Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure
----------------------------------------
Parameters (from Cube Audio):
Power: 40 W
Efficiency: 92 dB
Frequency response: 30Hz - 18kHz ( 6db)*
Dimensions: 30 x 50 x 105 cm
Weight: 40 Kg
"There are trade-offs with either approach. Matching YOUR needs and preferences should take priority". Agree 100% David. With this speaker I'd prefer tubes (I just like what tubes do). However no question that there has been much success reported by those who have chosen solid state amplifiers. Superb outcomes are possible with either. Charles |
For those who like to build things (or have someone build something for you)......buying the Cube drivers and mounting them on an open baffle will give you considerably better sound (not as deep of bass)....if done correctly. An open baffle will allow a more "open" sound. An example" four foot high baffle 2 foot wide baffle 2 wings, one foot by 4 feet going straight back You mount the driver about one foot or so from the top of the panel. This will probably give you flat to 40 hz in room. All baffles made from at least 3 layers of three quarter inch different woods to kill resonances....for instance, a combo of bamboo, baltic birch and highly refined MDF...... The serious magic comes from how you hook it up. The stock Nenuphar has a binding post on the outside....then a wire going to a banana plug that plugs into the banana jack on the speaker driver. All of these things veil the sound. What you do is SOLDER some really good speaker wire directly to the voice coil wire where it attaches to the banana jack.....the other end the the speaker wire attaches to your amp. This will blow your mind. Of course, you could do this same tweak with a Nenuphar but how many people are going to remove the driver and hardwire a cable and remove the binding posts and run the wire through the vacated binding post holes? Any takers?...he he. I am saying, you have never heard what this driver is capable of by having all that stuff in the signal path that you do not need and veils the sound. There are only about 5 percent of audiophiles that are DIYers.....and most DIYers are cheapskats......he he. So, I don’t expect much from this post other than letting you know what the possibilities are. Maybe, some day, someone will find out how much magic is in this driver......Will it be you? The cost of the drivers and wood and wire would be $10K......much less than the Nenuphar. And you could always mount the driver in a small box and use it down the road in your bedroom or van....he he. Of course, you could add powered or passive woofers to the open baffle Cubes and get all the slam you ever wanted. If you did this you could cut off some of the bass from the Cube driver by putting a tiny cap in front of the main amp or by changing the coupling cap in a tube amp to a lower value that would limit the lows going to the driver. You would get cleaner sound and have more mid bass impact by running your woofs up to at least 100hz. Enjoy this moment!.....it is magic. I has always been magic....Blessings to all. |
Where are you getting this price on the Nenuphar's? MSRP?? I got mine in the "8's with a Custom Paint Job to boot. Have you actually heard this "magic speaker" you have concocted above?? Didnt think so....All Theory with no actual experience. Not to mention it would be as ugly as hell even if it did work. |
The standard Cube Nenuphar retails for $15.9K......as far as I can see. The drivers list for 6690 Euros ($8176 USD) the pair plus shipping and duty. The mini retails for $12.0K. I have done all these mods to various speakers for at least 30 years. The mods would do exactly the same with this speaker. What you think is ugly, is someone else's beauty. Want to see some cool looking open baffle speakers?...check these out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfgEbVxt4AA&t=328s You could mount the drivers on a one foot wide baffle and install woofers underneath to fill in under 250hz.....then the speaker is just one foot wide and no wings. You could finish it any way you like. Infinite possibilities if your mind and heart are open. Are we having fun? If not, try something else. Serving others brings joy to everyone. Who are you serving by your thoughts, words, feelings and deeds? |
I have no reason to question that the superb Nenuphar drive utilized in an open baffle speaker with good implementation would sound very well. I'm not convinced at all that it would exceed the Nenuphar speaker in sound quality. As admirable as the driver and powerful motor assembly are the contribution of the cabinet construction and geometry can't be underestimated. A ton of work, methodical trial and error and design brainstorming went into the development and execution of the cabinet. All of these seperate aspects and their considerations combined to get the overall/finished product. This process deserves more acknowledgement and respect. Charles |
