Do speaker cables need a burn in period?

And you do an excellent job of hiding it, I must say. 😬

I think there might possibly be some screws that need a little tightening. 

It’s the double slit experiment. There is also a single slit experiment. First performed in 1801 for light, then later for other things like electrons, atoms and molecules. Could even be rats or glubson with the right experiment. 🐀

Having a screw loose is not a verification of, or a prerequisite for, being an engineer.....maybe something else though...

geoffkait,

"I think there might possibly be some screws that need a little tightening."

Do not worry, I can do it for you. I have met many who needed screws tightened so I do have some experience. You are, hard to believe it but it is true, a very simple one.

Ya know, he loves all this. 💩🐤

Who wouldn’t like all this? Being held down and beaten senseless by a hopped up gang with a whole lotta dumb questions. Most of whom display all the usual symptoms of, you know....🍑 🍔 🍔 such as repetitive speech and social ineptness and hyper focus on poop. Who wouldn’t like that?

Finally, Jeff’s Cat admits he is a masochist. Oh, I do love peaches and hamburgers. 💩🐍

Glubson, I don’t care. I really don’t care. Go away. Find someone else to stalk. Get a life, too. Life’s too short for your nonsense.

I have read teo_audio's post from September 25, 2018 at 8:34 am five times so far. I have been trying to gather points from it, minus Richard Feynman's speech regarding some mysterious untraceable experiment.

In the end, or at least so far, what I have concluded about that whole post is...

"And that is psychology ---not science, not the scientific method."

At the same time, someone might argue against proclaiming that psychology is not a science, but that is certainly a matter for some other forum.

I am not sure how it all relates to speaker cable burn in period, but I found that post more interesting and informative than most around here.

🐍💩🙀

geoffkait,

Do not ask questions that you get mad when people answer. Get yourself together.

Jeff’s Cat loves peaches and hamburgers. Ever see a cat try to pass a peach seed? 🙀

You’re not my mommy, glubson. I repeat, stop stalking me. 

Did someone squeeze maritime’s head again? 💩

Oh, bad Kitty Cat!  🐍💩🙀

Glubson, if my posts are not worth stalking me why stalkers thou me? Trying to be somebody, one supposes. My suggestion is a long cold shower. All the lonely stalkers, where do they all come from?

"All the lonely stalkers, where do they all come from?"

From geoffkait's abode.

He really loves it. Bad Kittyscat. 😼

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA

Is the hypothesis proposed that there is directionality inherent to wire, built into the physical structure and composition, even before it is ever connected to a voltage source, either DC or AC?

Or, is it that directionality becomes apparent only after connection to such voltage sources the hypothesis?

If the former, please explain what physical structures are fabricated into wire that determine directionality.

Otherwise, everyone here is simply full of it.

It's the latter.  It's only directional once you apply voltage and current.  

Now if you have a lot of time and you decide to swap ends on the cable every, say 5 minutes, while listening to music then it's no longer directional.

The wire in cables and fuses is physically asymmetrical. That’s why resistance measures slightly lower end to end one way than the other. Guess which way sounds better. 

Don't forget to burn in your connectors as well.  Sometimes it may take longer so I reuse my old connecxtors.  Also, the direction is being able to read the wire text from the amp to the speakers is correct.

Physically asymmetrical HOW?

And how can resistance measure lower at one end than the other? Stupid pseudoscience garbage. Measure a resistor with leads one way, then flip them around, and they measure the same. I’VE DONE IT. I build amplifiers.

Fuses, HAH!

NO clothes.

But then I guess many of you are laughing because I'm somewhat late to this game. Very funny.

No, I’m laughing because you’re wrong. Also because you’re late to the game. Where have you been the last 25 years? 😃

How slow is costco_emoji? Costc_emoji is so slow that after all this time he still doesn’t know what directionality even is. All cables are directional regardless of whether they have a ground. If the cables have a ground the directionality of the wire should be *controlled* to comply with the ground direction. Audioquest does this. Most cable companies do not do this out of ignorance or laziness.

