Stephen, Thanks for sharing your initial listening impressions, you obviously had quite an enjoyable and insightful experience. It will only improve from its excellent debut. I have no doubt the Nenuphar sounds fantastic with either of your amplifiers. It’s great to read that you are presented with such realism and ’completeness’. You must be thrilled with your decision to purchase these superb speakers. "a feeling of encountering the real thing" That sums it up beautifully. Charles |
Stephen, I’m pleased to hear that you are enjoying the Cube Nenuphar’s. Thanks for your initial review and I look forward to your further thoughts.
|
My apologies for posting such a first blush reaction after just two days of listening to the Nenuphars, but the experience has been so extraordinary that there is an irresistible need to share--although I know there are some here who've already inhaled.
My first response was an unexpected sense of relief, not just a letting go of my concern over making the right choice, but a relief of years of searching for something I hoped was out there but hadn't yet found. Well, I heard it once when I spent a few hours auditioning a pair of Sonus Faber Aidas (the original version) in 2014. But trying to find something that did all that in my price range and able to work in my room with my preference for low watt amps seemed to be futile. Lots of good experiences a long the way to be sure, but not this sense of having arrived, of hearing the music so powerfully that it overwhelmed any considerations of doubt, of wanting more of anything, of something missing. No, I'm not claiming the Nenuphars sound like the Aidas (or even that that's an appropriate comparison). What I'm saying is listening to the Nenuphars brought on the same feeling I had when I listened to the Aidas: a holy-cow-kind-of-transportation, a feeling of encountering the real thing, an immersion into where the recording is taking you, like the struggle is over and there's nothing left but to face the music.
It seems contrary to single out something when I'm really trying to convey a sense of "completeness", something Shindo gear owners (c'est moi) have been known to brag about, but the human voice through the Nenuphars startled me with nuance, color, and pitch I never knew was there. I first twigged to this listening to the channel identification track on the Stereophile set-up CD. This is always one of the first listens with new gear--mainly to get the balance spot on. Through the Nenuphars I heard layers of nuance in the gentleman's voice who says, "The fender bass guitar you are about to hear should appear to come from the left loudspeaker only," that made him sound like someone I had never met standing in my room. My thought was, "if this loudspeaker can bring that level of truth out of a simple speaking voice, what will it do with song, with strings, with..."
Until the last hour of listening, I've been driving the Nenuphars with my LTA Ultralinear. I just put in a First Watt SIT-3. So far I'm still lost in the music and can't tell you which one I'm going to keep.
Ok, I know, calm down. I'll give the speakers a chance to come into their own and then I'll tell you how I really feel.
|
Just as a data point for folks. I reached out to Jon at Refined Audio and he noted that he had a *slight* preference for the presentation of the 8" neo driver over the 10" one. And also that it sounds great in a 1 cubic foot
sealed
box. |
Steve, let me know about Sablon I might be able to arrange a trial.
|
Steve, I believe at a lower price point the Tekton Perfect SET and the Canadian Coherent Audio speakers may have come close to your wish list. However when many factors are taken into consideration the Nenuphar remains very formidable. I just get the sense this speaker personifies 'naturalness' which is a quality many speakers fail to achieve. Charles |
Thanks for your feedback, David.
Once things have settled in, I'm going to audition the Sablon speaker cables, the Synergistic Research Foundations (a relatively new cable getting some good buzz) and one other, depending on what I can get either through Cable Company or with a decent return policy. I'll research Scott Sheaffer's cables but the Allnics I believe are out of my price range.
And thanks Charles for your encouragement.
Just FYI, these are the boxes I wanted to check during my new speaker search (started a couple of years ago) that lead me to the Nenuphars:
1. high efficiency to work with lower powered SET "type" tube or ss amps
2. relatively small size and not too finicky about room placement
3. will sing at low volume levels
4. suitable for standard near field listening
5. accurate base down to 28HZ +/- 3db
6. holographic sound staging
7. tonally rich but accurate tone without unnatural warmth or roundness
8. priced under $12K
The Nenuphars miss slightly on items 5 and 8, but I was surprised how few speakers came that close, i. e. none. The NSMT Model 100 (reviewed by Terry London for 6Moons) were the closest runner up, but the manufacturer recommended at least 50 watts per channel (despite being 91db efficient) and they had a separately amped bass driver which I've always been wary of seamlessly integrating. I'm sure I missed some other possibilities out there but also sure the Nenuphars will fit the bill!
|
@stephendunn It's going to be quite a Tuesday! : )
I concur with Charles.
I'm curious to learn how your Shindo source and pre sound via the Nenuphars, once the speakers are broken in.
