Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

I used sophia electric 91-01 monoblock 300b SETs with my Nenuphar Mini’s. Sounded fantastic. Plenty of output. Great detail, texture and very controlled, nuanced bass. I’m actually selling the amps however not because they were lacking in any way. Just that we moved and have some house projects to take care of and I need to sell some gear. I also have some hardly used Takatsuki 300b’s that take everything up a few notches. 

I want to make clear that the Nenuphar driver and enclosure design has limitations, specific to it. As does any speaker design. For illustration purposes, a large scale multi-driver speaker will deliver aspects related to large scale orchestral music that will fall short with the Nenuphars. On the other hand, the Nenuphars will deliver in areas those speakers fall short in.

@mga71 I believe I’ve posted on this before (if memory serves). IF NOT, here goes:

With this version* of the F10 Neo drivers: it is my opinion, based on two and a half years of personal experience, that the power output from a 300B SET amp is in the "ideal range" to drive the Nenuphars (F10 Neo + TQWT enclosure).

I continue to be surprised that owners have not used 300B SET amps to drive the Nenuphars. Even if I ignore [IMO] the "ideal power output synergy", the far wider numbers and brand options available (versus other SET types), the spread of options over a wide price range, the healthy used market, all point to a higher probability match.

My previous 2A3s were purposely designed to output 4 Watts. My current 2A3s are purposely designed to output 3 Watts. In both cases, my percentage of large scale orchestral music listening has increased. Note: this is also due to and dependent of other system based changes.

My room is 19 ft wide (front wall) by 26 ft long by 9 ft tall.

Given what I’m hearing across a fairly wide range of music genres, for my preferences and needs AND room size, I would not want to go below 3 Watts. Again, this is for a very wide range of genres. If someone is focused on smaller scale acoustic genres, then lower output power will be fine.

Is anybody using a SET 300B amp (~8W) on the Nenuphar listening to large orchestral classical music? 

Is that expected to work well in a 12x18ft room (4mx6m)?

BTW I should make clear that my previous post regarding sub woofing the Nens is not meant to be a blanket recommendation to do same.  My set up puts the speakers far from corners, sidewalls and front wall (to emphasize breadth and depth of soundstage) and my ceiling height is over 20'.  So there is little ambient base reinforcement which accounts for the KEF KC62 making a more positive impact than it might in another set up.  And I meant 60Hz not 60db for crossover.

Re the Ansuz cables, I have a set of D1 which, given the improvements from the 1 generation to the 2 generation, may be equivalent to the C2 level. Agreed that their power products are the place to go; I bought their other wires in a package deal I couldn't refuse from someone who was upgrading at the time.

At a lower price point I would certainly recommend the LessLoss products; Atelier 13 in Nashville offers a loaner two-week home trial. The package contains an assortment, but once again power is the ruler.

- Robert

rwpollock - which model Ansuz cables are you referring to that you place as your first preference.

I have C2 level Mainz Power Distributor and C2 Mainz power cables. Have always been tempted by their speaker cables but seem to think (from what I've read and researched) that their power products are the sweet spot in their lineup.

rwpollock I am happily using Shunyata Alpha v2 speaker cables.

The Case for Base

Over the past few weeks I've been auditioning a KEF KC62 subwoofer with my Nenuphars.  I did this not because I'm a base head or because I felt the Nens lacking down there, but simply out of curiosity (and the positive feedback of others who have added a sub or two) and the fact that KEF offers a 30 day return.

