Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

@williewonka I have seen USB, but what about micro USB and type C? Also, what about coaxial Bnc cables? 

@provst - WRT Which wire to use

This is a tough one - It’s too bad you have purchased the TFA Mil-Spec.

I could tell you that there was only a tiny improvement, but it was easily discernable and I considered it a worthwhile upgrade

Having said that the two cables I upgraded were

• the PC for the amp
• the PC for the power distribution box that provides power to the source components
• the two cables from the distribution box to the source components still use the Mil-spec

So if oyu have a similar setup you could use some of the Mil-spec

Generally - I would recommend getting the Neotech Stranded UP-OCC wire and make a single Helix coil for the neutral with a 2 x 14 gauge live conductor using the Air adaption (i.e. bare wire inside teflon tube) for best performance.


RE:

I assume your observations are with single ended cables using RCA’s, so that cable will consist of a signal wire and a helix both made by using Neotech. My question is, what are the expectations, when interconnects are balanced using XLR connectors and where Neotech is used for ve+ and ve-. Would you expect differences for the better, if the helix (which is ground on a balanced cable) also was converted to Neotech?

Yes - a single ended cable was used
Yes - I would expect the same improvements for XLR with all wires being Neotech with a single Helix Coil neutral (i.e. ground)


Regards - Steve

@jambaj0e - it works for USB cables - for details see

The HELIX USB Cable | My Audio Alchemy (image99.net)

Regards

On a different note - regarding interconnects.
The observations found by you, Steve, indicates that there are huge improvements to be expected, if one replaces mil spec with Neotech. I assume your observations are with single ended cables using RCA’s, so that cable will consist of a signal wire and a helix both made by using Neotech. My question is, what are the expectations, when interconnects are balanced using XLR connectors and where Neotech is used for ve+ and ve-. Would you expect differences for the better, if the helix (which is ground on a balanced cable) also was converted to Neotech?

Steve - thank you so much for elaborating and commenting on your perspectives.
My reason for asking regarding the double helix is, that my very good friend and I are standing at a crossroad. We have all materials at hand for building multiple power cords using Neotech solid core wire as live conductor and cryo mil spec from TFA as double helixes for Neutral plus PE. Based on the newest observations from @wig and you we are unsure, whether we should shift focus and acquire a larger batch of Neotech (either stranded or solid core) for Neutral, and if that Neutral should be a single or double helix. We have concluded that the easiest path when making the helixes is to do all in one go, ie one Neutral plus PE or double Neutral plus PE. Up until now we was of the impression, that only a double helix for Neutral would be the best possible solution, which is why I asked regarding your choices of single helixes, when using Neotech. Hope this makes sense. Any recommendations are highly appreciated.

As to the Neutral conductor in a power cable it makes common sense, that electrons are flowing also in the Neutral conductor. A local electrician informed us, that there could be some signal passing even though, it was supposed to be a firm zero. We have also measured very low output on Neutral deducting from the live conductor for the total voltage difference on hand.

Out of curiosity, does the Helix geometry work for BNC cables or HDMI? What about USB to micro USB/USB type C?

@ provst - my own personal approach when making changes to a cable is to introduce a single change at any one time. This allows me to assess the changes as they relate to just that change.

One of the original approaches in the Helix design was to incorporate a larger gauge neutral wire. and this approach was adopted across all cable types and it appeared to work very well.

Also, very early on I did try different wire types for the neutral on my interconnects, but they seemed to provide little, to no benefit over the larger gauge Mil-spec wire, so I never pursued it any further.

And remember that the Mil-Spec is silver plated, which contributes to it’s conductivity, which probably made it perform better than those other wires tried at that time - i.e. until most recently, the UP-OCC wire was used.

So when @wig reported his positive observations after replacing the Mil-Spec neutral with Neotech Solid wire, I decided to try the same "approach" with a single wire on my interconnects. That proved to be successful.

