shocked with the results
with “ZERO” burn-in time…The sound stage became much wider/deeper with a much
tighter/focused image and clarity/transparency is like nothing I have ever
heard in any cabling regardless of cost. In fact, I just sold a full loom of a commercially
designed Helix Cable that’s renowned around the world and has more direct sale
than any cable manufacturer; these $200 DIY Helix Cables walked all over them…
I believe you will hear the same results as I have and
have heard back from friends who have already modified their Duelunds with the
same results; WOW! Remember the cables will need 200+ hours to burn-in and
settle into your system. My system is now 90% DIY Helix to include IC, SC, PC
and Coax with each cabling adding its beauty of an organic and natural
presentation that draws you into the fabric of the music.
You can tailor the sound of your cables using Duelund,
Mundorf silver/1% gold, the outstanding Vh Audio OCC Solid Copper or Silver with Airlok
Insulation or your favorite wiring and you can change it at any time…
I would add this one note. My system is very natural sounding and my Mojo Audio dac has much to do with this. No part of the frequency spectrum is out of balance. In my system a full loom of Helix cables works very well. If a system has a piece of gear or speakers that lean on the hot and lean side of things, then throwing in one warmer IC, for example, can be a good thing. I tried a Duelund Double in my system and that does darken and warm up the sound a tad. May be good for some systems.
These Helix cables remove noise you never knew was there! They are great at removing noise and bringing you closer to the music and realism of the performance and instrument.
The cumulative effect of the Helix cables is quite arresting. I now have Double Helix ICs, USB and jumpers. In addition, all my power cables are now Helix. I can say that the more the better. Each new cable I added increased the realism and resolution of my system.
Only thing left is a couple of DC power cables for my LPS’s.
So, I answer questions from DIYer’s from all over, with vastly differing skill levels of building experience.
As such, I often get the feeling that some of them might be biting off more than they can chew.
I got to thinking about the questions I answer (almost daily) and thought it might be good to take a more "tempered view" of these three latest versions of the Helix cable - sort of a "sanity check".
Also, I know @wig , @grannyring and myself have logged hundreds of hours building and listening to cables over the years and we each have a specific approach when it comes to comparing cables - i.e. things to listen for. - I know I have trained my ears over the past 10 years and now have over 70 audition tracks I regularly use for auditions - From a listening perspective, I believe the improvements between these three versions might prove more difficult to discern for a more "casual listener".
Another concern is that less proficient DIYer’s may find some aspects of Building #3 to be challenging, even for a more experienced builder. - Helix IC cables are more complicated to build than your average DIY IC cable and good soldering skills are definitely a requirement.
The wires used in all three builds are... - SIGNAL WIRE - 18 gauge Solid Copper with AirLok insulation from VH Audio - NEURAL WIRE - 16 gauge Cryo Silver Plated stranded Mil-Spec wire with Teflon insulation from Take Five Audio
So here are my "more tempered" thoughts on these three builds.
#1 -Single Wire for both signal and neutral coil
this is the original cable currently listed on my web site
provides excellent performance that rivals or betters most TOTL cable brands on the market
the easiest cable of the three to build, even for a novice DIYer.
It’s also the most affordable option
#2 -Two wires for the signal wire and One wire for the neutral coil
by comparison to #1, this cable is a little more articulate, with improved clarity and a more detailed and expansive image
a little more challenging to build, but even a novice could build with a little determination and thought
it’s also pretty easy to upgrade to this version from #1
#3 Two wires for both the the signal wire and neutral coil
by comparison to #2, this cable provides some additional improvements in articulation, clarity and image
The audible difference between #2 and #3 is actually quite small and the increased difficulty of the build I believe makes previous cable building and soldering experience a must.
But if it’s Audio Nirvana you are after? - #3 is the cable to build :-)
Opting to build #1 or #2 is definitely easier and still results in a cable that provides exceptional audio performance - so don’t think you have to opt for #3 simply because it was found to offer the very best sound quality.
As I get older I find myself "tempering" my expectations with a solid dose of "reality". Saves me a lot of frustration - and money :-)
I plan to keep all three cables in my system for future reference purposes, but I will not feel I am "missing out" when listening to sources that use #1 or #2, to me they are just a little different
Well - since we were having another day of bad weather and since I had found enough spare wire to try the full Helix "Double Barrel" as per @grannyring ’s formula, I figured what the heck and gave it a whirl
The cables I changed had a single strand of Mundorf Solid Silver/Gold for the signal with a single strand of 16 Gauge Mil-spec Silver plated stranded copper, as per the recipe on my web site. The cables were 27" long.
