"It’s interesting and surprising that we don’t have mention of 300B - Nenuphar pairings."
For whatever reasons, this thread got started with a focus on solid state amplifiers and has discussed/explored tube amps only minimally. I suspect it is because Jon Ver Halen at Refined Audio (the first Cube Audio distributor in the US) uses First Watt amplifiers.
I can’t recall a single mention of a 300b SET amplifier and Nenuphar pairing. I believe that it would be as successful as the 2A3 SET amplifier.
Stephen, I explored various 300B options but, as you know, doubled down on the 2A3.
Going by gut feel from having the Nenuphars for two and a half years, I believe the ~8 watts from a high quality 300B amp is the "goldilocks zone" for power (in terms of driving the Nenuphars with a SET amp).
There are far more quality 300B amps (relative to the other SETs) including stereo versions; and greater availability / choice in the used marketplace. It’s interesting and surprising that we don’t have mention of 300B - Nenuphar pairings.
@stevendunn, I can't recall a single mention of a 300b SET amplifier and Nenuphar pairing. I believe that it would be as successful as the 2A3 SET amplifier. Both excellent choices with different sonic signatures and presentations. Charles
Robert Thanks for update on tubes. I believe the Takatsuki are VR's preferred DHT's for the L2iSE.
Charles I wish I knew the 300b better as a driver. Wondering in fact if there's anyone on the thread who is driving the Nens with the 300bs, can't recall. Would love to hear their impressions.
David From specs and reviews I think the Absolare Hybrid Integrated would be a terrific match and the audio I hear confirms. BTW I did try using my Townshend super tweeters with my Nenuphars and honestly could not hear that they contributed to sound quality. Could it be amp dependent?
Since we’ve been discussing amps...here are two short clips of the Nenuphar being driven by Absolare’s Hybrid Integrated SE. Posting since I don’t recall mention of an Absolare pairing in this thread. Please correct me if that isn’t the case.
Courtesy of Dükkan Hifi, a dealer in Turkey. Note the use of Townshend Audio Supertweeters. There is a comment regarding their negative impact on sound quality, though Dukkan mentions in-person listening for a better / correct evaluation. I personally don’t see [hear] the need for the addition of supertweeters. Curious, nonetheless...Anyone using them with Cube Audio speakers?
I realize that the 300b tube is being discussed in the context of utilization for preamplifier section duty. I've only used them as output tubes in power amplifiers. I do believe that to get the best from this splendid (My opinion) tube you have to use the premium level options which admittedly are expensive (But worth it).
Elrog, EML,KR, Takatsuki, these are going to yield exceptionally good sound quality. Worth the cost if you have the level of audio systems/components under discussion here. The Nenuphars will easily reveal the improvement these higher tier 300b tubes provide. I wouldn't cut corners. Charles
Re the different solid state amps: I wanted to note that the main difference for me was that the FirstWatt amps had a bit more of the mid-range-icity that is a major attraction of tube SETs.
My first comparison was between the Electro Harmonix 300b that came with the amp and an EH 2a3 set. I preferred the 2a3 as the 300b tubes were 'slower' even though they had a richer sound. That trade-off was solver with a set of Takatsuki 300b -- the best of both worlds and my current favorite. I do have some KR Audio T-100 DHT on order. I will keep you posted.
In the meantime, I have tried some NOS tubes: 71A and 112a (Most the old tubes seem to run at 5V). The 71A were a bit lean, but the 112a Cunninghams are now in second place after the (pricey) Takas.
Robert Please share your findings with tube trials in the VR L2iSE. I have only tried Electro Harmonix and Elrog 300bs and the Linlai 2A3. The latter was a clear winner, I mentioned it's attributes in an earlier post and Srajan has a very positive review. Like to hear what you're rolling. The Nenuphars obviously love tubes and are a great lens of their different qualities.
"Could you elaborate please on your particular set up for evaluating these amps, the make of preamp and/or dac used with the First Watt amps and dac if any with the Bakoon and LTA? Do you use the VR with its dac board?"
The source is an Aurender N10 paired with a Holo Audio Spring DAC (Level 3) or a COS D1. With the power amps I used a Backert tube preamp, the original Rhythm. The 12au7 tubes were upgraded with NOS Mullards.
I found that I preferred some tubes in the signal path. The SIT-2 and SIT-3 were very close when used directly with the COS (no preamp). To these ears the SIT-2 improved more when the Backert was added to the chain. I could easily live with either of the FirstWatt amps or the Bakoon, but the LTA lacked some musical magic. I never did get entirely comfortable with the volume control on the Bakoon.
could you elaborate please on your particular set up for evaluating these amps, the make of preamp and/or dac used with the First Watt amps and dac if any with the Bakoon and LTA? Do you use the VR with its dac board?
rwpollock Always nice to hear one's ears corroborated--although I auditioned the FirstWatt SIT-1s not the 2s and did not audition the Bakoon 13-R or the LTA Z10--although did audition the LTA Ultralinear. I am curious how the L2iSE would stack up against some of the better lower watt SETs out there but none have found their way through my door.
