I am very happy with my purchase and am looking forward to many hours of listening pleasure. I can’t say anything bad about these speakers, they have checked all the boxes for me. Like I said above, these speakers are going to be a lot of fun !!!
This says it all!
You are very happy with the Nenuphars and have increased your enjoyment of listening to music. Wonderful, this is entirely the point of these endeavors. I’m glad that you gave tube amplifiers an opportunity to pair with your Nenuphars.
Just want to follow up on the speaker progress now that I have about 150 hrs of play on them. I feel that the speakers have settled in and are about 99% broken in. The sound is amazing across the spectrum. The soundstage is wide and deep. The detail that is heard is stunning. Strong deep bass, very impressive. If you want to hear how good the bass is with the Nenuphars play this track, the sound pressure it creates in the room is an attention getter. After listening to this track, I kind of wondered why someone would feel the need for a subwoofer with these speakers.
My speaker placement is about 1 ft from the wall with about 5 degrees of toe-in. The speakers are on 1 inch rock maple platforms to make it easier to move the speakers around. I am not using the spikes that come with the speakers, they are 1.5 inches tall and I feel that from my listening position, which is about 12 ft away, the speaker is angled kind of over my head. I replaced the spikes with Eden Sound HemiSpikes, they are 1 inch tall. Using them dropped the front of the speaker down where it is pointing more towards my ears and that small drop did not effect the bass in any way that I can detect.
Charles I took your advise and tried a tube amp with the Nenuphars. I have a Will Vincent custom built Dynaco ST with Gold Lyon KT-66 tubes. WOW the tube amp is an excellent match with these speakers. The soundstage is a little wider and deeper when compared to the SIT-3. The air around the instruments is a little more defined and the overall richness of the music is just great. This is how I like music to sound in my room. I am not complaining about the performance of the First Watt SIT-3, it is and amazing sounding amp and Nelson Pass did a great job designing a SS amp to sound like a tube amp, mission accomplished. But there is nothing like the genuine article, a real tube amp. I would recommend going with a tube amp if someone was going to purchase the Nenuphar speakers. It just seems that they were designed for a tube amp. There are many reviews and youtube videos out there using all different amps with great success, the tube amp is just my opinion.
I am very happy with my purchase and am looking forward to many hours of listening pleasure. I can't say anything bad about these speakers, they have checked all the boxes for me. Like I said above, these speakers are going to be a lot of fun !!!
Stereophile has a review by Ken Micallef of the 25W Pathos InPol Remix MkII integrated amplifier. The specs caught my eye as the output impedance is listed as 0.9 ohms. As the Nenuphars have an impedance of 8 ohms, this would make the damping factor
8/0.9 = 9
which is pretty low and down in the tube amp range. The SIT-3 has a damping factor of 30.
If anybody gets a chance to audition the Pathos please keep us posted.
Post your thoughts on the Nenuphar mini’s once you get a listen. I’m intrigued by the semi OB design of the qualio iq’s. I love my Nenuphar mini’s but I’d love to listen to the qualios one day.
Found this thread because I'm very seriously considering the qualio iq. It seems to have everything I'm interested in from a technology (and expected behavior based on that tech). I've been interested in cube as well but haven't auditioned yet. I'm going to go listen to some nenuphar mini that aren't too far away as I expect that will give me an idea of what the IQ will do in the mid range. I am 100% confident the soundstage and imaging will make me happy based on the video they posted on YouTube (played through dartzeel and reference 3a speakers, the only thing I can really determine is soundstage imaging and dynamics but what I hear confirms what one should hear with this design). What I'm concerned about is mid range and vocals, coming from harbeth I'm picky about that and trained to really appreciate warmth and life like timbre. If the cubes make me happy in that regard I'm going to order. The price is fantastic even including shipping taxes and duties.
The rest of the system is Pass Labs XP-30 preamp XP-25 phono amp TTW Momentus copper platter turntable with Graham Phantom II Supreme tonearm and Ortofon Anna cartridge PS Audio DSD transport and DAC Bryston BDP-2 and Technics RS1500 reel to reel. Cables are High Fidelity Cables. Puritan Labs 156 power conditioner and Ground System.
Last night I played some tapes and they sounded just amazing with this amp and speaker combination. The highlight of the night was when I played a copy of the Beatles Abbey Road reel to reel. I purchased this copy from a recording engineer who had passed away some years ago. He worked all over the record industry so I have no idea what the source for this tape was. All I can say is that I have been listening to this album for over 50 yrs, I have owned almost every pressing of this album and last night I experienced something like never before. The deep solid bass, the separation of the instruments, the width and depth of the soundstage, the air around the recording just spectacular. I felt that I could get up from my listening chair, walk up and stand in front of each band member, it was like they were in the room with me. Whenever friends and family want me to show off my system, I am going right for the Abbey Road tape.
