Considering the New Tekton Design Encores? AND Owners Group - Experiences/Questions

Ok good to hear.  Is the soundstage and imaging better now?   That will always be different than others but elements of the recording/performers should occupy specific locations in the soundstage with most decent quality recordings.  
Do  good mono recordings  have a solid focus in middle of rear wall?   That is usually a good indicator things are set up well for proper imaging and soundstage with Ohms. 

That device sounds like it provides a lot of flexibility matching speakers to room. 
Having had an audition of double impacts safe to say Tekton will be a different beast. 
Cheers!

mapman,
Pre is W4S. All is working well now that I have the 5000s located properly with the help of Ohm tech.

Thanks for your response. Yeah, room is limiting with left wall solid, right with 4-ft archway. Rear is mostly open which helps. I had a bit of boomy bass so installed a DSpeaker Antimode which takes care of that pretty well. SQ is good for now, but I still want to go to Encores.

jcarcopo,
"Thank you" doesn't do justice to your detailed (and much appreciated) response!. You have answered my questions very well indeed. My only concern left is... what about bass? As I understand it, that is a weakness of SETs. That'll be my own little first-world problem to solve. Never heard an SET - ever.
As of now, $24k and up is out of my league.

Jcarcopo,
I realize that bi-amping is fairly popular but I believe that your perspective as it relates to the Encore is very rational. It would seem that these speakers don’t need it and are better off with a single high quality amplifier.
Charles

Hi jcarcopo, 
Thanks for the trip down memory lane as I can appreciate it thoroughly.  You discovered SETs earlier in life than I.  I went through the solid state amplifiers then tube push pull route for a number of years. My introduction to SET amplification happened about 11 years ago.  My recognition of their superb attributes mirrors your accurate  description.  It was quite definitive and unmistakable. Jcarcopo, there's been no looking back 😊. 
Charles 

Coot,

fwiw, as I mentioned on the other thread, if you run a SS or Class D amp with only 10k input impedance for bass in particular, That will not match well with most tube pre-amps. That impedance issue will create distortion and result in poor bass most likely.

Can you tell me what pre-amp you use? That would help settle that.

If currently you use tube pre-amp with your 10k input impedance Class D amps, that might well account for any bass issues with your Ohm 5000s ( or any other speakers driven similarly for that matter) which should be able to deliver as much clean bass as desired, though since driver is downward firing you might not feel as much slam with Ohm Walsh in the bass as others with bass drivers firing towards your listening position. 

If you have an impedance mismatch from Pre amp to amp, I would address that first otherwise any speaker change may make little difference.

Also I recall your room was odd shaped with one speaker closer to side wall than other. The adjustments on the 5000s should be just what the doctor ordered to tame bass as needed. It could be harder to get other speakers to work well there unless you have some other way of tuning left versus right speaker specifically as needed.

@coot Thanks for the kind words. I’ve never heard the Moabs, but I like to think to the Encores are special and believe Eric would mirror that sentiment as well.

Regarding bi-amping: I’m not a fan of it, it’s really unnecessary with the Encores. Whether 60wpc or 15wpc I still achieve at least 94db peaks at 10ft away with zero compression and no soft clipping. That being said usually if you’re going to do it, the amps typically are identical, and mixing topologies like SET and SS are not going to have remotely similiar gain structures or sound signatures. Can you gain match the amps and make it work with an active crossover or passive volume controls, yes, but should you? I wouldn’t. That being said SETs excel at glorious midrange and highs and give up a bit of authority in the bass (sometimes) due to a lack of feedback and damping (there are pros and cons to this approach)
, so if you’re going to do it and with non-identitcal/dissimilar signature topology amplifiers (which I wouldn’t recommend), at least keep the SET on the mids and highs, and keep the ss on the bass where feedback and damping belongs. If properly gain matched it will sound only disjointed. WHY? Well, I’m glad you didn’t ask 😁, but I’ll tell you why. I heard a $10k speaker I pined for years ago called a DB99 by Von Schweikert. It was a speaker designed for SET amplifiers and came powered with its own SS amplifier to handle the bass region fed by the output signal of your own SET amp. The idea being the SET amp could feed its flavored signal to the ss amp and therefore minimize the disjointed disconnect between the way a SET sounds and ss sounds while allowing the SET to handle only the high and mid frequencies . It sounded awful. I hated it. I tweaked the gain settings on the ss amp all night and never got that thing to sound coherent and right.