But, spoiler alert, I won't be returning this remarkable little subwoofer.  I've incorporated it to have such an effect that I have to admit I had no idea what I was missing.  And it's not slam pounding my chest at 95 db but the overall added musicality, a rich foundation which, when the sub is off, makes the Nens sound unbalanced, almost thin (I know, hard to believe, but that is the impression when one is a/b-ing).  To use a b&w photographic metaphor, I was missing the dark shades of grey through to pure black with the Nens by themselves.  There is now a foundation to the music that was meant to be there and was missing.  The real test for me were simple acoustic recordings with stand up base (read Charlie Haden with anybody) and one or two other instruments.  With the KEF sub dialed in properly, bringing the base forward in a tuneful yet solid way, these recordings had more presence, involvement and reality.  As if their true balance was restored.  And of course the same held true if not even more so for music with bigger base, rock and orchestral, etc.    

Obviously I'm a new comer to the sub party and there are no doubt better applications than adding one ten inch sub woofer, but my room is fairly small and this tuneful gem is doing the job to my great delight.  BTW I did the sub "crawl" thing to find the best location, which oddly turned out to be right next to my listening chair. I use the 60db crossover and not quite half volume.  No muddying of mid bass or any other downside I can hear.  Fun stuff. Brings the Nens to another level of enjoyment.

<<I thought it would be interesting to know what speaker cables you are liking with the Nenuphar’s?>>

I've used three types. In order of preference:
Ansuz
LessLoss
Stealth
Of course the amplifier plays a significant role as well.

 - Robert

Thanks David.  That is how I got to ask you this question; I have posted in this thread.  I will just have to wait, like everyone else.

@larryi   'Recent Postings' access is down site wide.  Admin is working on it. Best way to access and post is via the 'Related To You' portal.

Please excuse me for posting something irrelevant here, but, has anyone else had problems with getting to "recent" postings?  I cannot get there on either my laptop at work or my iPad at home.

@toetapaudio Richard, I’m using Found Music speaker cables. I compared them, over a long in-home audition, with SR’s Atmosphere X Level 3 Euphoria speaker cables.

I chose Found Music for my analog cables [SC + IC...I still use SR on the digital side] as they were slightly more natural within the context of my system.

Mentioning the above because the SR cables are solid performers as well, and are widely available.

Survey: I thought it would be interesting to know what speaker cables you are liking with the Nenuphar’s? Thanks in advance.

Currently I’m using towards top of the range Hi-Diamond.

@david_ten.  Thanks for that specific feedback.  I like that you play stuff that's hits harder than my examples.  I think that's the right word for the sort of music I wanted to make sure the Nenuphars could handle.  Thank you for confirming!

"great looking stereo! love the finish"

 Agree! Dark, rich and very elegant and matches well with the color of the cone. Really nice high gloss finish.
Charles

^ great looking stereo! love the finish

If anybody’s interested, just put up some more photos on my virtual system page with better views of the speaker cabinet finish.

Continue to be impressed with the sound of the Decware - just amazing clarity. I’m thinking... Nenuphar with direct wire to driver (no crossover) plus simple signal path of the Decware (one V-cap capacitor and two resistors) = absolute signal purity.

Also, Vinnie Rossi L2iSE in preamp only mode - directly heated triodes (DHT) run in a dual-mono, class-A with zero feedback, Belleson super regulators for ultra-quiet linear voltage regulation of the triodes, no coupling transformers, internal DAC with (inches) short signal path to preamp stage, discrete, 64-step resistor ladder volume control using Pickering England silent signal relays.

Minimalist approach brings out the absolute best in the Nens.

@splunders Adding to @stephendunn ’s @toetapaudio ’s and @abd1 ’s posts...

I listen to a wide range of music ranging from large scale classical to EDM and much in between. With the more recent changes / upgrades of components my percentage of large scale classical has increased...which, I believe, says a lot...especially since the Nenuphars are a single driver speaker.

I listened to Darkside and Kelly Lee Owens since I’m not familiar with them. Much of the electronic / EDM music I listen to is ’harder’ than both. Electronic music is stellar via the Nenuphars (and my system).

I regularly post some of what I’m listening to on the "Whats playing on your system today?" thread. If you are curious, look to the last three pages of the thread for a sampling, across genres.

