Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

Thanks for the input toetapaudio

Sablon

https://www.dagogo.com/sablon-panatela-speaker-cables-panatela-interconnects-panatela-phono-cable-gr...

My my current favourite 

Allnic review 

https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/allnic/1.html

I haven’t tried yet

Steve, I like Sablon cables at a reasonable price. Six Moons have had good results with Allnic ZL5000 cables but at a higher cost. There are so many brands of cables but not many good ones it seems. Clear Day I’m unfamiliar with.

Also, I've heard this system in person ( https://www.avshowrooms.com/aaudio_imports.html) and do feel like I picked up some of its core essence even via the youtube/computer interface.

I don't know what to think about recorded speakers playing through youtube over laptop speakers (or earbuds), but I watched that video and was also impressed.  As you point out, at least if everything is the same except for the speakers, the comparisons should offer some information.  And you certainly can't argue with Peter's subjective reaction...

I just listened to the recently posted AVShowrooms video https://www.avshowrooms.com/cube-audio-nenuphar-loudspeakers.html
and for the first time in my experience I actually thought I could hear something of the quality of these speakers coming through on my cheap earbuds.  I then listened to the video review of the Tekton Moabs also on AVShowrooms and sure enough could hear the difference distinctly between the two speakers.  

Since I'm getting my Nenuphars on Tuesday, this is no doubt anticipatory-audiophilia-I-just-invested-a-car-load-into-speakers-I've never-heard-syndrom (but with a generous 60 day return policy).  So take what I say with a bigger grain of salt than usual.  

I've added a First Watt SIT-3 to my system in the mean time to compare against my LTA Ultralinear.  My pre is a Western Electric Shindo Giscour
and sources are a Shindo 301 with a Hommage T1 and a Totaldac D-1 and Anthem music server. 

My speaker cables are Clear Day Double Shotgun which might be a weak link.  Love to hear some thoughts about any speaker cable synergy Nenuphar owners have discovered.

Thanks,
Steve

@david_ten Thanks David.  I think I'm still a year or so out from going this direction, but have been trying to learn a lot about full range drivers to figure out what I might build.  I've also been looking at the Audio Nirvana drivers, but I know Nelson Pass has tried them (and many, many more), and apparently he's showing off the Cubes.  

@cal3713 Cube Audio have made slight changes to the 10 inch driver for their integrated-into-cabinet ’subwoofer’ offering.

I recommend checking with Jon Ver Halen (if you are in the U.S.) on driver selection, just in case, since you are planning on adding subs. There may be some advantage to using the ’newer’ design in your planned application.

+1 on what @toetapaudio posted. I also find no need for sub augmentation...and my Nenuphars are pulled far out in the room. Peter Breuninger (and others) find placement closer to the wall only adds to the Nenuphar’s excellent low frequency performance.

@toetapaudio  Thanks for the information.  If I went this direction, I'd start by just buying the driver.  Was thinking that I'd probably start with open baffle in that case and potentially copy Nelson Pass' approach ( https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-26-nelson-pass-harmonic-distortion-page-2), or use the Cube drivers to replace the head units on my Coincident PREs (again in an open baffle).  I'm assuming that the drivers in free air would start dropping off substantially higher than the enclosed 30hz.  And given that I listen to quite a bit of electronica with some rap, pop, and hip-hop, I'd need to add in those lower octaves.  Essentially, that would be a diy version of the BASiS.

I haven’t heard them with subs but feel no need for them.

A question to those of you who have been thinking about these speakers for a while. If you're supplementing with subs, is there any reason to choose cube's 10" drivers over the 8" ones?  

Robert, thanks for posting this. The link above is to AVShowrooms review of the Cube Audio Nenuphar (10 inch) speaker.

If you want to hear Peter Breuninger’s closing summary it starts at the 31 minute mark.

Jon Ver Halen's discussion about the design of the driver and the speaker is very informative.

Here is the main page, that contains more information, including the review Robert links above.

https://www.avshowrooms.com/cube-audio-nenuphar-loudspeakers.html

Stephendunn, thanks for letting us know and congratulations. Keep in touch.

@stephendunn  Congratulations and welcome! Looking forward to your impressions.