I completely de-constructed the mundorf cable and doubled up on the Mundorf Solid Silver/gold for the Signal and doubled up on the 16 gauge Silver plated Mil-spec as per grannyring’s modified version.
Verdict... - well the full Double Barrel edged out the Double Signal cable that I tried yesterday. - the fullness improved and the imaging was more spacious and accurate - all tracks were more articulate. - both cables seem to lessen the amount of compression that is a generally present in most recordings. - the guitar work on Dire Straights tracks now seem to leap out of the speakers whilst maintaining a suitable balance with the rest of the instruments and vocals. This goes for most other well recorded rock tracks - classical tracks seemed to now be performed in a larger venue thanks to the better imaging and I noticed more echoes and reverberations from the sides of the venue, which made the send of space more realistic - all tracks seemed to have a little more "body" compared to the Double Signal
The improvement between these two cables over the Single Cable made the upgrade well worth while.
Since the neutral wire is the more reasonably priced piece of wire, it makes upgrading to the full Double Barrel version a no brainer.
I could not really tell the difference between the Mundorf Wire and the VH Audio Solid COPPER wires, both provide stunning fidelity, so I would recommend using the solid copper at this time
The "Double Barrel" really is the best version of the Helix Interconnect cable to date.
I know that Grannyring has himself tried several versions of the Double Barrel Helix, so I would like to thank him for his efforts in coming up with a winning formula, it is very much appreciated.
If you already have the single wire version, then upgrading to the Double Signal wire version is the easier of these two upgrades and you will achieve about 60% of the benefits obtained from a full Double Barrel rebuild.
But - If you are pursuing Nirvana, then you’ll need Go for the full Double Barrel upgrade ! - so perhaps relegate that single cable to a second system, or sell to a friend - and start from scratch, - it is so much easier than de-constructing an existing cable :-)
I have just heard back from a person that implemented the Helix Speaker cables. He was very happy with them until he changed the amp to a Vitus Audio SIA 025.
The
Vitus employs a "symmetrical" design approach (think 100% Balanced) from the inputs to the speaker terminals. This means that both +ve and -ve terminals both carry "the signal" - a bit like a balanced power supply. It has no real neutral.
The manufacturer clearly warns users to never ground the black speaker outputs.
This resulted in a terrible sound when the Helix cables were used, because of the coiled neutral
I would have to believe that many other geometries are not suited to this amp, in particular some or the TOTL Cardas cables and perhaps Kimber Kable, because their capacitance is significantly hier than other speaker cables and this amp is a high current solid state design
This is the first time I have had anyone report problems with the Helix Speaker Cables.
Well, @grannyring - now you’ve gone an done it - now I have to upgrade my IC’s - yet again :-)
For once - Rain started play - I decided to put a rainy day to good use and upgrade a set of interconnects with a second identical wire for the signal conductor - basically, half the approach grannyring has tried - he also doubled up on the neutral wires.
I have been auditioning a Helix IC with the 18 gauge Aolid Copper wire with AirLok from VH Audio. It competed favourably with the Solid Silver Mundorf wire at about 1/5th the cost. So today, I upgraded these IC’s with a second identical 18 gauge signal wire
The results were impressive to say the least and the cables are not even burned in at all yet.
Improvements... - more precise artist placement within the image - improved articulation of very small instrument details e.g. plucking guitar strings - they now "pop" - improved clarity across the board - overall sound is more lively and less compressed
So what’s in the cable I am listening too? - a Helix interconnect with ONE 16 gauge neutral wire (as per the web site) - TWO 18 gauge VH Audio Solid Copper + AirLok insulation signal wires (NEW) - KLE Innovations Absolute Harmony RCA plugs (as per the web site)
So far this cable is performing better than my IC’s that have a Solid Silver Mundorf wire + Cotton sleeve + Absolute Harmony RCA’s
For me, If I can hear improvements easily, then an up[grade like this is worth it - and this was noticeable from the get go. I didn’t have to play multiple tracks to discern a minute change - it was clearly audible. What Grannyring refers to as "a wall of sound" and I can see why
On the plus side, the solid copper wire is much more affordable than the silver.
But, will a dual Solid Silver wire with AirLok insulation sound even better?
Well said Steve. Folks like you, me, and others with a plethora of first hand experience know what is true because we took the time and conducted the listening and other tests. We build, tweak, adjust, re-build, make more adjustments, listen and over time we learn. Just nuts how Agon has this growing crowd of “cant be/wont matter” folks who just hang here to say ”no/can’t be”. Strange and unfortunate turn for the worse on this site.
