Ah Magister, the side you picked cares not one wit for the larger world, America First is the rally cry.
1,008 responses
Mahgister, I am responding to your morality question from my own perspective since I recently made the choice to get a booster vaccination. Before I got it, I did some checking with regard to availability elsewhere in the world. Currently 45.4% of the world population has received at least one Covid vaccination. The US currently ranks 18th in vaccination percentage at 64%, behind countries such as Portugal, Uruguay, Brazil, Canada and much of Europe. Checking a map of distribution, I saw that the predominant region with low vaccination rate is most of Africa in single digits. The issue there is primarily one of distribution and storage due to the ultralow temperature storage requirements. The fact that Biden had just several days ago pledged to purchase and make half a billion additional doses available for the rest of the world made my decision easier on my conscience. |
Mass hysteria gents can come in the snap of ones finger, crushing down on all of us. Illness, food shortages…the list continues on and on But what are we without FAITH??? Faith in whatever you believe Faith in ones Stereo… I’ve been in this life before, and I still can’t seem to get things RIGHT And if we don’t kill ourselves first, that Star of ours surely will |
Alas! the reason why i dont want to discuss about the actual crisis is evident here... Precise questions are not at the front at all but 2 camps warring with each other, scapegoating one another.. For the Vaxx or against it? What a childish alternative...Really....What stupidity ... Reality is not simple like that... I will only repeat something, vaccination population dynamic is a science.... MASS vaccination of ALL groups, what so ever their past conditions, age,immunity history, and ESPECIALLY their country( poor countries were almost totally denied and dismissed of help for their at risk groups vaccination access) Mass indiscriminated vaccinations for the rich only is crime and not only stupid science.... Mass vaccination in rich countries is after Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier, among many others great doctors not paid by any lobbies, the most stupid and criminal mandate of all times.... Then reducing this debate to the alternative against or for vaccination is child level debate or programmed prejudice.... Anybody with a sound mind is in favor of a safe vaccination for the group of the population at risk or with the urgent need for it in ANY country rich and poor...All diseases are not equal either on this front, and equating them all for the only reason to justify one NEW experimental type of vaxx for the covid disease is plain stupidity...Sorry....Especially when treatments exist ....For those in doubt read out of the facebook or youtube censored media...Grab science with articles easy to find on the net.... Phone doctors who really treat covid patients....A clue: it is not doctor Fauci.... MASS MANDATED VACCINATION is not vaccination science it is politic not politic in the noble and pure sense but a tool for power greed and money.... Like in audio matter dont buy anything before thinking.... Dont upgrade or vaccinate before controlling your own embeddings system or assessing your own body status .... 😁😉☺😊 Who need the costly vaccines: a rich young teen american or a poor doctor working in madagascar? This question is a clue for a worldwide real efficient politic of vaccination... None other.... Ask yourself WHY this question is not at the forefront...Think.....But instead, a totally crazy madate for obligatory mass vaccination in america.... A clue: it is not a rightwing or communist question, save for idiots.... But a purely scientific one in population dynamic vacination science and epidemiology... |
@isochronism , "This was only ever about getting the mass population vaccinated, ie: to gain control of and to reset society. True" I would have considered this viewpoint as crazy some 17 months ago. Sad to say, nothing that I’ve witnessed since then indicates to me that it is. The blunt truth is that the population of the world is clearly growing at such rates that many believe will be difficult to sustain. It is not beyond the realms of conjecture to believe that some of these people have already taken actions to counter this. As for the role of big pharma and its seemingly endless greed, it’s no surprise to me that it will naturally never seek to cure. Rather more profitable for it to engender a lifelong dependency. All ages are welcome. The sheer numbers of children now routinely placed on medication should be considered a disgrace. It’s also rather facile to attempt to denounce all of those opposed to the concoction that the likes of Pfizer are venally seeking to politically mandate. I know of no one who would argue against all of the tried vaccines that have been in circulation for decades. Many of them have saved untold numbers of lives, as has the miracle drug penicillin without doubt. However this experimental messenger RNA jab is certainly not one of them. As @mahgister reminded us, "The problem is that there is alternative to the vaxx, many treatments at very low cost...." |
