Don’t buy used McCormack DNA 1990s amps

After 25 - 30 years, ANY amp can fail, go out of spec, or just not perform as well as new. The pricing people are asking on equipment this old is ridiculous, but as always, buyer beware. HNY. My best, MrD. 

I suspect this is heading way deep into proprietary business issues.  Since C-J acquired McCormack, it would seem that any notifications about the equipment would be the responsibility of C-J and likewise any sharing of equipment schematics would be their prerogative.  

My (perhaps ill-advised) comment earlier in this thread saying "unless the amps are blowing up and houses are burning down" was clearly intended as tongue-in-cheek to illustrate that IMO the OP was a little over the top in his message.  Hopefully, that did not prompt anyone to believe there was an actual safety issue with the input boards.  SMc worked on a DNA-2 LAE that I owned and at no time did I hear anything about a safety issue.  In the case of my DNA-2, I had a full upgrade performed so the failed input board was replaced as part of a larger project.  The decision to spend the money to replace only the input board without further upgrades would obviously vary from owner to owner.

If anyone has service questions, they could visit the McCormack Audio website, where they can find the following message:

McCormack Audio has suspended production of all McCormack brand products and has no remaining inventory.
Service for McCormack products, including model and capacitor upgrades continues to be offered through our sister company, conrad-johnson design, inc.
For more information on service and upgrades of McCormack products, please contact us by email at service@mccormackaudio.com, or by phone at 703-698-8581 

@mitch2

I believe you guys are making assumptions based on facts not in evidence, and unfairly casting SMc Audio in a negative light.  If you know Steve and Patrick, you would also know that there are not many folks in the audio industry who care as much about the satisfaction of their customers as they do, and you would also know that they have had more than a steady flow of work for years now.  Steve continues to move forward with new products benefiting from his 40+ years in the business and, for him, creating high quality audio playback equipment is clearly as much or more a calling than a business.  SMc certainly do not need to add clients by fear-mongering owners of old amplifiers manufactured by the former McCormack Audio into taking action before the inevitable failure of their amplifier's input boards. 

I do agree with you that most of us have no direct dealings with S. McCormack or Patrick and as such we are just making assumptions based on the facts we can see from our limited interactions (email) or reading of the direct interactions that customers like you have had. As such we may be making the wrong assumption. 

The one thing that bothers me in this current situation is the fact the SMc has stopped giving the schematics out for the old 1990's DNA amps to owners/techs interested in servicing them. If you do a bit of searching you'll find where Steve was noted as being quite open to supplying the schematics to folks for a number of years and that has stopped. I also talked with Conrad Johnson and they will also not supply the schematics, but I kind of expected that as CJ bought the rights to those McCormack amps >20yrs ago.

Because these schematics were at one time given out that tells me that Steve didn't consider them proprietary back then, so that wouldn't have changed. If he's worried about the safety factor of these amps then he should've put out a service bulletin and supplied a replacement input board at a reasonable cost many years ago because some of these amps input boards failed early on back 20+ yrs ago. Irregardless, in the interest of safety if that's what SMc is worried about, a large red lettered addendum on the front page of the service manual could be added stating the fact that the amps with input board problems should be considered due for board replacement and should not be repaired.

There are plenty of qualified technical people out there that are capable of servicing these amps. The thing is that many techs will not touch an amp if they cannot get the schematic. The reason is that the amount of labor/time goes up dramatically when you're working on a piece of electronics without a schematic.

BTW, To anyone interested. CJ will still service the DNA amps. When I asked them for the schematics I was given a quote for a full recap and a replacement of the input board.

@soix Didn’t imply that you started the thread to profit. If you read my response and interpreted it as such, you misunderstood my post. 

Contrary to the possible intent, it does no one any favors.

@audphile1 First, let me be clear I have no business relationship with SMcAudio other than having them upgrade my amp, and implying that was why I made this post is way off base and insulting.  And I couldn’t disagree more that this post does no one any favors.  If I’m buying a used amp from someone I sure as hell would wanna know if it’s got a good chance of failing and that there’s little chance you’ll find anyone else out there to try to fix the board.  Now, if someone knows this info going in and decides to buy a 1990s DNA amp that’s their choice, but at least they’re going in with their eyes wide open and THAT was my main reason for starting this thread.  My amp failed, and there have been several other non-working DNA 0.5 and 1 amps being sold solely for parts and there surely will be many more just due to the design of the board and time.  Sorry if I maybe could’ve worded this post differently, but make no mistake the intent behind it was purely to be helpful as these amps come up for sale fairly frequently.  

@mitch2 that’s my point exactly. This thread is a gross exaggeration of an issue that may or may not happen. Contrary to the possible intent, it does no one any favors.

@audphile1 

I am certainly good with respectful disagreement.  We need more of that around here.