I sure miss the good old days when we could all learn from each other’s experiences and respect was given. Not so anymore. We have a new crowd that has not done the work or given the effort on a certain matter, but they still desire to say “no way” based on something they read or learned in a classroom. Nothing beats trying for yourself and learning through actual experience.
Your cable is not going to make a bit of difference to the temp of the Powernode. It has a switching supply and nothing your cable does is going to make any difference to the efficiency except maybe make it worse.
Since you did not OBSERVE the reduction in temperature and the associated ambient conditions and the level the music was played at, you are not really in a position to make that assertion and your words are simply conjecture.
My comments were not based on a single A/B comparison, but observations and temperature measurements over a number of weeks.
It may not be the style of observation that you would consider definitive proof, but I consider it something to make others that adopt the Helix cables aware of.
Anyway - I have nothing else to contribute on this matter - I'll simply leave it for others, i.e. who use the Helix cables, to perhaps come to their own conclusions based on "observation".
Plus - in addition to stellar low level performance, I find I am able to listen to music at significantly louder levels without fatigue. e.g. Classical music can be a little overbearing at higher levels with most other cables, but I find I can now listen at concert levels without any issues. Opera is another genre that I find is also far more pleasurable with the Helix.
@wig Great to hear. I have new speaker drivers (Lii Audio Crystal 10s) and a new 4 watt SET amp (Whammerdyne DGA-2+RAM) which are high resolution and sound wonderful. They show the weakness in my front end system and anything else. I need to make 2 Helix Power Cords and get a new streamer and DAC.
Regardless I love the sound I am getting now and can't wait to get over 200 hours on the cables.
@williewonka Thanks for sharing your design and actively answer questions about it. I have built the interconnects and speaker cables and am enjoying them. I am in the process of upgrading my system and these cables have given me a better sound than the old AQ interconnects and Duelund speaker cables I was using. I can't wait to get a quality front end to my system to hear how the sound improves.
Unless you measured the volume level, this is almost the same as random. We can't remember volume levels with any accuracy and a few db of volume could be many degrees of temperature on the heat sinks.
similar volume level
Your cable is not going to make a bit of difference to the temp of the Powernode. It has a switching supply and nothing your cable does is going to make any difference to the efficiency except maybe make it worse.
w.r.t. the IR thermometer, they don't work well on anodized aluminum. Even on black anodized they are not very accurate. The only way to get accurate results on aluminum is to put paint on it, though a heavy permanent market can work okay as well.
@roberttdid - yes it's infra red, but a pretty good one - for the amp I measured in two very specific places - on the faceplate near the heatsink and on the heatsink. Each time the music has been played for a similar length of time and at a similar volume level, with similar tracks.
Same process with the source components.
A similar experience was observed with the Bluesound Powernode 2 on my AV system and a couple of phono stages.
WRT:
Where it won't is say near a transformer in an aluminum case, or other incidences of magnetic coupling.
I try to keep my cables well away from transformers of any kind :-)
I was careful in my wording about magnetic interference. Grabbing a cable with your hand is electrostatic interference predominantly and the helix winding will help just like a coax cable will help. Where it won't is say near a transformer in an aluminum case, or other incidences of magnetic coupling.
WRT Your comment about the coil not reducing magnetic interference -
I tried a simple test back in time, to verify the effectiveness of the
Helix coil for this purpose... - I selected my phono stage on my amp - I turned the volume to full - I held in my clenched fist a standard power cable and a Helix IC connecting the TT to the phono stage - I observed hum - I repeated the same process but using the helix power cable and the same Helix IC - the hum was reduced significantly to almost zero
Keep in mind, I am not knocking the sonic outcome, I am just describing what is happening.
w.r.t. your equipment running "cooler", I am skeptical, but may I ask, is you amplifier Class-A? How did you measure the temperature? If it was with one of those IR ones, they can vary a lot if not used properly.
One interesting thing with adding a large inductor in series with a linear power supply is that the output voltage of the linear power supply will drop. Lower output voltage = lower heat. I doubt you are adding enough inductance to achieve this though. You are also adding resistance with the longer wire which also will lower the voltage. Then again, the AC may have been 115 one day, and 125 the other day when you measured the temps.
@roberttdid - I have been advised by many in the past of the points you have posted above (and more) and have been "ridiculed" in my approach and design.
Many people on the various forums where the helix design have been discussed would "appear" to have significantly more electrical knowledge than myself, but their comments are purely conjecture, since none of them have actually tried the cables for themselves at the time they made the comments
Most high end commercial products are designed by people with far more knowledge/experience about cable design than myself, in labs with huge amounts of resources.
