Devore 0/96 - Integrated AMP help

Thank you! To KT-77s are a revelation on the Leben cs600x. They wanecthe amp up for more lively and complex music including pop and rock adding both dynamics and speed. Thank you for the suggestions @davehg. 

I almost went for the GR12’s. The O/93 was a poor match for me. I’ve found my mojo again in a pair of Verity Otello’s. The ups/ downs and unknowns of audiophilia are all blessings on the path.
Mastersound makes great sounding amp too.

Coherent Audio speakers fly under the radar amongst a plethera of available speaker brands. Yet from all I’ve heard/read about them they are genuinely excellent sounding and very easily driven as a bonus.
Charles

Not to stray too far off topic but has anyone had the opportunity to compare Devore with Coherent Audio speakers from Canada?

Yes, I have had both O/93s and Coherent Model 10’s in my room at the same time. I prefer the Coherents on sound, and factoring in price it was really no contest (for me).

The Coherents have a wide open, see-through clarity in the midrange, whereas the 93 midrange is slightly more rich. They are livelier and more immediate sounding. They are extremely transparent, and if you want to hear the sound of your amp, these speakers will tell it to you. They are perfect if you want to explore low power amps. 

The Devores can dig a touch deeper in the bass (I’d guess the Coherents go to 38-40 hz) but have a bit too much "back of the hall" presentation for my taste compared to the Coherents.

The 93s can be a bit more forgiving and therefore a bit more amp friendly from a tonal perspective, however the Coherents are a bit more sensitive. Mine are rated at 94db but I would not be afraid to try them with any amp. I was able to fill a room with a half a watt from the LTA MZ2 from a high output DAC (I believe Frank at Coherent also uses the MZ2 in his shop to test speakers).

They are more alike than different but those are the differences I noticed.

I’ve had the Coherents now nearly 3 years. I run them mainly with one of the First Watt SIT amps.

@kw6   Did you hear the MQ-88uC paired with O/96's specifically?  I own a Leben CS-300xs as well and they both sound good but the Luxman does most things better than the Leben in my room with O/96's - including much more lifelike tonality, air, finesse, and neutrality.  Both very enjoyable!

Three easy payments,

I have heard the Luxman MQ-88c! Has a rich dark sound lacking in air and lifelike tonality. Never heard the 300b one though. Leben will leave it in the dust!

@davehg, 
"I’m usually skeptical of custom builds but I compared 3 of his builds to my Leben and was shocked by the performance. It was interesting to compare identical amps where the transformer and caps were different - really huge differences. "

Yep! I've never understood why some people are skeptical of the benefit of upgrading to better quality capacitors,  output transformers (Most definitely) and other vital parts.

Many stock parts are often chosen due  to cost considerations/price point targets and   can be improved upon. Just because a part meets"spec" does not mean it cannot be bettered. Thank you for providing the additional information. No doubt that you are enjoying some beautiful sound quality via your audio system. 
Charles 

@charles1dad and crandell25, the stock Bottlehead offerings are ok out of the box, but they really benefit from substituting higher end pieces. These custom amps are built by one of their lead designers (a friend) who is sourcing some rare iron, and letting me spec the coupling caps and higher end parts. The amp design is not currently from BH’s product offering, so a bit custom, though the preamp (BeePre2) is available - I just specc’d higher end caps and a buffered output, plus upgraded NOS tubes. PM me if interested and I can connect you with him. I’m usually skeptical of custom builds but I compared 3 of his builds to my Leben and was shocked by the performance. It was interesting to compare identical amps where the transformer and caps were different - really huge differences. My build gives all the SET magic but with more flesh and bass slam, something I don’t think about when talking about 300b SETs usually, but clearly they are capable if built properly. Biggest gripe about the BH builds is they cheap out on the cabinets and switch gear, but all of those are easily remedied with custom parts and wood worker friends.
I do like the Leben. - it really does sound very different swapping out various tubes. And it’s built like an heirloom piece.

If I was buying a name brand 300b, the Airtight would be at the top of my list, along with an AudioNote, and some of the Shindos. I wish Leben would do a 300b integrated - I liked my Woo WA5.

