Diminishing Returns

I’m kinda surprised no one has mentioned KLH, a company that seems to be returning from the dead. I heard the Kendall at a stereo store and was very impressed, especially as I was flipping between them and a pair of Harbeths. The KLH Kendall’s held their own at about a third of the price. $1300 a pair. As soon as I get the chance, I’d like to audition the Albany, their sealed bookshelf model. 

@beetlemania

but there is now a 2Ce Sig III.

Yes, brand new from Richard. But as we are talking diminishing returns, and although I’m sure they are great for the money, even I would have a hard time making that purchase when I bought my Sig I’s for $600, or, $2,700 less than the III’s.

They, and their improvements, would have to awfully darn good to cover that gap in cost.

Interestingly, I first bought a pair of the 1C’s (later versions) in great shape used for $325 shipped. I knew I liked the sound so much after a very short time of listening, I found and bought my 2CE Sig I’s literally 2 months later, as I desired ‘more’. I still have the 1C’s, and use them for my rears in HT mode. So, for basically $900 have two pair of pretty darn good speakers.

The newest iterations of both would cost $4,780, PLUS tax and shipping.

I believe I did well, and came in well beneath any ‘diminishing return’ anxiety following my purchase(s).

Fair Enough, just depends on where/how you define “diminishing returns”. To restate my point, the Vandy 2 is a great value and reaching for the newest iteration within your budget will be rewarded even if the returns are diminishing. 

Magnepan LRS. A total surprise even before you hear the price.

@ b_limo
Never owned a pair of Wharfedales before now.  I do think the Evo 4.3 are excellent for the price and I felt they were the better match for my room size than the 4.4.  If you have the room size go for the 4.4.  Im glad I went with the 4.3 but Im going to add a sub x2 later.

If I didnt like them I could send them back and go with the Focal Arias or see if they finally had the Tannoy Revolution's back in stock and exchange it for them. Cant say that these are better than those, but we like them so much they're here to stay. I know there are speakers that could blow these away but not at this price.


The Evos borrow a lot from Wharfedales Elysian series which were out of my price range.

I remember that one of Audio Solutions Figaro models impressed me a lot at an audio show. They cost $5000 but sounded very good. TAS just tested a pricier model and also commented that they are a very good value for money. 

For less expensive, very high end speaker, I love the small box Vandersteen's with the carbon tweeter.  I heard it scale with an Ayre AX5/20 (my integrated) as well as rock out with the Belles Aries integrated.  It's just an amazing speaker.

The ET panel is always near the top of that list for me.  I've never heard it sound anything but great.  When matched properly and set up properly, you can achieve amazing results from 60hz on up. 

I felt my Vandy Treo's were an amazing value for true high end sound.  


I think a great speaker will be one that you can match TOP electronics with and you keep hearing a marked difference.  YMMV

Omega?

Speaking of Wharfedale 225's. Would they be a good PC desktop speaker? I have Audioengine A5's I am getting a little tired of. Got the space for them in my office. 

The LiL Maggie desktop system is pretty good :-) real high end on a work surface..,

The great thing about shopping for speakers is that it’s so subjective (it’s all in your head, you know). All you have to do is discover what you like. That said, the last time I was auditioning speakers I thought Wharfedale beat Elac and others. I pretty sure that Kevlar cone Material They use is a big reason. So if you’re lucky enough to be able to audition them, have at it.  That said, I ended up with Magnepan .7s and if you can hear the LRS, do. 

I don’t think $2k will get you there. Heck, you’ll spend $2k for a turntable and cartridge alone. $10k would be a better amount. I’ve $2k in speakers, $1500 in a turntable, another $2k in a dac, $1k in a tube amp, $1k in a tube preamp, $1k in a solid state amp. And all of my gear was bought used...all of it. So if bought new I’d say double my investment price. So yeah, $10k at minimum in used gear to have an awfully decent system. BTW, I use Martin Logan Theos speakers, which are fairly easy to drive, and are fairly revealing. Best!

The Roon eq will be the best speaker upgrade you can have.

At 50 bucks used, the top of the british line Mission, the Cyrus 781+ a passively and actively modified acoustic room by my homemade methods, gives me in my 2 listening position (regular and nearfield) a sound so good that even if an upgrade would give me a better sound, the increase in money invested would be out of scale....