All of this is happening with only 30 hrs of play. I can't wait to hear how they evolve after 100 or 200 hrs on them. And I have not even started to adjust toe-in or change spikes and footers or distance from the wall. I can say that everything I have read and videos that I have watched on youtube are true. I have a feeling this is going to be a fun journey with these speakers !!!
Needless to say, you’re off to an excellent start.😊
At only 30 hours you have considerably more speaker (And frankly amplifier) burn-in to go. That you are so happy with what you’re hearing already is very encouraging. Congratulations on your wise and successful Nenuphar acquisition.
It would be very interesting if once the Nenuphars are fully settled in you could try a low power tube amplifier. Just to contrast with your S.I.T.-3 amplifier. Just a thought.
I recently purchased the Nenuphar V2 speakers. WOW what an amazing speaker. I only have about 30 hrs of play on them but I am very impressed with the sound I am hearing. When I first hooked them up, they sounded dry and flat, not very musical. Soundstage was not that great, kinda small. I am thinking to myself, what have I done, this purchase was a big mistake! Now I know better....all speakers need some break-in time before you start any critical listening so lets not get crazy yet. To top it off the amp I am using is a First Watt SIT-3 that I purchase and the original owner told me it had maybe 50 hrs of play on it, so it is like brand new also. So I put a break-in CD in and let the system play all day while I was out.
I played a couple of albums after 10 hrs of break-in and what a difference. These things started to come to life. The richness and detail of the music was beginning to blossom. The soundstage was wider and deeper. After every listening session the speakers and amp continue to improve. Now after 30 hrs the speakers are really stating to come into their own. I have never experienced this level of realism in recorded music. The bass is shocking. I never expected this level of sound from a 10 in driver. I have a copy of Dark Side of the Moon (UHQR) that I just played and I feel like I am hearing this album for the first time. The detail and separation of the instruments is mind blowing. When all of the clocks start to chime, the room is enveloped in the sound, the soundstage is wider and deeper than the room. It is one of those things you have to hear because words can not accurately describe it.
All of this is happening with only 30 hrs of play. I can't wait to hear how they evolve after 100 or 200 hrs on them. And I have not even started to adjust toe-in or change spikes and footers or distance from the wall. I can say that everything I have read and videos that I have watched on youtube are true. I have a feeling this is going to be a fun journey with these speakers !!!
For those interested in Cube's Cube related efforts there is mention of a new widebander combined with an 18 inch woofer. Photos of two renders are on page 4 of Srajan's Qualio intro, linked below.
They look very similar to the Wolf Von Langa line of speakers. So similar that WVL should take notice. The WVL line uses field coil midrange and woofers however. WVL makes fantastic sounding speakers. While they look similar it seems both companies use some different approaches in design and drivers beyond the shared Mundorf tweeter.
Announcement from Cube Audio of the ’Grand Fission 2022’ awarded by Audiophile-Magazine AND a video with recorded music.
BTW: excellent sound quality based on a listen via my basic IEM / portable DAC/ Headamp. I'm really looking forward to listening via my primary headphone system.
I be been on this thead on and off.I m an old owner of nenuphars( 3 yrs back)
Long story but i moved to another house, another system, another project.
i had a second pair of cube nenuphars drivers v1 wich i upraded from single driver builder in singapore ( he has his own brand), this was before cube audio make the v2.
the pair i have is v1 upgraded with different japanese paper craft .
i spend for this upgrade 1500€( incl shipping).
the specs are still the same as the v1.
i tried them on my friend nenuphars cabinets, and to my ears they sounded better than his v2 .
i was planning to make different design with these drivers, like back horn loaded, or open baffle design , but long time passed, and i m not a diy myself.
i m no longer interested to go ahead with this project and i m willing to sell these drivers to someone handy , willing to explore them, or even try on his nenuphars.
they looks gorgeous.
if interested let me know, i will share pics, videos playing against v2 and price.
Just listened to / viewed Janos' recent 'Real World Audio' YouTube post.
As always, he offers an interesting and meaningful perspective. This one is about reactions / feedback from three of his female friends as they listened to digital and vinyl, in two different rooms/systems via his Voigt Pipes with Cube Audio drivers.
@stephendunnthose Boressen speakers seem like some sort of voodoo magic. Seems like anyone who hears them is amazed. They are probably at the top of my list of speakers I'd love to live with for awhile at some point. Enjoy!