All of the artists and groups you listed will be beautifully expressed via the Nenuphar and your FW SIT 3 pairing. Others have addressed the Decware pairing and synergy earlier.

Thanks for the responses.  Honestly, my biggest concern is they cost 15k, so I don't want to find out later they're amazing only with acoustic jazz or something, and everything else is just fine.

The music I've been listening to lately has run the gamut from old A Tribe Called Quest (hiphop), the new Billie Eilish album, Faye Webster (indie singer songwriter), Kelly Lee Owens (electronic) Darkside (um?) And Badbadnotgood (jazz). 

I've been pretty satisfied with my Zus, especially when I moved from a PrimaLuna ProLogue 5 to the SIT 3.  (I have an LTA MicroZOTL preamp, and also run a pair of Rel T5i's.)  I'd say this combo brings a lot of that "alive"-ness factor to the table, but it sounds like the Nenuphars take things to a special level, and I want that.  

@splunders  Can you share more about your concerns, for example any genre specific issues with your current Zu speakers - FW-3 amplifier pairing?  The types of music you listen to? Etc.  Thanks. - David.

@splundersCurious to hear your thoughts on the SIT3 vs Decware. I’ve been on a tube journey but if I try solid state the SIT3 is at the top of my list. 
I have the Mini’s and I concur with stephendunn about how these just sound so natural. I also love how they can sound big and dynamic at low volumes. That works well for me because I’m often awake early and like to listen to music but don’t want to wake the house. I augment the bass with subs. Had been using REL T5I’S and was really impressed how well they integrated and didn’t draw attention to themselves. I recently have been playing with a JL Audio F110 and while it certainly digs much deeper I’m still unsure if I prefer it to the pair of RELs. I’m going to take my time in figuring it out but for years I refused the idea of adding a sub to my 2-channel but now I think I couldn’t go without. Not only does it help with bass but it really helps create depth in the soundstage. 

I echo what Stephen has said and agree high quality live recordings are very satisfying. I mainly play jazz of various flavours but the Nenuphar’s also work for me with classical and rock.

splunders  I listen to Classical, Jazz, world music and a lot of contemporary categories including pop (but not including heavy metal, etc.).  The Nens have outperformed all previous speakers by a margin, including Shindo Petite Latours, Audio Physic Codex,Martin Logan Expression 13L and Alumine 3s.  The quality that puts them above this formidable group?  Simpy put: how alive and natural they sound.  All of this to my ears of course.  I don't feel like they favor any genre, but I do think one of their strengths is reproducing live recordings.  They are just uncanny at this, putting you in the venue with the orchestra, jazz group, or rock band, etc.  If forced to name a weakness I would say that the quality of the bass, although always solid and robust, will vary depending on amp used.  I will be testing an external woofer soon, with and without a bypass filter.  This is just to satisfy my constant audio curiosity because I can happily live with the bass I hear using my VR L2iSE.

I've really enjoyed this very informative and civil thread.  I have a First Watt SIT 3.  I also happen to have a Decware Zen Triode SE84UFO2 on order from this past February, so I will have two amps which pair well with these speakers.  Currently the SIT 3 powers a pair of Zu Audio Soul Mark IIs.  I'm considering the Nenuphars, but am curious if they are geared to certain styles of music, or if they play well with all genres.  Thoughts?

I figured the Alan Eaton would work well w Cubes but this certainly has me thinking. I use Omega's, the cheap mans Cube? It is a very musical combo w great synergy. It is the only amp that made me, dare I say, pack up the Decware. I was worried about the 91db efficiency - I guess this is not the case 😃

@dspringham I love the finish on your cube’s. I have mini’s in matte walnut and my wife says I can’t get new speakers anymore because she loves the look, and sound. Like that you’re using a relatively inexpensive amp with very (IMO) speakers and front end. I’m currently using an Alan Eaton 45 amp that I got for around $900 with my Nenuphar Mini’s. I also have a pair of 300b SET monoblocks. The mono’s paint a more vivid, clear and detailed picture but the 45 amp is just more engaging to listen. I get stuck listening to it whereas I don’t get as drawn in with the mono’s. It’s also only about 1.5 wpc but it never seems flat or not enough. Rest of the chain is an Auralic G1 streamer to Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC1 to Don Sachs preamp to amp, all powered by a psaudio p12 regenerator. Guess it goes to show how versatile these speakers can be that you can pair them with inexpensive tube amps and still sound great. 