I then went on to try that same approach on my power cables, but with a single stranded wire, which was also very "successful".

The Neotech UP-OCC wire was the first wire that made a noticeable improvement when used for the neutral.

Now, both my interconnects use a double signal wire and a single larger gauge neutral wire. Would a double neutral wire perform better? I believe it would, it’s just a case of BY HOW MUCH?

So now I have cables that are performing at (close to) the very top end of the "performance curve" and I believe I may be entering the region of "diminishing returns".

So I have to ask myself - will the amount of improvement achieved by adding a second neutral really going make enough of a difference to justify the expense and the effort?

I still have two source power cables that use the Mil-spec neutral and they sound great, but I might try this approach just to satisfy my own curiosity :-)

If money were no object I would invest in cables using UP-OCC solid silver for all conductors - they should provide the very best sound possible

WRT you statement...

When discussing power cords I seem to remember, that one of the prerequisites for the design was, that no power was running on the neutral side, only in the live wire.

I believe this may have been in context of the "safety aspect" of the Helix design and the fact that should the insulation on the neutral become compromised, it would not present a significant risk of electric shock because the neutral side IS (or should be) at zero vaults provided all the other attached electrical circuits are functioning correctly.

But the neutral IS required to allow the transfer of electrical energy from the live to "ground" and having a better "pipe" to accomplish that transfer would naturally result in better performance.

Regards - Steve

@williewonka @wig and others

What is the reason behind, besides costs, to only use one helix when using Neotech compared to the recommended two helixes when mil spec is used? The double helix has so far appeared to be the preferable solution following the Schroeder Double Shotgun principle.

When discussing power cords I seem to remember, that one of the prerequisites for the design was, that no power was running on the neutral side, only in the live wire. Hence - from that understanding it comes as quite a (pleasant) surprise, that changing from mil spec to Neotech offers such huge improvements as described here. Does these observations make thinking of the basics behind the power cords to be modified?

@ williewonka

That's great to hear that your observations mirrors the same attributes I heard and quite amazing that OCC is more resolving than Mil-Spec Copper!

Wig

Another PC Triple C Doner Wire I have discovered for this design for a Power Chord is:
SAEC SPC 850 it is a Cable with 3.4 sq mm ( 12 - 10 AWG )
As a cable it has Two Stranded Wires per Metee Length.

In a very recent investigation, I have seen it sell for £ per metre and under, Shipping and Duty will be extra.

Any thoughts on this as a cable will be well received as I have a opportunity to purchace this and have sent with my other Wires,
that are in a Package that has a shipping deadline that is very close.

@jambaj0e - just reviewed your "balanced" headphones and it appears the Helix geometry will not work well with your headphones.

Balanced headphones requires both lines, i.e. the +ve and -ve, wires to be identical (length, gauge and metal
- it’s a bit like the output from a balanced power supply.
- but it is not "balanced" in the same way XLR interconnects are built .

Whereas the Helix wires are a "single ended" architecture that has a neutral that is 3 times the length of the signal wire and a different gauge for Signal and neutral wires

Hope that explains things - Steve

I have completed the Order for the Wire Types I have made known previously.
There is one small change to my Plan, as the Cables will ultimately end up as XLR.
This change has occurred as the Engineer who has produced my Valve Monoblock Power Amp's has agreed to turn the Amp's into a Balanced Design.
I made the inquiry as I am intending on having a Pre Amp Built that will also be in a Balanced Version of the popular DIY Model.

I will carry on with the Plan as discussed, if I choose to buy RCA Connectors and not repurpose owned ones, I will not invest as much into purchasing the RCA Connectors.

Is there any other things I should consider when allowing for the Wire Usage, to work as both single ended and at a later date balanced ?  