Honestly, I wish it were not so politicized, it is a killer… That said, the very beginning of this year I had gone through two straight months of Chemo, three treatments total. Granted during that time becoming vaccinated was just coming to the forefront for the masses. But in fact, not one staff member at C-care had been either, even at the complete END of my therapy. February My family is completely vaccinated but I on the other hand…that’d be a negative. I swear I caught that virus before any of this blew up… But I ate a tremendous amount of dirt growing up and still do. If fact, I recall even some dried dog food as well. No, really! |
I've been everywhere, and to tell the truth, if it wasn't for vaccinations, I'm not so sure what I would have caught. I have seen a few friends suffer the effects of malaria and it's not pleasant. Hepatitis outbreaks, or any water born sickness is bad enough. Add contact but also close proximity, like SARS, it add a new problem. I pick up my Grandson at his 1st grade class. They had to remind people to the point of calling the police about close proximity, mask, bringing children unmasked. They say outside you don't have to wear a mask UNLESS it is a close school environment. Gymnasium, Stadium or gathering points. It was funny one guy kept saying, he was talking on the phone and the person on the other end couldn't understand him, the reason his mask was off. LOL 400.00 ticket 4th or 5th warning. I haven't seen him sense. He demanded that ticket, no kidding.. Dressed in all black 35 years old, wore clothes that were Vet/looking, Navy I'd say.. You'd think an out of the country Vet would know.. Bullets are bad, DISEASE is worse.. Remember Polio, man alive, it was the plague when I was a kid.. Who would protest against a polio cure. Remember there was a LOT of weird experimenting going on for MANY years.. South America. Hmmm... I took every shot they had including for pneumonia, I opted for no shingle shot. The only one. I bet the flu season will be like last year, low body count, because of SARs requirements.. Mask, hand washing, 6 feet.. It works.. Always has.. NOW don't drink the water.. :-) Regards |
I will apologize in advance for the length of this, but the questions and issues are complex and cannot be addressed easily. I am also going to publicly apologize to CD318 as my remarks to him last night were out of line, and I regretted them almost as soon as I hit submit. Questions in a public forum need to always be welcome and never discouraged. This is mainly a response to a few individuals I have been debating with, so if you have no interest in reading it, please ignore it. At some level, I get the freedom issue. In the US, we have a long history of well defined human rights that are guaranteed to us as individuals. Free speech, religious choice, assembly, voting rights, bearing arms, etc. are all guaranteed to us by the Constitution, and cannot be taken away. We also enjoy a multitude of undefined additional freedoms every single day. Freedom to travel, what to wear, what to eat for breakfast, what kind of music to enjoy. There are limits here though. I have to wear shoes and a shirt to enter almost any public business, I cannot play my music so loud that I create a public nuisance. And maybe someday, the government will mandate that all corn production go into the production of ethanol fuel, so maybe I will not be able to have corn flakes for breakfast. Freedom is discussed every day by some, and often not even given a second thought by most. I contend that there are some freedoms that really matter, and some that matter not so much. Take away my right to vote, and I will be marching in the street. Take away my corn flakes by government mandate, and I will happily switch to raisin bran. Several times a week we see cell phone footage of an airline passenger getting into a fist fight with a flight attendant who asks