@dspringham,
"Honestly, I though the VR L2iSE did sound just fine with it’s built-in single device JFET output stage but the Zen just adds that last bit of air, righteous tone and life-breathing liveliness that takes favourite tunes a higher plane."

Very well described! As much as I enjoyed my prior solid state amplifier and then some very fine class A/B push-pull tube amplifiers, the class A lower watt SET was just more "alive" sounding and emotionally connecting. In a nutshell more "breath of life" realness and tactile. Obviously not everyone will agree but @dspringham I relate to your listening comparison experience/evolution .

Here’s additional clarification re. my post on performance ~ sound volume ~ vis a vis low output power amps. In this case, my Found Music 2A3s.

My reference is the normal volumes I listen to music. A majority of my listening generally falls in the mid to high 70 dB (average) SPL range at my listening position (common room/area reasons). I will listen in the low to mid 80 dB (average) SPL range when I’m by myself. These numbers are for acoustic Jazz...not, repeat not EDM, which I play at higher volumes when I’m by myself.

Note: Average SPLs are measured with mobile apps...not accurate of course, but in the ballpark.

@dspringham Thanks for posting your photos. Gorgeous. Can’t wait for the close-ups!!!

What base are you using for the front spikes?

Thanks also for sharing your system chain. What are your thoughts on the K30 server/player?

I'v posted a few photos under a quickly assembled systems page (dspringham's System). I'll have to some close up to showcase the Nenuphar cabinets - really quite gorgeous - the high gloss piano finish is elegant.

Signal chain;
Ansuz C2 Power Distributor and power cables > Antipodes K30 Digital Player/Server with local SS drive storage > USB > Vinnie Rossi L2iSE w/DAC module (currently used as preamp with Elrog 300B or Linlai Global 2A3 tubes) > single ended Decware Silver interconnects > Decware Super Zen SE84UFO2 (V-Caps, Decware Silver power cable) > Decware silver plated speaker cables > Cube Audio Nenuphar.

Additional recent listening has reinforced the attributes of the "little" Decware. Can't get over how well this measly 2 watts propels the Nenuphars. The Zen has top deck hi/low output transformer selector (2-8/8-16) switches but I don't detect much difference switching between the two.

The other cool thing about the Zen is the tube rolling possibilities with rectifier, output and driver tubes options. Already drooling over the prospect of the Anniversary rendition, however the backlog for new builds is too lengthy. Preowned - good luck.

Honestly, I though the VR L2iSE did sound just fine with it's built-in single device JFET output stage but the Zen just adds that last bit of air, righteous tone and life-breathing liveliness that takes favourite tunes a higher plane. By the way, the Zen is absolutely quiet at idle.

They work well with low-powered amps because they sound extremely lively and engaging at lower volume levels.  Unlike most contemporary speakers, you don't have to crank them up to get your toes tapping.  I am a fan of that kind of sound, whether from full-range/wide range drivers or from horn-based systems.

@david_ten,

"This despite Nenuphar specs, which suggest otherwise" 

Good point but only if one relies exclusively on specs and numbers on printed paper and ignore the actual words uttered by Grzegorz  Rulka. He will with patience and conviction explain precisely why the Nenuphars preform brilliantly with low power tube amplifiers (Of suitable quality)  with zero NFB and high output impedance.  Just ask him😊.

