DAC and Amplifier Synergy?

@bluethinker

FYI, in my experience, the Hegel H390 is definitely neutral (albeit with a slightly rolled off top end) and "propulsive".

Check the Listen Up! website. They often have open box units for sale and accept returns. One way to audition one at home.

https://listenup.com/collections/vendors?q=Hegel

I expect Listen Up! carries Hegel’s new standalone DAC as well, in case you want to try out the pair.

With DACs commonlly featuring 32 bits, and having very capable volume controls  can for those with digital only sources offer direct DAC to amp connection. In such a system compatability of impedance considerations and output voltage of the DAC and input sensitivity of the amp can be crucial for optimal system matching.

I find that you really need to experiment for yourself. Unfortunately you can read all you want from reviews and forum posts, what you hear in your own room with your own ears won’t always agree.

I tried the easy route and used Luxman  for my DAC, preamp, and amplifier. I thought they should play well together since they are from the same designer. Ended up not quite loving it. After a lot of swapping and experimenting I discovered I love the Luxman pre and amp combo, but didn’t love their DAC as much. Switched that out for a Modwright DAC and achieved the bliss I had been chasing. So to me it seems like even matching the brand isn’t always a sure thing.

I rebuilt my office system since I recently lost a bigger room to a much smaller space. I had Magnepan LRS+ in the bigger space. I sold them and bought some used Magnepan Mini. I am in near field listening with this setup, almost like headphones.

The best sound I got from this setup was with a CODA #16 amp and the Schitt Yggi+ OG DAC. Now this is a crazy price difference between the electronics and the speakers so that was not going to last. I also needed the amp and DAC for my big system.

After a lot of permutations with gear, speaker cables, sub, and placement. I came to a realization. The Schitt stack that I am using now has some great synergy and is almost as good as the CODA #16 and the Yggi+ system. The speakers are not that great to really get much of a delta in improvement with the more expensive gear. Really good speakers, but not great, the soundstage is great.

Schitt has a stack, Giga Stack, they are calling their answer to an integrated amp with DAC. I am now using the same thing; except I am using the Schitt Yggi+ LIM DAC. The LIM DAC is likely not as good overall as the DAC in the Giga Stack package they are selling. There is some great synergy with this setup. The Wotan F amp is as good as 2 $8k amps I have owned. The Kara F preamp is rather good and has 3 outputs for speaker, sub, and my headphone amp. For an office this is an amazing set of gear.

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Made in USA

Is it better than the Luxman, I would say yes. I like Luxman but the Wotan is a powerful beast and clean sounding. The Yggi+ DACs, even the worst one, the LIM, is coming from a DAC designer with a very impressive pedigree. I plan on upgrading the LIM DAC in the summer when the next iteration of the Yggi+ come out. The Gungnir 2 DAC in the Giga Stack is a step towards the next iteration of the Yggi+.

BTW - I got the Forkbeard option on the Kara F and Wotam F. I find it very useful to be able to control each unit with my iPhone, especially the amp.

@soix - I know you are a respected poster. And I appreciate your knowledge…

I feel you’ve made your point. 

Your initial response to me as to what you’re looking for…

I think that is part of the puzzle for me. Initially I thought I really liked a warm and relaxing sound. I set up my main system to accomplish just that. But now I’m realizing I might prefer a more neutral and propulsive presentation...

Then that turns into…

Not necessarily looking for that system to be overly propulsive and energized. Rather, for that room, leaning towards some warmth is good.

These statements are polar opposite and this was not a “misunderstanding” at all so do not call it that because this is all on you and your total miscommunication. I very clearly understood what you initially wrote above, you just wrote it completely backwards. If you’re gonna ask people to spend their valuable time helping you the least you can do is put just a little effort into accurately communicating what you’re asking for.

For everyone else interested in the topic, my preference for my primary system is now focused on more neutrality and propulsiveness. Office system is different. 

@soix - Thanks for your time. And sorry for the misunderstanding. Hope you enjoy rest of the day. 

Not necessarily looking for that system to be overly propulsive and energized. Rather, for that room, leaning towards some warmth is good. 

That is exactly the opposite of what you wrote in your response to me.  That’s inconsiderate and this was a total waste of my time/effort and I’m out. 

@soix - Thanks for your ideas. I should have been clearer. The Luxman 590axii, T+A Dac 200, and Graham LS3/5a system is more my office. Not necessarily looking for that system to be overly propulsive and energized. Rather, for that room, leaning towards some warmth is good. 

But now I'm realizing I might prefer a more neutral and propulsive presentation... 

I would not think LS3/5a speakers would fit with this at all.  Some excellent speakers off the top of my head in that price range that’d be much more inline with those goals would be ATC SCM19, Fritz Carbon 7, Joseph Audio Prizm, Usher Dancer Mini-X, but there are many more.  Ditto the Luxman amp — my mind immediately went to Hegel although there are others.  Then again, maybe the Luxman with the above speakers would give you enough neutrality and propulsion as it’s all about tastes/synergy, but the LS3/5a would be a non starter for me.  The T+A DAC should be fine, and I’d add Bricasti or Meitner among others.  Just some thoughts/ideas FWIW, and best of luck. 

@soix - Thank you. I 100% agree. You are absolutely right.

I think that is part of the puzzle for me. Initially I thought I really liked a warm and relaxing sound. I set up my main system to accomplish just that. But now I'm realizing I might prefer a more neutral and propulsive presentation... 

So, to restate my initial question, I'd welcome hearing perspectives on DAC/Amp synergy (or lack of it) based on the desired sound you are looking to accomplish. 

This all completely depends on what sound characteristics you’re looking for.