Personally, I don't see anything special in the cabinet they use. They don't even mention cabinet construction, material, damping or tweaking or their site. Basically, its just a TQWT (tapered quarter wave tube) box. Very good, I am sure. Its pretty well known how to make a TQWT enclosure for any driver. I bet they did try a few versions and damping inside before deciding on the final one. Always more work then you think. Here is a link to the cube suggestion for their driver. The Nenuphar cabinet, I bet, is not much different. You notice they suggest just 22mm (7/8th inch) plywood or MDF as material. https://02637fff-b463-452b-ba09-792d2e320fac.filesusr.com/ugd/dbb9c8_37860c1d840c492fb83707adcf9e20c... Look at Magico, Wilson, VSA, speakers using granite cabinets, YG Acoustics, Rockport, etc......now these are serious cabinets. |
@david_ten Yes and big thanks. They were helpful. I am going to auditon them soon (first time didn't really do critical listening as I wanted to see something else). My Coincident Super Victory IIIs will really need a strong speaker to fall out of love with another speakers..but history has proven that it can happen with audio gear 😀 I will report back with my impressions. It will be paired with XA25 and Bakoon amp for the auditon. One thing to note for me, if I do go for the Cubes, the quest to find the right amplifier will soon have to start for me. My Moon amp will not cut it with the Cubes, that I am sure... |
| Post removed |
charles1dad7,779 posts12-21-2020 6:18pmHi Mike, Thanks for sharing your fabulous outcome, sincere congratulations. People who look at the Nenuphar as merely a single driver speaker and question its value just simply miss the point. A speaker doesn’t require multiple drivers, weigh 300-400 pounds with measured bass to 20 HZ in order to be considered superb. There are alternative paths to achieving sonic excellence. Charles ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes Folks worrying over capturing the 20-40hz zone may be going down a wrong path. I wanted to add a single sub to my Thor speakers,,so I ordered a sub amp + 10 inch woofer, , a local tech urged me not to go that route. He said why do you want to add something that will lower the quality of bass the Thors already have. Further research on Troel Gravensens page, where he entions his dual per cabinet Nextel W18003s (Titanium voice coils, which Troels helped Seas to design) gave a **seemingly rich deep bass as if 20-40hz*** = due to dual 6 inch cone material for bass. IOW dual W18's provided sonic bass which sounded so rock solid, , to 40hz, as if 20hz were being voiced. There is so little music in the 20-40hz zone in my classical collection where i feel there is no loss missing these few rare notations. Caveat here is employing high quality Mundorf caps to acheive this extra punch from the W18E001 Excel. These caps are not cheap. Troels also mentions, high quality speakers deserve high quality caps. |
charles1dad7,779 posts06-01-2021 11:56am "There are trade-offs with either approach. Matching YOUR needs and preferences should take priority". Agree 100% David. With this speaker I'd prefer tubes (I just like what tubes do). However no question that there has been much success reported by those who have chosen solid state amplifiers. Superb outcomes are possible with either. Charles ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I can agree with this assessment. But as with you, I prefer employing tubes. a High quality tube amp , on the used market can be had for under $1500, I just don't think there are ss amps under $1500 that can compete. I see tubes as the wave of the future. |
ricevs673 posts06-01-2021 3:04pmThe standard Cube Nenuphar retails for $15.9K......as far as I can see. The drivers list for 6690 Euros ($8176 USD) the pair plus shipping and duty. The mini retails for $12.0K. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OK so we have some vital important info, which i could not find on the Inet. I would say the speaker/driver looks interesting, but not when I compare Cube to my 1st choice in **Full* Range* which is the Voxativ line. Should be September when i add the Vox AC1A's. I will build the cabinet , using sanded ply from HD, cost of material,,,,under $100. Will take me 6 hours/or less to build. Weight each cabinet = 30 lbs +/- 5 lbs. The Vox will be for entire midrange, Seas W18 Excel as bass, some type of AMT/horn for ultra highs 10k+hz range. Basically it will be a 3 way. xover points will overlap. I have no idea how low/high the Vox voices. That is to say, if it does roll off either end of the spectrum, no big deal, as i have both end spectrum handled by other speakers. |