The copper on printed circuit boards is not pulled through a die so it’s exempt from the directionality rule. But all the internal wiring in electronics is directional. The wire in inductors, transformers, point to point wiring, and all the wiring in speaker crossovers, and other internal speaker wiring. The industry is apparently rather retarded when it comes to the touchy sudject of directionality. And will hear none of it. Very strange IMHO.

Directionality Smart Page (from Audioquest),

https://www.audioquest.com/theory-education/article/83-directionality-its-all-about-noise

@geoffkait

The wire in cables and fuses is physically asymmetrical. That’s why resistance measures slightly lower end to end one way than the other. Guess which way sounds better.

My understanding is that the premise is the asymmetrical directionality is a result of how the wire is drawn. I have not looked into whether there are measurements showing a repeatable difference in resistance with wire direction although I seem to remember some here citing the HiFi-Tuning fuse test results as one example. I have seen stranger things and do not doubt there could be a metallurgical basis for asymmetry based on the manufacturing process so I would not refute or even spend time arguing Geoff’s assertion of directionality but it is the "sounding better" part where I become a skeptic. There are just too many other things going on in every system for me to believe that a typical person could discern differences in wire directionality by ear. It would be like hearing a fly’s wings flapping in the backseat of your car going 60 mph down a gravel road or, in terms of water, the effect of a stick on the flow rate of the Mississippi River, IMO.

mitch2
I have seen stranger things and do not doubt there could be a metallurgical basis for asymmetry based on the manufacturing process so I would not refute or even spend time arguing Geoff’s assertion of directionality but it is the "sounding better" part where I become a skeptic. There are just too many other things going on in every system for me to believe that a typical person could discern differences in wire directionality by ear.

>>>>>Of course there could be reasons why someone might not hear directionality. I’ve always cautioned that negative results of directionality, like anything else, must be taken with a grain of salt since there are quite a few things that can and do go wrong with evaluations and make it difficult to hear differences. You know, things like mistakes in the system, hearing issues, and errors in the test procedure. I think it’s safe to say negative results for cable directionality are relatively rare over the past 25 years and can be thrown out. How many customers of (directional) aftermarket fuses are there since they first came out 15 years ago? 100,000? That’s a whole lot of typical people who can hear wire directionality. It’s not rocket science. You listen. Hel-loo! 

mitch2,

+1
Case dismissed.

What a maroon! 🐰 

"How many customers of (directional) aftermarket fuses are there since they first came out 15 years ago? 100,000? That’s a whole lot of typical people who can hear wire directionality."

As with any epidemiological approach, it would be interesting to see the changes in new-fuse-buyers incidence in general market and their relationship to current marketing trends. Often, probably always, objects of hallucination are related to common names/events surrounding the affected subject.

100 000 new customers over 15 years is between 6000 and 7000 a year, assuming that someone actually knows how many different people bought such fuses. It would be hard, if not entirely impossible, to know how many individual buyers exist. However, given the very specific nature of such a purchase and obvious dedication to the subject, it is safe to assume that each buyer has bought more than one fuse. Which would greatly decrease the number of people interested in fuses and hearing those differences.

In the world where number of iPhones may be approaching one billion, a few thousand people who, for whatever legitimate or not so acceptable reason, hear differences in fuses can hardly be considered "a whole lot of typical people". To begin with, people who buy aftermarket fuses are not typical and carry a heavy burden of, admittedly good-natured, potential bias on their findings.

Geoff,

How many customers of (directional) aftermarket fuses are there since they first came out 15 years ago? 100,000? That’s a whole lot of typical people who can hear wire directionality.

Of course, I am skeptical that those folks actually hear the direction of their fuses rather than the psycho-acoustical effects of cognitive bias or loss aversion based on marketing hype and the fact those items cost more than the "regular" fuses some of us unenlightened folks use.

mitch2

... I am skeptical that those folks actually hear the direction of their fuses rather than the psycho-acoustical effects of cognitive bias or loss aversion based on marketing hype ...