Furthermore, the Encores come bi-wireable, not bi-ampable, but don’t let that stop you from paying Eric to make them biampable, anything is possible. Surely that is in his capabilities.

I’ve been using SET amplification for over 20 years. When I was about 25 years old I had access to a bunch of solid-state and tube amps to audition over many months at a high end boutique in CA I helped out. After hearing many different amplifiers I took an Art Audio Diavolo SET Tube Amplifier home for a weekend and enjoyed it a lot, but I couldn’t afford it anyway so I brought it back to the store. A month of torment goes by and I’m thinking out of everything I had heard that Diavolo was the only thing that had a purity in the midrange and a 3d holographic nature that nothing else I had heard possessed. I meekishly asked the owner one day about it. He explained to me why it sounded the way it did. (Simplest topology, pure class A, no phase-splitter/zero cross-over distortion, pleasant 2nd/3rd order harmonic distortion characteristics that went along with the musical signal, etc) I had just moved to my new studio and I wanted to try it one more time before committing to it and he of course said "sure". It sounded even more glorious in my new place. Me and a friend were both picking our jaws off the floor it sounded so good. The next day I asked the owner "how much?". He sold it to me for $2500, it retailed for $6999. I literally was prepared to pay double that price, but I acted very nonchalant and paid him enthusiasticly. I’ve owned 2 versions of the Diavolo, and now I own the Allnic A6000s SETS. All I know is SETs, and I’ve never heard anything at ANY show or ANY store or ANY fellow audiophile’s house to make me think of switching to ss or pp tube equipment.

Sorry for the long-winded trip down memory lane. So to recap. I’m firmly in the buy, beg, or borrow, but get a SET amp camp and no, a push-pull tube amp, even in SE MODE isn’t the same thing. 😁

Hope this helps you out. Now go biamp some Encores! 😉

@jcarcopo

I greatly appreciate your contributions to this forum! For a long time I planned to order Moabs, but now I think Encores might be a better fit -- bit smaller physically yet smoother musically(?). Music is primarily classical. I plan to bi-amp with tubes on top and ss bottom. 

My question is about tubes: Is there much difference between set and push-pull for orchestra string quality? I'm thinking push-pull would have more power for mids, no? 

Thanks for comments.

Thanks for the suggestions.  I asked Eric for a recommendation for amps, and he also recommended Parasound.  Looking at their amp line, I don't think I'd get enough of a bump-up from their lower priced amps relative to my Yamaha--I think I'd have to move up to something like the JC5 to get a significant bump up and that's more than I want to spend right now.
I'm more of a videophile than an audiophile--I have an 11.2.4 projector home theater in the basement--the Tekton Seas Pendragon are going to replace the mains on the home theater system once Eric builds me a center channel speaker that matches the Seas Pendragons, which he's going to do and send me together with the Encores.  I might also later buy one of the Tekton subs, although mysteriously they get very little press and reviews.

The Encores are going into my listening/computer room, but it is a multi-use set-up for listening to music, watching TV on a 77 inch OLED, and my son's gaming.  I do have a nice but very overpriced DAC (the Chord Dave) in this set-up so music quality could be great.  I am curious about tube amps, but given the amount of use, replacing the tubes will probably be more frequent and headache-inducing than I'd want, even if I convinced myself to take the plunge on the initial start-up cost.
Thanks for starting this thread--it certainly contributed to my taking the plunge on the Encores.