And yet, my cables continue to outperform many of the high end commercial products available.
WRT Your comment about the coil not reducing magnetic interference - I tried a simple test back in time, to verify the effectiveness of the Helix coil for this purpose... - I selected my phono stage on my amp - I turned the volume to full - I held in my clenched fist a standard power cable and a Helix IC connecting the TT to the phono stage - I observed hum - I repeated the same process but using the helix power cable and the same Helix IC - the hum was reduced significantly to almost zero
So, I concluded (rightly or wrongly) that the helix coil was having the same effect as a faraday cage in reducing EMI/RFI - perhaps I am wrong, but my ears told me otherwise.
I would love to partner up with someone that has the , knowledge experience and equipment to be able to measure the effectiveness of these cables, so I could explain WHY these cables work so well, but until then I will continue to trust my ears.
One of the "side effects" of implementing the Helix cables across an entire system that I have observed... - the solid state components tend to run noticeably cooler. - I actually measure the reduced heat output and for source components they can run 3-4 Celsius cooler - and my amp runs 5-6 degrees Celsius cooler.
Why? - I do not know, but I see reduced heat as a good side effect
If you can shed any "light" as to why the cables work so well I would be more than willing to listen, since my reasoning’s are not verified by actual measurement, or as some like to point out - a lack of sound electrical knowledge
Also, many thanks for your very civil post (honestly) - most people that "disagree" with the Helix design just say I am posting nonsense and should not be believed. (or words to that effect).
Would it be wrong to point out that you have pretty much built an inductor? This geometry will not reduce magnetic interference by the way, it would probably make it worse. This is how spark plug wires are wound in order to create high inductance in order to reduce transmission of high frequencies in the wire itself.
If this provides you more listening enjoyment, then absolutely you should do it, but you should also be cognizant of what you are creating.
w.r.t. a power cord, contrary to what many believe, inductance in a power cord is probably better in many cases. Those high "peaks" they carry high frequencies that the power supply is not great at filtering. Amplifiers usually have inductive filters on the AC to soften those peaks.
@williewonka thank you for sharing your experiments and @wig as well for your findings. I am ready to build a 1.3m long Helix interconnect and think I'll go for the Mundorf variation. A quick question: -- the signal wire is 1mm (18g) silver; -> what do you recommend for the neutral / return wire? Regards
@dbass - the solder you have chosen is very good, so it will provide great performance sonically.
The main reason I specified WBT 4% silver on my web site was to get the point across that a "quality solder" should be used..
When I first started using the KLE Innovations RCA plugs I did notice a sonic improvement when I switched from the solder I purchased from the local hardware store, to the WBT.
I now use a
Eutectic solder instead of WBT and have not noticed any degradation in sound quality and the joints are very reliable
Because of the rapid state change from liquid to solid, the
Eutectic solders make a better joint both electrically and mechanically - By comparison, the WBT solder does not transform as quickly and can result in a poor joint if your hand is a little shaky, like mine
@wig Thx! for your comparisons @williewonka Again Thx! for your feedback on these options.
I built the Helix Interconnects with the Mundorf 1mm Silver Gold wire. I deviated in 1 way from the recipe and used
Cardas 1/4 Lb. Ultra pure tin/lead/Silver/copper Quad Eutectic instead of the WBT 4% silver solder. Am I losing sonics by not using the WBT solder?
@wig , @grannyring @dbass - I've just been listening to a pair of 1 meter IC's that now has a single strand of 18 gauge VH Audio Solid Copper, in place of the single strand of 1mm dia (17-18 gauge) Mundorf Solid Silver/gold wire. FYI: I did not use the cotton sleeve as with the Mundorf wire, mainly because the VH audio wire has insulation.
RE: IC's, I can confirm Wig's findings almost to the letter, the only difference being, I found the Mundorf wire to be a smidgeon fuller sounding and a tad warmer, but we are talking about a difference so small the I had to listen intently on my system at least, but again, there may be more of a difference on higher resolving systems. Every other metric we tend to use to assess sonic performance was identical to my ears at least.
RE: Power cables: - I have also now compared power cables and although I did not hear as much of a difference between the VH Audio Silver vs. VH Audio copper as Wig observed, I did believe that there would be a more discernible improvement when used on components capable of higher resolution.
RE:
Schroeder method. - I'll also wait for @grannyring 's observations. - It's an approach that does seem to provide improvements using conventional cable geometry.
To all - Your modifications and observations posted above are invaluable in shaping the future versions of the Helix cables, since I am but one guy with one modest system, so when others are willing to try other wires and approaches on an array of systems/components I really do appreciate the time/effort/costs involved.