@ghasley, I agree the cables and mix make a difference. I think the Leben can sound very saturated in a good way, and even while the Shindo is less “juicy” to my ears, I enjoy it, but I tend to like a sweeter, richer sound even if not technically neutral or accurate. On my Leben I’m using Acoustic Zen Silver Reference RCA and Satori speaker cables, but would like to test out the A23 cables (the dealer used these when I demoed the Leben and O/96 and it was a wonderful pairing).

"@kw6 You’d be shocked how well the Luxman MQ-88uC pairs with O/96’s. And the MQ-300 pairing is stellar - even more so."

I wonder if @kw6 was referring to the Luxman solid state amplifiers specifically. It’s difficult to imagine why their tube amplifiers (Particularly the MQ series) wouldn’t pair well with the Orangutan/96. I do not doubt that the 4 he recommends are excellent choices.
Charles

@kw6   You'd be shocked how well the Luxman MQ-88uC pairs with O/96's.  And the MQ-300 pairing is stellar - even more so.

Let me save you some money! Only Leben, Shindo, Air Tight or Kondo (Audio Note) can make your speakers sing! Please don't get Luxman or Accuphase or even Dartzeel for that matter! Gl 😆

@davehg 

Well said as I am a huge fan of the 600x and the o96. I do however find Shindo far from dry but I am also aware that alot of nuances combine to determine sound. Shindo with shindo interconnect or a23 or brand x? Shindo with which pre? Stock or did someone roll somthing in? Stock power cable into a Mr. T or some other power conditioner. I have found that the 600x in the exact same setup as a shindo combo can sound a bit too “wet” although I like both more than almost anything else.

@davehg thanks for the response.  My order is in for the 0/96s.  The Leben CS600x is at the top of my list.  There are some great recommendations on this thread but some are out of budget range.  The Luxman LX-380 is also a contender but the Leben definitely seems more flexible with tube options.

I am also considering building a Bottlehead setup for the 0/96s down the road.  I built and use a Bottlehead Crack in my headphone setup and love it.

@davehg,
I was not aware that the Bottlehead  components offered that level of optional upgraded parts. I’m sure they sound as exceptional as you describe. I definitely agree with you in regard to the importance of high quality output transformers, crucial for excellent sound quality.
Charles

Late to this thread. I’ve owned the Nines and now the 0/96. I’ve heard many of the amps mentioned here and owned several too, including the Air Tight and more recently the Leben 600x. The Leben is a terrific amp, and the 600x is essentially many amps rolled into one, as it supports at least 8 tube configurations. I’ve been happy with KT77s, and most recently experimented with 6L6 variants. The Leben is very neutral and takes on the tone of the power tubes used. Want warmth and SET like presence - try the TungSol 5781a. Want more dynamics - try the Gold Lion KT77. Want a more sparkly top end and solid bass - try the 6550. But absolutely swap out the stock line stage tubes for some NOS versions.

I’ve also tried a number of 300b amps and they are magic on the O/96. Depending on the quality of the transformers and coupling caps, you can get classic SET magic, or even robust bass as well. I’m keeping the Leben but I’ve got a second setup using a Bottlehead 300b pre amp with Vcaps, coupled with a custom built Bottlehead 300b amp using vintage nickel transformers and exotic Mundorf silver foil oil capacitors. 8wpc and it will outcompete a number of big ticket competitors. 
Off the shelf, my vote is Leben 600x, AirTight ATM300 or 211, I’ve liked the LM and LTA amps, and while Shindo is nice I find their sonic signature a tad dry for my ears.

I have not tried a Class A solid state amp with the Devore but have eyed a First Watt. Accuphase also seems interesting, as do certain of the Luxman integrateds.

The O/96 does not need very much power but the quality of the transformers (not their weight) along with the caps and resistors can make the difference between typical gooey midrange and polite extremes, and wonderfully defined bass, clear musical highs, and that eerily “in the room” presence that only a SET can bring. 
Let us know what you end up with.