the traveler to put on a mask. I am going to contend that mandates for mask wearing, social distancing, a reduced number of patrons in a restaurant or a bar are not the draconian infringements that some people claim, but well intentioned directives. The reduction or loss of business for restaurants, bars and mass attendance businesses was a serious side effect of the pandemic, and though the government tried to help with temporary monetary assistance programs for individuals and small businesses, all is not well. Jobs were lost that will likely not come back. Many/ most urban office buildings bars and restaurants still do not have full occupancy and many are still suffering. These businesses would have suffered an extreme loss of customer base in any event due to the pandemic itself. Personally, I would not have gone into a bar, restaurant, gym or concert last year at this time even if they were open. There is indirect evidence that these mandates were incredibly successful at limiting the speed of spread of Covid-19. It cannot be proven what the numbers of infections would have been without mandated behavior limits, but anecdotally, last season due to the mandates in place, the US cases of influenza resulting in death were reduced from about 30,000 during the 2019/20 flu season to just 646 during the 2020/21 flu season an incredible decrease of 98%. It is easy to argue that without the limits on our (lesser) freedoms, at least hundreds of thousands of additional lives in the US would have been lost due to uncontrolled spread of Covid-19. The governments of most of the industrialized countries of the world made similar calculated decisions to limit some freedoms in order to save lives. Exceedingly difficult decisions to make. Sweden was mentioned as an example of a successful alternative. The numbers show that Sweden experienced a similar sharp economic downturn during 2020 with their GDP declined 2.8%, compared to declines of 2.8%, 2.7%, and 0.8% for their most comparable neighboring countries, Finland, Denmark, and Norway respectively (Nordicstatistics.org), each of which had taken some lockdown measures. According to worldometers , the death rates per 100K in Sweden are about 3 fold to 5 fold higher and infection rates are also 2 to 3 fold higher than their Scandanavian counterparts. Was staying mostly open really worth the cost? You have more confidence in social behavior than I do. I think that for the most part, people are predominantly ill-informed about public health matters and when given a choice many would make selfish decisions in their own best interests that would have adverse effects on everyone else. Therefore, we have laws governing our behavior. It might be desirable to some to drive 130MPH, and to ignore stop signs. Governments enact rules and laws to protect commerce, personal property, and other people’s rights to travel safely. I don’t think that anyone really takes issue with those laws. Ah, but enforced vaccination is different people say. I remember requirements for vaccinations for measles, mumps, polio, and probably others that I do not recall, in order to attend grade school. Vaccinations have been required for some international travel for many years. I had to receive a Hepatitis B vaccination in order to keep my job. Is Covid-19 vaccination any different? Perhaps if I fear getting Covid, I should get myself vaccinated, mask up, stay home, and let other individuals be free do as they please. Maybe, also I need to drive a halftrack, and change my work and shopping hours to let others drive 130MPH and ignore stop signs if they feel like it.
In any case, the Covid vaccine is not actually forced into peoples arms. You are given a choice to get vaccinated or submit to weekly testing, or to get vaccinated or lose your job, or to get vaccinated or not be allowed to travel. Harsh rules, no question, but for the safety of society, maybe a reasonable approach.
I am not so sure that there are reasonable, effective, affordable treatment options. Chloroquine, and Ivermectin have been touted as treatment options, but when tested rigorously, they have come up short. Remdesivir shows promise, but has a typical treatment cost of over $3,000 and is useful only after you have been infected. Same story with convalescent plasma which has recently been shown to not be as effective as hoped. Monoclonal antibody treatment seems to be effective but comes with a price tag exceeding $2000 per infusion, and again only an option after you have been infected and likely have been publicly contagious for days.