UPDATE: - following @wig 's lead, regarding replacing the Mil-Spec neutral with Neotech wire on my power cables, I ordered some 12 gauge stranded Neotech UP-OCC wire, which finally  finally arrived yesterday :-)l 

Without any break-in time there was a noticeable improvement

• more details and improved clarity - especially in the top end
• improved articulation throughout
• more robust bass with even more texture
• faster dynamics
• Improved image - deeper and more precise artist placement
• totally invisible speakers

But was it worth the expense?

Well, I only used s single wire as opposed to the two mil-spec wires

But taking that into account - it more expensive than the Mil-Spec.

However - when you experience the improvement of the wonderful sound - it was definitely worth it.

The Neotech Stranded UP-OCC is probably not as good as the Neotech solid wire, but I have no intention of wrestling a 12 gauge solid wire.

The Neotech UP-OCC was very similar to the Mil-Spec to work with

• it held the Helix shape nicely
• was easy to stretch out over the length of the live conductor
•  only needed one wire
• it was a little larger in cross section than the mil-spec

How much difference was there? The improvements were noticeable without any burn in, so I think things will improve over time

Regards - Steve

What do you think about doing this for Audeze LCD headphone cables with 4-pin XLR ends? I'd love to see if that can be done, and hell, I'll even buy it if someone can make one for me as a custom cable.

AWC-10 PC Triple C is the same Wire used in a Furutech Power Cable.
It is available as a Bulk Buy Wire, but the Ad's I am discovering have it reported as Out of Stock.
It is dufficult to determine if the Non Availability is permanent, as I have not got a direct communication with a supplier.

AWC -10 or AWC-11 PC Triple C are available as a Bulk Buy Wire.
These are on my Wire Order, but are a  20 AWG Wire. 

Tom - funny you mention that because I happened to look at the InaKustic earlier today and yes,, I realized I can't use it for the amps. Now I have a high pitched hum in both speakers that I have to try and figure out.  It is coming form the either the DAC or U-1 mini.  Man I just want clean music.

@willgolf

The Inaukstik powercord you have has a 20amp female plug. It is not compatible with your power amp. I believe plugin adapters are made to convert a 20amp female plug to a 15amp female plug? Otherwise VH audio makes some nice powercords if you are looking to buy new. VH Audio AirSine or cheaper option is Audio Envy powercord https://audioenvy.com/product/power-cord/5732/

Steve and Mawe
Thank you for the information.  I did watch the video.   Very interesting.  My Canary Grand Reference has 16 300B tubes....that will be a project in of itself and who knows maybe it is more than one tube.  It should be noted the tubes are relatively new.  

Being functionally blind it is very hard for me to do any DIY stuff.  Seeing that I have an extra InaKustic 2404 PC that I am not using, I might as well do the simple thing and just order another one to cover the Mono Amps.  

I still have a very slight hum, which is partly due to the sensitivity of my 98db Viking Acoustic Grande Voix speaker.  The speaker cables I am using are the Viking Acoustic Gottenberg cables.  

@ willgolf 

your hum , it seams to me like you have a DC voltage on your mains, or picking up some sort of RFI or EMI.
And it could be, that the helix design does not filter any. 

A power cord that does a kind of filtering could be a multi wire cable with “ cross-connections” of the wires.

I have good results with a 7 wire standard Ölflex CY 110 cable, 7G1,5.

It has 1 centre wire and 6 wires around this centre wire. G1,5 means, each wire is 1.5 sqmm (15 AWG). 
Cross-connection means, you use from the outer wires no.1,3,5 and connect them to L, and wires 2,4,6 to N. The centre wire I only connect to ground on the mains plug, not the IEC plug.

This makes up to a 3x 1.5sqmm (4.5 sqmm) power cord. The CY 110 is shielded and the shield I only connect to main plug.

If your amps have an earth pin on the IEC inlet, you need to add a ground wire, min. 4.5sqmm, which I run on the outside around the cable.

It is a PVC insulated standard stranded industrial cable. Connected to good power plugs and giving it more time to burn in, you can get a really good performing power cord at a very low price.

