I'll give you a bump, as those are two of the cables I'm also considering but have never heard. I'm also considering the new(ish) Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme, which is also in that general price range.
Clear Day vs Acoustic Zen
As I mentioned in another thread, I am looking to make one or two upgrades to my system this year. Total budget is around $500 - 600. My current system is:
B&W CM10
Parasound A21
Cambridge Audio Azur 851D (preamp + DAC)
Cheap Audioquest wires (I think I paid around $50 for an 8 ft pair).
The two speaker cables that I've seen mentioned a lot here are Clear Day and Acoustic Zen Sartori. I almost pulled the plug on a pair of used AZ Sartori a week ago, but it was sold before I could make an offer.
There are other AZ Satoris on sale here at agon but they're all over 8 ft, which is not what I want.
However, I see that for the same $$$ for used AZs, I can get brand new Clear Day Double Shotguns.
Has anybody compared these two in their systems? Given that B&W is generally considered to be a tad bit on the bright side, I wonder if the silver in Clear Day might not be the best choice?
B&W CM10
Parasound A21
Cambridge Audio Azur 851D (preamp + DAC)
Cheap Audioquest wires (I think I paid around $50 for an 8 ft pair).
The two speaker cables that I've seen mentioned a lot here are Clear Day and Acoustic Zen Sartori. I almost pulled the plug on a pair of used AZ Sartori a week ago, but it was sold before I could make an offer.
There are other AZ Satoris on sale here at agon but they're all over 8 ft, which is not what I want.
However, I see that for the same $$$ for used AZs, I can get brand new Clear Day Double Shotguns.
Has anybody compared these two in their systems? Given that B&W is generally considered to be a tad bit on the bright side, I wonder if the silver in Clear Day might not be the best choice?
56 responses Add your response
Well I have not heard the Clear Day cables, but I have seen that they use silver conductors. I have heard many cables that use silver conductors, and I have owned the Satori Shotgun speaker cables. Both can be very good in the right system, but you would need to decide which way you want to go. You say that the B&W are generally considered bright speakers, but the question is: Do YOU think they sound bright? It doesn't matter what others think. That said, the AZ Satori is fuller, warmer, with bigger bass than any silver conductor cable I've heard. However, silver can also sound very good in the right system, more revealing, more definition. I actually have a couple of AZ Absolute power cords and a pair of Absolute interconnects, which sound better in my system than the Satori did. Absolute is a mix of silver and copper, but probably out of your price range. If you are looking for musicality, full bass, and warmth, I would recommend the AZ Satori. If you want higher definition, more transparency, I would look for a Clear Day trial. Very different cables that can both work well with the right gear. |
@jmcgrogan2 - First of all thank you for the detailed response. This is very helpful. So as far as my speakers are concerned, I feel that they can be a little on the bright side on certain songs. Also, sometimes they sound a bit more on the 'thin' side than I'd like them to be. I understand that a lot of this has to do with the acoustic properties of my living room, but unfortunately, there's not much I can do about it. Wife shot down the idea of hanging treatments on walls. If the Satoris are 'fuller, warmer, with bigger base', as you mentioned, then that's exactly the qualities I desire in my current setup. At some point, I'd like to introduce a tube pre-amp in the mix but that's probably not going to happen for at least a couple of years. I'd keep my eyes open for pair of used AZ Satori (8 ft or less) at agon. |
Some people feel all silver cables are good with tubed electronics, copper with solid state. But Cardas and Audioquest copper are used with ARC and other tubed amps at some dealers, so there are differences of opinion. Big surprise!That is because some tube gear sounds warm, while other tube gear is revealing, just like SS. I own a ARC preamp and Pass Labs amps, and I would say that the SS amps are warmer sounding than the tube preamp. @arafiq , you are welcome. Look on other websites too. I see a 8 foot pair and a 6 foot pair of Satori for sale on US Audiomart. The prices are a bit high, but you may be able to talk them down. I believe the 6 foot pair is new, I think that is a dealer. I've seen him sell a LOT of AZ product. Use HIFIShark when looking for a certain product. It's a search engine that searches through ALL of the marketplaces, not just Audiogon or Ebay. Happy Hunting. |
Some time ago I compared the Clear Day double shotguns with my then current AZ Satori's. In my particular system, the Satori's were a little darker and I believe the Clear Day's to my ear were slightly more open. At that time, the difference wasn't significant enough to change but if I was starting from scratch, I would choose the Clear Day cables. |
