Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure
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Parameters (from Cube Audio):
Power: 40 W
Efficiency: 92 dB
Frequency response: 30Hz - 18kHz ( 6db)*
Dimensions: 30 x 50 x 105 cm
Weight: 40 Kg
wow! Charles |
I had a similar experience with my Nenuphar Mini’s. Bsically, the first year I owned them it was a love/hate experience. Often, I was enamored with the sound and loved the transparency without harshness. However, as my previous posts mention, I struggled with imaging and often the speakers would "beam" especially with vocals, and/or the soundstage would be tilted to the left side of the listening area, which I attributed to my room. However, I moved houses and have a bigger room and still had the issue. I upgraded the drivers, tried different components, cables, power conditioners, amps, even Dirac room correction. And I tried positioning speakers all over and adjusted toe in. I even reoriented the entire room which helped but eventually my wife veto’d (to her credit she let me get away with it for a few months). Some changes made improvements but couldn’t quite get it to consistently sound the way I wanted.. One day earlier this year I was getting a little frustrated and went to a local store to demo some Sonus Faber’s which they had hooked up to a Luxman integrated (liked the speakers, but more impressed with the integrated). The imaging was excellent and I noticed the speakers were closer together than I had tried and toe’d in. I had tried putting mine close together but didn’t really try toing in. I went home and started with the speakers really close together (about 5’) and toed in so they "connected" at the MLP. It was an improvement. I started pulling the speakers further apart a few inches at a time and keeping toe in towards the MLP. Eventually I got to the spot they’re at now. I took measurements and made a diagram, just in case they get moved accidentally! Now, I’m getting amazing imaging, detail, depth depth depth (which I think is the hardest attribute to achieve) and tone. Speakers completely disappear. What’s interesting is that I’m pretty sure I’ve had the speakers in about the same spot as I ended up with, but maybe they’re toed in a little more and they’re a couple inches narrower. Just shows a couple inches can make a big difference. I also think it really did take a while for the drivers to break in. If some people say 100 hours, that’s listening for about 2 hours each week. Well, some weeks I don’t listen at all as I travel for work or am too busy. And, when I do listen I would say most of the time is at low volume as I’m working or it’s early in the morning and I don’t want to wake the house. So, it may have just taken a long time to break in the drivers. Either way, I’m loving these speakers at this point. I just acquired a Line Magnetic 845 Premium and I’m blown away by how much better it sounds vs the 518. This is the best sound I’ve ever had and I really don’t think I’m making any changes for awhile. But, I have been following the Sachs 300b thread and might be interested in those down the road potentially, maybe. Once I sell the LM 518 and my Primaluna Evo300 amp (both are excellent but the 845P is in another league) I’ll probably get a solid state amp (thinking Atmasphere GaNFET) to use in the warmer months since the 845P is a heater as well as an amp. But, other than that I am sticking with the Nenuphar Mini’s. |
What a marvelous (Delayed 😊) outcome for you. Very interesting and glad you shared this experience. I’m not at all surprised that the higher level/tier amplifier has made such an improvement. I happen to be one of those who believe strongly that amplifiers most definitely matter. No doubt that your latest amplifier has better transformers/power supply/parts overall. It simply matters a lot. Your speakers are of such high quality that they will easily reveal any differences among amplifiers. Yours is a very good example of patience and diligence paying off in the end. Charles |
Hey guys. It’s good to be back. Charles has been encouraging and nudging me to do so. I had the privilege to finally meet him in person last month. I chose to take a break from audio and pursue other hobbies, etc., over the past nine months. I’m still into all things audio (including Cube / Nenuphar) and have been recently exploring the world of higher end wireless / Bluetooth headphones. Great to hear some of you, based on the recent posts, have been learning about and enjoying your Nenuphars / Jazzons. There are private messages I need to respond to. I’ll get to them over the next day or two. |
@david_ten Welcome back David! You were missed. @abd1 It’s good to hear that your Nenuphar Mini’s have “come on voice”. I too experienced a VERY extended break-in period with my Nenuphar V2’s and sometimes doubted my choice during that time, but once the Nenuphars settled in I could not be happier. Re: the Atma-Sphere GaNFET as a potential “warmer months” amplifier choice with your Nenuphar Minis; based on the published output impedance spec of ~0.010 ohms, their damping factor into an 8 ohm load would be very high, making them a poor compatibility choice with your Minis. As @whitestix @charles1dad state above, amplifier choice is very critical to achieving balanced tonality with the Cube full-range drivers, so choose an amplifier with higher output impedance (think ~ 0.8 ohms optimally) and thus a low damping factor (think 10 or so optimally). The Enleum 23R is said by many to work very well. |