Re. your cable question: I am using Scott Sheaffer's analog cables. If you are interested in reaching out to him, let me know.
Synergistic Research for power and digital cables. |
Hi Steve, Congratulations! I believe you have made a wonderful decision in choosing the Nenuphar. Based on what I've been able to learn about this speaker from owners and reviews I feel it sets a new upper tier standard among single driver speakers. Given your current components and power amplifiers, IMHO you will have superb sound quality and beautiful music reproduction. If I were constructing a new audio system today I'd begin with the Nenuphar. Charles |
|
|
|
Steve, I like Sablon cables at a reasonable price. Six Moons have had good results with Allnic ZL5000 cables but at a higher cost. There are so many brands of cables but not many good ones it seems. Clear Day I’m unfamiliar with.
|
|
I don't know what to think about recorded speakers playing through youtube over laptop speakers (or earbuds), but I watched that video and was also impressed. As you point out, at least if everything is the same except for the speakers, the comparisons should offer some information. And you certainly can't argue with Peter's subjective reaction...
|
I just listened to the recently posted AVShowrooms video https://www.avshowrooms.com/cube-audio-nenuphar-loudspeakers.htmland for the first time in my experience I actually thought I could hear something of the quality of these speakers coming through on my cheap earbuds. I then listened to the video review of the Tekton Moabs also on AVShowrooms and sure enough could hear the difference distinctly between the two speakers. Since I'm getting my Nenuphars on Tuesday, this is no doubt anticipatory-audiophilia-I-just-invested-a-car-load-into-speakers-I've never-heard-syndrom (but with a generous 60 day return policy). So take what I say with a bigger grain of salt than usual. I've added a First Watt SIT-3 to my system in the mean time to compare against my LTA Ultralinear. My pre is a Western Electric Shindo Giscour and sources are a Shindo 301 with a Hommage T1 and a Totaldac D-1 and Anthem music server. My speaker cables are Clear Day Double Shotgun which might be a weak link. Love to hear some thoughts about any speaker cable synergy Nenuphar owners have discovered. Thanks, Steve |
@david_ten Thanks David. I think I'm still a year or so out from going this direction, but have been trying to learn a lot about full range drivers to figure out what I might build. I've also been looking at the Audio Nirvana drivers, but I know Nelson Pass has tried them (and many, many more), and apparently he's showing off the Cubes. |
@cal3713 Cube Audio have made slight changes to the 10 inch driver for their integrated-into-cabinet ’subwoofer’ offering.
I recommend checking with Jon Ver Halen (if you are in the U.S.) on driver selection, just in case, since you are planning on adding subs. There may be some advantage to using the ’newer’ design in your planned application.
+1 on what @toetapaudio posted. I also find no need for sub augmentation...and my Nenuphars are pulled far out in the room. Peter Breuninger (and others) find placement closer to the wall only adds to the Nenuphar’s excellent low frequency performance. |
@toetapaudio Thanks for the information. If I went this direction, I'd start by just buying the driver. Was thinking that I'd probably start with open baffle in that case and potentially copy Nelson Pass' approach (
https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-26-nelson-pass-harmonic-distortion-page-2), or use the Cube drivers to replace the head units on my Coincident PREs (again in an open baffle). I'm assuming that the drivers in free air would start dropping off substantially higher than the enclosed 30hz. And given that I listen to quite a bit of electronica with some rap, pop, and hip-hop, I'd need to add in those lower octaves. Essentially, that would be a diy version of the BASiS. |
I haven’t heard them with subs but feel no need for them. |
A question to those of you who have been thinking about these speakers for a while. If you're supplementing with subs, is there any reason to choose cube's 10" drivers over the 8" ones? |
Robert, thanks for posting this. The link above is to AVShowrooms review of the Cube Audio Nenuphar (10 inch) speaker. If you want to hear Peter Breuninger’s closing summary it starts at the 31 minute mark. Jon Ver Halen's discussion about the design of the driver and the speaker is very informative. Here is the main page, that contains more information, including the review Robert links above. https://www.avshowrooms.com/cube-audio-nenuphar-loudspeakers.html |
|
Stephendunn, thanks for letting us know and congratulations. Keep in touch. |
Stephendunn, With the stated output impedance of your OTL amplifier I suspect you're going to have a very fine match with the Nenuphars. Congratulations and I look forward to your upcoming listening impressions. I believe you'll be quite pleased with what you hear. Charles |
@stephendunn Congratulations and welcome! Looking forward to your impressions. |
I am about to join the Nenuphar circle: on order with Jon at RefinedAudio to arrive in a couple of weeks. I actually made this decision before finding this thread, but it's contents have corroborated what I have read elsewhere and provided helpful hints re set up. Thanks.