The cable costs just 5-10€/m + plugs.

Since the wires are multi-strands, it sounds more “airy” than solid core, but not as tight as the OCC solid core. (After min 200h burn-in; I put them 2 week on my fridge before I put them in my stereo)

I use these on my HT Receiver and like them more than the Helix PCs in this application because of its “Shielded”design and the “filtering” effect.

Best IEC plugs would be FIM (not available any more), or SonarQuest silver.

@willgolf - WRT the hum you experienced using the Helix Power Cables...

Several years ago an acquaintance experienced a serious issue with his amp after installing a high quality power cable. It seemed that the more conventional power cables did not cause the problem, but it turns out that the "root cause" of his problem was actually his speaker cables and not the power cable

When @aniwolfe told me about your problem I did some digging and found this link which "could’ provide and explanation for the Hum you experienced...
Two Types of Tube Amplifier Hum and How to Determine the Source - YouTube

Yours is the first case I have heard about where the Helix Power cables has caused some problem.

Perhaps the Helix PC's simply exacerbated an issue with one or more of the tubes?

Regardless, replacing the Helix PC is probably the easiest option.

But I thought it was worth mentioning

Regards - Steve

@wig ’s observations regarding his upgrade of the Neutral on his power cables got the old grey-matter going - once again...

I just happened to have some 12 gauge bare Neotech UP-OCC laying around from one of my previous upgrades, so I decided to use it to see what impact it would have if I used the it for the NEUTRAL wires in my DIY Power Distribution Box.

This box is a very simple design - just three MRI grade outlets with a mini breaker and a couple of on/off switches - it is used only to distribute power to my source components

The existing wires

• live - 12 gauge solid Neotech with Teflon - approx 20" long
• neutral - 12 gauge silver plated Mil-Spec - approx 10" long

I simply replaced the neutral only with the bare 12 gauge inside a PVC tube - so basically I incorporated the "Air" adaption as well

But when I listened - just as @wig observed - I could not believe what I was hearing.

• improved clarity and even more details - just wonderful articulation
• improved bass texture details and depth
• improved dynamics
• an image that is more detailed and spacious

All this right from the get-go.

One of my favorite types of audition music is the Church Pipe Organ, because of the subtle nuances of the upper register pipes, to the more startling bass tones.
I have a few pieces recorded in large cathedrals using dual high quality microphones only, which I find are just amazing to listen to.

But I was not quite ready for what I was about to hear...

This simple little upgrade now conveys the true (massive) character of this wonderful instrument.

• the truly amazing "wall of sound" that conveys the grandeur of the cathedral setting
• the stunning dynamics and details from the bass pipes through to the upper registers
• the vibration of those massive bass pipes - it was like someone shaking you
• and the separation between the various sections of "pipe voices" spread across the image

After experiencing how much more difficult upgrading the 16 gauge neutral on the Interconnects were, I decided I did not want to "wrestle" with replacing a 12 gauge neutral on my PC’s

So now I eagerly await the arrival of the 12 gauge Neotech stranded UP-OCC for a PC Upgrade - later this week.

As always - I will reports back on this upgrade also

So what started out as a seemingly "insignificant upgrade" i.e. to put some spare quality wire to good use
- it appears that it doesn’t matter how long the wire is
- upgrading to UP-OCC always pays off

Regards - Steve.

@ williewonka

That's awesome and knew the RCA would have a positive effect as it was very noticeable on my PC.

Wig : )

@willgolf - You might want to take a look at Inakustik power cables. They are very good.

I did converse with @aniwolfe about your Helix problem and I could not think of what might be causing that issue. It remains a mystery.

If you are looking for a DIY solution then I would suggest this bulk wire
Furutech FP-TCS31 PC-Triple C Power Cable - VH Audio

The copper used is very similar to UP-OCC copper and will provide similar benefits.

Hope that helps - Steve

@aniwolfe - I had thought about that also.

