BTW, I am also open to suggestion on what phono preamp to mate with the CSLS. Since I only listen to vinyl 20% of my time, I can’t justify to buy the Coincident phono pre. I feel $1500 used would be my budget. And maybe a SS phono will match well with the CSLS, I feel.
Coincident Statement Line Stage vs Jadis JP80MC vs EAR 868PL vs Aesthetic Janus
I had another thread asking about different preamps. I then bought Coincident Statement Line Stage and ModWright LS100. Both of them are very good in its own right. The CSLS is very transparent and engaging. The Modwright has very good tone. After debating for a long time, I finally sold the Modwright. But that tone can’t leave my head. While the CSLS sounds excellent in my system right now, I always wonder if there is one preamp in the world that has quality of both CSLS and Modwright LS100, and that would be prefect.
After I sold the Modwright, I upgraded to better cables and power cords. I also upgraded to the Psvane WE101D, but unfortunately, one of the tube turns white in less than a month, and I am in the process of getting warranty replacement. I also upgraded to APL DAC. I feel I maximized what I can do trying to get the tone, but it is still not quite there yet, but very close to what I want. Therefore, I am trying to see what other options I have. Another challenge is that I listen to vinyl 20% of the time, and I feel my current MC phono preamp doesn’t match with the CSLS. So, instead of trying another phono preamp, I am wondering if I will get better synergy to find a preamp that also have a good MC phono built in. But I am opened to suggestion that doesn’t have phono.
I am interested in the following:
1) EAR Yoshino 868PL
2) Aesthetix Janus
3) Jadis JP80MC
Does any of these has the same level of transparency and as engaging as the CSLS, and on top of that, have the tonal density of Modwright Ls100?
thanks in advance.
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Shame on you! At this level, stick a crowbar in your wallet and pony up for a good separate phono pre. As for a pre, I think you’d do well to look into a Don Sachs SP14 preamp, and of it’s me I’d go for a used VMPS phono pre. I think that’d be a killer combo at a total killer price. You can talk to Don about what sound you’re looking for and he can point you to the tubes to get you there. Anyhoo, that’s what I’d do FWIW, and best of luck. |
I have Statement upgraded to MkII and optional Amtrans rotary selector. I don't know if you have MkII upgrade but the better quality volume transformers, NIchicon FG and muse caps add a bit more musical tone, Amtrans gives more precise imaging, sound staging. I also diy change to Takman carbon film resistors and Audio Note Seiryu capacitors in signal path recently, another slight uptick in more natural timbre. Finally, try the Linlai Elite solid plate 101, while I like the WE101, the Elite has a bit more natural timbre, resolving powers and transparency. I too had a WE go bad some months ago, same issue, this condition caused by leak, vacuum lost. In may case I felt slight movement where base meets glass, leak from here? So, at this point, already excellent piece only made better. If it were me, I'd get the Coincident phono stage, but I hear you on the expenditure for that amount of listening. Actually, I'm in exact same boat as you, perhaps 10% phono, rest streaming. I too am looking to upgrade my phono setup, including cartridge and perhaps phono stage after. I'm using Modwright SWP 9.0SE at present, planning on modding with VH Audio ODAM capacitors. Whether this will be sufficient or not? Assuming it wasn't I'd seriously consider the Coincident phono, I'd think this would be best match since I do like Coincident house sound (also have Coincident 845SET). All the other phono stages I'd consider upgrade to Modwright will be similar price range to Coincident. |
@sns @soix thanks for the reply. At the time typing this reply, I just finished listening for 2 hrs with my digital rig. I think the main determining factor is, am I satisfied with the digital rig now. I think I am pretty satisfied. The music is just flowing in the room. It is very live like. This is the strength of the CSLS and confirmed by many others in various posts. So, my initial question is a very demanding one. I want a preamp not just can match the CSLS in liveliness, but also added with tonal density, even with a great MC phono stage. Even I feel I am too greedy in asking that, LoL. @sns Actually, my friend suggested me to buy the Modwright ph9. I also listen to it. Similar to the LS100, it has quite heavy tonal density which seems to match well with the CSLS. I am using an Allnic 1202, while it has excellent review, I feel it is missing the tonal density to match with the CSLS. On the other hand, the 1202 match well with the Modwright LS100. So, synergy is the key, I think. I added a Schiit Loki mini+ EQ between the 1202 and CSLS and honestly, it sounds pretty good. Maybe I don’t have the golden ear as my audiophile friends. They make it sounds like a sin to use EQ in the system, LoL. Can you share more on your thoughts on this Modwright PH9 + CSLS combo?
BTW, other components in my modest vinyl rig are: SOTA table Denon DL-H5LC MC cart SAEC 380 tone arm Audio Note Kit interstage 300B monoblocks JBL 4341
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BTW, my CSLS is upgraded to MK II. it seems this is a very common problem of the Psvane WE101D. You are the second person I know experienced the same leaking problem besides the previous owner who sold the CSLS to me. Before buying the Psvane, I email Israel inquiring about the LinLai, and he said the fail rate on LinLai is 80% … it seems the Psvane is not much better either. BTW, I tried the ODAM capacitor in Musical Paradise DAC earlier. I feel they are more dynamic, have punchier bass and faster speed than the Miflex KPAL aluminum foil capacitors.
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Seems to me Coincident not your issue in the least. You like your digital, analog your problem. While I've not heard Alnic, presume it on warmer, lower resolving side.
BTW I have Modwright swp 9.0se, the ph9 is updated swp with separate power supply. My analog setup isn't up to digital in resolution, transparency. Running Techincs Sp10Mk II completely refurbished in custom plinth, Jelco TK850L with Denon 103R.