I will be driving the Nenuphars with a Linear Tube Audio Ultralinear amp, a 20 watt per channel Berning ZOTL with 1.6 ohm out put impedance--a key number in determining capability. Gregorz assures me it will be a good fit--in fact, he mentioned he is working on his own design of an OTL amp.
After break in, I'll come back and give you impressions.
|
Toetapaudio, Thanks for your thorough characterization of these two what I believe are spectacular speakers. I really think that these Cube Audio speakers are cut from a different cloth compared to other single driver wide band speakers. I don't doubt that they sound splendid with transistor amplifiers that avoid over use of NFB and unnecessary damping factor levels. Srajan and Cube Audio have clearly emphasize this point. Charles |
Hi Charles
The soundscape is larger with the Nenuphar’s, as one might expect. The Mini Nenuphar’s would be the choice for medium to smaller spaces and I can see this being the preferred choice here in the U.K.
The sound qualities are similar, both being very open, the feeling of a directness between you and the music, a calmness that allows one to get absorbed into the music. I feel that transients are perhaps dealt with a little better with the Mini, perhaps due to a lower moving mass.
The cabinet designs are similar being TQWT, the Mini cabinet dimensions being smaller. In theory the 10 inch version should produce a lower bass end but in our medium sized listening room I certainly have nor felt I’m missing much if any bass extension.
Due to the revealing nature of these speakers, as has been said by you and others, amp matching is very critical. Don’t assume though that these speakers are for SET’s only. There are some SS amps that clearly work extremely well with them. My own experience with the Bakoon 13R, echoes the praise that Srajan of Six Moons has mentioned about this combination. There are other SS amps that might be compatible as well, like First Watt, Trilogy and possibly Grandinote.
Please ask if there are any other questions.
|
Hi toetapaudio, Other than presumably lower frequency region differences, have you heard other sonic distinctions between the 8" and 10" Cube Audio drivers in your showroom system? Charles |
@ag3, we have both to demo if you are in the U.K.?
What is the size of your room?
|
Anyone have a detailed comparison between the mini and the full size (i.e. the 8" neo vs the 10" neo ?). Obviously a little less on the lows but what else is similar/different ?
If I can get away with 90% of the bass for a bit cheaper I'd lean towards the mini, the big guy is just a bit out of my budget right now.
Thanks guys |
David, I'm not surprised that stepping up to a higher quality better engineered brass spike would be noticeable. Better vibration/resonance management is a worthwhile pursuit. Particularly a speaker the high caliber of the Nenuphar will easily reveal the differences. Charles |
I have replaced the front stock spikes and the rear rubber bumpers with brass spikes, as a first-step isolation effort.
My goal is to maintain the factory height from the floor and the factory angle - front to rear. [Note: the Nenuphar speakers are bottom ported]
I went with Eden Sound's Solid Brass Spike (extra large) for the front with it's matching Point Receiver (extra large) and the Solid Brass Hemi-Spike (extra large) for the rear.
Immediate performance / sound quality differences and upsides. I will report more later. |
@kalali, pricey? Not considering the performance compared with other speakers in the same price group. The Cube Mini Nenuphar’s retail for £10,250 in the U.K. |
May be yes or may be no... As compared to $46,500 for a pair of 5 inch Field-Coil Drivers...and... $23,000 for the cabinets... : ) * ~ June 2009 pricing. |
|
|
I agree, the gryphon diablo is a great amplifier. And i believe the bigger gryphons are some of the best amps - the house sound of gryphon is excellent. However I think it was my choice of speaker being the KEF ref 5s which was the wrong move, they need a softer presentation amplifier probably, and in all honesty as much as i tried to make that combo work, it still did not sound right, certainly not a musical/emotion inducing sound but rather mechanical. It had a district colouration as well. If I had a B&W 802 D3 for example, probably I would have been ok with the diablo and kept things as is. I could have travelled that route, but hearing the nenuphar's over and over again at my friend's, i couldn't resist anymore, also i was craving to get back to tubes - i started with a tube headphone amplifier, changed to SS only when i moved to speakers camp. The nenuphar was made for tubes, so all was good!
The next step for me is getting a pair of the newly announced cube audio sub 12. I always wanted to experience stereo subwoofers, even with the KEF. I was about to buy a pair of REL S/812, then came to know about the cube offering. I opted for it hoping for a better integration, hope that i made the right choice. Will keep you guys posted how it goes!
|
Saleh84, Your Gryphon is an excellent amplifier "with the right speaker". Some speakers demand amplifiers with high current delivery with lower output impedance due to low and difficult to drive load characteristics and often steep phase angles. The Nenuphar is the antithesis of this type of speaker. Your LM 845 wouldn’t be a good choice with these current hungry speakers. I much prefer your LM /Nenuphar approach. Charles |
Hi sale84, Your situation is totally expected and predictable. The designer/builder has clearly stated the Cube Audio Nenuphar is specifically meant to be used with amplifiers possessing 1 little or no NFB 2 Relatively high output impedance 3 low damping factor (DF)
The special single driver has a very powerful magnet/motor assembly and is very well damped and controlled. An amplifier that utilizes high levels of NFB which results in very low output impedance and high damping factor is exactly what you need to avoid.