I understand your examples and hear your skepticism but I have been a customer of Steve's now for over 10 years and while I agree with your assessment of his design capabilities, I also believe he is a genuinely good person and I have seen that evidence first hand through working on several projects with him and Patrick, and particularly as we went through the frustration of one project that wasn't a home run initially.  Secondly, he and Patrick have been basically swamped with work for the over 10 years I have conversed with them, and they simply don't need the additional volume of work. 

I do not know why @soix has chosen to inflate the board issue to the point where people think SMc put him up to it in order to generate projects.  IMO, the best thing is to look at Steve McCormack’s own words provided in the message posted earlier in this thread by @soix .  The posted message from Steve provides a factual representation of the input board issue and states SMc’s position based on their first-hand experience working on many McCormack amplifiers, including the reason for the issue, which amplifiers are affected, which are not affected, the risks of problems recurring after a "repair" job, an explanation of why they no longer perform input board repairs, and the reason why a more permanent repair using new boards is costly.  Steve didn't say nobody could repair amplifiers affected with the board issue, @soix ad-libbed that part:

“when it fails your amp is dead and not repairable by anyone — not even SMcAudio,”

Steve did say SMc no longer does the repairs because of the high rate of post-repair failure, which is apparently a business decision that benefits both SMc and their customers. 

I believe you guys are making assumptions based on facts not in evidence and unfairly casting SMc Audio in a negative light.
 

@mitch2 

I respectfully disagree. I think Steve is a brilliant designer and I stated my admiration for his amplifiers (sans the modded 225).

However, the manner in which the information here and in another post was delivered and broadcasted by @soix who apparently had more than one conversation with Steve/SMc Audio and in one way or another was given explicit or implicit consent to go on with it, led me to think there’s vested interested involved. I am not accusing anyone of trying to run a business and make a living. But I do have a problem with the nature of OP’s two threads (one targeting specific classified was already removed).

@audphile1 

looks like you’ve taken on a function of being a proxy for SMc Audio to deliver a message of vested interest.

@kchamber 

If you do not understand that there may be a possible motivation of profit behind SMc telling people that their original amps input boards are not repairable then I do not know what to tell you.

I believe you guys are making assumptions based on facts not in evidence, and unfairly casting SMc Audio in a negative light.  If you know Steve and Patrick, you would also know that there are not many folks in the audio industry who care as much about the satisfaction of their customers as they do, and you would also know that they have had more than a steady flow of work for years now.  Steve continues to move forward with new products benefiting from his 40+ years in the business and, for him, creating high quality audio playback equipment is clearly as much or more a calling than a business.  SMc certainly do not need to add clients by fear-mongering owners of old amplifiers manufactured by the former McCormack Audio into taking action before the inevitable failure of their amplifier's input boards. 

IMO, the presentation of the OP was a bit over the top, with the whole "public service announcement", calling sellers of McCormack amps "yahoos", and then basically laying a turd on anyone who is trying to sell their McCormack amplifier.  Thanks for the warning, old stuff fails, shocker.  It seems in at least some cases, repairs are possible and unless the amps are blowing up and houses are burning down it would probably be sufficient to simply say "be aware, this could be a problem."

I suspect SMc's responses to some owners of the failed McCormack amps are similar to the analogy of how many patches do you want to put on an old bicycle inner tube?  At some point, taking the wheel and tire off and the work required to patch the tube is simply not worth the effort any more.  That doesn't mean it can't be done and it doesn't mean that the fifth or sixth patch will not hold for a year instead of a week, but the odds are against you.  In addition, patching failed input boards may simply not be aligned with SMc Audio's business plan, which includes performing high quality equipment upgrades of former McCormack Audio electronics and developing/manufacturing new products that make their customers happy.  However, as discussed in some of the posts, there are others who can make the repairs.

There are also some people who can make their own circuit boards, some of them look to be of decent quality.

@soix

If you had any technical knowledge on electronics then you’d know that you do NOT have to build the exact same piece of electronics to understand the location and nature behind a failure. Especially when that failure is a mechanical issue in the basic board itself.

SMc isn’t saying there are deficiencies in their special top secret circuit design and they had to change this design. SMc is saying the basic board has mechanical problems. Manufacturers like SMc do not produce their own boards, they get PCB manufacturers to produce them. Whether that board is in a Kenwood, Marantz, Krell, McCormack, etc. most are from the same PCB manufacturers and run side by side on the same production line using the same processes. So anyone who has worked on repairing boards in electronics is qualified to make these statements about the repair of such.

Tell u what — I’ll go back to the guys WHO ACTUALLY BUILT THE AMP and tell you why you’re absolutely wrong..

If you do not understand that there may be a possible motivation of profit behind SMc telling people that their original amps input boards are not repairable then I do not know what to tell you. So yes, please do keep asking the fox to tend to the hen house. When you talk to SMc ask them to come onto this thread and post closeup images of the mechanical issues on these completely irreparable input boards. Certainly SMc has documented this issue many times over. There are other folks on this thread that seem knowledgeable about board repairs and I’m sure that they would like to see high resolution images of the failures too.