The Enleum is also an amp that I'd consider, as well as LTA amps, which are tube based but don't get that hot. I know the Cubes are supposed to sound better with low damped amps. I've tried a bunch of amps and have found these speakers sound great with all types. I tried a SIT-3 that everyone says pairs great and while I liked it I didn't find it that engaging and wound up selling it. I also tried an LSA GaNFET (with a tube pre) that was really inexpensive and I really liked it. It was a touch dry but also very detailed and transparent. I think what I've learned is some amps that on paper may not seem like a great match can sound excellent. One thing I love about these speakers is that they're transparent enough that it is fairly easy to hear almost any change in the system. That can be fun but also a little dangerous 😉
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Absolutely right. Cube Audio very explicitly has made this point concerning low output impedance amplifiers ( High damping factor). Too much DF with their driver will be excessively damped, not good. I’d heed the guidance of the actual developers of this excellent speaker. Charles |
@larryi Cube Audio primarily pairs their speakers with Tekron 2a3 SET tube amps for shows and demos. Sometimes the US Distributor uses First Watt SIT amplifiers at shows. Very unique solid state amplifiers designed by Nelson Pass that behave electrically and sonically like SET tube amps. The SIT-1 and SIT-2 have an output impedance of 4 ohms and a damping factor of 2 while the SIT-3 has a less ideal .25 ohm/30 DF rating. This review explains in all thoroughly: https://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/cubeaudio2/6.html |
@dlcockrum @whitestix @charles1dad Thanks! |
I noticed a comment on the previous page regarding Refined Audio, so I just checked. They continue to import and represent Cube Audio. In fact, in case someone is interested: a Nenuphar BASiS is listed at a healthy discount 😊 here >>>> Refined Audio Cube Audio Speakers
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I've been researching the Nenuphar Mini's for a few weeks. Given that there's no way for me to audition them, I have been mainly gathering data from youtube videos and forums like this. Frankly, the more I read, the more confused I get :) Some people claim they are not easy to work with, requiring very specific amplification and being very fussy with placement. I've also heard that the bass is anemic. Yet, there are many who claim they're the best speakers they've owned regardless of price or pedigree. In other words, there doesn't seem to be a consensus, which should not be surprising to most seasoned audiophiles, haha! My question: how well will they do with Audio Research Reference 250 mono blocks. Here are the specs for the amp:
My room is roughly 20x15 with 11 foot ceilings. I do have a pair of subs to augment the lower frequencies. Any feedback is greatly appreciated. |
I don't have the Mini's but have the Nenuphars with the upgraded v2 drivers. I believe both follows the same design philosophy. In my experience, the bass can be very anemic if you have an amp with high damping factor. The Cubes in general like low damping factor and least or no -ive feedback amps. When these two conditions are met, the Cubes do really sounds very musical. These speakers are ruthlessly revealing and will show every weakness or strength in your system. When I get a new cable or any component that needs break-in, I can't hear the speakers until the cables or components break-in totally. What I am trying to say is every small little things in the chain will matter in how they sound.
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I’ve had a pair of Nenuphar mini’s upgraded to the v2 drivers for about 4-5 years. That is the longest I’ve owned a pair of speakers for which is saying something. They aren’t perfect but what they do well they do so well. They have just a very natural sound that is very detailed without sounding analytical. When set up properly and in a good space they image exceptionally well and deep. Being a single driver the sound is beautifully coherent. It’s hard for me to describe what that means until you hear it. They will pull out every ounce of performance from your system as they are very revealing. I’ve never had speakers that reveal changes in my system like these. Different amps, tubes, dacs, cables, etc. if you change something you will hear it. A friend of mine says they have a “lit up” sound, which I think is a good description. Theyre not bright but you hear everything in the music. Regarding amps… I’ve used many with these speakers. As others have said I feel they sound best with low damped, low or zero negative feedback amps. I’ve used a few tube amps including a Tektron and even a 2 wpc 45 amp and they’ve all sounded fantastic. I’ve used the first watt SIT3 and some other solid state amps, including class D ganfet amps. None sounded bad but I’ve always gone back to the tubes with these speakers. I was actually surprised by the ganfet amp and the mids and highs were some of the clearest and most detailed I’ve heard. Bass had good detail too but wasn’t as weighty as the tube amps which I prefer. However, because I also have a pair of subs I’m not missing anything in the bass. Since you have subs you’ll have more options with amps with these speakers. From what I’ve read the reason these speakers like amps that have low damping is because the driver is well damped and controlled. Adding a high damping factor amp puts even more control on the driver perhaps restricting it somewhat in regards to bass. I’m not the designer or super techy but I either read or heard something like that about these drivers. I’m