Don't know your cartridge, but I saw one review claiming it crude and unsophisticated. If this true, try another cartridge, I'm in similar position with analog and my top two cartridge replacements are Audio Technica ART-9xa and Lyra Delos, research those two, this alone could be satisfactory.
The failure rate on Linalai Elite comes from initial production, supposedly, they have reliability improved with latest iteration. Grant Fidelity has latest production. I'd still go with the Elite solid plate, nice upgrade over Psvane.
So, if it were me, I'd do both Linlai and better cartridge. I don't think Alnic your problem. Coincident linestage is NOT the problem here. If you insist on selling I have buyer ready to go. |
I am in agreement with this synopsis. OP your digital sound is terrific via your comments. Replacing the CSLS would be moving backwards. It possesses superb sonic purity and is a genuine upper tier line stage. Best wishes Charles
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@sns @charles1dad In my digital rig, while CSLS is not 100% perfect, but very close to. I wish to have a bit more tonal density or weight in the music. I guess I can try further on cables and tubes, or even match with other power amps. Power amps initially is not in the option list because I already have two - Coincident 211 and Audio Note Kit interstage 300B. Jumping to a different preamp seems to be a more risky move. I almost feels that airy / open / transparent versus warm / tonal density are at two ends of spectrum; one increases than the other decreases. As you suggest, maybe I should focus on changing the vinyl rig. I feel the Allnic 1202 and CSLS is in the same category that is open / airy / transparent. That’s why it actually sound pretty good after I added a Schiit EQ to add more low frequencies, it doesn’t take away the openness and transparency. I didn’t make the move to the Modwright PH9 due to a similar concern that, I am afraid it will lose the openness and transparency with the trade off of added bass and warmth. But it seems it is still a less risky move than changing the preamp. Changing cartridge is a good suggestion, maybe I should look into that. Yes, the comments on the Denon H5LC is mixed. It is sold only in Japan, so not too many people know. I compared it with other MM and MC cart in the $1000 range at my friends place and the H5LC sounds the best. To upgrade, I think I need to get something in the $2000+ range.
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I’d give consideration to trying the Lanlai 101D as @sns recommended due to their fuller tone/body compared to the Psvane W.E Replica. If that doesn’t provide what you seek then you may just prefer a 6SN7 line stage. The 101D is what it is, pure, organic and honest presentation. The 6SN7 could be relatively speaking more of a bigger tone tube. I’ve read very positive comments about the Don Sachs line stage. I absolutely love the very natural engaging character of the 101D and its minimal editorializing. The Psvane W.E Replica is an excellent fit for my audio system. But that’s me and you have choose what’s right for your specific preference. Charles |
@gte357s What output tubes using in 211 and 300b. I was using Shuguang Black Treasure in my 300b amps until recent change to Psvane Acme, much more color with the Acme, Shuguangs bleached out in comparison. My 845 has also benefited with better output tubes.
Based on your comments as to airy, open vs warm, bass heavy I'd not change out major components at this point. Sounds like your close to your goal, small changes will likely get you where you want to be.
Change in output tubes, and/or cartridge may be all you need. Change in power cords may help as well. Clean AC important as well. When you get to the level of equipment and resolving powers your at, little things can mean a lot. Looks to me like you have all the fundamentals in place, just need to tweak a bit.
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This is exactly what I think. I understand each tube has a different characteristic. So, I bought the Modwright LS100 which use the 6SN7. Eventually, I choose the slightly more open sound of CSLS over the excellent tone of the Modwright. I know I cannot judge the sound of a tube by just one amp, but I feel 6SN7 tube is lacking the fineness and transparency in 101D. So, if I am going to try another preamp, I would like to try one with a different tube. Since I am quite satisfied with the current setup, I am not going to make decision light heartedly. Thanks for all the feedback. |
for the 300B, I tried the followings in both the 211 as driver tube and in the ANK: - Shuguang Black Treasure - Shuguang regular - TJ Full music mesh plate globe bottle - Sophia Electric Princess - Elrog - Shuguang WE300B - Cossor (LinLai) WE300B The Shuguang Black Treasure seems to have more bass, but then again, it sounds less airy and open. The WE300B works better for me in both the 211 and ANK. I am using GE 211. Also tried the Psvane. The GE gives a warmer sound. I also tried the Shuguang SG101. They seem to be discontinued. The experience is similar to the Shuguang Black Treasure. While it has more bass, it is less airy and not as open. Eventually, it seems I always opt for the more airy tube. Looking back, I think your are right, it seems I just need to tweak the sound. Try different tubes likely be a more cost effective way to get where I want. If I buy another preamp, seems I am starting this all over again. |
I agree your assessment and @sns is right, you have terrific quality audio components. No reason /need for making major component changes (In my opinion) but rather thoughtful fine tuning. I believe will get you where you want to go. I'm confident that you'll successfully sort it out. Charles |
Just to give an update. I am now happy with the sound and bass of my system with the Coincident Line stage and here are the changes I have made: 1) added a 3kVA Isolation transformer 2) a Synergistic Research Powercell 6 conditioner 3) use a SR UEF blue power cord on it 4) upgraded my streamer with a LPS 5) separate my turntable power from my preamp and DAC. It is plugged to another wall plug All my changes are around the power source and big improvement over the bass. |
Thanks. Yes, upgrading the power is very worthwhile because essentially all equipments are benefit from it. in fact, I bought the EAR 868PL. It is a very good preamp. However, I got similar feeling as the Modwright. It sounds different from the Coincident but still not quite there. Then I upgrade the power source which elevates both to the next level. Now, I am actually happy with both, and I can’t decide which one to keep. The CSLS doesn’t have a phono section, but the music sounds very spacious and life like that makes me don’t want to part with it. The 868PL has a phono and sound very good as well. If I sell it then I won’t have a phono to play vinyl, and I need to find a matching phono pre again. |