I am considering getting a stand alone DAC for my digital streaming. My system as it stands now sounds a little forward to me. Soundstage depth is lacking. Separation, width and height appear appropriate, as does image density. I am currently running a Bluesound node 2 streamer in my main system. The rest of my system is as follows:
Sources: TV, JA Michele Gyrodec, Bluesound Node 2
Amp(s) Red Dragon Audio M1000 Mk I monoblocks and sometimes I switch in my Anthem MCA 20
Preamp Blue Circle 21.1
Tranducers Spacial Audio M3 turbo s GMA Continuum I's Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 Maggie MMG's Paradigm Monitor Sub 12 (stereo pair)
as I said I am really looking for some depth and "air" in my sound stage but also highly value impact, extended sparkle on the top end, and punch.
It sounds to me like you're very much describing the sound (and limitations) of your preamp. In his Soundstage review John Crossett found the 21.1 to be darker and more forward with less depth in direct comparison to an ARC SP16. I don't see much sense in adding a DAC to improve air and depth when your preamp is working against it downstream. So, while I'd definitely agree adding a good DAC would be a very good idea, I'd audition and potentially replace your preamp first. I think you'll be surprised at the difference will make in your system as you have a pretty neutral amp and speakers that are certainly capable of portraying excellent depth and air.
Just for two examples FWIW, if I were you I'd take a hard look at a used Backert Rhumba or maybe a Don Sachs or Tubes4HiFi SP14 and try to hear one (or something similar) in your system. Just my $0.02 and best of luck.
Ben For about $900 you can get a Bel Canto DAC 2.5 , And you will probably never look back.
I bought a new DAC 2.5 for $2200 a few years back. I hit hard times, sold it, then I bought another one used for $900 b/c I Realized how good they were for the money.
The DAC also has a built in PreAmp with Volume control. These Bel Cantos are hi res, musical, fast, big soundstage, and clean-sounding with incredibly low distortion (Bel Canto uses high end anti-jitter components and clocks).
The 2.5 DAC would most likely mate well with your red dragon amplifiers. For $900, it’s a steal.
i do do not get my Blue Circle preamp until next week. Currently I am using an NAD 165C Bee. I know I may experience big changes, and maybe the ones I am looking for... but keep the recommendations coming!!!
@graber thanks for the recommendation.. I will look into it...
The NAD c165Bee is actually a very good preamp. It doesn't have the somewhat exaggerated midrange glow of my tube preamp in my other system but its quite balanced top to bottom with good soundstage and air. Your tube Blue Circle might give you that added "air" especially on vocals but remember it has twice as much output voltage; 20V vs. 10V, so keep that in mind when pairing it with your amp.
@Kalali Yes, the little budget pre has served me well and I agree with you about tonal balance. However, I think that my room presents some problems with the speakers I use most (Spatial Hologram). My room its 12 ft x 19 feet and my front wall is the long wall due to room set up/floor plan of my home. I get great separation left to right and good height, I just have almost zero depth. Sure tweaking the speaker placement is a big deal, but even when the speakers are optimized in my room the sound stage really 2 dimensional and very forward. I have never had any tube gear before and am excited to see what it can do for a three dimensional sound stage.
I will send out updates and impressions after I get it running next week.
Oh and BTW I will be moving the NAD 165 to the bedroom system (Maggie MMGs. stereo REL t-7's, and an anthem MCA 20 for power).
@erik_squires yes, +1 for the Schiit Gungnir Multiibit, can be bought used now. and remember that the Schiit price on their website is about 1/2 the price that it would be if it were sold in brick and mortar buildings-
ben, in my experience, all things being equal, the biggest factor contributing to the soundstage depth is the distance of the speakers from the wall behind them, regardless of the speakers’ brand or model. With open baffles the affect is even more pronounced since they act as bi-polar transducers and create more sound pressure behind them when compared to typical box speakers. I personally don’t think the “electronics” will give you the depth you’re looking for. Other attributes maybe but not depth.
kalali" the biggest factor contributing to the soundstage depth is the distance of the speakers from the wall behind them, regardless of the speakers’ brand or model. With open baffles the affect is even more pronounced since they act as bi-polar transducers"
This is completely wrong and reveals a profound ignorance of loudspeaker design and misunderstanding of their application, installation, and interaction with they're surroundings an "open baffle" speaker is not at all bipolar it would function as a dipole speaker which has characteristics and effects unique to dipolar designs and shares little to nothing in common with any bipolar speaker of which type several models do indeed exist.
Well, without jumping into the fray, generally speaking, if you want better imaging, you must improve the acoustics in the dimension that is lacking. If you want depth, then the acoustics behind the speaker's matter most, which can be improved in a variety of ways. Moving the speakers as well as adding absorption and diffusion behind them both work well.
However, the space behind the listener also matters. If you want width, pay attention to the acoustics to the sides.
Understandable with your $800 budget, but if you could stretch that to about $1100, you could get an Ayre Codex used, and have a killer combo with the Bluesound Node 2...IMO Cheers, Tim
What about the Denafrips Ares at about $700. Many with experience with the Denafrips line up say the various models are close to the 5K highly regarded Terminator.
A little over your budget at $1099. The RME ADI 2-DAC. Made in Germany. The company has been around for 20 years building various components for professional studios. It's also a high end Headphone & IEM unit. Features include a 5 band parametric EQ, fast Bass/Treble adjustment. Crossed and a new concept in Loudness control. Lot's of extras as it comes w/a 65 page book and a hand remote. Just bought mine and it gives a huge soundstage w/ ruler flat bass control.
If I were trying to get to the bottom of why my system sounded too ’forward’, I would probably look at the spec sheets of my components and speakers and see if any had a bit of a bump around 5Kh.
Since depth is dependent on the timing cues reaching your ear, if the room is not acoustically treated properly, the early reflections from hard surfaces, I imagine, could confuse the ears.
How well is your room acoustically treated?
With any high end eqipment, or even entry level audiophile components and speakers, the stereo imaging shouldn’t be a problem, assuming it is a good recording.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