@ grannyring Thanks and looking forward to your observations with the Schroeder Method.
I’m also going to add another silver conductor to one of my IC to determine if the additional conductor is discernable and from my previous SM cables, the differences can be dramatic...
Great feedback Wig. I will be trying running a second 16 gauge Helix negative wire along with the 2 VH Audio solid core copper conductors on positive. So two positive and negative conductors for a double IC. My plan is to try and coil both 16 gauge Helix conductors simultaneously with the rod and drill method.
DIY Helix Shoot-Out/OCC Silver Vs OCC Copper Power Cord
Finally had the opportunity to conduct side-by-side evaluation on two power cords that has added immensely to my listening sessions. Both cables are stellar in their performance and I thought there would be razor thin differences but boy was I wrong, the OCC Solid Silver carves out the soundscape with precision, allowing the listener to effortlessly follow the musicians that are developing within and beyond the boundaries of your Loudspeakers. The OCC Silver just excels in ambient retrieval, subtle nuances, decay, air… The OCC Solid Copper is still spectacular and has the same attributes but lacks the overall resolution of the Silver.
DIY Helix Shoot-Out/Mundorf Silver/Gold Vs 2X OCC Copper Interconnect
I thought the differences between these two conductors would be day and night and was quite surprised on what I heard. I will say that the Mundorf/Gold combination is more resolving and if your components are not up to the task, you may not even hear the differences… The Mundorf was again slightly more transparent with more bite and the sound stage had more depth. It will really come down to personal preferences based upon the equipment’s ability to extract the very best out of these cables. Two OCC Solid Copper runs on the signal conductor is no slouch and does everything the Mundorf does with just a tad less resolution.
I could definitely live with 2 runs of OCC Solid Copper on the signal conductor of my interconnects but if your source components are in the low wattage range, I would highly recommend going with the OCC Solid Silver conductor/s on your power cords; it’s just marvelous and easily discernable…
My self and others have tried different wires for the neutral and all have found that the silver plated Mil-Spec wire provides the best performance from a sound quality perspective, but also holds the coil shape extremely well while remaining very flexible.
A single solid copper wire will also work, but it is not as good from a sound quality perspective
@dbass - I do not believe they will be better than the Mundorf because silver is a better conductor, but they should offer a similar level of performance for "most metrics", just not quite as dynamic and perhaps not quite as good at imaging.
I could be wrong - But I've come to realize there are so many variables that sometimes you just have to try stuff to evaluate "a hunch"
Talking a Step Back: I mentioned in a previous post about making Helix PC’s for my Guitar Amps - for these cables I took a step back in their construction techniques in order to provide a more durable cable 1. I use a 12 gauge Duelund stranded wire with the polymer insulation for flexibility 2. I added a cotton expandable sleeve over the live wire for internal abrasion resistance 3. I use a nylon outer expandable sleeve for external abrasion resistance
Unlike Audio cables, which tend to sit motionless at the back of a system, guitar amp cables have a more dynamic lifespan and must be able to take more of a beating... - they are connected/disconnected and flexed repeatedly - they may get trodden on of lay on rough surfaces
Even with these precautions, from a wear perspective, Helix PC’s ARE NOT as durable as a piece of Furutech cable.
PERFORMANCE: - Due to the more dynamic nature of guitar amps, I really could not tell the difference between the "Audio" and the "Live Music" versions when used on my guitar amp..
I will be posting an update to the web site on this I a couple of days
@williewonka I would love it if you tried the VHAudio copper in your ICs and reported back - but I have already ordered the Mundorf wire so that is what I will be assembling next week when it arrives.
@wig What type of cable cooking do you do for your ICs, SCs and PCs? I have a Frybaby that can do voltage and current conditioning on ICs and SCs and would love to learn from your experiences and usage.
@wig - I just looked at the photo's on your system page and saw your PC.
I thought my Red/Green PC's looked cool, but your Black and White version looks way more professional, especially with the Carbon style plugs.
Who knew, you can have PERFORMANCE and GOOD LOOKS !
Helix DIYer's are coming up with some cracking "style" choices - One guy built the Speaker Cables using the Black Neutral (Helix) with the Solid Copper with Red Insulation for the Live conductor - but he stained each bead BLACK - they too look very stylish
Thanks to all who have embraced the Helix Design - it keeps me going :-)
@wig - that would be great - I think your DAC would be a better component to test these PC's with for sure.
Just from a conductivity perspective the silver should be a little more dynamic and perhaps a little "crisper" - everything else should be the same given the only difference is the actual metal
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