I would love to check out the LTA amps at some point.  Hearing so many good things about them.

@roncagg I finally had a chance to look up the Ultralinear amp.  Very interesting indeed with rave reviews.  I will need to consider it as one of the options while I wait for my Devore's.

My Devore Nines never sounded better than with the Linear Tube Audio Ultralinear amp (18W), across the entire frequency spectrum. Better than my previous pairings: Almarro A318B (had beaten all comers ’til LTA), Leben CS300xs, Firstwatt F7, Elekit TU-8600 (300b), Line magenetic 211i (el34), Red Wine Audio (hybrid). I have the version in the larger case that has a volume control, but mostly drive it with an eastern electric minimax preamp. Body with articulation, clarity and soundstage, worth a listen!

Not to stray too far off topic but has anyone had the opportunity to compare Devore with Coherent Audio speakers from Canada?

Not pushing, but NAF makes a more affordable amp. Push pull, class A, with KT66 tubes run in triode mode. Might be worth a call to Jeff Catalano to see whether it could fit your budget.

The problem nonetheless is that you won't be able to hear the pairing of the O/96 with NAF amps -- in my case, it was more accidental than planned: I was replacing my equipment with items from Jeff from source onward, starting with the turntable, and stopped when I found the NAF-Devore combo so compelling. 

@pingvin   You're not the first person I've heard make really favorable comments about the NAF amps paired with DeVores - particularly their 2a3 and 300b amps.  A bit out of my price range but I'd love to try one someday.

Thanks for the additional responses everyone.

@pingvin - The New Audio Frontiers amps look very interesting indeed.

Everyone has slightly different sonic priorities, and that’s cool. So mine is but one opinion. 

I have lived with O/93s for 8 years now and don’t have any desire to replace them, even though I can see how some might prefer something else. Same with the A23 cabling. 

I originally had them paired with a Leben 600, but was never quite happy with it. Tried tube rolling, cables, tweaks — ‘just didn’t do it for me. I think the smaller 300 has a bit more character and appeal.

I’ve heard multiple Devores with the LM 845. I can see why people love the combo. For me, 845 amps are a bit limiting — everything is presented with burning intensity. 

I quite liked the LM 300b integrated into O/96s at brief listen, but the LM integrated doesn’t have the purity of some higher priced 300b amps. (That Air Tight 300b mentioned above is wonderful, for example.) Unfortunately, really good iron costs. 
For the past four years I’ve run the apes with a push-pull class A 300b amp by New Audio Frontiers. (I got them from Jeff Catalano, along with a NAF phono stage, a turntable, two tonearms, three cartridges, and a partridge in a pear tree.) I spoke briefly to John Devore a while back; when I told him what I had upstream he remarked that a good push-pull 300b amp provides subtlety, finesse *and* a certain  confidence and freedom that SE 300b amps don’t always have — a good summary of what I appreciate. 

Good luck with the quest. 

Ping

With the O/96, you may get on well with the Riviera Labs 10w amps. They have an integrated as well as a pure amplifier. Hybrid tube/SS in pure Class A. If your dealer carries Devore/LM/Sugden/Auditorium, they likely also carry Riviera.

I have the 30w/120w Levante. Devores (though not the 96) on order -- should have impressions on the pairing in a few months.

If you haven't seen it Stereophile recently tested a Line Magnetic amp and also had the time to try it out for a while with O/96's.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/line-magnetic-lm-845ia-integrated-amplifier

@verdantaudio thanks for the feedback!  I will check out the review.

Check out the Canor AI1.10.  Andrew Robinson (Recovering Audiopile) just did a review over at the recovering audiophile and simply raved about it.  It is a push pull KT88 that delivers 20w in triode, 40w in Ultralinear.  If you aren't familiar, he has a YouTube video channel and 200K followers.  If you are, my apologies.  No intent to be condescending.  Just trying to be informative.  

I am the importer so I am clearly biased, but I have been listening to one for a couple months driving Vivid's in a small space.  I think it will do the job well on your Devores. 

