Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

Cal,
That referral to 6 Moons is a good idea. Srajan Ebaen has been an admirer and user of Zu speakers for quite some time. He has reviewed a number of their models very favorably thorough the years.


He was very taken and struck by the Cube Audio Nenuphar and seems to place them in their own singular uppermost tier category for single driver speakers . He is astonished by their sound quality and presentation.  Although Zu utilizes full range drivers I realize that it isn’t a single driver speaker as is the Nenuphar.
Charles

@keithr Hopefully someone who's actually done the comparison will step in, but I suspect these two designs will sound very different. You can likely catch some of that if the read the two corresponding 6moons reviews and compare some if the descriptors used across across them...

E.g.:
See paragraph 3 here - http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/zu3/6.html
And whole page, but especially final paragraph here - https://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/cubeaudio2/5.html

@debjit_g After four years of work getting my Coincidents to finally sound like a reference, I'm not feeling a big rush to try new speakers, but I still like the idea of putting the neo driver in a 1cuft sealed cube for a diy project and change of pace. I'm very attracted to the idea of eliminating the crossover. If I do take the plunge, I will most certainly use the tempo Electric wire inside the cabinet. Would probably go with 14ga as that's what I currently use on my mid-range driver (20ga to my tweeter & 12ga in the bass cabs).

~~~~~

And @charles1dad I wonder if Israel's stated preference stems from the fact that he sells his own copper wiring. Replacing the stranded copper (with a Teflon jacket) in my PREs with solid core silver reduced distortion, and increased texture, color, and naturalness. As you stated, the silver sounds smooth with a subtle warmth. I don't hear any tradeoffs at all. The only downside is increased cost.  I'm confident anyone with these speakers who did an a/b would prefer it.

And I don't blame you for leaving well enough alone inside the Coincident electronics. I've been using VH Audio's silver (5N, solid core) inside my electronics, but also still have a lot of copper in the various circuit boards. Routing new signal wire throughout all the pTp wiring would certainly be a laborious project. And as you state, they already sound so good...

~~~~~

Also, for anyone considering the option, Tempo Electric's 14ga is only ~$60/meter (x4 if you're buying a stereo set) with a 30-day free trial. It's a bargain.

Anyone compare the Cubes to Zu? Seems Druid VI. Nenuphar would be super interesting.

Cal,
I’ve used various silver IC and speaker cable over the past 20 years. I’m currently using Ocellia silver cables the past 7 or 8 years. As with you I just haven’t heard the thin,bright or edgy sound supposedly attributable to silver. In fact the Ocellia is very refined, smooth, and organic yet quite open and nuanced. Exceptionally transparent/clear. Warmth rather than cool and sterile/clinical.

Interesting the improvement in your Coincident speakers as I know they use high quality 6N copper wire. Israel Blume (Coincident founder/owner) once told me he doesn’t care for silver. I respect his opinion but I’ve never had a problem with silver wiring.

IMO silver actually has a natural warmth (But not gratuitous).I’ve always been curious as to how my Coincident Frankenstein 300b and their Statement Line Stage would sound with silver internal wiring. But I’m very happy with both and left well enough alone.
Charles

Thanks @david_ten and @cal3713

@cal3713 what gauge and connector will you be using ? single or double run ? have you considered replacing the internal wire from the speaker terminal to the Neo 10 driver with the Tempo electric wire ?

Still haven’t built my pair, but I’d like to take another opportunity to suggest the tempo Electric solid core 99.99% silver in oversized Teflon jackets. That’s basically the purist, most conductive wire available in one of the lowest dialectic insulators. Other people may appropriately charge you for advanced geometry and terminations, but they’re not going to beat those basics no matter the price.

I replaced all the wire in my system with high purity solid core silver including all internal wire in my Coincident PRE speakers. Every step of the way things got more natural and refined. The tempo Electric wire runs all the way from my internal amplifier boards out to the speaker drivers. Not a touch of the brightness or thinness sometimes associated with silver.

@debjit_g  I am using cables made by Scott Sheaffer. They replaced my Synergistic Research cables (which were also quite good).

This thread has been silent for sometime...:-)
What are folks using for the speaker cable with their Nenuphars ?

Do you know the selling price?

The Brinkmann Integrated amp is a great match with single driver speakers 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeK04ZUOoss

On a side note, FirstWatt has a new model out.
"The F8 revisits their most popular J2 model but simplifies the front end for just three signal-path devices per channel. It applies current not voltage feedback and improves on the J2 specs on bandwidth and damping factor."