I am about to join the Nenuphar circle: on order with Jon at RefinedAudio to arrive in a couple of weeks.  I actually made this decision before finding this thread, but it's contents have corroborated what I have read elsewhere and provided helpful hints re set up.  Thanks.

I will be driving the Nenuphars with a Linear Tube Audio Ultralinear amp, a 20 watt per channel Berning ZOTL with 1.6 ohm out put impedance--a key number in determining capability.  Gregorz assures me it will be a good fit--in fact, he mentioned he is working on his own design of an OTL amp.

After break in, I'll come back and give you impressions.

Toetapaudio,
Thanks for your thorough characterization of these two what I believe are spectacular speakers. I really think that these Cube Audio speakers are cut from a different cloth compared to other single driver wide band speakers. I don't doubt that they sound splendid with transistor amplifiers that avoid over use of NFB and unnecessary damping factor levels. Srajan and Cube Audio have clearly emphasize this point. 
Charles 

Hi Charles

The soundscape is larger with the Nenuphar’s, as one might expect. The Mini Nenuphar’s would be the choice for medium to smaller spaces and I can see this being the preferred choice here in the U.K.

The sound qualities are similar, both being very open, the feeling of a directness between you and the music, a calmness that allows one to get absorbed into the music. I feel that transients are perhaps dealt with a little better with the Mini, perhaps due to a lower moving mass.

The cabinet designs are similar being TQWT, the Mini cabinet dimensions being smaller. In theory the 10 inch version should produce a lower bass end but in our medium sized listening  room I certainly have nor felt I’m missing much if any bass extension.

Due to the revealing nature of these speakers, as has been said by you and others, amp matching is very critical. Don’t assume though that these speakers are for SET’s only. There are some SS amps that clearly work extremely well with them. My own experience with the Bakoon 13R, echoes the praise that Srajan of Six Moons has mentioned about this combination. There are other SS amps that  might be compatible as well, like First Watt, Trilogy and possibly Grandinote.

Please ask if there are any other questions.

Hi toetapaudio,
Other than presumably lower frequency region differences,  have you heard other sonic distinctions between the 8" and 10" Cube Audio drivers in your showroom system?
Charles

@ag3, we have both to demo if you are in the U.K.?

What is the size of your room?

Anyone have a detailed comparison between the mini and the full size (i.e. the 8" neo vs the 10" neo ?). Obviously a little less on the lows but what else is similar/different ?

If I can get away with 90% of the bass for a bit cheaper I'd lean towards the mini, the big guy is just a bit out of my budget right now.

Thanks guys 

I have replaced the front stock spikes and the rear rubber bumpers with brass spikes, as a first-step isolation effort.

My goal is to maintain the factory height from the floor and the factory angle - front to rear. [Note: the Nenuphar speakers are bottom ported]

I went with Eden Sound's Solid Brass Spike (extra large) for the front with it's matching Point Receiver (extra large)  and the Solid Brass Hemi-Spike (extra large) for the rear.

Immediate performance / sound quality differences and upsides. I will report more later.

@kalali, pricey? Not considering the performance compared with other speakers in the same price group. The Cube Mini Nenuphar’s retail for £10,250 in the U.K.

May be yes or may be no...

As compared to $46,500 for a pair of 5 inch Field-Coil Drivers...and...
$23,000 for the cabinets... : )

* ~ June 2009 pricing.

Dawid Grzyb // HiFi Knights addresses this head-on in his review:

http://hifiknights.com/reviews/speakers/cube-audio-nenuphar/

The Cube Audio Nenuphar speakers list for USD $14,900 shipped via Refined Audio, Forest Park, IL (Chicago). Jon Ver Halen is the proprietor.

“... Is it just me or is 15000 clams for a single driver speaker seem somewhat pricey?...”

May be yes or may be no...

https://www.dagogo.com/feastrex-makoto-loudspeaker-system-review/

I agree, the gryphon diablo is a great amplifier. And i believe the bigger gryphons are some of the best amps - the house sound of gryphon is excellent. However I think it was my choice of speaker being the KEF ref 5s which was the wrong move, they need a softer presentation amplifier probably, and in all honesty as much as i tried to make that combo work, it still did not sound right, certainly not a musical/emotion inducing sound but rather mechanical. It had a district colouration as well. If I had a B&W 802 D3 for example, probably I would have been ok with the diablo and kept things as is.
I could have travelled that route, but hearing the nenuphar's over and over again at my friend's, i couldn't resist anymore, also i was craving to get back to tubes - i started with a tube headphone amplifier, changed to SS only when i moved to speakers camp. The nenuphar was made for tubes, so all was good!