Following are my impressions of my audition of Cube Nenuphars: Please note only digital source was used to keep everything simple and quick switching of tracks. My dealer had all the Cube models on the floor but I only focused on the Nenuphars. Gear used for audition at dealer: Preamp: Miyajima EC-5 Full function preamp Amp: Pass Labs XA25, Bakoon 13R (used as an amp) Sources: 432 Evo server streaming Tidal / DAC: Aqua La Voce Cables: Swiss Cables As soon as I entered some background music was being played at very low levels to warm up the system. I settled down in the seating chair and thought some music was played maybe in the room using some other small speakers (radio or something?) I jumped and put my ears close to the speakers and was surprised that the Cubes were on. So initial impressions were, wow, even at very low levels the speakers completely disappeared! First the the XA25 amp was used. My dealer suggested he play few tracks of his own and then I can suggest any songs I like. He played 3-4 songs and it was very good. Speakers disappearing act, black background, good instrument separation, great midrange. After 3-4 tracks my dealer played, I was like “damn, do I pull my wallet out now or what?” Then… I started requesting songs I know inside out and have been listening for few days in preparation for the audition. Before I get into that, my current system is as follows: Speaker: Coincident Super Victory III (introduced as mk3 from mk 2 just over a year back) Preamp: EAR Yoshino 868PL Amp: Simaudio 330A Sources: Acoustic Solid Metal 111 TT with Jelco TK-850S tonearm, Hana SL Cart; Chord Qutest DAC with Sbooter LPS. Cabling: OCC Silver and Copper full loom from the same brand. I use a power conditioner and run dedicated 15A lines. Various room treatment and isolation tweaks..such as Nordost Kones, Vibrapods etc. I found the Cubes were very good. However, I found that (leaving different room and different gear aside) my current Coincident to have more bass slam and the high were a tad bit “airier”. Maybe due to the 12’ woofer and the ribbon tweeter? Overall, very similar to my current gear’s presentation but without the bass slam and tad bit less air. The Cubes were superior in instrument separation though but that could be due to my current amp. I think the Coincident deserve better amplification, maybe Class A or tubes. Next dealer switched to Bakoon amp. Wow! I am VERY impressed with this amp. Small footprint and it can be run as an intergrated. No idea how they did it in such a small unit! While I enjoyed the Pass XA25 presentation, the Bakoon was cleaner and faster. I thought the bass would have slam, the bass was more or less like that of the XA25 presentation. I mentioned it to my dealer and he said it might be achieved putting the speakers closer to the wall (like Peter Bruninger has it in his listening room). At the dealer, the speakers were pulled front (maybe 3 feet?) from the front wall. The cubes over all had good soundstage (between the speakers, the soundstage did not extend beyond the speakers), good front to back depth, VERY good instrument separation, GREAT “disappearing” act. I didn’t find the bass slam that I currently get with my Coincidents. I am not a bass freak and more of a midrange person..but…bass is important :) After the audition, my dealer and I spoke about amplification. Bakoon is a bit out of my reach financially (more so if I go for the Cubes). He suggested a few good options (all tubes). I may consider those amp options first to try out with my Coincidents first... Apologies, I don’t think I went into details but if anyone has any questions I would be happy to answer if I can. |
Cant believe the dealer didnt have the Nenuphar’s hooked up to Tube Gear. Thats what is ALWAYS used at the trade shows. If he had Pass/First Watt gear around surprised he didnt use any of the SIT’s instead of the XA25. (I have Sit-1, Sit-3 and XA25) I was told by my dealer that I couldnt use the regular size Nenuphar’s in my room because there would be too much bass. Had to get the Mini’s instead. |
Just listened to the Cube’s over on YT, of course my $10 comp speakers are only going to give a hint of how they might sound. Thus I withhold my opinion. I will say I also heard the Vox on YT and I loved what I heard on my $10 comp speakers. Just saying........ 2 Cent opinion. Some here are complaining about 1 whizzer cones, the Cube seems to have *3*. >>>>>EDIT,,Just got back from YT, yes indeed has not 1, not 2, but Three whizzers. Vox has 1 |
@sim_audio_nerd Thanks so much for sharing your impressions from the audition at your dealer. Following what you hear and want for your system is the correct way forward. I look forward to hearing what you decide on for a tube amp paired to your Coincident speakers. Reach out to @charles1dad who will be a terrific resource in this area. |
@
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook The dealer is a low powered tube/high sensitivity speaker proponent. It was due to my request he paired the Nenuphars with the SS amps mentioned above. He is not a Pass Labs dealer so didn't have the SIT amps and only hooked up the XA25 from his personal collection so that I get a taste what the XA25 can do with the Nenuphars. So I guess if I do go for the Nenuphars, I have to pair with lower powered tube amp. I am just a bit hesitant going all tubes in my system but maybe I need to get over my "tube fear". |