The output impedance is 0.2 ohms, which puts it between the SIT3 and the J2, but far below the SIT1 and SIT2 at 4 ohms.
www.firstwatt.com/prod.html

- Robert

<<For those who are using SIT-3, what preamp are you using?>>

My Backert preamp uses two 12au7 tubes. Tube rolling is highly recommended. This evening I replace the stock JJs with Mullards. Amazing.

"My father's house has many rooms..."

@rwpollock  
+1 

Preamps are sometimes under-appreciated, with more time being focused on amps and speakers. It may have been Robert Harley who wrote that the amplifier determines the character of a system while the preamplifier determines the quality.

- Robert

And since everyone should love their preamp...

"I found independent power supplies for each channel to be a very substantial upgrade when I did it for my first watt f4s. I think I've said this before too, but it's a really beautiful amp that doesn't get the attention it serves, btw."

I remember reading the 6moons review of the F-4 years ago and thinking they would be perfect if one had a preamp that they loved.

- Robert

"I bought my SIT-1 Mono's (Demo's) for about $500 more than what the SIT-3 goes for new."

That sounds like a great deal. Didn't they sell for $11K when new?

"Looks like the amps with 2a3 tubes are 2.5 watts/channel. Is that enough to hear at sane listening level, assuming you sit 8-9ft from the speaker?"

For my "sane" levels it would be, but it also depends upon the size of your room. 20-40 sq meters is 215 to 430 square feet (20' x 20').

From the Cube Audio website:
"The Nenuphars are dedicated for rooms of 20 - 40 square meters. They are a perfect match for a tube amp with at least 3 Watts per channel. Our personal preference is somewhere around 2A3, Px4, 45 tube-based amps. Nonetheless, most solid-state amps (especially those working in A-class) are also an amazing match for the Nenuphars."

@rwpollock Wow, had seen the name in print, but didn't known anything about those amps. They look like a ton of fun.

Speaking of Tektron tube amps, they are the 2a3 amps used by Cube Audio at shows. Robyatt Audio carries four of their smaller amps/preamps.
www.robyattaudio.com/TektronProducts.htm
I may purchase one this winter to check it out.

Looks like the amps with 2a3 tubes are 2.5 watts/channel. Is that enough to hear at sane listening level, assuming you sit 8-9ft from the speaker ? What about 300B tubes ? has anybody been able to listen to a 300B amp with the Nenuphars ?

Speaking of Tektron tube amps, they are the 2a3 amps used by Cube Audio at shows. Robyatt Audio carries four of their smaller amps/preamps.
www.robyattaudio.com/TektronProducts.htm
I may purchase one this winter to check it out.

- Robert

@rwpollock Definitely.  The idling board of the unused channel does (in my experience) still create a little extra distortion though, so if I settled on that solution, I'd eventually disconnect that board from the power supply. If a friend had a unit, your method would be the easiest way to see what the benefit would be.

If one had two SIT-3s could you turn them both on and run the right channel from your preamp to one and the left channel through the other amp? One amp would then drive the right speaker and one the left.

@cal3713 interesting thought. There is no question that a separate power supply on each channel can make a substantial difference depending on the original power supply design. I haven’t seen the inside of SIT-3 but if there is enough space inside, you could install the 2nd one in the same chassis and rewire into a dual mono configuration. You would then have to recalculate the fuse rating (if it has one) and drill another hole for the 2nd fuse. It’s another option for someone wanting a stereo amp and saving real estate :-)

Thanks @riaa and @rwpollock Looks like you guys are lucked out getting a pair of SIT-1. All the SITs are unobtonium these days. I will keep my eyes and ears wide open in the used market but if anybody is willing to offload any of the SITs, pm me please :-)
btw, I currently have a PS Audio BHK Pre - can anybody tell if it’s a good match with the SITs ?

@david_ten thanks for the confirmation. You happen to also use a Townsend podium - did it make a bigger difference then just using the Eden spikes on the bare floor ?

It would be interesting to try the sit3 in a dual mono configuration for a more fair comparison to the sit1. All you need is a second chassis, power supply, and then you just move one channel over. Anyone over on the pass labs forum of diyaudio could do it. As I've mentioned earlier in the thread, I found independent power supplies for each channel to be a very substantial upgrade when I did it for my first watt f4s. I think I've said this before too, but it's a really beautiful amp that doesn't get the attention it serves, btw.