Otherwise, Sugden is my favorite amp of the ones you have listed.  

Line Magnetic is easy to get tubes for but good ones are pretty expensive.  Upgrading tubes in that whole amp to the best options will add quite a bit to the cost.  

@three_easy_payments thanks for the tube recommendations.  I will look into them.

@fsonicsmith Keep us posted on how you find the 8 watts for the 0/93s!

@fsonicsmith, 
Thank you,  I really appreciate your kind remark. 
Charles 

Will do so charles1dad. You and prof are easily my favorite regulars on this board. You both write well and with a certain sense of decorum and maturity. 

@fsonicsmith,
That is indeed quite the contrast between two amplifiers.  I'm very interested to read what sonic distinctions you hear between them.
Charles 

My first thought was, ’I find it hard to believe that the Pass Labs XA 25 would have better sound quality than the Line Magnetic 508ia amplifier.’ But then I have to acknowledge that this is pure subjectivity and people simply like what they like,. Preferences span a very wide spectrum.

This is the way it should be and one of the major factors that make High End audio and listening to music such an interesting and enjoyable endeavor. So I happily say to each their own. There’s an audio component out there that will suit an individual’s taste whatever it happens to be.
Charles

@rh67

The XA25 has a different SQ compared to any other Pass amp.

I was wondering if perhaps I extrapolated my XA30.8 experience too far when comparing it to the XA25. This is good to know!

In a few weeks I should be able to tell you how an eight watt SE zero negative feedback Class A amp sounds with O/93's. I also use Auditorium 23 loudspeaker cable which is a match made in heaven for the Orangutans. The amp in question is https://ampsandsound.com/products/nautilus
I will run it balanced between preamp and amp with my ARC Ref 6. 
This amp will be quite a contrast to my other amp, an ARC Ref 150 SE. 
My room is on the small side-18 x 14 x 8. 
I am also biased in favor of heavy transformers. But transformers come in all levels of quality and engineering. A lighter Japanese precision hand-built all silver transformer can sound far better than an off the shelf no-name transformer built with average wire three times its size and weight. Very few amp manufacturers build their own transformers and even those can be outdated designs. Finding a source of precision made well engineered trannies is a challenge for any amp manufacturer. I am also biased against ALPS volume controls. I just don't like them. In my view, they are cheaply built. I intend to bypass the stepped attenuator that comes with the Nautilus-even though it should far surpass any ALPS, and use the more sophisticated volume control in my Ref 6. 

The XA25 has a different SQ compared to any other Pass amp. Once broken in it has a very SET like presentation that works well with DeVore speakers i also had the DeVore super nines which were my favorite DeVore speaker.

It’s interesting that @rs67 felt his Pass edged out the LM805 when my experience was just the opposite - I had the Pass XA30.8 paired with a VAC Ren MKV pre and the LM805 was actually quite a bit better when paired with O/96’s. The only caveat I will add is that I do tend towards jazz much of the time but the bass extension, texture, air, and 3D soundstage was simply much more impressive to me with the LM amp. I do run the LM805 with the VAC pre and found it makes a material improvement versus running the 805 as an integrated. I suspect VAC integrated the volume control much better than LM.

@crandell The LM805 does benefit greatly from replacing all of the stock tubes and it can get a bit pricey depending on your tolerance, but it doesn’t have to. I run a vintage Mullard ECC35, a pair of 60 yr old Tung Sol 6SN7GT round plates, a pair of Psvane ACME 805’s ,and a pair of EML 300b-XLS tubes. Really a stunning presentation of music.

The Leben is a well-known great match with the O/96’s and offers more flexibility because of the tube choices it accepts but you may feel it doesn’t quite comparatively deliver the dynamics and certainly the "SET magic" of the LM805.

Lots of Line Magnetic recommendations!  I would have suspected more Leben pairings out there with Devores.  Questions to the Line Magnetic owners:
1) Are the big power tubes (845, 300, 805) easy to source?
2) Are decent tube replacements expensive?

The Line Magnetic is one of the cheaper alternatives recommended in this thread for sure but I am curious about longer term ownership with these big power tubes.