The added bonus of the Nenuphar is it is capable of performing very well with amplifiers that do not fit those clearly stated parameters. Grzegorz has been very open about the design and targeted amplification for his speaker. I readily acknowledge that there are people driving the Nenuphars with solid state amplifiers quite successfully. 
Charles 

you gotta love speakers like this that bring out everything that this mighty 2 watts has to offer

Highlighting the important point Dave ( @dspringham ) makes.

This despite Nenuphar specs, which suggest otherwise.

@dspringham  Congratulations!!!

Would love to see the finish you chose. Can you link to a photo?

Nenuphar in Smoked Eucalyptus (piano gloss finish)

I'm also curious about your component chain ahead of the Vinnie Rossi?  Thanks.

dspringham  Glad making the blind leap to the Nenuphars worked out.  I think many on this thread had to do the same, as did I.

The best option for matching the Decware triode SETs using the VR L2iSE as DHT pre is not exactly clear to me.  Since I prefer the balanced output,  two apparent options are A) the SE84UFO25 with the 
SBIT balanced to single end converter or B) a pair of the SE84UFO2 with XLR inputs and the Anniversary upgrades.  I have an email into Steve to
see which might be preferable.  And yes re lead time I took a gander at his build list and it is over 400 orders long!

I would have to think the 25 Anniversary Zen would be perfect or these;
https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84UFO3.html

As I had mentioned, the bass may give the illusion of being "better" but I thinks it's actually just more full, resonant and natural sounding. Some people may prefer a tighter more concise representation. Upright double bass on the "Nens" with the "Zens" sounds great.

Actually Stephen, I must give you the credit for my purchase of the Nenuphars based on your review and pairing with the VR L2iSE. Since I already a VR in place, I thought your prior experience with this amp and speaker combo made the decision somewhat less risky (since I was buying without prior audition).

The challenge with Decware is finding used pieces is somewhat rare and new production is way backed up.

dspringham  Your post is scarily prescient regarding my own curiosity over pairing a Decware SET with the Nens fronted by the L2iSE as pre. In fact, I just recently queried a new Cube Audio dealer in California who says he also represents Decware (whatever that means since they sell direct) about whether he had heard the 25th Anniversary Zen Triode with the Nens.  He hadn't but had heard from others it was a killer combo--as I suspected and you just confirmed.  Interesting that you find the bass much improved, but that probably has to do with higher output impedance of the VR L2iSE, which for what it's worth, I now prefer with the Takatsuki 300bs having run both the Elrogs and the Linlai 2A3 previously.  Congrats on your set up and new purchase of the Nenuphars.  I assume you are using the 8ohm speaker taps on the Super Zen.  Now all you have to do to utterly satisfy my musings is to try two of those Decware wonders!

New owner here... Nenuphar in Smoked Eucalyptus (piano gloss finish). Coming from Harbeth 40.1 and Raidho D1.1. Very impressed with this speaker. All the accolades as already mentioned in this thread.

Began use with Vinnie Rossi L2iSE (Elrog 300B and Linlai Global E-2A3). Very nice sound per other users here - HOWEVER - took a chance an a preowned purchase of a Decware Super Zen SE84UFO2 (V-Caps). Wasn’t sure if 2-watts would do it but holy cow! Using the Rossi as DHT preamp feeding the Decware proved to be quite a surprise. With Decware silver interconnects and speaker cable the sound is strong (at my conservative listening levels) with impressive detail, depth, separation and wonderful tonality.

I think this configuration drips with tube goodness. Not lush, solid state fast, really good frequency extension at both ends of the spectrum. Believe the bass sounds stronger with the Decware than with the 100 w/channel Rossi output ss output section (once again, at moderate SPL’s). Maybe something to do with damping - bass just sounds more full and resonant (maybe less tight and controlled but more realistic with my acoustic and jazz music preferences). Highs are airy and crisp. Steel guitar strings have that "bronzy" sheen. Vocals (ie Mark Knopfler) are gripping and gravely as they should be

So, seems like nice match with the Cube’s. This little Decware is impressive but you gotta love speakers like this that bring out everything that this mighty 2 watts has to offer with it’s short, bare-bones signal path.