I know there are R & D costs, distribution costs, etc associated with vaccine production, but as a consumer, receiving the vaccinations have cost me exactly $0. They are pre-emptive, work well, and have been shown to be safe in the arms of billions of people throughout the world. |
Aluminum foil hats for folks so hung up on their own self importance they forget, intentionally or not, their responsibility to society. There will come a time when a pandemic will hit with unimaginable consequences, think bubonic plague. At that instance these borons will be pushing their way to the front of the vaccine line whilst wrapped head to toe in cellophane or dynamat tape. |
Wow, as a newbie to this forum I'm gaining some insight from this discussion. The result, for me at least, allows a peek into who's audiophile opinion may be most valid across other subjects. It kind of breaks down into two distinct groups, one seems to values science while the other is content with listening to their own inner opinions. All worth a grain of salt though. |
The alternative is to not have a vaccine at all right now, and have millions more dead, while we wait in lockdown conditions for a better vaccine. No, the alternative is to allow an informed people to make decisions for themselves. Countries like Sweden did this and are back to normal with none of the horrible consequences to liberty and economic prosperity of countries imposing unscientific and tyrannical lockdowns. It is sickening the way some people take it upon themselves to dictate to the rest of us. You do not have the right, the power, and certainly not the knowledge. No one does. Nor do you even have the reasons. That is why we have attacks, insults and innuendo instead of open debate. |
Mahgister – From reading the forums, I first thought you were a bit different, but I have come to appreciate your posts, approach, and insight. Different can be good. Words to live by.Thank you for your kind words about me... I know that you are a man who can study.... then my last words were not an accusation but only an invitation.... My deepest respect.... |
These mRNA vaccines were developed quickly to target a very specific protein. With mutations occurring (it’s what viruses naturally do), very specific vaccines might show some limitations. The alternative is to not have a vaccine at all right now, and have millions more dead, while we wait in lockdown conditions for a better vaccine. I am certain that work is continuing to make improved Covid vaccines.The problem is not so much with the vaxx itself (even if there is adverse reactions and there are many and too much indeed) the problem is the MASS vaccination POLITIC IMPOSED and MANDATED in the middle of a pandemy (even if we could discuss this concept) and his rightfulness in the perspective of pure science... The problem is that there is alternative to the vaxx, many treatments at very low cost.... The problem is the subordination of the hippocratic oath for the money and the abdication to treat by many doctors BECAUSE of the doctor lost of their freedom to treat for a POLITIC of MASS vaccination,and treatment at hospital with a failed remdesivir, instead of a wiseful selected groups vaccination coupled with the many treatments which are working at low cost, in the middle of a pandemy... The problem is the real science behind epidemiology population dynamics which is in a complete contradiction with a POLITICAL MASS VACCINATION imposed indiscriminately on all population groups, at the cost also of the lost of all freedom for the doctor and also for his patient...read all that here very clearly explained: https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/ The problem is the censorship erasing all freedom , especially in science, by the GLOBAL control of information.... I will not go further.... If you dont know that already.... Please study.... |
Millercarbon _ I willfully admitted that I made an assumption in my earlier reply, but the post by coys21 makes it clear that my assumption was correct and that your youtube post was not. Thanks coy21. The Victoria Minister of Health misspoke one of the the many numbers he stated. This is the classic situation where we can present the truth for you, but we cannot comprehend it for you. You are beginning to remind me of a former co-worker who was often described as “always certain, seldom right”. BTW, I am not even going to look at your recent youtube link. If you have something to say, please have the courage and courtesy to say it directly.
For CD318 - I just had a booster and feel fine about it. Fauci never stated that vaccine efficacy was now at 0%. Breakthrough cases have been discussed ad nauseum in the media – you just need to read a bit more. I do suspect that additional vaccinations against Covid -19 will be recommended in the future, just as influenza vaccines are recommended every single year. You really need to read a lot more. No one that has not been infected or vaccinated has any “natural immunity” to Covid-19. If you have been infected, there is no way to determine that your immunity is “dozens of times” more effective than vaccination. Both degrade over time. Herd immunity to the original Covid-19 alpha variant was originally estimated to be at about 70% or so total immunity. We might be approaching that number with infections and vaccinations combined, but Delta changed everything with regard to numerical estimates of herd immunity, so it is likely now about 90 or 95% ? not sure. We will likely never approach that number thanks to some of those involved in this conversation. Do you read anything at all? 99% of people are not anywhere near safe from the effects of this virus. You must be from another planet. Adverse effects from vaccinations predominantly are immunological in nature and typically occur very early, days, weeks, not years later. Do you know what the long term effects are of the hot dog you had for lunch? How long term? Very recent studies show that about 36 minutes of lifetime is lost for each hot dog you have ever eaten. I've had a few. As published in many major medical journals, the virus was identified, isolated, sequenced, replication rates studied, and cell culture characteristics were documented back in March of LAST year. Do you even know how to read or use Google?