It has been a pleasure and an education participating in this thread. Learned a bunch that helped me appreciate not only my Nenuphars but this hobby.
I’ve moved on from the Nenuphars to the Boressen Z2 Cryo edition speakers. A leap forward in everything I love about the Nens (and more), but at a cost of $10K plus. I’ll be posting a review of the Z2’s as a separate thread in the next month or so.
A pampered pair of white Nenuphar V1s will be going up on ’Gon shortly.
It is a pleasure to join the company of like-minded audiophiles. A little background on me: I have experimented with Voigt pipes in various forms and interpretations, drivers, rooms, and how they fare with associated electronics for over 20 years. I had the pleasure to spend my audio journey with like-minded friends, in a very strong local DIY community, and an amazing mentor (Stu Ono) who was regarded as a fountain of knowledge by a good number of the US leaders of high end audio industry.
I can say the Cube Audio has truly raised the bar! I have the version 2 of the Fc8, and currently breaking them in my Voigt pipe cabinet (which has been my most successful Voigt pipe).
@david_ten The following paragraph precedes that amplifier list and this what was stated one time as referenced in the Mono & Stereo review of the Nenuphar:
Magus are dedicated for rooms of 12 - 25 square meters. They are a perfect match for a tube amp with at least 3 Watts per channel. Our personal preference is somewhere around 2A3, Px4, 45 tube-based amps. Nonetheless, most solid-state amps (especially those working in A-class) are also an amazing match for the Bliss C. When it comes to placement, they can be placed both forward and placed right against the back wall. They like about 5-10 degrees of toe-in.
“Our preference” is the distinction I picked up on and 300b amps were not included.
@realworldaudio That was an excellent summary and I find your speaker cable mod (single run for the positive and five runs of speak cable for the negative) very interesting.
A double welcome: one for joining the Cube Audio family via your new Fc8 drivers and another for your posting here.
Thank you for sharing your detailed, initial impressions. If the Fc8 follows the F10 Neo drivers, expect a long (mostly enjoyable) break-in period and a positive (significant) improvement delta.
For those that are unfamiliar with Janos, he is based out of Hawaii and has a YouTube Channel dedicated to audio. His YouTube Name is Real World Audio. Here’s a link to his ’videos’ page:
Thank you for bringing this thread to my attention, and for linking my video in!
I am using the Fc8 V2 in my traditional Voigt pipe cabinet (close to Paul Voigt's original, with cabinet volume adjusted to Fostex Fe204 Vas), and have about 7 hours of break in so far.
My observations are right on with @mikeg's observations (post above, his 75hr break in report):
*Superb center fill
*Complete lack of directionality, sweet spot opened up (after 15min break in): image stays 3D in the entire room, I can sit / stand, move to the side, move between speakers - 3D integrity stays. Ear does not get cues about the actual place where the speakers / drivers are.
*Superb low end extension. First hour of break in bass was loose (yet extended), and it started tightening up, cleaning up. Level is lower as of now than mids & highs, but getting louder (catching up to mids) noticeably as break in progresses.
*They do not seem to mind silver. Using copper IC and speaker wire, but amp is fully silver wired internally and speaker cable has silver terminals.
*They do not need a sub. They reach very deep (my Voigt pipe cabinet has the ability to convey to 30Hz in my room). Church organ rendered beautifully. The low bass is better integrated and cleaner than a sub could render it, even when the sub goes lower than 30Hz. I agree, sub takes away from FR bass quality and integrity.
*They are getting louder as they break in. I think the spider has to break in mechanically, so it can allow the cone to move freely. As the spider is quite strong (not the usual soft material), this break in is expected, and should be pronounced. In the first hour louder passages were compressed and got a little confused, but this is disappearing with break in, and they can play louder and louder. Mind it, I'm still under 10hrs of break in...
*Softer / mid volume parts are all beautiful, exquisite 3D rendering. Precise, holographic, yet NOT FORCED nor FAKE. With most hi-rez multi-way speakers I get the impression that something's not right with their hi-rez rendering. Here, I'm not getting that feeling, the presented space is natural and comfortable.
*The sound is very much energized, with excellent, very precise HF reproduction. Yet, it's not fatiguing! HF and air without distortion, which is a feat I heard only from the best compression drivers.
*Whizzer cone: whizzer cone artifacts typical to FR drivers are missing. No "Lowther shout" whatsoever.