I've owned a number of speakers. I did take an 8 year break from speaker based 2 Ch audio (headphones during that time). Immediately prior to the Nenuphars, I had the Tekton SEs, Chario Academy Sonnets, and Gemme Tanto V2s. Prior to those my primary speakers were Vaughn and Totem Winds. I'm probably missing a few.
@riaa Thanks for the update. I was frustrated with the wait for mine, in standard finish. @charles1dad was instrumental in my not walking away. It will be well worth the wait. It certainly was for me.
david_tenOP4,484 posts06-07-2021 8:33pmA reminder that this thread is for the Cube Audio Neuphar speaker. Thanks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thats ok, When I get my Voxativ speakers sometime late september, all comments are welcome, mention any speaker you wish. = Open forum. Regards The Hifi Guy
Havent even got them yet. Suppose to arrive end of May. I sent an email to the Dealer last week to see where the heck they are....he contacted the distributor...they havent even been shipped yet. SUPPOSEDLY they will be making 2 shipments to the distributor in the next 2 weeks and mine SHOULD be in there. Not holding my breath....its been a 9 month ordeal since this started. What a way to run a business!! I would tell anybody NOT to order a custom color or wood finish. Just accept Black or White otherwise you'll be in Speaker Purgatory. They wont be hooked up anytime soon after I get them so ask me in 2022 :)
so like i was doing some reserach on the AER, there is a **SINGLE** driver for sale $900, hummm, why just 1??? so I got to thinking,,,just wondering if the AER price list is for a SINGLE DRIVER,,,,so I found another web page that lists AER's price list,, Sure enough, these retail asa single driver. This is why Vox, makes sure you understand their price list is for a ~PAIR~~ Why list a speaker at a single price???? I have no further interest whatsoever in AER. Thanks , but no thanks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ just cked out the AER web site, The speaker looks good. Will stay focused on Voxativ AC-1A.
EDIT WOw that was fast, back froma snippet of a YT vid on the AER. huumm might have to rethink this ,,,i mean, not sure if a decision can be made overa YT vid, but based on this clip, its unreal. Not sure what AER driver is in this cabinet. Going to discuss this with Richard Gray, see if he has any ideas which direction I shpuld go. Most likely buy one lab(Vox) late sept, then the other labs late next year have a shootout and sell one pair.
I've heard several systems not made by Voxativ that utilize their drivers and the drivers certainly prove to be quite good. They do a good job with fieldcoil magnets. G.I.P. Laboratories, a Japanese company also makes a very good fieldcoil wide range driver that is around 12" in diameter. The downside is the price which is way up there in Feastrix territory (they make a decent fieldcoil full range driver too.
Among the best sounding full/wide range drivers currently available are the models made by the German company AER. The prices range from expensive to crazy expensive, but, I've heard systems employing their drivers that sounded remarkably smooth and lacking in harsh peaks that are common to this type of driver.
It is a bit of a sad state of affairs that some really old, no longer made wide-range drivers remain among the very best ever made. I would take the Jensen M-10/ERPI 4151 13" field coil driver over almost any other such driver out there; add a good tweeter you can have an almost matchless system.
charles1dad7,785 posts06-07-2021 2:36pm@mozartfan, Choices are plentiful. You’re very enamored with the Voxativ and it has garnered much respect and praise. I could see you being happy with them and understandably so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Intuitively I know the Vox will perform as expected = what I've always been searching for. Some of the Vox speakers have low sensitivity, 91db, which may not be so bad, provided the midrange is high fidelity, with no stress, no distortion. Their new model AC1A is rated 97db, I have the power to run the 91db Vox, but why not go for the super sensitivity at 97 for the same price?? btw the Cube is rated 92db, thats below my standard.
Would love to try a Bakoon for my Nenuphars but cant find any dealers selling for much less than MSRP. Every other brand Im interested in I can get at least 20% off. Its a pity
sim_audio_nerd, It's possible that you may prefer the Bakoon to a SET but you'll never know without comparing. What you've found in the SS to tube preamplifier transition (Air,space,liquidity) pretty much can be the case for tube amplifiers as well.
If you do decide to venture into SET or some lower power push-pull tube amplifiers, make sure that they have good quality output transformers and power supply. Both factors are critical to achieving very good sound quality with tube amplifiers. The Nenuphars will sing! Charles
"Low power SET amplifiers are about as simple and straightforward as can be. Very few tubes (Or parts count in general) in these amplifiers and the DHT tubes have pretty good longevity. Also many of them are auto bias designed or simple manual bias. Overall this niche of amplifiers are exceptionally low maintenance. Nothing to fear in my opinion"
Thanks. I should just jump deep right in. When I changed from SS preamp to my EAR tube preamp, I could not believe the positive sonic attributes tubes brought to my system - more air, more space, more liquidity.