Your initial post reads as a person who needs to justify the expense of this purchase and is angry that others can still sell their functioning amps for a decent price.

So lets address your initial all or nothing statements,

While they’re great amps, and I happily owned a DNA 0.5 RevA for 20 years, they’re all gonna fatally fail.

No ALL DNA amps are not going to fatally fail, not by a long shot. Whether the number that survives a decade from now is my butt number of 50% or not, your statement is extreme and ridiculous. I personally believe that number will prove to be much higher than 50% and will probably be better than say a Krell or Levinson of the same vintage. BTW There’s a very good way to judge this reliability. When you begin to see far more dead DNA amp’s than working units for sale on the common audio sale sites then you can surmise that extremely high failure rates are present. I mean, based on your own opening statement, they cannot be repaired right? So they’ll remain dead until they’re sent to SMc to be upgraded or they’ll be sold as dead units and if they’ve been upgraded by SMc then the sales ad will state this fact.

Because their input board is at the end of its useful life, and when it fails your amp is dead and not repairable by anyone — not even SMcAudio. It’s a boat anchor.

Other’s have already pointed out your error in this statement. Unless a board has been completely burnt to the point it becomes conductive then it is generally repairable. However, I’ve seen boards that had burnt sections and people cut out the burnt section and P2P wired in that portion of the circuit. I’ve seen double-sided boards that literally snapped into two pieces and the tech repaired them by rebuilding each individual trace with a solid joining wire soldered to the traces and in the end creating a stronger board. In the end, whether or not a unit is repairable most of the time depends on the amount of a time and effort a tech wants to put into that unit. I’ve personally worked on a number of components over the years from the 1960’s and 70’s that had far more delicate and easily damaged circuit boards in them than the DNA input boards.

@nymarty I would direct the funds towards a purchase of a new amp and noy have the old DNA modded. 
 

@soix looks like you’ve taken on a function of being a proxy for SMc Audio to deliver a message of vested interest. No one can possibly predict when the amplifier is going to fail and I don’t recall reading much about these amps becoming boat anchors all of a sudden. 

I’ve owned DNA-0.5, DNA-125 (a good step up over the original 0.5) and the DNA-225 (amazing amplifier, one of my favorites in its stock form even to this day) that I decided to send in for a Gold revision which was a big mistake. The sonic signature changes that occurred with the revision made the amplifier pretty much go from a jaw dropping performance to being unlistenable in my system. And yes I gave it all the break in it needed. This was back in 2006 and around the time I sold that amp the revised McCormack amps would pop up on the market quiet frequently. I also saw “my” DNA-225 come up on audiogon classifieds at least 3 times (could be more but I as well as my audio buddies just stopped paying attention to McCormack amps). 

You're correct I pulled that number out of my butt, using nothing but my 35yrs of experience designing and working on electronics in semiconductor manufacturing and research.
 

Yes, you pulled that number outta your butt.  But you don’t have 35 years working with McCormack amps, nor did you design or build them.  I’m spreading info from the guys WHO ACTUALLY BUILT THE AMPS.  Tell u what — I’ll go back to the guys WHO ACTUALLY BUILT THE AMP and tell you why you’re absolutely wrong..  

@fsonicsmith1 

I'm located near Dallas. I mainly do work for local audiophiles because I work as a research engineer M - F so this audio work is done in my spare time. I do some work on Acurus and Aragon preamps for folks around the country. I have a set of specific upgrades for those preamps. I used to take in various amps from people around the country but it became too much for me to keep up with so I had to stop taking in amps. I now only accept amps from local audiophiles. I have a full array of test equipment and can fully test amps up to over 1000WPC on my bench using an Audio Precision analyzer.

@soix 

You're correct I pulled that number out of my butt, using nothing but my 35yrs of experience designing and working on electronics in semiconductor manufacturing and research.

Guess what? Krell & Levinson amps of the same vintage are also very failure prone. In fact, probably more so for some models due to heat stress. The people buying those 30yr old amps for kilobucks do not seem to care? Does that make you angry too?

Anyone that is really concerned about one of these DNA amps failing should invest in having a true DC protection circuit installed by a competent tech. That includes the new input boards that SMc is selling because they do not have true DC output protection either. The DC protection in the older DNA amps is only an input muting circuit.

@soix 

Convinced of your belief, you are being harsh and extreme, IME. You also have no basis to claim the converse-that every 1990's McCormack amp has either failed or is on the verge of failing. IMO, kchamber's viewpoint is likely more realistic. I can not think of too many consumer products that have had a 100% failure rate, not even the dreaded Yugo. 

However, I’d be willing to bet that 50% or more of them will still be kicking with their original input boards 10 years from now.

@kchamber You’d be willing to bet based on what? Faith? Other people’s money? Where does 50% even come from? Outta your butt? You’re willing to “bet” means precisely ZERO to someone buying one of these amps. And by the way, who wants to buy an amp with a 50% failure rate even if you’re right, which you probably are not. The design is prone to failure, especially after 20+ years for the reasons stated by the guys who built the amps, which is not you. Period.