Thanks!

 

Line Magnetic all the way. My 508ia with 845 is the most musical gear I’ve ever heard. First ran Harbeth SHL5 plus and it was magic but too big for the room so I moved to Peak Consult Princess IV Signature and WOW. 

@ everyone, thanks for all the great suggestions!  Leaves me with a lot to look into.

@essrand that is great to hear!  One last question, did you hear the Luxman 380 with Devores or with a different speaker?

@crandell25

Accuphase E-650 really took me by surprise, I have never liked SS amps before this (except a megabuck integrated - Technical Brain). It has great tonality of a tube, and amazing bass of an SS. It is still breaking in, so will have to wait a few more months before I can say anything with confidence.

I took the risk it because I found a user from this forum who switched from Shindo separates to Accuphase SS for this Devore O96 and claimed that he didn't missed the Shindos at all (BTW Shindo/Devore is a well know synergistic pairing). Then I got an home audition, and then bought it.

My amp is still breaking in, and if it opens up as I suspect it would in the next few months, I think my Nagras might get sold :)

Of course the Accuphase is not as sweet as the Nagra 300p but .... if I decide not to have two amps, I might sell it.

I would strongly recommend the Line Magnetic 805iA. I currently have my LM amp paired with a pair of GoldenEar Triton Reference. The LM is excellent in build quality, and superb at music. I upgraded the fuse with Orange from Synergistic Research, feet to GAIA I from IsoAcoustics, power cable to Acoustic Zen Garguntua and input tubes. It sounds absolutely stunning. 

May want to look at the Esoteric F-03A
30/60 wpc, dual mono, over the top build quality...

Hello,
Another option is Rogue Audio. The Sphinx integrated amp is really nice for $1500. They have preamps and amps too. I know Decware is really great but you might have to wait for a while. When you have to wait for a product like Raven, Decware, and several others I believe it to be a sign that it must be pretty good. Not always but the reviews help to confirm the product. 

I heard the O/93 with a Bryston SS amp and that worked great. Just another thing you may want to check out.

A 300B is definitely a good pairing. The Airtight ATM-300 Reference sounds awesome with this speaker. There is also a youtube video of DeVore where he shows his gear and tells about the amps he is using. He has an AirTight as well.

Also, the Nagra 300i sounds lovely with DeVore.

If you need to crank up bass-heavy music often, the Line Magnetics amps with 300B/845tubes are badass matches. 

I have owned the Devore 0/96's for several years and owned the LM805 and Pass INT XA25 and powered the DeVore's with these amps. Both sound great but in my experience there was some magical moments with the Pass INT 25 that the LM did not have. The Pass took about 200 hrs. to come into it's own. Another option would be the SIT 3. Reno HiFi has home demo's for the Pass equipment.

Don't get me wrong the LM is a great amp but the overall tone of the Pass was special.

First watt amps are really good especially the J2. I use the audio research ref 75 with my orangutans and love the combo. VTL 5.5 as a pre.
I liked the line magnetic 518ia set amp too but not my cup of tea for all genres of music. The refs 75 definitely makes me happy with everything I listen through it. I wish I still have the line  magnetic for jazz and smaller ensembles. Especially vocals and acoustic guitars

I drive Focal Aria 906 speakers with a Quicksilver Integrated Amplifier. The speakers have a specified sensitivity of 89.5 dB; your Devore's 96 dB. In my set up, at moderate listening volume, the volume control stays around 10:30 o'clock. (Except when a phono preamp rather than my DAC provides the input; then 12:30 o'clock.) If you don't need rock-concert volume, this amp should work for you. And I would infer that you don't want a subwoofer.

The setup, both from DAC and phono pre-amp,sounds great. It is smooth and detailed. Speakers are probably the more important choice for warmth versus bright, etc.

If you’re on Facebook please join us on the devore fidelity fan group. You will get a lot of useful information there too about good matching amps for your orangutans.

I would try an accuphase or a luxman class a integrated for that off the upgrade bandwagon for your speakers.