@sim_audio_nerd, Thanks for taking the time to post your listening impressions. A number of comments in this thread have touted the Bakoon amplifier as an excellent solid state choice for the Nenuphars. I do feel it’d be really beneficial to hear them with a good tube amplifier for contrast and different presentation. The Coincident Super Victory II is fairly easy to drive but needs more power than the Nenuphar. Which can be driven well with a 2A3 SET (3 to 4 watts usually).and a300b (Usually 7 to 10 watts).quite comfortably. With the Super Victory II I’d go with 20-25 watts or more. You have crossovers and seperate drivers to contend with. This is a non issue with the Nenuphar. I use a 300b 8 watt SET amplifier however my Coincident Total Eclipse II are an easier driven speaker compared to the later model Super Victory II. Charles |
but maybe I need to get over my "tube fear". Low power SET amplifiers are about as simple and straightforward as can be. Very few tubes (Or parts count in general) in these amplifiers and the DHT tubes have pretty good longevity. Also many of them are auto bias designed or simple manual bias. Overall this niche of amplifiers are exceptionally low maintenance. Nothing to fear in my opinion. Charles |
@wyan001 I haven’t been able to, yet. Hi, has anyone got the chance to compare Voxativ vs Cube top model? I would like to as I’m interested in what Voxativ offers. BTW, I was actively considering Voxativ but chose to go with Cube Audio. You probably know this, but in case you do not: Srajan Ebaen of 6Moons has extensive experience / exposure with Voxativ and yet the Nenuphars moved him in a significant way. No speaker does it all and [certainly] they do it differently for each one of us. I cannot see going wrong with either choice. |
Glad to hear positive feedback on the Bakoon 13R. As said, the amp can be operated as an amp only or integrated with its own volume control. There are a limited number of switchable inputs. I choose to run it with just the Bakoon DAC connected via BNC and it makes for a very compact set up. The Bakoon DAC is smaller than the amp. This is feed from a Fidata server. |
No speaker does it all and [certainly] they do it differently for each one of us. I cannot see going wrong with either choice.
~~~~~~ I could understand if this statement was refering to a choice between Voxativ and Feastrex Field Coils. Here the 2 speakers are completely different construction. They most likely will not sound as competitors. |
charles1dad7,783 posts06-07-2021 9:00am "You probably know this, but in case you do not: Srajan Ebaen of 6Moons has extensive experience / exposure with Voxativ and yet the Nenuphars moved him in a significant way." This is true. Charles ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From what I am reading on the comments about Voxativ, I am not sure there is another speaker in its class. The Voxativ room at any audio shows are packed. |
@mozartfan, Choices are plentiful. You’re very enamored with the Voxativ and it has garnered much respect and praise. I could see you being happy with them and understandably so. The Cube Audio Nenuphar has received universal praise from profession reviewers and I believe more significant, testimony of near unbridled joy and satisfaction from actual owners. No doubt that these two brands sound different from each other. Listeners will decide which suits their needs best. Both should continue to enjoy much success. Charles |
@charles1dad "Low power SET amplifiers are about as simple and straightforward as can be. Very few tubes (Or parts count in general) in these amplifiers and the DHT tubes have pretty good longevity. Also many of them are auto bias designed or simple manual bias. Overall this niche of amplifiers are exceptionally low maintenance. Nothing to fear in my opinion" Thanks. I should just jump deep right in. When I changed from SS preamp to my EAR tube preamp, I could not believe the positive sonic attributes tubes brought to my system - more air, more space, more liquidity. I may need to take a leap of faith and overcome my fear and deep right into SET or non-SET tube amp. :) |
sim_audio_nerd, It's possible that you may prefer the Bakoon to a SET but you'll never know without comparing. What you've found in the SS to tube preamplifier transition (Air,space,liquidity) pretty much can be the case for tube amplifiers as well. If you do decide to venture into SET or some lower power push-pull tube amplifiers, make sure that they have good quality output transformers and power supply. Both factors are critical to achieving very good sound quality with tube amplifiers. The Nenuphars will sing! Charles |