Skepticism is a good thing. Have you ever experimented with premium fuses and whether they exhibit directionality? That's what separates the skeptics from the nay-sayers.

By the Great Almost Defined But Not Understood Higgs Boson!

I go away for a few minutes so I don’t have to see Geoff trying to stick a dunce cap on me (won’t fit -my head is too big), and this is what erupts!

You people stop that mudding, get cleaned up, and get yourselves to the dinner table!

glupson
"How many customers of (directional) aftermarket fuses are there since they first came out 15 years ago? 100,000? That’s a whole lot of typical people who can hear wire directionality."
As with any epidemiological approach, it would be interesting to see the changes in new-fuse-buyers incidence in general market and their relationship to current marketing trends. Often, probably always, objects of hallucination are related to common names/events surrounding the affected subject.

100 000 new customers over 15 years is between 6000 and 7000 a year, assuming that someone actually knows how many different people bought such fuses. It would be hard, if not entirely impossible, to know how many individual buyers exist. However, given the very specific nature of such a purchase and obvious dedication to the subject, it is safe to assume that each buyer has bought more than one fuse. Which would greatly decrease the number of people interested in fuses and hearing those differences.

In the world where number of iPhones may be approaching one billion, a few thousand people who, for whatever legitimate or not so acceptable reason, hear differences in fuses can hardly be considered "a whole lot of typical people". To begin with, people who buy aftermarket fuses are not typical and carry a heavy burden of, admittedly good-natured, potential bias on their findings.

As is frequently the case, it’s probably best for all concerned to file gubson’s gibbersih under WHATEVER.

mitch2
Geoff “How many customers of (directional) aftermarket fuses are there since they first came out 15 years ago? 100,000? That’s a whole lot of typical people who can hear wire directionality.”

Of course, I am skeptical that those folks actually hear the direction of their fuses rather than the psycho-acoustical effects of cognitive bias or loss aversion based on marketing hype and the fact those items cost more than the "regular" fuses some of us unenlightened folks use.

>>>>So, you’re skeptical? So what? Get in line. That’s why audiophile fuses have been controversial from the beginning. A real skeptic doesn’t keep repeating the same old line about expectation bias or psychological effects, he rolls up his sleeves and investigates. That’s the scientific method. Of course if you’re just mouthing off and not really interested in the facts of this case I can certainly understand.

Teo, I don’t fault anyone for not understanding particle physics, even you. Carry on! 🕺

Cable burn in is non sense.. unless someone can explain the changes to the cable during and after the burn in. Changes like conductivity, resistance, and so on..

pc997,

"...unless someone can explain the changes to the cable during and after the burn in."

Be careful what you ask for. They may try to explain.

Yes, and there’s the rub. 🐍💩😱

Oh, no! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

 🐥 🐥 🐥 🐥 peep, peep!

Scientifically speaking, I doubt you could find your butt in a bathtub with a roadmap and a handful of fishhooks. But, I am a sceptic. 🐍💩😜

Inhaling aviation fuel fumes was obviously not good for your 🧠 although you probably liked it at the time 🍑🤡

Peaches and clowns?

I can just imagine you trying to make a category one approach without crapping in your drawers. 😼

Cat III, and you’d faint. 

Yup, best hydrocarbons around. 🐍💩

@cleeds 
To your question - Yes

@geoffkait 
Yes, I have rolled up my sleeves and investigated aftermarket fuses of several varieties and directionality of those fuses.  Bottom line is that I do not perceive differences between those aftermarket fuses and my typical Littelfuse or Bussmann fuses (I do however perceive differences between cables, so go figure).  Most of those aftermarket fuses are still in my gear and I have no reason to remove them since I own them, they work, and they don't seem to make things sound worse.  My own trials and observations of those fuses and common sense related to the length of a fuse wire compared to the many signal traces, electrical parts, and feet of wire present in most equipment are what has led me to be skeptical of what others report hearing.  However, for clarity, I do not question what they hear, just the reasons why.  Also, unlike some others, I am fine with this difference of opinion and feel no need to change anyone else's mind.