I’m just not "certain" how much benefit will be realized for a wire that costs more than twice the price of the Mil-Spec - would the benefits be marginal?

Another more affordable option is he UP-OCC stranded with the PVC insulation

The same approach could be applied to the speaker cables as well.

I’ll try the stranded on a couple of PC’s and find out.

But this latest adaption was definitely worth it

Regards - Steve

I went about replacing all of my PC's.  Unfortunately, they did not work for my grand canary reference mono amps as there was a loud hum.  I was really hoping that all my power cords would be the same so it would be easier to hear the performance in totality. I currently have Kimber Kable from my mono amps. Does anyone have a suggestion for my mono amps that might work well in conjunction with all of my helix power cords?

@williewonka 

What about using Neotech Stranded instead of the Solid Core for the Neutral (Helix Coil)?

So following on @wig 's experience with replacing the Mil-spec wire with the UP-OCC solid copper on his PC's, I decided to try the something similar by replacing the Mil-Spec neutral of my interconnects with a single strand of  Neoteech16 gauge UP-OCC solid copper with Teflon insulation.

And at this point I would like to applaud Wig for tackling a mains cables, because the 16 gauge was much more difficult to fabricate than the mil-spec - I cannot imagine how difficult the 12 gauge was.

But the reward in this case was also stunning

• much better separation of the various artists that provided a significant improvement in details
• a little improvement in image width, but a significant improvement in image depth and  artist isolation
• improved venue acoustics details
• much more punchy dynamics
• overall - a more full bodied presentation
• stunning harmonics from grand piano
• more whispery textures on vocals

And all of this before burning the cables in - however the signal wire and RCA's already had a few hundred hours on them.

All in all a worthwhile upgrade.:-)

I might try the power cables next, because my two main PC's are only about 27" long, so they should be easier to fabricate than some of my longer cables.

I'm also thinking of applying the "Air" adaption to the neutral as well.

Should be - "fun"? LOL

Regards - Steve

I will keep the Thread Posted on how I progress and the Wire Materials being used.
At present the intention is to produce a full PC TripleC 'IC' with OCC Copper RCA Connectors  

@pindac - I took a look at the details on the  PC Triple C Power Cable from Furutech and the granular structure of the copper wire they use (as a result of their "forging process")  looks very similar to the granular structure of the copper produced via the OCC process.

So if the wire you have ordered to build the Helix cables is UP-OCC copper it will be interesting to hear your observations between the two.

Keep us updated

I recently Purchased Plugs to connect to the PC Triple C Power Cables.
In the past week I have been using the Cable on a CDT , DAC and a Phonostage.
Each Device that has had the Power Cable attached had presented in a much more attractive manner.

The Room is being percieved as being more voluminous in the Soundstage Presented, as if a Ballon has been given quite a few extra pumps of inflation. 

Helix Cable Materials are not too far of being delivered.     

Thanks and agree! 

@ grannyring

I used solid core and once placed in their spot, I don’t move them but if my components were in a cabinet or very difficult accessing the rear of the equipment or if I move equipment often, I would definitely recommend the stranded wire.

Wig

Did you use stranded or solid core? Solid core is very, very stiff! Not sure if solid core is the safest to use long term if one moves cables a bit.  

@ williewonka

I finally made the decision to order some Neotech 12 Ga OCC Copper Wire to replace the Neutral Mil-Spec Wire in my PC and I wasn’t prepared to hear this unbelievable change… The first thing I noticed was complete blackness/lowering of floor noise, much better channel separation, depth, more body/texture with images being more vibrant and articulate.

I’m still shaking my head as my speakers before were “chameleon” but with the Neotech upgrade, my speakers are not there and the sound is more “vinyl-like” and this is with zero hours on the cables. I converted my dual 12 Ga Mil-Spec wire to a single Neotech 12Ga OCC Copper and this wire is robust.