@charles1dad You could put me on a feeding tube and build a toilet into my recliner and I'd have little reason leave my new man cave, but I'm already clocking entirely too many hours listening to music as it is.  With the quarantine in place/covid mess and my pre-existing health issues I'm starting to become so much of a hermit that I'm may very well be turning into an agoraphobe by the time this pandemic is over. 😁

@jsoku Congratulations on going with the new Encores! I love mine very much.  They are my forever speaker.

Regarding powering them I'm probably not going to be much help.  I run source direct from my Matrix Audio Sabre X Pro MQA DAC and power mine currently with a pair of 15wpc Allnic A6000 Quad Parallel 300bxls SET Tube Monoblocks.  The Encores are relatively high sensitivity at 96db albeit at a 4ohm load, but as you can see in my case, it take very little power to drive them to 94db peaks in my 20x13x8 room from my listening position 10ft away. 
I'm very biased towards to amps for music and SET topology tube amps in particular because of their 3D holographic and palpable portrayal of vocal and string/wind instruments as well as incredible sound staging.
  You can get pretty close with solid-state using a Pass Labs XA25 I'm told, but that over $5k.   

Eric pairs his speakers with Parasound amplifiers at the shows and they always get high marks for the pairing, but again they are outside your budget, unless you possibly find them used.
 
You could go with an amp that utilizes NCORE Class D modules offered by numerous manufacturers.  Some have better sounding input buffer boards, like Nord or Apollo Audio which even allow you to choose the overall tone you want by choosing the opamp chip to your liking.  Best bang for your buck might be a no frills ncore design.  If you Google ncore amplifiers you will get dozens of results. I know theirs a brand that's like $700, but their name eludes me at the moment. 
I prefer NCore Class D to most Class A/B amplifiers.  They tend to be very powerful and very low in distortion, but also are fairly smooth sounding. They do transients well too. 

Again, for music though. Imho, nothing beats a good SET Tube Amplifier or a Class A solid-state amp like the pass labs XA25.

Are you doing full surround sound?  If not, maybe ditch the receiver and look at the 2 channel anthem integrated with room correction. My friend loves his a lot.  Also, that receiver is your weak link. The dacs in most midfi receivers are quite awful sounding and have poor measurements to back that up.  It used to not be that way, but they really have gone down hill over the years. 

Hope this helps you some. Glwys

I just ordered a pair of the Encores.  I've owned a pair of the Tekton Seas Pendragons since 2013 and love them but was getting the upgrade bug so I called Eric to ask about the Encores and Moabs.  Eric thought if I liked the full sound of the Seas Pendragons, the Encores would be a better fit than the Moabs for me.
I'm currently using a Yamaha home theater receiver for the Seas Pendragons because many of the audio sources I am amplifying are HDMI audio.  I may want to use the Yamaha as a preamp and feed into a two channel power amplifier.  Any suggestons for a stereo power amplifier that would be a good fit for the Encores?  I wouldn't want to spend more than $2K for a power amp.

Klh007, thanks for the info.  Great to see quality drivers are used.  It all helps in justifying the jump from the Moabs to the Encores.  

@chenzobat, The woofer in the Encores is a pricy one from SB Acoustics.

@chenzobat Thanks a lot! I'm glad it has been helpful. It means a lot to me. 

@klh007 , I have noticed the difference in the woofer surrounds between the Encores and the Moabs...closely looking at pics. Was thinking that it had a more refined driver.  Do you currently own the Encores?  Appreciate the description.  Certainly looking for everything you described.

@gimmeroc, thanks for the comparison with the Wilsons.  I never considered the Be upgrade for the main tweeter...will look into it.  I share the same musical tastes and occasionally listen to opera.

Currently I have Focal 936 Arias, a BAT VK-75SE amp and just upgraded to the BAT VK-33SE preamp.  The Focals are very good... mids are well defined and clean however they don't present the sound stage that I'm looking for.  And at times the speaker can be fatiguing.  However, the system is setup in a finished basement in need of room treatment.  

@jcarcopo, thanks for this forum!!  It is my best source of information on the Encores.

