Curious How These Nordost Speaker Cables Do What They Do
For a day and a half I’ve been listening to Nordost Red Dawn Rev.II cables in my system(Quad VA-One and Dynaudio Excite X14),courtesy of a friend who is in turn demo’ing some ungodly expensive upgrade...My reference are the Acoustic Zen Epoch..What these cables have brought to my system are: The first thing I noticed is the music seems to come easier,ie:a touch louder than normal at low levels and it’s so clean I find I’m listening louder.. wider,deeper,and sharper defined imaging and staging...deeper,better defined and tonally richer bass...increased low level detail retrieval...a treble that is not as easy on the ears but seems better defined,almost sharp and I can see where some systems could move way to far into bright with these cables... So I attribute the cleaner/sharper tone to the addition of high purity silver to the cable but I wonder what it is about the materials and construction that allow the bass,imaging and staging changes and especially the ease which music seems to come now?Any comments(from those who have found cables do matter)and NOT from those who believe they are snake oil PLEASE!!!
First, keep in mind that a voltage must always be defined relative to some point, i.e., it exists between two points. It is not meaningful to simply think that "the neutral rail is always at zero volts."
In the case of a light bulb the terminal that is connected to AC "hot" is at 120 volts relative to the terminal that is connected to AC "neutral," which in turn is at or very close to zero volts relative to earth ground. In the case of a speaker cable the + wire is at some voltage relative to the - wire, depending on the signal at any given instant, and depending on the design of the amp the voltage on the - wire may or may not be at zero volts relative to the amp’s circuit ground, or relative to AC neutral, AC safety ground, and earth ground. For example, "fully balanced" amps and bridged mono amps both have full amplitude signals on both their + and - output terminals, with the voltages on those terminals differing from each other simply in that they have opposite polarities.
The current that is provided to a speaker by an amp, as well as the current that is provided to a light bulb by the incoming AC, both result from a voltage **difference** that is applied between the two conductors. The fact that one conductor may be at zero volts relative to some reference has no relevance to that.
Also, ieales comment above that relates to this ...
If the current were different in each leg of the cable, energy would either be gained or lost.
Apply a steady 1kHz 1V signal to a speaker. Regardless of where an ammeter is inserted in the circuit, the RMS current is the same.
Apparently current travels very slowly, the drift velocity of electrons being what, about 80 cm per hour. Thus the net velocity of current back and forth is zero. Also apparently, voltage is an electromagnetic field that has no velocity only direction, alternating with the current. Or maybe is does have velocity, maybe it’s a wave, it does not matter for this argument.
Thus, as regards the argument of fuse or wire directionality in AC circuits, it certainly appears that one should not care about the “relative audibility” of either current/voltage when they are traveling away from the speakers/amplier. One should only care about the relative audibility of current/voltage when they are traveling in the direction toward the speakers/amplifier. This is why the direction of fuses and wire in general is audible in AC circuits as well as DC circuits. In other words, it’s an old wives tale that fuses or cables cannot be “directional” in AC circuits. This also explains why all Audioquest cables AND power cords are “controlled for directionality,” even the tiny strands that comprise the conductors of their new power cords.
Are you still on your cable search? Did you end up comparing the Audience SX with the Cardas Clear Beyond interconnects? If so, what did you find?
I had the Audience Au24 SX XLRs and the Synergistic Research Atmosphere Level 4 XLRs in for comparison against the Cardas Clear Reflection XLRs.
I chose the SR L-4s. I wasn’t able to get the Cardas Clear or Cardas Clear Beyond in on loan for the comparison (and I really wish I had been able to).
Since the OP hasn’t asked about the Audience SX cables or the others I compared, PM me and I’ll be happy to share my impressions.
@jmcgrogan2 +1, squared. Tone control is a very apt description of cabling, along with your statement about choosing components or cables to do so, more or less. Systems with no onboard tone controls in my experience, have seemed to be more responsive to cable changes than those with. Don't know why - perhaps coincidence. And thanks to the op freediver for asking a question that sometimes brings out less than useful comments from the peanut gallery.
@audiosens. Is it possible that what you perceive as a lack of warmth really means a lack of added coloration? That the red dawns are just conveying the music without adding much to it?
Yes perhaps that is better stated indeed. Part of the reason for going with Nordost in my system, to help tame some of the unruly bass colourations present in my system/room. As I said purely a tone control.....lol
1² = 1. Sorry, couldn't resist, but it illustrates some of the noise here that does not say anything.
Systems with no onboard tone controls in my experience, have seemed to be more responsive to cable changes than those with.
Absolutely! Many devices have the Tone Control in circuit all the time. Seldom are they flat. Stepped controls may be better if they use discrete matched parts. MidFi units may use stepped continuous pots and standard ±10% RC.
I use a passive control 0 to -22db in 1 ±0.05db steps of my own design. BTW, anybody thinking of buying a stepped passive, unless it is made for your system, the steps may not be even.