If you convert your current DIY Helix Cables to Neotech, I recommend removing the neutral from your current cables first and coiling the remainder of the cabling around the Neotech OCC Wire that’s on a rod and sufficiently spaced; the longer the rod, the better but 6+ feet would be good depending on the length of you PC.

Again, the change was so amazing that I converted ALL 5 of my DIY Helix PC to a single Neotech 12Ga OCC Copper Neutral Wire totaling $325!

Wig : )

@wig - did you try the cables with the UP-OCC copper neutral on your main rig yet?

And the verdict?

I am very interested to hear if there were noticeable improvements over the silver coated Mil-Spec neutral version

Cheers - Steve

I have started to Purchase the Wire to produce my first Cables.
I have the 0.9mm PC Triple C Solid Core as part of this order.
It will seem that I am deviating a little from the recommended wire in the cable build posts, but the spirit of investigation is intact.

I also now own regular build PC Triple C IC's that are to be delivered,
along with already mentioned regular build D.U.C.C IC's 

I have also purchased a IEC and UK Mains Plug that can take Crimped Spade Terminations used on the Wire.
My Nanotec Strada 308 PC Triple C Cable can now be compared to two other Power Cables and the Helix Power Cable when it is produced.

I have an inquiry, does anybody know how long a cable is submerged into a Cryogenic Tank and how the process is carried out to return it to a normal temperature ?

I live in a area where there are few Horse Breeding Studs and AI is a common used method for impregnation, hence Cryogenic Tank usage might be able to be achieved.  

@in_shore - RE: not connecting the ground...

My personal view...

1. if there is a ground pin on the IEC socket of a component then the component has been designed in such a way that in the event of some kind of internal failure then the user will be protected
2. in such cases, the ground SHOULD NOT be disabled in any way
3. If there is NO ground pin then having the ground wire in the cables makes no difference.
4. I believe it may contravene electrical codes
5. it is certainly the first place an investigator will look

I realize this is a favorite method of many audiophiles to eliminate noise that is often referred too as "ground loop hum",

More often than not, this problem arises when you combine certain components...
e.g. amps that have a grounded power cable - with other components that DO NOT have a grounded power cable.

Components with Wal-Wart power supplies are prone to this problem

e.g. I have a Bluesound Node 2 (ungrounded) and a Simaudio Moon phono stage (grounded)

• If I only connect the Node 2 to my amp I get a hum
• if I then attach the phono stage the hum goes away
• this is because the neutral side of "the system" is actually grounded via the phono stage
• this approach is used in many amp designs

This is a common problem, so if I ONLY want to use the Node 2 and NOT have the hum, I have a little wire lead that I attach to the NEUTRAL of any UNUSED INPUT on the amp and the ground pin of the mains supply.
- VOILA! - no more hum

This effectively ensures the neutral side of the circuits in ALL connected components are now at ZERO volts - where they theoretically should be

I came across this issue about 12 years ago when I purchased a NAIM amp. Turns out the circuits in NAIM amps are designed to "ground" via their source components.
I investigated my source that caused the problem and found a small voltage on the neutral side of the components circuit
- it was NOT at zero volts relative to the mains ground
- grounding the neutral solved the problem

PLEASE NOTE: this solution IS NOT a remedy for all hums
- some hums can be caused by circuit malfunctions or imbalances.

e.g. I recently saw a video that demonstrated how a seemingly good tube from one manufacturer caused a severe hum in an amp.
Please note - The solution above would not fix this issue.

Apologies for the long post - I like to provide context :-)

Regards - Steve

Some power cord manufacturers for example Audio Envy do not connect the ground on their IEC end power cord for a source component , what are your thoughts on this and has anyone here done this ? 

@ williewonka

Yes, bare wire inside teflon tube but new build with wires and connectors.

My secondary system allows me to accumulate many hours 24/7 as my primary system is all tube based and only listen 3-4 a day.

Wig 👍

@wig  - did you use bare wire inside the teflon tube?