@gimmeroc Thanks for sharing your preliminary thoughts about your experience with the Encores compared to the Wilson's.  I'm glad to hear the Encores are an improvement over the Yvettes. 

 I love my Encores very much and consider them my forever speaker.  I find their superb coherence lends to their great imaging, soundstage, and revealing inner detail.  I just moved my entire system to a bigger dedicated room and I can't wait to get my 18 ATS acoustic sound treatments in about a week to tame the slap echo by reducing the decay.

It sounds good now, but soon they should sound spectacular.

Again, thanks for sharing. 

I received a pair of Encores with a Be upgrade for the main tweeter about 6 weeks ago. I had a job change after they were ordered (more work, less money, but I am grateful to be working) so I have not had the time or energy to do a proper A/B versus a pair of Wilson Yvettes.  My preliminary review is that they present a taller and better defined soundstage than the Wilsons.  I listen primarily to classic rock and classical, and the bass response for rock is just better in the Tektons.  My other quick observation is that the Tekton's are better when I am not sitting in the primary listening position.
I do not have a wife, so the "big boxy look" does not matter. I got the high gloss Rosso Folgore upgrade and I think they look great

chenzobat, I lived with Moabs for 8 months, loved them! Eric told me the Encores are a little more polished, maybe checking a few more audiophile boxes. Above 300 Hz they should be very similar, adding those 7" mid-bass couplers and the 11" woofers will make the Encores quicker and more able to differentiate bass lines while still having enough weight, impact, and low bass extension. The Moab's slight weakness was their definition in the bass, not as quick as Double Impacts or DI SEs, although much lower extension and power. The woofers in the Encore have a different surround and look very different from the custom Eminence units in the Moabs? I'm led to believe the Encores are the sweet spot in Eric's lineup, the Moabs being the very best value in speakerland!

I spoke to Eric briefly last week...he was jammed at the time.  Asked him about the tweeter selection on the Encore vs the DI SE.  He spoke very highly of the Encore but didn't have time for an explanation.  Also was looking for the difference between the Encore and the Moab.  The Encore has the two 7" mid-bass drivers and smaller woofers.  Thinking the overall expense of the drivers must be what's driving the $2500 price difference.  I'll try to call him again.  Thoughts?

chenzobat, Straight from Eric the Encores weigh 145 lbs. Perhaps the 175 figure is with packing or an error.

Well, I was told 175lbs. I can’t easily weigh them as I don’t own a scale, but I would simply contact Karma or Eric and ask the question. Maybe Eric altered the design to make them more affordable. As I recall they originally were $9000 with gloss finish, at the time. $9200 with grills. At times they are on sale for as low as $7k for non-gloss finishes. Great speaker!
A FOREVER SPEAKER. 

Hello all...I'm new to the group.  Was very interested in the Encores.  Did notice the discrepancy between the 145 lbs on the Tekton Design website and the 175 lbs that others quote.  Are there reviews other than stereotimes?  Would be interested in seeing some measurements.  Thanks!

Has anyone noticed that the weight of the Encore published by Tekton has dropped from 175lbs to 145lbs?  Thirty pounds per speaker is an enormous amount. Where did all of that weight go?  

Hi everyone, mint condition Encores for sale for anyone interested.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9ff76-tekton-design-encore-full-range

@smodtactical - In no particular order:

JBL Everestx4 Stacked - (Excellent sounding system a friend owns, but I can’t afford even a pair though, and way too big for my room)

JBL K2 - (Excellent sounding system, my friend owns, but I can’t afford them either and too big)

Klipsch RF-7II (Horns that have a distinct/harsh rising upper midrange to highs, very hard to eq out)

Vonschweikert VR10, VR5, VR2, VR4JR (Back in the day they were great and very holographic, hard to drive with SET amplifiers)

Dali Helicon & Euphonia (Not forward sounding, way too relaxed, soft, and hard to drive with SET amplifiers)

Analysis Audio Omega Ribbon/Planar Magnetics (Hard to place, too big, hard to drive, and they sounding pretty good on some music)

Meadowlark (Nice sounding transmission lined speakers, no where near the dynamics of the Encores, inefficient design)

Cabasse (Yuk, horrible, NO!)