An advantage of a stepped external control is that it is not subject to the vagaries of component internal temperature. Continuous controls can vary audibly with temperature change and dual controls seldom track as well as high quality individual resistors. Throw in a balance control for good measure and it's never gonna be the same twice! Some device buffer gain, tone and balance controls, adding yet another three amplifier stages.
Digital controls can be very good if properly implemented.
FWIW, I note the reference step level on every disc so that if I evaluate another component I can match the level exactly. OK, < 0.5db.
There is an old expression that seems appropriate at this juncture: "Out of the frying pan, and into the fire"
I have a friend who had an extra pair of Nordost Valhalla Reference speaker ribbons he had no use for, so he gave them to me.
At the time, my 1975 Advents were connected to the receiver with Monster Cable Audiophile grade lamp cord.
To go from $5 speaker wire to $5600/1-meter pair was the equivalent of going from a paper airplane to an F-35A Strike Fighter.
I have no other reference, except to say that this was a huge improvement. I have no problem with bass, and the mid-to-high end seems to flow effortlessly.
The Nordost literature says the signal is traveling at 96% the speed of light...maybe that is the secret.
Can I be friends with your friend too please! Nice to know there are some people who just happen to have Valhalla cables "lying" around gathering dust! Yikes!
You ask an excellent question, freediver. A few who have posted here touched on the technical reasons, but no one has given a clear and complete explanation. I can't either. But, there's no doubt that complex things are happening in cables that affect what we hear in a big way. My own system has 3 brands of high-end cable that work well for me, but there's no point in naming them because what works for you could be different. Here are the things to remember:
Speaker cable interacts strongly with both speaker and amp. Get to know a dealer who sells both, because he will have experimented with lots of cables, and he'll know what works well. In my case, since both the speakers and monoblocs are by MBL, my dealer has lots of experience with what goes on both ends of the cable.
Quality doesn't necessarily always increase with price.
There is at least one prominent company out there (I won't say) that sells overpriced snake oil. You'll be able to figure out who it is if you pay close attention to their ads in TAS and Stereophile, as they use lots of pseudo-scientific words designed to make you think they have discovered magic.
Interconnect is important also, but in my experience what's good with one brand of source / pre / amp is good with others. Once you choose a speaker cable, maybe a good experiment is to try the same manufacturer's interconnect.
Trust your ears.
A cable company that has a lending library can be your friend in this.
After you've chosen speaker and interconnect cables, listen to power cords. I thought that was lunacy at first, but it's not, and now I have all that plus a power conditioner.
I hate to sound so definitive about anything, but for me and a lot of music lovers, Transparent is uniquely guided by, and committed to allowing your audio system to recreate music with such an utterly natural and noiseless environment that it becomes completely immersive!
The two major brand cables with the worst sounding audio shows are the Transparent and High Fidelity cables. The best I've heard at half a dozen shows has been the Mastersound cables. Grover Huffman cables would be next. Triode Labs wires in shows always sounds good. Why is it that the most expensive cables from Transparent and High Fidelity ruin fine equipment at shows? I have also auditioned High Fidelity cables in an $800,000 home system (AvantGarde Trios, 3X Basshorns, Caliburn/Cobra analog, etc). and replacing the bright, forward and boomy sounding High Fidelity cables (2 ICs and 2 A/Cs) costing $40,000+ with Grover Huffman (elaborate design) for $2,200 brought the system into balance. I bet even similarly low cost Triode Wires or more expensive Kubala wiring would have sounded great but the bright/boomy wires of several high end brands are terrible sounding in every system I;ve heard them in.
Of all the conversations about conductors and signal path “science” what I see very little comment on is one of Nordost’s most prominent physical characteristics. This differentiates it from most other brands, and with the Norse 2 and up lines is the dual-monofilament suspension of the conductor (not to mention Fluorinated Ethylene Propylene (FEP) sheathing. It seems these days more and more highly transparent cable brands (ie Tara Labs square conductor, Black Cat foamed or woven, just to name a couple) amongst other things are trying to eliminate the effects of say smearing and discoloration, etc with a form of air-dielectric.
To my ears, regardless of any kind of scientific explanation needed, I find this kind of cable, especially in the front end of a kit, and especially with preamplified analogue signals to be very adventurous and inviting.
What I hear from these types of designs appears very consistently truer them most. With a somewhat neutral kit where one is not tonally compensating for a gross imbalance or short-coming, these designs seem to ring a little truer. Like almost no wire (influence) at all.
All imho, so certainly I like the price/performance ratio of the TYR Norse 2 product line. Your mileage may very...
People, PLEASE! I am an electrician. OK, These Nordost cables might be quite good quality. They sure are expensive. But you are plugging them into a mains socket with just bog standard twin and earth cable which is supplying the power to that point on your wall. A bog standard cable, I might add, that may well be over 20m, 30m, 40m or more in length which will be acting like a natural antenna. Top end hifi will filter all this noise out before it is supplied to the main power transformer within the equipment WHATEVER TYPE OF POWER CABLE YOU USE FROM MAINS WALL SOCKET TO HIFI BOX.. Snake oil ? Darn tootin' !
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