*I was worried about the magnet material being Neo / ferrite and not Alnico. My worries are gone, the motor was implemented superbly. The tone is the opposite of Alnico drivers, but that's something I welcome. (I have a bunch of Alnicos, varietas delectat, I was actually looking for the complementary flavor!)
@mikeg Mike, in addition to simple preference, perhaps the industry association for shows, etc. may have been a factor. Tektron Audio and Cube Audio in Europe. Refined Audio being a Pass Labs dealer factors for the US shows.
If Grzegorz has reasons for not recommending a 300B or for putting it lower on Cube’s recommended list...I’d love to know the reasons.
Here is a screenshot of the recommended amplifiers (I believe this was the list when the V1 was in existence) from Cube Audio.
A number of 300B amps are in the "Amplifiers that work well with Cube Audio speakers" list.
[Note: I was not able to re-format the font size, etc. below] In other words, I'm not shouting!!! 😊
Amplifiers that are working very well with all Cube Audio speakers
Up to 4’000 Euro
First Watt SIT-3
Feliks 300b Arioso
Fezz Audio Lybra 300B
Fezz Audio Mira Ceti 300B
Music book 250 Power
Naim Audio XS2
Naim Audio Uniti Atom
Sun Audio 2A3
Quad Artera Pre + Power
Tsakiridis AEOLOS PLUS EL34
Tsakiridis Hermes EL84
Tsakiridis ORPHEUS 211
4’000 - 10’000 Euro
Aesthetix Mimas
Bakoon amp13r
FANTINI 2 GM-70
First Watt SIT-1
Manley Stingray II
Quad II Classic
Sun Audio 300B
Tektron TK211SI REF
Tektron TK2A3/300BPSE-I-REF
Tektron TK300BS-I-ECY
Verdier 300B
Viva Solistino integrated
Over 10’000 Euro
Absolare Intergrated SE
Aesthetix Calypso Eclipse + Quad II80 Monos
Aesthetix Janus Eclipse Pre + Line Magnetic 503 Monos
Aries Cerat GENUS integrated
Aries Cerat Incito-S + Concero 25Aries Cerat GENUS integrated
Seems like considerable conjecture in all honesty. I can’t think of any logical reason why a 300b amplifier would not be a fine choice. Certainly no technical reason. I’d love a comment directly from Cube Audio on this topic. I would be very surprised if they said there is some reason to avoid the 300b. Again, to me it appears to be a terrific pairing.
Here's some food for thought: I think this a question for Cube Audio with respect to the V1 and they will see it as a mute point. Why did Cube Audio have a list of compatible amplifiers when they offered the V1s? You don't see a recommended list for the V2s. Why did the Mono & Stereo Review state: "For tube amplifiers, Cube Audio recommends such designs based on 2A3, Px4, 45 tubes" and not 2A3, Px4, 45, and 300B tubes. Have you ever seen Cube or Refined Audio specifically demo with 300B based amps? I remember addressing this exact question at some point in my search.
In all candor I don’t believe there is a backing up statement. Certainly due to personal taste preference one might prefer a 45 /2A3, nothing unusual there. By the same token other listeners may prefer the 300b. Normal variance depending on numerous audio system factors.
@mikeg Mike, my memory might be failing on this but I don't remember Cube "not liking V1s paired with 300B amps." What I do remember is a preference by Cube Audio for 45 and 2A3 amps. If you have more information on this from Cube, please share.
Based on my experience with the V1, the ~8 watts of output, typical of 300Bs, is (per my estimation) the bullseye for 'ideal' SET power to drive the V1s.
I'd expect a high quality design / execution of a 300B amp to be linear and neutral and be an effective pairing for the V1s. Chosen 'voicing' of the specific design, per the owner's preference, is an obvious factor.
If you remember, Cube Audio didn't like the pairing of the V1s with 300B based amps
If you remember, Cube Audio didn’t like the pairing of the V1s with 300B based amps
I was under the impression that Cube Audio specifically had lower power, high output impedance amplifiers in mind to pair with the Nenuphar characteristics. 300b/2A3/PX 25 etc were the intended targets. Thus the very damped driver via very powerful magnets/motor. Exactly why an amplifier with high damping factor is not seen as advantageous. A good quality 300b SET would seem an excellent Nenuphar partner.
@david_tenWhat I mean related to the Ayon SETs is that the V2s would pair better than the V1s. If you remember, Cube Audio didn't like the pairing of the V1s with 300B based amps which I think is closer to the SET tube used by Ayon Audio. The V2s pair extremely well with the FW SIT-1. As it has been stated by others, the V2s will pair with more amps and that is another reason Cube Audio went in that direction.
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