Regarding DHT tubes, I prefer the Linlai 2A3’s with the Rossi’s internal FET amp and the Elrogs with the Rossi in preamp only duty with the Decware.

Cheers...

An update that's a non-update. : )

The comparison of the Found Music 2A3 amps directly into the Furutech wall outlets to the 2A3 amps direct into the SR PowerCell is taking longer than I expected. 

Both 'powering chains' are resulting in beautiful music. Many more similarities than differences. No clear preference. At this time.

I've chosen not to complicate things by introducing the T+A amp into the mix. I'll wait until I've reached a conclusion and/or choice regarding the 2A3 amps directly into the wall OR into the SR PowerCell.

I consider/find the 2A3 amps to be fully run in now. They have over 1200 hours of active play time on them. They have been stable in my system, post hurricane Ida electricity restoration and the Furutech install, for over 350 hours.

I also believe the Furutech outlets are run in to my satisfaction. They have over 200 hours of active play time. And over 340 hours drawing current. [Note: this is contrary to what many report].

Some might find the SPEC to not be incisive enough. If so, that can be cured by pairing it with your favorite preamp....

DB2

@rwpollock   Robert, thanks for sharing your experience with the SPEC integrated amp and congratulations on finding another successful and satisfying pairing for your Nenuphars.

Paired with my Nenuphars, the SPEC was in the upper echelon, keeping company with my SIT-2 and Vinnie Rossi integrated.

Mr. Shirokazu Yazaki's (and his design team's) efforts have been on my radar, for some time now, because of what you eloquently concluded:

"The amp isn't about that bump in the upper mid-bass; the focus is on tone. Instead of listening with my forebrain I find myself listening a little deeper."

I encourage those curious about SPEC to read Jeff Day's Positive Feedback review, which Robert linked in his post. It is thorough and complete...wish more reviews were as well done.

Rated or hated? 😂  He liked them.

Rated or hated?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I rate the Voxativ AC1A, very low, = No points, So yeah, i hated them. 
Not sure about these Cube things. 
10 inch??
nah, I'll stay with my DLVX8. 

"Funny, I was talking about SPEC CORP the other day with the U.K. dealer friend of mine and he rated them."

Rated or hated?

Funny, I was talking about SPEC CORP the other day with the U.K. dealer friend of mine and he rated them. Thanks for the information.

Another data point in our continuing, vaguely perverse, search for solid state amps that play well with Nenuphars -- SPEC RSA-M3EX from Japan (the EX stands for export model). Jeff Day at Positive Feedback wrote a lengthy review back in 2015 with the backstory. Mr. Yazaki and his friends wanted to re-create the sound of the classic post-WW2 amplifiers.
https://positive-feedback.com/Issue78/spec_realsound.htm

Well, they succeeded. There was one for sale on Audio Mart back in August and have been enjoying it since. The amp isn't about that bump in the upper mid-bass; the focus is on tone. Instead of listening with my forebrain I find myself listening a little deeper. Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream.

Originally I paired the SPEC with my Boenicke W8 speakers as they appreciate Class D amplification as Sven himself uses. It made for an ambiance-rich pairing. Paired with my Nenuphars, the SPEC was in the upper echelon, keeping company with my SIT-2 and Vinnie Rossie integrated. While the SPEC is an integrated amp it has a preamp bypass switch so you can mix with your favorite preamp flavors. Currently I am listening using the excellent icOn passive pre.

So, if you get a chance to catch the RSA-M3 it is recommended.

Robert

Thanks David

It is live. Here it is.

Found Music:  https://foundmusic.info/

@khragon  I believe Scott is having his site rebuilt and is moving to another hosting service. If you would like his contact info, PM me.