@david_ten  hi, Thank you for the tip !  :-) 

I bought my SIT-1 Mono's (Demo's) for about $500 more than what the SIT-3 goes for new.

SIT-1 monos (when they can be found) are much more expensive than than the SIT-3s. Occasionally you will find a SIT-2 for sale, usually cheaper than a 3. The SIT-2 is stereo and provides that immediacy of a tube SET amp. The Bakoon 13R integrated ($5K used) sounds good with Nenuphars, although I prefer going FirstWatt.

For a preamp, the Pass Lab ones make for a great combo. On the tube side I have used LTA and Backert, with Backert being my preferred choice. Easy tube rolling if you enjoy that.

- Robert

@debjit_g You are correct. Eden Sound Extra Large Solid Brass Spikes in the front AND Regular Hemispikes in the rear.

The angle / tilt (front to back) is very close to the original. It resulted in a slight increase in height.

Overall, the improvement in sound quality and performance (on my hardwood suspended flooring) was significant and immediately heard and experienced versus the stock footers.

@philipwu Philip, check out Srajan Ebaen’s very recent review of Aurai Audio’s M1 Classic speaker. At the very end of the review (bottom of the last page / Page 11), Srajan compares the M1 to the Cube Audio Neuphar.

I do not know if the Reference 3A speakers are similar to the Aurai M1’s, or if the comparison is apt,...but his short summary relative to the Nenuphar might provide insight.

SIT-1 Mono’s are supposedly superior to the Sit-3 on these speakers. I have both so look forward to seeing for myself down the road. There are numerous YOUTUBE Videos featuring these speakers and Flea Watt Amps from Tsakiridis,Tektron and other Foreign tube amp manufacturers...dont think any of these marvelous sounding amps cost more than 2-3K. DECWARE might be a USA alternative although they dont have any 2A3 amps which sound awesome on these.

as I looking towards getting a pair myself, I would like feedback on the following:
1. any suggestions on a solid or tube integrated amp not costing a fortune ?

2. for those who are using SIT-3, what preamp are you using ?
@david_ten I see that you are using Edensound spikes. Did you get the extra large solid brass spike for the front and regular hemispikes for the back ? In that case, did it match the original rack angle ?

dear all, 
have anyone compared the sonic differences between Cube Audio Nenuphar vs any of Reference 3A speakers? just curious how do they sound since 3A do not use crossover in their main driver too, and with only a cap before the tweeter, i guess the soundstaging , imaging, speed, dynamics etc.. generally very similar ? Thanks for any comments. 
-phil

Wood veneers would be interesting. The black can be a bit hulking, kind of like a Carnac stone in your living room. :-)

- Robert

Related to the cabs...the finish anyway...they are going to start offering multiple Wood Veneer finishes you can choose instead of just the Black/White option. Im looking forward to seeing those designs.

Maybe the best way to get the very best sound out these speaker drivers is to just buy these speaker drivers and put them in Cabinets made of Granite. 
You get a cabinet maker to do these granite speaker cabinets for you
  
https://www.cubeaudio.eu/cube-audio-f10-neo

Robert, thanks for the link.

I suggest trying some other amps mentioned in this thread as being compatible with the Nenuphar’s. My own experience is with the Bakoon 13R which I can highly recommend.

Diablo 300 is a Darkish sounding amp....I guess as long as you like that kind of presentation. Have ordered a pair of the Mini Nenuphar's but they wont arrive till the Fall. Completely sold out of everything except 1 pair of the Magnus is available from the distributor according to my dealer

Over on AudioShark I came across an interesting post about Nenuphars and the Gryphon Diablo 300:

www.audioshark.org/amplifiers-8/gryphon-diablo-300-vs-vitus-audio-sia-025-mk-ii-16909.html?h...
Yesterday my friend brought all his system to my home. He wanted to know why i m so happy with my new speakers, Cube Audio Nenuphars.
Full range, single driver, no crossover 6 ohm and 92db.

His system consists of: 
Gryphon300+dave+mscaller+n10.
PC from True Signal, SC Sablon t.o.r, IC Atlas Mavros
PC for gryphon: Sablon t.o.r.

I drive my speaker with mbl c51, 300w class D.

Guess what? Gryphon is an amazing match to these moderately sensible speakers! My friend was speechless, anticipating a bad match! I guess Gryphon, when used at low volume, throws class A only power, and that's what these babies like the most.

The preamp is the Linear Tube Audio MZ3. I use the speaker taps to the Zu Undertone. The dac is a Border Patrol SEi (I leave the tube buffer off). An Antipodes EX running Roon and Qobuz is the source. 

be, what preamp(s) are you using with the SIT-3?