Arafig, Clear Day double shotguns speaker cables, which are silver are not thin and bright sounding. They have very nice tone and are very open sounding. They replaced my Audioguest Volcano's in my old system. In my new setup I found new cables which I like better. I still have 2 pairs on the side. If you want I'll let them go for a good price. If they don't work out for you,I'll take them back. Joe |
Folks, I just want to give a quick update. While researching the Clear Day cables, I had exchanged a few emails with Paul (owner). I asked him how the cables might perform in my system. He told me that he was not comfortable making any recommendations because it was very system dependent. This level of honesty and integrity is so rare in today's competitive business world. Paul could have easily told me whatever I wanted to hear. But he was very honest and forthcoming. Amazing guy! I wish we had more people like Paul in the high end audio world (or the political arena for that matter) ... but let's not get ahead of ourselves here :) |
@bdp24 I purchased the double shotguns from another a'goner. But Paul was still nice enough to recommend the double shotguns for my speakers. I am purchasing jumpers from Paul though. Since this is my first foray into the world of specialized cables, it'll be interesting. I'll post my impressions once things settle down. |
Okay, so received the cables last night. Admittedly, I have only listened for about a couple of hours, but here are the initial impressions... Like some other folks, there really wasn’t a jaw dropping moment. I haven’t noticed much improvement in imaging or soundstaging .. about the same. No noticeable difference in depth, width or height. Definitely no improvement in bass response thus far. That’s one area I was hoping to see an improvement. There might be a tiny bit of improvement in detail and clarity ... but to be honest, I don’t know if its perception bias or what. One thing that I definitely noticed is that the background is blacker. Definitely less background noise than before. Voices are more centered and ’present’ - not sure if ’present’ is the right way to describe it, but it does feel that the singer is sitting closer, in an intimate way, to me than before (that’s a good thing in my view). Having said that, maybe the wires need more break in. I’m not sure how many hours were put on the wires by the previous owner. Also, I’ve ordered jumpers from Clear Day. That might improve the sound. |
Okay, I really feel like an idiot now ... shouldn’t have jumped the gun when I posted my first impressions. So it turns out that the spades were not inserted all the way into the binding posts of my speaker. Second, I realized that the volume was set well below my normal listening levels. This is remarkable, because once I set the volume to my normal listening levels, it’s like a veil was lifted. I’ve been listening non stop for the last hour or so .... The soundstage has definitely opened up ... it’s wider, much wider now. I can hear things at least 4 to 5 feet to the left and right of my speakers. The cymbals reverberate more and feels like the reverberation is travelling outwards and around my room. The separation between instruments and the voices is much more defined. The base is not more per se, but has tightened up considerably. I’m hearing new details on familiar recordings. And it all sounds so clean. The best part is that the brightness that I complained about earlier is pretty much gone. I cranked up the volume waaaay up, and guess what? No more harshness. Lastly, and I’m not sure how to describe it, but it’s almost as if someone added more ’heft’ to the same music I listened to before. Okay, so I had my jaw drop moment about an hour ago, when I listened to Alan Pasqua’s The Antisocial Club. Holy cow!!!! They’ve finally stepped into my living room :) Sorry if I’m gushing like a newly wed. But this is pretty amazing for a guy who is new to this hobby. |
arafiq - Glad you are enjoying the Clear Days. A couple of your comments really resonated with me...in particular "added more heft". That was exactly the reaction I had to the Clear Days...and for me that was probably the major change I noted. It was like the music put on 20 pounds of muscle. By the way, good to read you were playing Pasqua’s "The Antisocial Club". That is an excellent recording to begin with and wonderful music. Pleased someone else knows and likes it (well, I assume you do!). |
Congrats. Sounds like a big win all around. At some point you may still want to pick up a used pair of AZ Satoris to compare. They're both great but likely different, and it might be very interesting now that you know more what to listen for. You can sell them pretty readily once you're done with little/no loss. And I agree with oleschool -- interconnects can often yield more significant differences than speaker cables so you might want to explore those too. It never ends. Congrats again. |