@kchamber 

Thanks for the great post. Please stick around for more on this thread or others. Do you still perform repairs for others? Mind telling us a little more about your background and where you are located?

@nymarty Sorry to undermine the potential sale of your amp and glad your is still working!  And yes, I’ll let you know my thoughts on the amp once I get some hours on her.  
As promised, here’s the reply from SMcAudio on the input board issue…

The through-hole plating issue is a global issue with the driver pcbs for DNA-1, DNA-0.5, HT-1, HT-3, DNA-2 and ALD-1.  It affects the power supply, driver stages and protection circuit on the PCB.

  It is a real problem that caused us and our customers lots of grief as odd failures were repaired only to have a different odd failure crop up weeks or months later. Attempting to repair these boards reliably becomes an expensive game of Wack-A-Mole and often results in solder doing the job of carrying power and signal instead of copper which sounds bad and isn’t reliable.

 The issue does not affect the output PCBs of these listed amps nor do they affect the Virginia Series amplifiers such as the DNA-125, and DNA-225 because these amps only have plating on one side of the PCB (so through-hole plating issues will never be a problem)

 We made the decision in late 2014 to no longer work on these boards and made a replacement PCB that eliminates the potential of plating issues (better PCB material, much heavier plating and redundant vias where necessary)

These PCBs are superior in everyway and have proven to be exceptionally reliable and they incorporate the 20 years of mods and revisions that SMc Audio has developed however the replacement PCB is not a drop-in replacement and requires additional work on the amplifier.

 Hope this helps.  People can always give us a call if they’d like to.

@soix in response to your initial post. You're being extreme. All DNA amplifiers are not doomed to failure. Do original amps have a much higher failure rate than normal, probably so. However, I'd be willing to bet that 50% or more of them will still be kicking with their original input boards 10 years from now. Being that this is the internet you're going to hear more about failed units than about those that are still working because people go out in search of help when they fail.

I've worked on a couple of DNA-1's recently. They had clearly different manufacturers of the input boards, but the actual layout was identical. One I worked on was a full upgrade on a late model, circa 1997 or 1998, DNA1 Deluxe for a local audiophile. The other was a dead early model that I picked up off of Ebay and have since fixed and fully upgraded including the "C" mod. There are some problems with the input boards and the construction of them. If you have one and take a look at the few IC's on the input board you'll notice that the solder didn't flow through to the top side of the board and up on the legs of those IC's on the board. This is a big issue on the pins that have through-hole connections because those pins can lose contact eventually.

I contacted SMc Audio a while back asking for schematics for the amps and, in addition to saying no to giving me a schematic, they pretty much confirmed my observations. Here is what I was told "The problem is with the through-hole plating between the top and bottom copper layers of these two sided driver boards and attempts to repair them is not recommended or supported." 

All holes on the boards are not considered through-hole. Only about maybe 20% of them are. Through-hole is when a signal comes in on one side of the board and travels through the plated hole and then travels out the opposite side of the board to a different component on the board. Through-hole issues can be corrected and overcome. Its a lot of labor to do so, but the faults are not irreversible. Through hole connections need to have a solid solder connection on both the top and bottom of the hole. When these boards are upgraded care needs to be taken to offset the new capacitors about 1/4" off the board and apply solder to the leads on both sides of the board to make a solid and long lasting connection. 

I think its not a stretch to say that the impetus for the "C" mod initially was to eliminate the AD712 opamps that were driving the DC servo in the DNA amps because of failures. The reason was that if a through hole failure occurred due to a poor solder joint on one of these 2 servo opamps then the servo could drive the output into a heavy DC situation and smoke the speakers. Pulling the servo op amp and installing a manually adjusted DC offset trimmer (aka "C" mod) into the same location basically solves this issue. So IMO the C-mod was a reliability upgrade and not necessarily a sonic improvement. The DC servo works great, when its working properly.

I would ask how many of the amps that SMc upgraded from the late 90's up until about 2014 have failed? In those years SMc was upgrading the stock input pcb's. Has anyone heard of one of those amps failing? Probably not, because the stock amps were already randomly failing back then so Steve implemented fixes for some of the issues he was seeing. However, SMc is now selling a new product to go into your old DNA chassis. Its not easy to sell that new product if the old parts are repairable and if you were happy with how the amp sounded before. How many people would pay $2k+ (I've heard of costs approaching $4k for some) when they might pay $500 - $600 to just get it repaired and not just functional but more reliable than it was and sounding just as good as it did prior?