I sold my 4 Tannoy Dual Gold 800 hundred dollars for each pair few years ago, I had pay them 400 dollars in 1975....They were very good but not better than the Mission and too big for my desk....


In my experience the acoustic treatments, the passive one and the generally unacknowledged active one, are the keys to audio experience, not so much the speakers, especially if you play with low price speakers around 1000 dollars new...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned used apogee's, lot of bang for the buck. I got a mint pair of duetta 2's for $1500 with factory packaging. They sound great.

@coltrane1 , I agree, something in the $10k range for total system is where things start to sound really good.  I do think though that many people overlook room treatments and that a well treated room with $4,000 in components will sound better than a room with zero treatments and $8,000 in components

KLH is coming out with a new Model 5 soon

got some restored B&W CDM1 se's for 100 bucks...talk about bang for the $.   in a small room their still something special even 25 years on.

Also bought my Aria 936's for 2500... keep an eye out for demo's... a great middle ground in the used/new spectrum

Here on June 4 the wind has probably died off for this thread.  Nonetheless, I can't resist suggesting used Vandersteen 3A Signatures, often appearing for under $2k.  I've long considered this buy among the best in sound for the money.  Then pair them with a pair of used Vandy 2wq subs, also, I believe, well under $2k, and you will have sound that you can't believe for the money that will probably keep a smile on your face, or rather in your heart, for a good while.

The brand new Vandersteen 2 Sig mk3 should be on anyone's list under 3500.  He rebuilt the crossover and is using a top circuit board along with the same midrange that's in my Quatro's, lol.  He made a bunch of other changes.  I was told that these are a large upgrade, hence the new designation.  Mate that with an all in one integrated that streams etc... and what a system you have.  

BTW, if you use Vandy subs they are designed to take on the sound of your main amp for the bass where they are crossed over>. It will also free up your main speakers, so that you won't drive them too hard and they too will sound better.  I've never felt the 3's needed subs, but I know many want more bass and it does help the sound of the 3's.

About speakers deal mine is hard to beat...

I bought 3 years ago a pair of Mission Cyrus 781 speakers 80 bucks...My electronic repairman(very competent one) said to me that one of the speakers was more beaten and less powerful than the other....I listen to them and I see that with my own ears... I phone back the seller and well, he was sorry to hear that, and does not know about that problem before the sale etc... Being very honest, he lowered the price half and at 40 bucks I bought them....


I adjusted the balance and position to compensate but you know a broken speakers is a broken one...


But miracles happen, after 2 years I discovered one day that the 2 speakers were equal in power now....I dont know why, perhaps some catalytic resurrection coming from my many "golden plates" located near the electronics.... :) I never listen to my many headphones now....


But These British speakers indeed punch way over their price (800 bucks) in quality.... Non fatiguing highs with plenty of details, mids velvety, their bass sounds are clear and I listen to them with my body....For a 7 inches bass drivers this is more than very good....I modify them my way and now to upgrade them will cost me many thousand dollars...( I sold a subwoofer because with these bass notes I dont need one, I dont listen metal ,nor movie music ).


The sound is immersive( nearfield) or out of the speakers (in regular listening distance) not related to them filling the room with no real defect at all... Better speakers exist but the price is not 40 bucks, more many thousands, i know it because in their own way they top my Old Tannoy dual gold, which I sold 800 bucks after 40 years of use....The Tannoy were too big for my desk....


But last word, speakers could not deliver optimal good sound at any price without a room treatment, a passive one and an active one....If I look the photos in the virtual section almost nobody use active room treatment.... And those that use a passive one dont feel the necessity to use a good active treatment.... Add to that a minimalistic or a nonexistent electrical house grid treatment, and except for a minimalistic resonance and vibrations controls, almost all invest in the Electronic Components and never address rightfully the triple embeddings problem...

Then it is not surprizing that most people are sure that Hi-Fi S.Q. is directly linked to the price scale.... That is a myth....A myth that no reviewers can debunk really once and for all because they will lost their sponsors in the E.C. industry....


First and last audiophile law:

" Dont upgrade before embedding it"