It is no surprise the superb Nenuphar speaker sounds magnificent with a high quality SET amplifier (Most often zero NFB) such as your Line Magnetic 845 or David_ten’s teriffic 2A3 SET mono blocks. High NFB amplifiers (which yields very low output impedance) are detrimental. IMO the Nenuphar is worth every penny based on feedback I’ve received. BTW solid state amplification are fine as long as they adhere to the designer’s recommendation/ guidelines. Charles |
@saleh84 I second @toetapaudio 's congratulations on acquiring your Cube Audio Nenuphars!!!
Thanks for sharing how incredibly well the speakers are working for you, paired to your Line Magnetic 845 SET amp. |
@saleh84, congratulations on your purchase.
Bakoon 13R is a great match.
|
Is it just me or is 15,000 clams for a single driver speaker pair seem somewhat pricey? I know...it's me...damn... |
Joined the cube audio club recently with a nenuphar. Mind blown! One thing of significant importance: The nenuphar needs the RIGHT amp to show its true colours and abilities. I was replacing both amp and speaker (had a diablo 300 with kef ref 5s). The gryphon was still not sold when nenuphars arrived. I listened with it for a week or so, being very careful with volume. The sound was OK. I thought, its break in, speaker will open up slowly. Then tried an old krell integrated. Seems cause it had a lower damping factor, sound started flowing with more ease. Then, my LM845 premium SET amp arrived! Words can't even describe the amount of change is speaker character. Opened up, singing with ultimate ease. Dymamics exploded, literally. Better everything. Bass changed a lot, it is so deep, fast and extended. Vs the diablo, the sound was out of control and felt congested somehow. Word of advice, if you are going for a cube, you must choose your amp carefully to get the maximum of it. Its a speaker to die for with the right amplification! |
|
Cube Mini Nenuphar’s now on demo. These have the 8 inch driver rather than the 10 inch driver and come in a smaller cabinet. I’m very impressed. |
@sakso136 Which server are you moving to? Regarding the new driver break in, I'd check with Cube to see if they ran those drivers prior to shipping to you...as that might be a factor. They should sound good enough as you have a week and a half on them. You could try higher volumes and a break in specific disc / tracks? Here is a response I sent to @toetapaudio on my personal experience with break in: "....Cube, if memory serves me, felt a few hours of runtime would be sufficient. Jon Ver Halen, the US importer, put it at 40 hours or so. Based on my experience, I peg it at about 150 hours before the Nenuphar start coming into their own. They definitely started sounding better after Jon's recommendation of 40+ hours. So take 40 as a minimum, minimum...with 150 as my personally recommended minimum. For 'full' break-in around 500 hours for musical beauty, wonder and engagement. An industry person I respect and who has significant experience tuning analog gear, felt 1000 hours would be needed. I realize 'hours' of burn-in are a hot topic with folks falling on either side of the divide. I took his feedback and pushed for that 1K mark, after which I consider break in to be complete. However, If I were advising, I'd stick to the 500 hours with folks generally being happy with the results post 200 hours." |
Hi Sasko
The drivers definitely get better with more playtime and settling as David I’m sure will confirm.
We are getting great synergy with the Bakoon 13R amp, highly recommended. I also recommend the speakers being placed on a well designed isolation device, like Townshend Podiums, see my previous post.
I have just added the Puritan PSM156 mains purifier into our system, resulting in a nice uptick in overall system performance. So three Blue Moon Award components working well together. Srajan knows his stuff. 😁
|
Hi guys; i own nenuphar since 5 months and they are superb. system comsists of kassandra ref2 dac+ Server ( coming soon)+ n10 aurender ( a friend loan)+mbl c51 integ. i have few questions: do these drivers needs much time for burn in? I changed 2 drivers due to a small issue on one of the drivers( gregorz sent them to me free );and i am burning them with min volume since a week and a half now and they don t seem to open up yet ! One more question; the mbl is here only temporarily,and my final integ will be the aries cerat genus set integrated, but since i can t afford it now, and since i have a top pass lab preamp clone here , i was thinking to start with either x25 or sit 3, may be audio mirror set monos also. what are your thoughts? thks |