charles1dad7,785 posts06-07-2021 2:36pm@mozartfan, Choices are plentiful. You’re very enamored with the Voxativ and it has garnered much respect and praise. I could see you being happy with them and understandably so. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Intuitively I know the Vox will perform as expected = what I've always been searching for. Some of the Vox speakers have low sensitivity, 91db, which may not be so bad, provided the midrange is high fidelity, with no stress, no distortion. Their new model AC1A is rated 97db, I have the power to run the 91db Vox, but why not go for the super sensitivity at 97 for the same price?? btw the Cube is rated 92db, thats below my standard. |
I've heard several systems not made by Voxativ that utilize their drivers and the drivers certainly prove to be quite good. They do a good job with fieldcoil magnets. G.I.P. Laboratories, a Japanese company also makes a very good fieldcoil wide range driver that is around 12" in diameter. The downside is the price which is way up there in Feastrix territory (they make a decent fieldcoil full range driver too. Among the best sounding full/wide range drivers currently available are the models made by the German company AER. The prices range from expensive to crazy expensive, but, I've heard systems employing their drivers that sounded remarkably smooth and lacking in harsh peaks that are common to this type of driver. It is a bit of a sad state of affairs that some really old, no longer made wide-range drivers remain among the very best ever made. I would take the Jensen M-10/ERPI 4151 13" field coil driver over almost any other such driver out there; add a good tweeter you can have an almost matchless system. |
made by the German company AER. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ just cked out the AER web site, The speaker looks good. Will stay focused on Voxativ AC-1A. EDIT WOw that was fast, back froma snippet of a YT vid on the AER. huumm might have to rethink this ,,,i mean, not sure if a decision can be made overa YT vid, but based on this clip, its unreal. Not sure what AER driver is in this cabinet. Going to discuss this with Richard Gray, see if he has any ideas which direction I shpuld go. Most likely buy one lab(Vox) late sept, then the other labs late next year have a shootout and sell one pair. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4JiATvSVeY |
so like i was doing some reserach on the AER, there is a **SINGLE** driver for sale $900, hummm, why just 1??? so I got to thinking,,,just wondering if the AER price list is for a SINGLE DRIVER,,,,so I found another web page that lists AER's price list,, Sure enough, these retail asa single driver. This is why Vox, makes sure you understand their price list is for a ~PAIR~~ Why list a speaker at a single price???? I have no further interest whatsoever in AER. Thanks , but no thanks. https://aer-loudspeakers.com/retail-pricelist-2/ |
Havent even got them yet. Suppose to arrive end of May. I sent an email to the Dealer last week to see where the heck they are....he contacted the distributor...they havent even been shipped yet. SUPPOSEDLY they will be making 2 shipments to the distributor in the next 2 weeks and mine SHOULD be in there. Not holding my breath....its been a 9 month ordeal since this started. What a way to run a business!! I would tell anybody NOT to order a custom color or wood finish. Just accept Black or White otherwise you'll be in Speaker Purgatory. They wont be hooked up anytime soon after I get them so ask me in 2022 :) |
david_ten OP4,484 posts06-07-2021 8:33pmA reminder that this thread is for the Cube Audio Neuphar speaker. Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thats ok, When I get my Voxativ speakers sometime late september, all comments are welcome, mention any speaker you wish. = Open forum. Regards The Hifi Guy |
David, Did you demo before your purchased the Cube? I am interested in hearing these as the AV showroom Peter B has them and it seems as if he can own just about any speaker available. What speakers did you own before these? You’re not far from me as I live in Destin, four hours away, hint hint 😎 I take it you still have them. |
@glory Hi. I did not demo the Nenuphars before purchase. I've owned a number of speakers. I did take an 8 year break from speaker based 2 Ch audio (headphones during that time). Immediately prior to the Nenuphars, I had the Tekton SEs, Chario Academy Sonnets, and Gemme Tanto V2s. Prior to those my primary speakers were Vaughn and Totem Winds. I'm probably missing a few. You are welcome to demo them in my home. |
Dawid Gryzb / HiFi Knights review of the Cube Audio Nenuphar Mini: http://hifiknights.com/reviews/speakers/cube-audio-nenuphar-mini/ |
rwpollock Always nice to hear one's ears corroborated--although I auditioned the FirstWatt SIT-1s not the 2s and did not audition the Bakoon 13-R or the LTA Z10--although did audition the LTA Ultralinear. I am curious how the L2iSE would stack up against some of the better lower watt SETs out there but none have found their way through my door. |