currently using a Line Magnetic LM845 Premium amp and an LTA ZOTL 40 Ref+ amp, both being fed by a Holo Serene KTE preamp. Both amps sound fantastic and different. The LTA is crystal clear and more detailed, unlike any other tube amp I’ve heard. And it should since it’s not like most tube amps, but it’s not a solid state sound either but it’s transparent like a solid state amp and I can hear very deep into the music. The Line Magnetic has a more romantic, fuller sound. Everything sounds more lush, perhaps a little bigger, but with slightly less detail. Both sound beautiful in their own ways. As far as weaknesses of these speakers the bass isn’t going to thump you in the chest. But they do get very good bass probably into the lower 40hz region. The bass is also very tubeful and textured. Almost like an open baffle speaker but maybe with a bit more heft. Again, blend in a pair of subs and you won’t be lacking bass. I use a pair of REL S510s and my room is similar in size to yours and when my wife and I get into listening we can make the windows shake. My wife is actually the bass head and she loves these speakers with the RELs. So much so that I might upgrade to the REL carbon specials even though I already have plenty of output. I would also say that I’ve learned that these speakers can be a little tricky to set up. I struggled for a while having the sound beam from the drivers. It would sound like headphones and the center image would pan left or right but not be separated from the speakers, which is one thing I love when listening to music. It was frustrating. But I learned that this can be common with single driver speakers because when you use a larger driver, especially in the vocal regions, the sound doesn’t disperse as much as something small like a 1” tweeter. My early attempts to create better imaging was to love the speakers further apart to the point they were really wide, hoping I would get a great center image. This failed miserably. I also played with toe in and got good results when I toed in aggressively, basically crossing the speakers a foot or so before the listening position. But doing this also created a narrow soundstage and did some weird things with the depth. One day I decided to try positioning again and since I had recently learned that single drivers can be prone to beaming I started with the speakers very close together and the started slowly moving them apart. That’s when I had the eureka moment. Basically, my experience is that these speakers like to be closer together than I’m used to. I would estimate I sit 12-15 feet from the speakers and they’re about 7’ apart. I also tow in slightly, 5-10 degrees. Now they image beautifully. I get depth, width outside the speakers and height. I will say I’ve had speakers with bigger sweet spots but i haven’t had speakers that are this pin point, deep and real sounding. One other plus with these speakers is they are the best low volume speakers I’ve heard. That’s important to me because I often listen early in the morning when my wife is still sleeping. The music room is just outside the bedroom. I can listen at low volumes and not feel like I’m missing anything in the music and I’ve never woken her up. I’ll end with this… About a year ago I told my wife I may want to try other speakers. Not because I don’t love the Nenuphar Mini’s but simply because I’ve had them a few years, longer than any speaker I’ve had, and just wanted to try something else. I’ve demo’s some speakers that I’ve lusted after but I still have the Nenuphars Minis. After each demo, even if I came away impressed with the other speaker, once I came back home and turned them on I was immediately resold on the Cubes. Are they perfect? No. But, to me, what they do well they do so very well. So much so that I can’t let my grip on them go. Or maybe it’s their grip on me that I can’t seem to separate from. |
@abd1 From what Ive read elsewhere the First Watt Sit amps work better with the V1 models due to the different ohms factor. Still have my V1 Mini's brand new in the crate (Ford Mustang Blue) Great write-up above. Im sure I'll find your notes very useful so thanks for that!! |
@arafiq Here is a link to a YOUTUBE Vid from Cube Audio comparing 2A3, 300B, 211 with their speakers. Hope you find it useful.
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I really appreciate the detailed responses and the video link to my initial query. There's no doubt that this is a very good speaker, however, doesn't seem to be a good fit for my amps. Based on what I'm reading, it will most likely result in overdamping. Secondly, my concerns about the Neunephars being not the easiest to position are also somewhat confirmed by the responses. I've also talked to some owners and sounds like resale is perhaps below average. I do see several used Cube Audio speakers going for less than 50% and still not moving. Of course, this does not mean they're less than stellar, but the fact remains that buying without first auditioning in my system is a risky endeavor -- especially, given the speakers are highly dependent on amp pairing. I don't want to go down the flea watt amp route at this time. Having said that, I do want to explore speakers which are not your typical multiple dynamic cone drivers in an inert cabinet. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I'm kinda bored with the same old same old. I really like my Magnepan 3.7i speakers but they have several deficiencies that are hard to live with long term. I'm going to explore omni-directional -- MBLs or German Physiks as my next step. Again, thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. |