The next step for me is getting a pair of the newly announced cube audio sub 12. I always wanted to experience stereo subwoofers, even with the KEF. I was about to buy a pair of REL S/812, then came to know about the cube offering. I opted for it hoping for a better integration, hope that i made the right choice. Will keep you guys posted how it goes! 

Saleh84,
Your Gryphon is an excellent amplifier "with the right speaker". Some speakers demand amplifiers with high current delivery with lower output impedance due to low and difficult to drive load characteristics and often steep phase angles. The Nenuphar is the antithesis of this type of speaker. Your LM 845 wouldn’t be a good choice with these current hungry speakers. I much prefer your LM /Nenuphar approach.
Charles

Hi sale84,
Your situation is totally expected and predictable.
The designer/builder has clearly stated the Cube Audio Nenuphar is specifically meant to be used with amplifiers possessing
1 little or no NFB
2 Relatively high output impedance
3 low damping factor (DF)

The special single driver has a very powerful magnet/motor assembly and is very well damped and controlled. An amplifier that utilizes high levels of NFB which results in very low output impedance and high damping factor is exactly what you need to avoid.

It is no surprise the superb Nenuphar speaker sounds magnificent with a high quality SET amplifier (Most often zero NFB) such as your Line Magnetic 845 or David_ten’s teriffic 2A3 SET mono blocks. High NFB amplifiers (which yields very low output impedance) are detrimental. IMO the Nenuphar is worth every penny based on feedback I’ve received. BTW solid state amplification are  fine as long as they adhere to the designer’s recommendation/ guidelines.
Charles

@saleh84  I second  @toetapaudio 's congratulations on acquiring your Cube Audio Nenuphars!!!

Thanks for sharing how incredibly well the speakers are working for you, paired to your Line Magnetic 845 SET amp.

@saleh84, congratulations on your purchase.

Bakoon 13R is a great match.

Is it just me or is 15,000 clams for a single driver speaker pair seem somewhat pricey? I know...it's me...damn...

Joined the cube audio club recently with a nenuphar. Mind blown!
One thing of significant importance:
The nenuphar needs the RIGHT amp to show its true colours and abilities.
I was replacing both amp and speaker (had a diablo 300 with kef ref 5s).
The gryphon was still not sold when nenuphars arrived. I listened with it for a week or so, being very careful with volume. The sound was OK. I thought, its break in, speaker will open up slowly. Then tried an old krell integrated. Seems cause it had a lower damping factor, sound started flowing with more ease.
Then, my LM845 premium SET amp arrived!
Words can't even describe the amount of change is speaker character. Opened up, singing with ultimate ease. Dymamics exploded, literally. Better everything. Bass changed a lot, it is so deep, fast and extended. Vs the diablo, the sound was out of control and felt congested somehow.
Word of advice, if you are going for a cube, you must choose your amp carefully to get the maximum of it. Its a speaker to die for with the right amplification!

Cube Audio Nenuphar Review by Dawid Grzyb / HiFi Knights:

http://hifiknights.com/reviews/speakers/cube-audio-nenuphar/

Cube Mini Nenuphar’s now on demo. These have the 8 inch driver rather than the 10 inch driver and come in a smaller cabinet. I’m very impressed.

@sakso136  Which server are you moving to?

Regarding the new driver break in, I'd check with Cube to see if they ran those drivers prior to shipping to you...as that might be a factor.

They should sound good enough as you have a week and a half on them. You could try higher volumes and a break in specific disc / tracks?

Here is a response I sent to @toetapaudio on my personal experience with break in:

"....Cube, if memory serves me, felt a few hours of runtime would be sufficient.

Jon Ver Halen, the US importer, put it at 40 hours or so.

Based on my experience, I peg it at about 150 hours before the Nenuphar start coming into their own. They definitely started sounding better after Jon's recommendation of 40+ hours. So take 40 as a minimum, minimum...with 150 as my personally recommended minimum.