Thanks @soix !  How am I supposed to sell my DNA-1 now?  I was banking on some poor unsuspecting audiophile to overspend on my 25+ year old amp and that will never happen now.  All joking aside though, it's still a really good amp and I'm caught between having SMC do the full upgrade or take that money and invest in a new amp.  I sometimes listen to the DNA-1 but more often use Belles Aria monoblocks.  They don't go as deep as the DNA-1 but they are a little better at the top end and in the midrange - at least to my ears in my room in my system.  I also got to spend some time with Orchard Audio's Starkrimson Ultra GaNfet amp and that was a great combo of what I like about my old DNA-1 and the newer Belles.  At some point soon, I'll make the decision to either go SMC upgrade or buy a new amp (either class A/AB or D).  I'm looking forward to learning more about your experience with your upgrade and what you think.   Thanks.

This amp is history MOVE ON!!

To Steve McCormack's change of mind on upgrading power cords. I upgraded the power cord on the upgraded DNA 0.5 based on the advice of his colleague Pat. Pat had a serious focus on the importance of the electrical path. That's why I've tried to move all critical components to higher quality audio cabling: DC, AC, Ethernet. One of the services SMcAudio provides is "burning" in of power cables, which they did on several for me. And built a better cable to replace the one that came with the Node 2i.

Mitch2, I sold my TLC back to SMc at the end of 2020. Could be it's my old one. I'm sure you're very pleased. Like I said, I still have some regrets giving it up, though I'm not sure if it would have added much to my system since I'm only using one source; digital.

Fsonicsmith, I love the photo. When I was listening to equipment at Progressive, Scott was the person I worked with. He was great to work with; no pressure and knew his stuff. And I found all the other staff I interacted with there to be great! And I didn't start working in Dublin till 1991, so not much chance we met. I was sorry when I found out Progressive had shut down. They were one of the best Audio stores in the whole Midwest!

@dmader48 

"By the way, I decided to let go of the TLC. Pat had clients who were eager for it and so I sold it to SMcAudio for $450; a fair deal. Now some other lucky person has an upgraded TLC which I'm sure makes them very pleased!!" 

When did you turn the TLC over to SMc?   I might be that lucky person.  SMc did the full monty upgrade on a TLC-1 that I purchased from them some years ago.  It is the black one pictured in the middle of the stack of upgraded equipment on their home page.  Steve said my upgraded SMc TLC-1 Signature Edition sounds "very close to the VRE-1 preamp." and I am not surprised.  

@soix I was responding to you original post "Because their input board is at the end of its useful life, and when it fails your amp is dead and not repairable by anyone — not even SMcAudio."  But I am always available to help anyone who needs repair, upgrade, modification or if someone needs something build for them.

Happy Listening.

@soix I wouldn't think twice about having had your amp rebuilt by SMC.   What could be finer than to have what is essentially a brand new amp with all new, better and modern parts installed by your amps original maker?  I don't actually know why you would even think otherwise.

In fact, I had my original Museatex Meitner mono amps rebuilt exactly the same way by a person who worked with Meitner, only the case and transformer were reused.  I love it.  One of the monos had failed.

And Happy New Year!

@fsonicsmith Very interesting about the power cord thing, and what a classic pic of The Speaker Company!!!

@soix - you cannot say that the board cannot be repaired by anyone.  Do you do repair work yourself?  Any product can be repaired unless the parts cannot be identified or there are no replacement parts available.  That being said, you do not have to get a new board made, you can simply made the part point-to-point wired and get rid of the board altogether.  But you need a competent repair person like we do.

@bigkidz Due respect for your skills and knowledge that I’ll never have, but I don’t think I said the board couldn’t be repaired by anyone.  In fact, Pat told me people had repaired them by soldering in the “cracks” in the board but that the board would just fail soon after as other “cracks” appeared.  The point-to-point solution makes a ton of sense to me, and had I’d known you could do such a thing I’d surely have contacted you, but what would such a repair cost?  Whatever input board SMcAudio uses in their upgrades should last 30+ years along with all the other parts upgrades and Gravity Base I got with the rebuild.  Sounds like you think I did the wrong thing, so just wondering what my other options would’ve been or what you would’ve done?  Very honestly curious of your thoughts. 

@dmader48 

I bet we either know each other or know of people in common. I went to tOSU from '78 to '84 for both undergrad and law school. As I bet you know, Scott, the owner and founder of the store started out selling speaker building kits in the nearby alley of 13th at High St. I have fond memories of just going to look and listen in awe of the some the mega-priced gear. Robert was always on the phone behind the counter at the back but always treated me respectfully and gave good advice. Scott was super-amiable too. Some of the other employees not so much but I did not have the funds for the high priced stuff back then (or now :-) ). 

Btw, I bought the passive McC preamp at the same time I bought the DNA.5 Deluxe and it was the first to go in my system, soon replaced by an Audioprism Mantissa tubed preamp that I bought a Progressive. Progressive did not normally sell Audioprism gear but Robert said "no problem" and ordered one to sell me. I will never forget that he was curious to hear the Mantissa and inserted it into one of the upstairs systems with uber-priced gear. He listened for less than three minutes and announced "sounds hi-fi" in a dismissive tone and walked out of the room. I loved the Mantissa anyway and it remained my preamp for about twenty years. It mated very well with the DNA.5 "Full Monty". 