Legacy (Lovely sounding, just not on my radar anymore)

Orangutans (Very beautiful speakers, Lacking in the midrange and dynamics for me, although a nice higher efficiency design 96db, overpriced though IMHO)

B&W (Too harsh, beamy highs, fatiguing, and incoherent sounding- Maybe with McIntosh gear and the treble turned down.)

Vandersteen 2C & 3A (Nice background speaker, elevator music speaker, unoffensive, but not very dynamic)

Harbeth 40.1 (Beautiful sounding speaker, hard to drive with low wattage tube amps)

ZU Droids (No way would I own them, they are the worst measuring and sounding speaker on planet earth)


  There are many more that I’ve Auditioned, used to sell, or owned, but they aren’t very memorable.

@jcarcopo can you mention other speakers you've heard that the encore compares favorably to? I really appreciate your insights but comparisons with actual models makes things very concrete to me.

Thanks!

@stephenurquhart there's no charge to pick any color you want. The high gloss is the up charge.  I've owned both double impacts in a flat finish and Encores in high gloss.  High gloss is worth it to me. 

So $1,000 extra for high gloss and how much extra for a custom color?  Do you know what any of the colors look like without the high gloss?  Would they be like a flat finish?Thanks,Steve

@stephenurquhart Yes it's a custom color.  Eric will paint your Encores any automotive or specialty color you chose.  The high gloss finish is extra labor intensive and does normally cost $1000 more lately.  I'm not sure what current pricing is but expect to pay around $9000 or even a bit more.  Ask Eric for current pricing. 

jcarcopo, what is Spanish Tile?  Is it a custom color?  Did it cost extra to get that color?Thanks,Steve

I'm sure I would too. I was drooling when I read Terry London's review.

@roxy54 Thanks buddy!  I really love these speakers! 

@mijostyn Just how many Fs do you think I could care to count about your ignorant opinion?  Zero, zilch, none.  BTW the tweeters are $100 a piece and, because you're slow, that's $3k in tweeters alone which is hardly cheap considering its an $8500 speaker which doesn't account for the $200 French midbass drivers or woofers or cabinet or finish. They actual sound sublime, but you'll never know since you already made up your mind before listening to them and don't understand the array's design or know their sonic attributes from any practical experience. 

@stephenurquhart My Encores are finished in Spanish Tile high gloss.  Sorry for the delay, I have been getting over the flu.

How many cheap drivers can you shove in one cabinet? Then how many cheap drivers can you shove in a cabinet without rhyme or reason?  

What color are your speakers, red?  Did you get the glossy finish?Stephen Urquhart

Jcarcopo,
 That is wonderful news and I am really happy for your fantastic results. You are obviously enjoying magnificent  sound quality and listening experiences in your home. I am very happy for you. 
 I doubt that you will have any problem selling the Lyngdorf.
 Charles 

@charles1dad The Allnic monoblocks drive the Encores much better and that 50 extra watts of SET power allows me to play larger pieces of music with ease at higher volume levels all while maintaining its composure. Every nuance of the music is preserved at higher volumes. The Allnics delineate every instrument and voices with ease, they have incredible depth of field, and a haunting sound that startles me emotionally with greater dynamics both micro and macro. The bass is controlled and effortless now, whereas it was struggling on the Diavolo at higher volumes. The vocals are breathtakingly beautiful! The Lyngdorf is no slouch, but it doesn’t do what a SETs does in spades; make music sound real and emotionally engaging. I now do room correction directly in ROON DSP/EQ and don’t need the Lyngdorf for RoomPerfect anymore. The Lyngdorf was trying to add +10db of gain in a feeble attempt to quell a 100hz suck-out in my room. This put huge demands on the tube amplifier and even the Lyngdorf’s internal amplifier which would occasionally clip on certain bass heavy notes. There’s no way to eq a major suck-out in a room with EQ. Why the Lyngdorf tries to throw that much gain at the problem is beyond me IMHO and there’s no way to curtail it in the Lyngdorf. So the Lyngdorf goes up for sale next week. I put these Allnics into a class next to LAMM SETs. They do everything right, they are very well made, and they dig deep into the music to tickle your ears with excellent detail retrieval. I’ve been listening for 10 hours straight. I took a nap and woke up at 4am and started playing again this morning. I can’t get enough!