Mahgister – From reading the forums, I first thought you were a bit different, but I have come to appreciate your posts, approach, and insight. Different can be good. Words to live by. I checked your links and though the Flemmingmethod post may have some pertinent information, there is just too much info to digest quickly from the link you provided. I will try to check it out later. Geert Vanden Bossche seems to have some credibility. Vaccine leakage is really more a characteristic of a mutating virus, and doesn’t imply that there is a problem with the vaccine. These mRNA vaccines were developed quickly to target a very specific protein. With mutations occurring (it’s what viruses naturally do), very specific vaccines might show some limitations. The alternative is to not have a vaccine at all right now, and have millions more dead, while we wait in lockdown conditions for a better vaccine. I am certain that work is continuing to make improved Covid vaccines. |
This "V" was put out there on purpose. There is an Agenda. It was never worse than a Flu. Masks very never necessary. All illness numbers were highly exaggerated. Now, hospital illness attendance numbers and deaths (which are actually vaccine injuries) are played way down. This is just the raw truth. Anyone may simply believe this or not. To quote cd318: I wish you well, I really do. |
http://www.seekfind.net/Logical_Fallacy_of_Innuendo.html The logical fallacy of innuendo, or implication, occurs when a conclusion is suggested to be true without directly stating the point. This is a fallacy because it is a deceptive tactic. Innuendo is generally used as a substitute for evidence. In other words, the innuendo technique is used as the only proof for a claim. It is often more persuasive than a straightforward statement because a clear statement is easier to evaluate for logical fallacies, to realize that a claim (implied) has no basis, no proof. Note that this is different from simply being unclear. What makes this a fallacy is that there is no evidence and the use of innuendo is a mechanism to hide the fact that there is no real evidence. |
Was talking the other day with a seemingly sensible person about coming over to hear my system when out of the blue he asked if I was vaccinated. As my wife said, "If he is then why does he care if you are?" But we cannot go there without falling spinning and reeling into the pretzel logic of the indoctrinated. "I see dead people." Brilliant. |
@jond,Thanks i will not need to post anything more about the actual crisis....Too much controversies .... I prefer to read silently some specialist....Like the 2 scientists i just cited below.... There are more than these 2.... But between Fauci and these 2 guys my choice is very simple to make....😁 Fauci is NOT a scientist anymore if he was one longtime ago with the like of the infamous Bob Gallo, he is an omnipotent CZAR bureaucrat with the greatest health research budget on earth and all the power that go with it, who himself works for who ? and with who? for what goal ? Fill the blank for the answer the way you feel right....But search before answering...It takes me 3 months few hours each day before deciding to take the vaxx or not...Way less time than figuring acoustic for my small room with great success and NO cost....But people dont like reading analysis they prefer to buy ready made costly upgrade in audio or " ready made" news... cd318 ,You are then generally right for me in your post , save for the fact that the virus was already isolated and already analysed tough.... Many facts about that are here below among other possible true scientists choice.... https://www.flemingmethod.com/documentation https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/ |
@jond, "I don’t just "believe what I’m told" I read incessantly and do research the difference being I research facts and not crackpot conspiracy theories. This has led me to be vaccinated." I hope its working for you, but just for the record, can I ask just how protected you now feel? Up to the 95% as originally promised by the likes of Fauci and others? Or is it now closer to 0% as indicated by the good doctor himself and innumerable infections of the double vaccinated? Next question, ’To booster jab or not to booster jab’? What thereafter? More boosters? Did you even consider you may already have natural immunity from antibodies? Something dozens of times more effective that some experimental jab. Besides, wasn’t herd immunity passed some time ago? What about the fact most people are well over 99% safe from this man made weapon? Or the fact that children are unnecessarily dying from the vaccines? Nevermind the fact that long term effects of this vaccine are completely unknown. [Not even Pfizer can help you out with that - remember they have legal protection from any damages caused by their vaccine. You might want to think about that too.] Perhaps you might want to consider just where you got the information upon which you made your decision. It doesn’t hurt to look a bit deeper sometimes, does it? Finally, you may want to ask why this ’virus’ still hasn’t been isolated, well over a year after it was promised that it would be? Conspiracy theories are often derided just as conspiracy theories, but occasionally when vast sums of money are involved, they might be more than that, mightn’t they? I wish you well, I really do. |