AND, I vividly remember having long telephone conversations with Steve McC and in one of them he told me that he did not believe after-market power cords could possibly make a difference. Back then they were not common. I sent him one my LAT PC's to try and he called me to tell me he had changed his mind. 

If anyone has a dead McCormack DNA-1 (the original one, not from the Conrad-Johnson era), I will pay cash for a reasonable/fair selling price ($500?)! I need the housing/chassis for a rebuild by SMc. I should never have sold mine to SMc when it died—live and learn, painfully.

I too bought my McCormack DNA 0.5 power amp and the TLC-1 pre amp from Progressive Audio in the late 90's. I had a friend who was a great Stereophile with the keenest of ears. He took me to Progressive to listen to high end equipment like Wilson speakers and a Mark Levinson CD transport and separate DAC that then cost $20K. The point was to hear high end and then listen to the McCormack gear. To see the great SQ I could get for so much less; about $3k for the McCormack combination.

Many years later I had some problems with the TLC and that''s when I contacted SMcAudio and started working with Pat, who ran their upgrade program. In the end, based on Pat's sound, experienced advice, I instead upgraded the DNA 0.5. which at that point was still working fine but Pat felt was the better place to start in upgrading my system. Along with other of his suggestions; dedicated 20 amp circuit, Furutech receptacles and quality power cords; which I implemented.

Pat was superb to work with. No high pressure sales pitches just working to get me the best quality and results I could afford. I've never regretted following his directions and for the $2500 I put into the DNA upgrade, I have an amp that's would have cost 3x or 4x more!! If you can find their old gear at a reasonable price it's an excellent option to have them upgrade it. By the way, I decided to let go of the TLC. Pat had clients who were eager for it and so I sold it to SMcAudio for $450; a fair deal. Now some other lucky person has an upgraded TLC which I'm sure makes them very pleased!! 

Really appreciated this dialogue!!!!

Audio Research Corp will not repair their solid state amps. They say it is not possible. 

A stupid story. I bought my McCormack DNA.5 Deluxe from Progressive Audio on High Street in Columbus OH in 1996 or so. Shortly before, Steve had come to Progressive to give a presentation and promote his gear. There were maybe thirty people in attendance including Progressive's staff who were known to be a bit arrogant. I wanted to mentally justify the purchase and when Steve was taking questions from the audience I sheepishly asked if his amps had a finite life span and if so, how long. The whole audience seemed to let out a collective groan that I had asked the most stupid question imaginable. 

Great; another "expert" extrapolating from a sample size of 1.

Well done, Soix!

@soix - you cannot say that the board cannot be repaired by anyone.  Do you do repair work yourself?  Any product can be repaired unless the parts cannot be identified or there are no replacement parts available.  That being said, you do not have to get a new board made, you can simply made the part point-to-point wired and get rid of the board altogether.  But you need a competent repair person like we do.  

Absolutely correct, soix, and I am excited to hear how you like your rebuild!

I had a DNA-1 Deluxe for 20 years, loved it, and then it died suddenly. Board and/or caps failed. I had been in discussion for several years with Steve Mc and Patrick at SMc Audio to do one of his full upgrades but hadn’t. When it died I called them, and they gave me $400 for the dead amp. A mistake on my part, because I have decided I might like the latest "Full Monty" rebuild he does with his "gravity base" system on the DNA series and I can’t find a dead DNA-1 as the platform for it. When I’ve searched used ones, 20 years old for $1500-2500, I just laugh because they are time bombs. It’s not a question of if they will die (for the reasons Soix described), but when.

The gravity base is a heavy brass plate they build into the amp, iirc, which was developed during their collaboration with David Berning, one of the world’s foremost amplifier designers. They tell me it makes a very worthy improvement to their amps. Steve and SMc are now building very high-end amps and preamps on a per order basis, but still rebuilding his old DNA series because of demand. They have always been special amps and a true value, and people I’ve talked to who have done the latest gravity base full-house upgrade (maybe $3-4k?) say they are as good as anything 2-3X the price. Steve McC has always been about value for the workingman, but now he is doing custom high-end work because of his reputation. One system that he was a team member on is almost $1 MILLION. The high-end world is weird. SMc build a wonderful preamp that was $8K, but it didn't sell much because it was at the low end of the really high end. They got a distributor, doubled the price for the same unit (had to increase the price), and now they can't build them fast enough apparently. Because some people don't think a preamp can be good if it's "only" $8000 but at $16,000 it must be. 

Patrick at SMc is a good guy and can tell you all about what they are doing.