For 'full' break-in around 500 hours for musical beauty, wonder and engagement.

An industry person I respect and who has significant experience tuning analog gear, felt 1000 hours would be needed. I realize 'hours' of burn-in are a hot topic with folks falling on either side of the divide. I took his feedback and pushed for that 1K mark, after which I consider break in to be complete. However, If I were advising, I'd stick to the 500 hours with folks generally being happy with the results post 200 hours."

Hi Sasko 

The drivers definitely get better with more playtime and settling as David I’m sure will confirm.

We are getting great synergy with the Bakoon 13R amp, highly recommended. I also recommend the speakers being placed on a well designed isolation device, like Townshend Podiums, see my previous post.

I have just added the Puritan PSM156 mains purifier into our system, resulting in a nice uptick in overall system performance. So three Blue Moon Award components working well together. Srajan knows his stuff. 😁

Hi guys; i own nenuphar since 5 months and they are superb.
system comsists of kassandra ref2 dac+ Server ( coming soon)+ n10 aurender ( a friend loan)+mbl c51 integ.
i have few questions: do these drivers needs much time for burn in?
I changed 2 drivers due to a small issue on one of the drivers( gregorz sent them to me free );and i am burning them with min volume since a week and a half now and they don t seem to open up yet !
One more question; the mbl is here only temporarily,and my final integ will be the aries cerat genus set integrated, but since i can t afford it now, and since i have a top pass lab preamp clone here , i was thinking to start with either x25 or sit 3, may be audio mirror set monos also.
what are your thoughts?
thks

I've revised and updated my initial first draft on the Synergistic Research Galileo PowerCell SX power conditioner and SRX power cable, hopefully making it an easier and cleaner read. I'll revisit and continue editing later today.

https://galileopowercellsx.blogspot.com/

The addition of the SR power conditioner and the power cable has enhanced and increased the perceived size of the Nenuphar's. They now present like much larger speakers. I've explained this point within the review.

The preceding post was deleted for duplication reasons.

Now I have the Cube/Bakoon/Puritan system up and running, sublime combination at a moderate cost.

Cube Nenuphar Mini on its way. I’ll keep you folks posted.

@mrubey Here is the link to my system and room details.

https://audio-system-details.blogspot.com/

The only change is the addition of the SR Galileo PowerCell SX which is currently under evaluation.

I’ll give Nima Ben David’s "Resonance" a listen. Thanks.

David_ten.....
Thank you sir and I’m happy for you! As we know it’s not just finding the right piece but getting it to work in synergistic harmony with the other pieces and room.
I was lucky enough to be able to put this system together but maybe more lucky in that my listening room works without a lot of intervention. It’s 15’ x 13’ with a 9’ symmetric but odd shaped ceiling. The front of the Nenuphar are 60" from the front wall, 7’ center to center. Listening position, ears 7’ from each cone. Toed in a bit, but aimed behind me, off each shoulder. I experimented extensively. Srajan’s advice regarding these speakers toe in proved true. It’s a largish near field setup but works very well.
I was just listening to my new MA records LP of Nima Ben David’s "Resonance". I think it must be the among the most beautiful recordings I’ve ever heard. She plays the viola de gamba. A Renaissance pre cello instrument with 6 or 7 strings that has serious bass range.

@mrubey  I completely get and relate to what you are experiencing. :)

I’ve stumbled onto the grail.

Congratulations!!!

I purchased the pair of white Nenuphar demoed at AXPONA.......having never seen or heard them. I trusted my gut and the return policy. I drove them with a 2A3 and with 2v input (CD) it was sublime. But I quickly discovered that my anemic phono stage signal was not cutting it with the 92db Nenuphar. I purchased a line/phono stage and ran square into HUM HELL. But only on phono, the CD player was better than ever. Several weeks later having tried every remedy known to man, including sending the new unit back for diagnostics......I gave up. The generous dealer took the linestage back for refund and I decided to change paradigms. I ordered a SIT 3 from Reno HiFi where they are still listed as available btw. I purchased Ed Schilling’s *The Truth* no gain buffered linestage. I found a used Manley Chinook in perfect condition. The SIT 3 is currently burning in. Schilling says The Truth doesnt need to. Simply enough I have reached the mountain top. The sound defies superlatives. With the right recording of course the 2A3 brought the musicians into my room. Beautiful and delicate yet dense imaging at the same time. Sometimes the Nenuphar created a forty foot wide stage in a 13’ wide room. Then the SIT 3. They are here bursts out into you are there with uncanny realism. I wish everyone equal joy with your systems. I’ve stumbled onto the grail. Nelson Pass, Ed Schilling....and the guys at Cube.......are wizards.