I just changed my trans to dac, to pre the other day from a basic rca bluejean to az reference 2 and mc2 .I had sent my 1m out to be shortened to .5 meter( mr lee did this an hr after he recieved them and had them in the mail to me the same day ,thats cool) .i just placed them back same disc same volume etc.the difference is serious!.crisper,opened soundstage and the acoustic guitar has jumped back into my stage. This has been proven to me again and again.. Soix, It is no secret I love mr lee and az ,but i can say the above cables probly sound great.But as you said different,cables are like tone controls imo .Some are flat ,nuetral ,bright and etc.. I also run satori cables along with az almost exclusive ,but as you stated they will change your sound.. also the shorter the cable the better, almost always.. best of luck |
@oleschool - thanks for your suggestions. Upgrading power cords and interconnects is definitely the next thing on my list. As for room treatments, it'll probably have to wait till we move to another house and can have a dedicated audio room. Until then, WAF is the reality I have to live with :) I do have few questions regarding power cords though ... 1. The power cord that came with my Parasound A21 seems quite thick and well made. At what price point can I expect a noticeable difference? Someone told me that spending anything less than $600 on a power cord would be a lateral move. Not sure how true that is. 2. What would be a reasonable price point?- Given that the goal is best bang for the buck, similar to the Clear Day cable upgrade 3. Do I upgrade the power cord on my Pre/DAC (Cambridge Audio 851D) first or the amp? 4. What brands would you guys recommend? I'm planning to stay with Clear Day cables for sometime to come, so synergy is important. |
@arafiq - haha...I forgot that I'd posted about The Antisocial Club. I do tend to blab about the stuff I like mainly because it's great when something clicks for someone else. We'll try again here (even tho' it's not the topic of your post...but good test material, maybe). See if you like the Jazz Pistols. Superstring is their latest. Listening to Special Treatment courtesy of Tidal right now. Both are very good. Contemporary fusion from Germany with more of a rock tilt than that Pasqua. Excellent interesting music, great musicianship and recording quality. Their bass player is killer. BUT the one I really want to own is their "live". Ordered it from a Discogs seller in Netherlands. Hope it eventually gets here. Link to 'Bugs' from their "live" (also on Special Treatment). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qRym18h_74&ab_channel=ViantCadia91 |
Check out this thread about Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme cables and cords. Well within your budget. Contact Bob Grost, Audiogon member: rgrost https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cerious-technologies-new-graphene-cables |
Oleschool, I am also a fan of Acoustic Zen. Robert Lee has also been a big help to me. I have AZ cables on everything. If you are using Tsunami power cords you may want to try some Krakatoas. I really noticed improvements in sound quality with them. On my amps I have Gargantuas IIs, these power cords are the size of fire hoses and don't restrict any power. |
mcgal ,i am also a az fan i run a revalation audio lab ac cable( krakatoa size and very high quality also in that price range) on my amp and psu it has a funky plug and brad does these alot.I run tsunamis on my dac,tt and trans etc .I am always ready to snag a krakatoa used.Other then that ac/psu set up i run all az including adagios.. |
Your choice , i have all az cables ac and adagios i bought all used .. mr. Lee knows me by name .. he is a wealth of knowledge.. he has shortened and reterminated some for me but is just happy knowing i use az and certainly knows i want to upgrade to cresendos ,..az spkr owners get 40% off all cables etc also best if luck either way |
@jayctoy Your recommendation of Pangea AC14 is definitely worth considering. I have narrowed down my search to the following four: 1. Cerious Technologies GE power cord (most expensive, since only available as new) 2. AZ Tsunami (around $280) 3. Cullen Crossover Series 2 ($325) 4. Pangea Audio AC 14SE MK2 Signature - only $65.00 I wonder if Cerious Technologies is 'that much' better than the Pangeas, especially for a mid-fi system like mine. But it does sound the most intriguing, albeit the most expensive, option available. Has anyone compared the Pangeas with other PC's in the < $500 range? |
Dragon....I use ClearDay double shotgun with my all Ayre/Vandersteen system and have found them spectacularly good. I've tried many cables but none are as truthful in my system as the ClearDays. Only the very expensive top of the line Wireworld gives a very slightly better sense of "ease" as do the ClearDays....but only in an A/B comparison. |