I may need to take a leap of faith and overcome my fear and deep right into SET or non-SET tube amp. :)
@mozartfan, Choices are plentiful. You’re very enamored with the Voxativ and it has garnered much respect and praise. I could see you being happy with them and understandably so.
The Cube Audio Nenuphar has received universal praise from profession reviewers and I believe more significant, testimony of near unbridled joy and satisfaction from actual owners. No doubt that these two brands sound different from each other. Listeners will decide which suits their needs best. Both should continue to enjoy much success. Charles
charles1dad7,783 posts06-07-2021 9:00am "You probably know this, but in case you do not: Srajan Ebaen of 6Moons has extensive experience / exposure with Voxativ and yet the Nenuphars moved him in a significant way."
This is true. Charles
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From what I am reading on the comments about Voxativ, I am not sure there is another speaker in its class. The Voxativ room at any audio shows are packed.
No speaker does it all and [certainly] they do it differently for each one of us. I cannot see going wrong with either choice.
~~~~~~ I could understand if this statement was refering to a choice between Voxativ and Feastrex Field Coils. Here the 2 speakers are completely different construction. They most likely will not sound as competitors.
Glad to hear positive feedback on the Bakoon 13R. As said, the amp can be operated as an amp only or integrated with its own volume control. There are a limited number of switchable inputs. I choose to run it with just the Bakoon DAC connected via BNC and it makes for a very compact set up. The Bakoon DAC is smaller than the amp. This is feed from a Fidata server.
"You probably know this, but in case you do not: Srajan Ebaen of 6Moons has extensive experience / exposure with Voxativ and yet the Nenuphars moved him in a significant way."
Hi, has anyone got the chance to compare Voxativ vs Cube top model?
I would like to as I’m interested in what Voxativ offers. BTW, I was actively considering Voxativ but chose to go with Cube Audio.
You probably know this, but in case you do not: Srajan Ebaen of 6Moons has extensive experience / exposure with Voxativ and yet the Nenuphars moved him in a significant way.
No speaker does it all and [certainly] they do it differently for each one of us. I cannot see going wrong with either choice.
Low power SET amplifiers are about as simple and straightforward as can be. Very few tubes (Or parts count in general) in these amplifiers and the DHT tubes have pretty good longevity. Also many of them are auto bias designed or simple manual bias. Overall this niche of amplifiers are exceptionally low maintenance. Nothing to fear in my opinion. Charles
@sim_audio_nerd, Thanks for taking the time to post your listening impressions. A number of comments in this thread have touted the Bakoon amplifier as an excellent solid state choice for the Nenuphars. I do feel it’d be really beneficial to hear them with a good tube amplifier for contrast and different presentation.
The Coincident Super Victory II is fairly easy to drive but needs more power than the Nenuphar. Which can be driven well with a 2A3 SET (3 to 4 watts usually).and a300b (Usually 7 to 10 watts).quite comfortably. With the Super Victory II I’d go with 20-25 watts or more. You have crossovers and seperate drivers to contend with. This is a non issue with the Nenuphar.
I use a 300b 8 watt SET amplifier however my Coincident Total Eclipse II are an easier driven speaker compared to the later model Super Victory II. Charles
@
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook The dealer is a low powered tube/high sensitivity speaker proponent. It was due to my request he paired the Nenuphars with the SS amps mentioned above. He is not a Pass Labs dealer so didn't have the SIT amps and only hooked up the XA25 from his personal collection so that I get a taste what the XA25 can do with the Nenuphars.
So I guess if I do go for the Nenuphars, I have to pair with lower powered tube amp. I am just a bit hesitant going all tubes in my system but maybe I need to get over my "tube fear".
@sim_audio_nerd Thanks so much for sharing your impressions from the audition at your dealer. Following what you hear and want for your system is the correct way forward.
I look forward to hearing what you decide on for a tube amp paired to your Coincident speakers. Reach out to @charles1dad who will be a terrific resource in this area.
Just listened to the Cube’s over on YT, of course my $10 comp speakers are only going to give a hint of how they might sound. Thus I withhold my opinion. I will say I also heard the Vox on YT and I loved what I heard on my $10 comp speakers. Just saying........ 2 Cent opinion. Some here are complaining about 1 whizzer cones, the Cube seems to have *3*. >>>>>EDIT,,Just got back from YT, yes indeed has not 1, not 2, but Three whizzers. Vox has 1
Cant believe the dealer didnt have the Nenuphar’s hooked up to Tube Gear. Thats what is ALWAYS used at the trade shows. If he had Pass/First Watt gear around surprised he didnt use any of the SIT’s instead of the XA25. (I have Sit-1, Sit-3 and XA25) I was told by my dealer that I couldnt use the regular size Nenuphar’s in my room because there would be too much bass. Had to get the Mini’s instead.
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