PS: I have an Ayon Audio Stealth DAC Tube/Pre coming today to replace the Lyngdorf. 

Hi Jcarcopo,
That is surprising and unexpected news from you. I know how thrilled you were with the performance of your Lyngdorf. What does the Allnic do better (or different) ? Do you plan on keeping both? Congratulations as I am pretty certain that this Allnic PSET sounds quite wonderful driving your Encores.
Charles

@charles1dad I switched back to tubes! I picked up some Allnic A6000 pse quad parallel 300bxls 60 wpc SET Tube Monoblocks from Audiogon! I absolutely love them with my Encores. Having so power really allows the Encores to perform their best! 

Thanks 😃 @shkong78

Dear OP

Congratulation on getting  50wpc 6C33C PSET Monoblocks.

I was also tempted to participate in the auction but I have two excellent SET amp so I may not need one more.

It will be fun to drive Encore with 50W SET amp.

Thomas

@latebloomer I'm terribly sorry for not replying.  I must have unfollowed my own thread by mistake. LOL -  I currently only use the Lyngdorf and it's a very good sonic match with the Encores.  It's not analytical sounding at all.  Very neutral, slightly warm sounding like a very clean tube amp.  No harshness or grain whatsoever. I sold my Art Audio Diavolo SET amp if that tells you anything.  Mostly because I felt with room correction engaged 8wpc wasn't enough to handle 10db of compensation at 100hz due to a persistent (I tried moving the speakers to no avail) bass suck out in my room.  However, I have recently purchased some 50wpc 6C33C PSET Monoblocks from Lansing Audio yesterday and hope the added wattage can give me the holographic and palpable sound that SET amps are known for while allowing to still use the Room Perfect Room Correction to clean up the 40hz bass mode in my room which when not attenuated for creates a bit of congestion obscuring the midrange. 

Any updates on Encores/Lyngdorf/Tube amps after further breaking-in and deep-listening sessions? ***heavy breathing***:)

@iwasgointo Maybe you need the Ulfberhts? They feature dual 12" woofers vs the dual 11" woofers in the Encores, al beit it's a much taller, wider, and more expensive speaker.  I prefer the more slender and slightly less tall asthetics of the Encores in my room and find the bass to be very sastisfying. I agree the major gain to be had with the Encores is the MTM Array handling from 300hz to 20khz which makes them very beautiful, coherant, transparent, and electro-static like in the midrange and highs which are also very smooth and not harsh or bright at all. 

@iwasgointo, I owned Legacy Focus 20/20s for a while, very good speaker. I'm not sure the Encore can give you more bass impact but they might go lower? With 14 tweeters crossing over at 300Hz I think you'll get more midrange and vocal detail and transparency vs the Focus. They both play loud w/o strain, but the Encores might be even more dynamically alive than the Focus. The Encores are more efficient allowing for more choices in low powered tube or SS amps. Why not call Eric and see if he has experience with Focus speakers, he could give you some valuable insight?

I've got the upgrade bug, but I wonder if this speaker will be better than what I already have? I have a pair of Legacy Focus which was a highly regarded speaker when I bought it. The driver compliment is: 3...12" woofers, 2...6.5" kevlar mid-woofers, 1...1" soft dome tweeter and 1...4" ribbon tweeter. They are fairly large at 55" tall and weigh about 175 lbs each.

They are now 20 years old and still sound wonderfully transparent along with strong tight bass. However, I wonder if the Encore could offer even more transparency and equal bass power? 

My listening room is in the basement with a concrete floor and measures 20'x20' with a ceiling height of 6' 6".