@curiousjim Great question, and yes upgraded SMcAudio upgraded amps do rarely show up for sale, but the same rules still apply — if the input board hasn’t been replaced you’re dancing with the devil. Whether it’s worth the $$$ for the upgrades, we’ll, I’m gonna have to get back to you on that cause I honestly, and frustratingly, haven’t gotten to listen to the damn thing yet but I will say this though — Steve has been refining his amps over decades — think Porsche 911 — so my bet is the classic has only gotten MUCH better but I’ll definitely letcha know fer sure. Please feel free to text me if I don’t follow up in enough time for you. Also, if u in the NYC area you’re more than welcome to come listen for yourself. After all, what are we if not a supportive community? And this offer extends to my other A’gon brother/sisters as well if anyone else who might wanna hear this amp with their own music.  Just sayin’.  We get what we give, right?

@mitch2 That is a REALLY interesting perspective considering you compared your SMcAmps to some of the best amps ever made, at least IMHO. But, you just exemplified why I chose to upgrade my humble DNA-0.5 RevA rather than just buying another amp.

For any who may care, I’ll post my impressions of my new, fully-upgraded DNA 0.5 with full Gravity Base and newly-implemented silver wire upgrade (as far as I know the only SMcAudio amp with this wire upgrade ever as it’s their latest upgrade and they used my amp as a test mule, which I was thrilled with) when I get it fully burned in and can get a good handle on what I’ve got here.

Yeah man your point is well taken, admittedly I'm on the high end of idiot savant in the DIY world and it likely doesn't make sense for the average consumer to pay someone to perform this kind of fix.... and the McCormack wasn't produced in high enough numbers to create any kind of economic model for anyone to take on this kind of project.... That being said, I'm all about sustainability and keeping great amps alive! and its really silly though. PCB's are so cheap if you have the layout.”

@pwayland You and I are so totally on the same page!  If I coulda swapped out an input board for a few hundred bucks, man, I’d a been all over that.  But that I maybe got lightly forced into spending a bit more for what is likely gonna be a reference-level amp I’ll likely live happily with for the rest of my life (and who knows what future upgrades will come my way) — well, I guess I just gotta live with that.  Heh heh.  But I’m also about sustainability, so if I did my little part by recycling my case and transformer and that they’ll both live on for decades more rather than landing in a landfill — yeah, I kinda feel good about that.  Peace my friend!

McCormack Audio was purchased by Conrad Johnson many years ago and they no longer manufacturer McCormack amplifiers.

SMc Audio is owned operated by Steve McCormack, the original designer of McCormack Audio amplifiers.  SMc upgrades the older amplifiers and they also manufacture entirely new products, including amplifies, preamplifiers, and several unique ancillaries.

SMc Audio has created new boards that can be used in failed McCormack Audio amplifiers.  However, because of the labor involved, it is a better value to commission an entire upgrade of the amplifier, which would include the new boards.  Yes, it is expensive but you can end up with an amplifier that approaches world class, depending on your upgrade choices.  SMc performs the upgrades using mostly only the chassis and heat sinks from the older McCormack amplifiers.  Otherwise, sell your failed amplifier to a buyer who wants to send it to SMc Audio so they can use the chassis and heat sinks to build a fully upgraded amplifier.

I have owned some pretty good sounding amplifiers, including the following monoblocks: Clayton M300 and M200, Lamm M1.2 Reference and M1.1, Cary SA-500.1 and 500MB, and Herron M1.  None of those displayed as satisfying a combination of dynamics, tonal density, and clarity as my SMc Audio DNA-1 ULTRA G monoblocks, that began their lives many years ago as two separate McCormack DNA-1s.  Mine are the pair at the bottom of the first panel of pictures on the SMc Audio home page.   While you are on the site, take the time to watch the 6-part video interview with Steve McCormack to become familiar with their business and product range.

@soix 

Are 20+ year old McCormaks worth the update? And do updated ones ever pop up for sale?

@soix Yeah man your point is well taken, admittedly I'm on the high end of idiot savant in the DIY world and it likely doesn't make sense for the average consumer to pay someone to perform this kind of fix.... and the McCormack wasn't produced in high enough numbers to create any kind of economic model for anyone to take on this kind of project.... That being said, I'm all about sustainability and keeping great amps alive! and its really silly though. PCB's are so cheap if you have the layout. I can order 5 for less than $50. If you are of a mind to, mail it to me (just the pcb) and I'll send you new pcbs at cost. Would be fun to see Jims AFE circuit. I would also put the gerbers on the diyaudio site for anyone else to utilize. Peace

@pwayland To me you sound like a lot more than “just a diy guy,” at least relative to my ignorant ass. Like I said, I’ll get some answers, but if I’m Steve McCormack and even if I could do it, do I wanna spend my time reviving input boards on 25-30 year-old amps that probably need a cap replacement anyway? If you’re gonna replace the input board and caps, at that point you’re really not far off from getting an amp that performs literally more on a reference level at its price point. If you’re gonna go thru the labor to replace both an input board and caps that I assume would cost $1500+ on its own, why not just spend your time creating truly special amps at not much more $$$?  That said, with many more 1990s DNA amps likely to fail from now on maybe you could set up a cottage industry just replacing those input boards. Do you think that’d be a worthwhile business? Could be I guess.  To me, I got 25 years outta my amp and time to move upward and onward one way or the other. But kuddos if you think replacing input boards on 30yo amps is a viable business model. Just my thoughts from a business perspective, but I’m all happy happy doing just doing the full-Monty upgrade. But that’s me.