I found that using the bare wire in Teflon tubes did not require anywhere near as much burn in as the wire with insulation, but then the connectors and neutral wires were already well used, so that may have something to do with it

Regards

Updated Helix Air Speaker Cable version contains 2-12 ga Milspec on negative and 2 runs of 16 ga Neotech OCC solid copper on positive and outfitted with Techflex...

Wig 😁

@ williewonka 

They will come off the cooker tonight and on to my secondary system for about 4 days before placing in primary system.

I did listen briefly to them after the build and can report that they are more resolving and vibrant sounding 😁

Wig 😎

@wig  - nice looking cables - but how do they sound???

Better than you previous Helix Cables ?
How much better?
What changed?

Don't just leave us in suspense - LOL

Thanks for the update :-)

Updated Air Helix Speaker Cables!

All-Tubes - Virtual Systems (audiogon.com)

Wig

Thank you Steve, appreciate the help.

@Luisma31 - From what I have read the Atma-Shere amps appear to be  Balanced Differential Design, which means the HELIX Speaker cables WILL NOT perform their best when connected to these amps.

As suggest in an earlier post for another member, you could make two UP-OCC bare conductors in Teflon tube that follow the Air adaption on my web site

This gives you the benefit of conductors that effectively has Air as their dielectric, which translates to improved clarity, dynamics and imaging

How to construct a prototype...

1. Go to the dollar store and buy some children's alphabet blocks
2. Go to the hardware store and buy some little screw-in ring eyelets
3. screw one in each side of the block - it will space the two wires
4. Follow the instruction on my site for the Air adaption of the signal wire for speaker cables
5. thread the two wires through the eyelets to maintain a gap between the two conductors
6. I would still use the KLE Innovations Banana plugs
7. Connect to the system and enjoy

You can build a more "professional" spacer one the concept is proven 

If you would like a more detailed info please contact me via the email address on my web site

Regards - Steve

@williewonka

These amplifiers adopt a completely "balanced" design approach in that the speaker outputs have a +ve and -ve terminal

Nice posting Steve, after trying many cables on my Atmasphere mono amps and preamp rig over the last few years I realized cables wouldn't really make much difference on it. Which is what Ralph have been saying for decades about the cable colorations in true balanced equipment.

Now I don't know if the speaker outputs are also balanced on Atmasphere equipment but trying different speaker cables (of normal length 4 to 9 ft and normal typical gauge 10 to 16) doesn't make much difference either. I believe the sauce that makes the whole chain impervious to colorations is upstream.

But thank you all for posting, following your notes I will give the Helix a try.

@mawe - #3 is correct - BUT #1 should be UP-OCC Silver - thanks for brining it to my attention :-)

Here’s the correct list - and I’ve deleted the post with the mistake
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had not seen IACS rating for UP-OCC metals before, so I thought I would post this list of all metals commonly used in audio products

Electrical Conductivity or IACS rating

• International Annealed Copper Standard
• where Tough Pitch copper is the benchmark at 100%

The IACS rating (i.e. conductivity) for the best conductors are

1. UP-OCC Silver - 107%
2. Pure Silver - 105%
3. UP-OCC copper - 103%
4. OFC Copper - 101%
5. Pure copper (aka Tough Pitch) - 100%

Please Note: the values above may vary slightly depending on the source

Other metals frequently used in audio applications for plating...

• Gold - 70%
• Rhodium - 39%
• Nickel - 24%
• Platinum - 16%

When use for plating, these metals require a substrate plating material to be placed on the copper first.

However - Silver is the only metal that can be plated directly onto copper without degrading performance

Other copper alloys most used, especially for pins in Connectors of all types...

• Tellurium Copper - 93 %
• Beryllium Copper - 45%
• Brass - 26%-27%
• Bronze - 15%-19%

Hope this clarifies yet another part of the cables puzzle

Regards - Steve

Steve
I think no 3. you meant UP-OFC ??