As David is aware, I have been evaluating the Cube Nenuphar’s mounted on Townshend’s Isolation Podiums over the last week. Could a really great speaker get even better? Here are my findings:

System set-up:
Cube Nenuphar’s, Mola Mola dac and amps, Fidata server, Sablon cabling, SteinMusic Harmonizers, Bybee Signal Enhancers fitted to dedicated mains consumer unit with separate spurs to each component, Ingress Engineering footers/slate platforms/air spring isolation on dedicated solid maple furniture fitted with Ingress cup and ball footers.
Music:
Local files stored on the Fidata server.
Carmen Gomes Sings the Blues DSF live recording
Arne Domnerus Jazz at the Pawn Shop DSF live recording
Leonard Cohen You Want it Darker FLAC
Rebecca Pigeon The Raven FLAC
The Los Angeles Percussion Quartet The Year Before Yesterday FLAC
Arvo Part Tabula Rasa Lithuanian Chamber Orchestra Keith Jarrett WAV

As we both know effective isolation brings big improvements in SQ. I knew from my experience with Boenicke speakers that have a Swing Base Isolation set up as an option, that isolating the speakers really helps. So many speaker manufacturers overlook this.

When I received the Cube Nenuphar’s I was really happy with the sound of them but felt that it would be good to try isolating them to hear if they could sound even better. Max Townshend’s Podiums seemed to be the obvious solution and I had seen them working very effectively at a show. I have known Max for a long while and we had a great chat about the benefits of isolation in general. The Cubes gave me the opportunity of trying out Max’s Podiums.

The Nenuphar’s as you know are a very open and natural sounding speaker already but mounted on the Podiums these attributes just increased. The live recordings just sounded more real and the space between the players was more clearly defined.

On the Los Angeles Percussion Quartet, the various bell sounds just sounded clearer, open and more natural. Bass drums on this recording sounded more real with me increased depth and timbre.

On Arvo Part, you could sense the body of the piano more.

Leonard Cohen’s voice sounded smoother, more open, less overblown but with increased texture.

Both live recordings really opened up further and sounded more live.

In summary: a worthwhile upgrade that brings the following improvements from my listening notes

Increased space around instruments

Music more absorbing and delicate

Increased transparency

Clearer top end

Improved transients

Greater harmonic structure to the music

Better cohesion

Increase in detail

Bass tighter more natural

Depth and openness increased

Notes last longer

Here are some of these recent changes. Most are to the very front end of the streaming chain.

Two Keces P8 ultra low noise linear power supplies to power the server (one unit) and the Netgear Orbi Pro satellite plus my Wyred 4 Sound Remedy reclocker (for TV/movie sound).

I replaced my Cox Router (cable modem/router/wifi/telephony) unit with an Arris Surfboard SB8200 cable modem (only).

I replaced my Google WiFi Mesh Network with the Netgear Orbi Pro Access Point and Satellite.

There were a number of network and network management reasons for choosing the Orbi Pro but standout ’audio-related’ features include it’s easily accessible ports (and with wider separation), stability, mounting flexibility, and standard 2.1mm by 5.5mm power input (this makes sourcing custom DC cables much easier).

The addition of an ADD-Powr Sorcer x4 power conditioner. This unit is in addition to the passive Akiko Audio Corelli already in system as well as the SR PowerCell 12 SE supply/conditioner and the PI Audio UberBUSS supply.

More information, including a link my early review of the Sorcer x4, in a thread I started:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/add-powr-by-coherence-systems-power-conditioning-products

I am also trying a different component isolation approach...doubling up on Herbie’s and Ingress Engineering solutions (prior to trying new products).

Finally, the new DSP board for my Denafrips Terminator DAC is enroute.