If it's a single sided board, it would be pretty easy to scan and make gerber files of and create new boards.... And hell I'm just a diy guy.. If someone has one of these boat anchors for cheap I'm a buyer.. Peace

@winoguy17 Not at all man. Believe me I had the exact same questions you did when my amp failed.

To the others with excellent and, IMO, rightfully skeptical questions, my cursory understanding is that after about 25 years or so the traces on the board break, fail, whatever, but when you repair the failed areas the traces just start to fail in other areas so it becomes a house of cards. I think the input board was a custom-designed part that is no longer manufactured and I’m guessing, as McCormack is no longer producing amps in large quantities, paying to develop a replacement just isn’t economically feasible or maybe they just don’t wanna spend the time/effort to do it to revive really old amps — I honestly dunno. Please don’t shoot the messenger here, but SMcAudio have been straight shooters with me and I’ll commit to either getting more info or maybe having Steve or Pat respond directly to this thread.

Just FYI and FWIW, here’s my rationale on the thing and why I decided to spend $2500 on rebuilding my amp versus selling my DNA 0.5 RevA for parts and putting the $$$ toward a new amp. First and foremost, I love the way my amp sounds both for my tastes and within the context of my system, and I think we all know how valuable finding that synergy thing is. Second, while it’s certainly possible I could find another $2500 amp that would make me as or more happy is a bit of a crapshoot that I wasn’t sure I wanted to partake in. Third, as SMcAudio reused both my case and transformer, arguably two of the most cost-intensive parts of any amp, I kinda felt like that gave me a leg up over buying a whole new amp. Fourth, Steve has had decades to find parts, wire, gravity base, etc. that meaningfully improve his already-legendary design to another performance level entirely. As a brief aside, the reason he’s been able to do this is because they do mega high-end consulting work for other companies that build cost-no-object products (like Berning) and the fruits of his consulting work funded at that level trickle down into his SMcAudio mods that would’ve never otherwise been possible — win win. Last, given all these points above, I’ve no idea what my fully-modded amp with premium parts would cost if I could even find it new, but I’m pretty sure it’d cost at least twice what I paid for the upgrade and probably closer to 3x when all is said and done. So, doing all this “audiophile math” in my head and being fairly sure I would not only get the similar sonic qualities of my prior amp but all of it at an entirely higher altogether level, I went for the upgrade.

Did I have doubts? Hell yeah!!! Believe me there are the new GaN amps from the likes of AGD, Atma-Sphere, etc. that have me HUGELY intrigued, but those amps are considerably more expensive than the $2500 I paid for my rebuilt DNA 0.5, and the ones from the likes of Peachtree, Underwood, etc., well, there we have more of the crapshoot fear creeping in. There are some Class-A amps that I might’ve been able to snag used (Clayton, Pass, etc.), but I tend to like to leave my amp on to avoid the stress of turn-on/turn-off not to mention the inevitable warm-up time it then takes to get the amp up to optimal operating temp. And then there’s the issue of the electric bill/heat of leaving a Class-A amp on 24/7 — just can’t do it. Incidentally, and somewhat interestingly, Steve and Pat feel so strongly about just leaving their amps on 24/7 to prolong its operating life they disconnect the power switch from the circuit so if the amp’s plugged in, it’s on. The only thing the power switch does is turn on the dummy light on the front to let the wife/significant other know the thing is on. I found that to be good audiophile humor. But, seriously, Pat said I probably prolonged the life of my amp by years by just leaving it on (unless I was leaving for a week vacation or something). BTW, @kr4 if memory serves you did a review of a DNA-1 many moons ago and was quite impressed with it, so maybe you of all people could understand if you could bring that amp to an entirely higher, and maybe even reference level, for $2500 why I might’ve chosen this route. Or maybe not.

Ok, sorry. I did not mean for this to be so long-winded/boring, but bottom line is I commit I’ll get your enquiring minds a more specific answer as to the input board issue one way or another. Past that, have a Happy New Year!!!

 Thanks for clarification Soix. Didn't mean to come off as confrontational...

Fair warning. Thanks @soix   

So, Steve McCormack the designer of the amp says the input boards can’t be repaired. Then, the armchair experts here proclaim the board can be repaired. Who do you think you or I should believe?

Because their input board is at the end of its useful life, and when it fails your amp is dead and not repairable by anyone — not even SMcAudio. 

Can you tell us, in specific, what particular part or component is the source of this?

If the board can be traced, chances are it can be repaired. Schematics would be super helpful as well yet some companies are reluctant to break loose with such information….

Cannot be all parts in the Input board replaced with new ones?