- Robert

Congratulations @bebruatigan and thanks for interesting information.

If you can try and borrow a Bakoon 13R.

Just received a lightly used (less than 20 hours) Cube Nenuphars 2 weeks ago. I purchased them on Agon from Salon1Audio (excellent experience). I wanted a speaker that could take full advantage of my beloved First Watt Sit-3 amp that was driving some modest bookshelves to amazing heights in my second system. My second system had taken over my main system for most listening sessions. The main system (Magnepan 3.7i speakers, Pass X250.8, LTA MZ3 pre, Antipodes EX source with Roon and Qobuz) was not shabby either. I bought the Cubes on faith. I had not heard them before buying. That is a first for me. The reviews and the forums were overwhelmingly positive and the match up with the Sit 3 seemed to work well.

Out of the box the experience was disappointing. The speakers seemed to need more power than the Sit 3 was giving them. I have a second Sit 3 and considered bi-amping. I assumed more break in was required and sat tight while it ran. After 50 hours the sound was still dry. A fellow audiopal came by with a few of his best toys and we listened for about 4 hours. He convinced me to give the X250.8 a try. Boom- the Cubes opened up. We cautiously drove them knowing the 40 watt speed limit. The sound relieved me that the speakers were getting there but the more powerful Pass was not a long term solution.

We then brought in his Zu Undertone sub. Without so much as dialing in the phase the improvement and the match with the Cubes was amazing. We rolled through a number of tracks and finally just started to listen instead of analyze. Closer yet. Closing on midnight and with work looming we called it a night. Sean Casey's sub is an absolute dream match up for the high efficiency Cubes. I'm getting a shiny gloss black Undertone to match the Cubes and would recommend it for those who are considering the hybrid Cubes now offered. You only need one Undertone. No need for 2 subs here. It is fast and blends in with the Cubes as if they were designed for one another. My neighbor is now on the search for a used Undertone to go with his Druid 5s after taking the system in yesterday. His words-this is the best system I have ever heard and better than anything we listened to at RMAF (2019).

Now after over 100 hours the Sit 3 is back in and the Cubes are receptive. This is what I was waiting for. 6 moons describes the sound very well, in my opinion. I suggest that read. Despite turning it up for a long listening session yesterday my friend and I felt absolutely no fatigue. The coherence and imaging are as advertised. The hype is very well deserved. The Sit 3 can now show off its brilliance to the fullest extent (thank you Nelson Pass!). My guess is that the break in isn't over yet, either. If I don't get more out of the break in it won't matter much at this point. I haven't heard anything come close to this for less than $100k.

The Aries Cerat website has a News section:
http://aries-cerat.eu/news

Be sure to scroll down, look at the show pictures and check out the speaker drivers....

EnjoyTheMusic has a short news item on Aries Cerat and their new Ianus series of electronics:
www.enjoythemusic.com/news/0720/

Aries Cerat Ianus Series amplifiers is a showcase of the company's unique TriodeFet technology. After years of developing and refining their technologies, they are proud to introduce the TriodeFet technology, and a Series of amplifiers that implements this truly innovative technology. This technology is neither a hybrid topology (in the usual sense of a tube-driving solid-state stage type), nor a solid-state driving tube kind of stage. TriodeFet is a new way of using hollow and solid-state devices. The concept is to have a low voltage / high current active device, which had the linearity of a triode, and at same time would be able to source enough current to drive low impedance loads directly.

The TriodeFet, can be seen as a three terminal active element, just like a MOSFET or a triode. The company's breakthrough is that its transfer curves are identical of a true high quality triode, with the only differentiator from a true triode is that, the Y-axis (current) is in scaled in Amperes and not mA. What this means, is that you can design circuits that were never before possible either by using tubes or transistors. This new active element can be used to develop simple, very linear circuits, which are stable down to very low impedances, while the TriodeFet's inherent linearity is making the use of the problematic negative feedback redundant. New models within the Ianus Series include the Geminae (€110,000) Class A amplifier that produces 130 Watts @ 8 Ohm. Aries Cerat's Essentia (€39,000) is the little brother that produces 40 Watts @ 8 Ohms.

Having an outstanding tube line pre driving a 10k load is possible. I fact I had Don Sachs configure one output to drive a 10K load and one to drive the normal 100k load. Sounds fantastic!  Just takes a big ass high quality cap.