For the second time (that I've noticed) a certain poster here has jumped on and promoted some incorrect data based on the utterings of a misspoken health official in Australia (are the Facebook bots in Australia particularly strong?). For anyone interested in a slightly different version of the truth: https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/covid-19-chief-health-officer-update "Of the COVID-19 cases in hospital yesterday, 76 per cent were unvaccinated, 19 per cent were partially vaccinated and five per cent were fully vaccinated." Please folks, consider your sources. |
Just 3 weeks ago, in a September 6th 2021 interview for TheAge, a Victoria Aus. news site had a story with a headline “Almost all COVID-19 patients in Victorian hospitals are unvaccinated: Foley” a quote from Health Minister Martin Foley who is speaking in your youtube video. “Ninety-two people are in hospital as a result of infections driven by the Delta coronavirus variant but only one of the cases in the state’s hospital system on Sunday was fully vaccinated.” A copied and pasted quote from the story. I find it very difficult to believe that the Covid infection demographics have changed so dramatically in 3 weeks. It seems more likely that he misspoke when mentioning the 78 as a percentage rather than 78 of the 375 in hospital are vaccinated. I don’t have access to the raw numbers, but of the numbers he mentioned in the video (375 in hospital, 81 in icu, 61 on vent), “78% were vaccinated” is the only number mentioned as a percentage, likely in error. It would be just like a right wing youtuber to capitalize on a misstatement like this for clicks. I’ll take the written statements as fact. |
Australian government official spreading "misleading" information. https://youtu.be/TFtlK6fuVno?t=18 So 95% vaccinated, only 5% not vaccinated. I'm sure the indoctrinated have an alternative perception. Otherwise known as being deluded. |
On the prayer call today: Expectant Mother, child is breach , no room at the Inn, aka hospital Seattle because selfish unvaccinated are clogging up system , ( as Springsteen sang “ busing in trouble from outa state “… ) best estimate of available bed is 11 days past her due date, so we know how this movie plays out: c section in ER…. Funny how the right to life crown really isn’t of course I know her name |
MC, You seem to have a death wish for your fellow forumites. You continually post anti vaccine links, even though it is clear to any rational, free thinking individual that the Covid-19 vaccines are safe and effective. The VAERS site mentioned in your youtube link is from a US Health and Human Services group that compiles all adverse events reported to it following any and all vaccinations. There have been a lot of vaccinations in 2021 which is reflected by an increase in reports. The fact that the Covid-19 vaccines are in the news daily has undoubtedly caused an increase in reported events also. Like me, if you get a slightly sore arm following a vaccination, you are free to report it as an adverse event. Minor sniffles and a headache like I typically get from the temporary inflammation following a flu vaccination, go ahead and report it. Temporary fast heartbeat, temporary slow heartbeat, let em know. Dizziness, confusion, changes in eyesight or hearing, tell them. They are obligated to include any and all reports in their summary reports.
But, be aware that the VAERS site itself states that a causal relationship between the adverse event and the vaccination cannot be established by the data. They continue “Some adverse events might be caused by vaccination and others might be coincidental and not related to vaccination. Just because an adverse event happened after a person received a vaccine does not mean the vaccine caused the adverse event“. There is not a control group to compare the data with, which makes most of the data data pretty much meaningless, unless a specific adverse event shows up that is unusually high compared to the unvaccinated and can be explored further. As of August 13, 2021 the VAERS system had documented 497 cases of myocarditis and about 100 cases of Guillain Barre Syndrome. These have been studied in greater detail and they do in fact seem to be vaccine related. Out of 200 million vaccinated, the incidence of these events is miniscule and is dwarfed by the number of lives saved by the vaccines. Over the summer, YaleNews reported that the estimated number of lives saved by the Covid-19 vaccines approaches 279,000 as well as 1.25 million hospitalizations prevented.
So, I’ve got to ask you what on earth is your motivation to mislead people ? I am really curious about this. |
| Post removed |
