Reasons to wet clean a record more than once include:
1. the initial cleaning was inadequate; or
2. the record was re-contaminated during playback or storage.
Compulsiveness aside, there are no others.
To avoid #1, clean each record thoroughly the first time (to whatever standard of cleanliness you prefer).
To avoid #2, play and store cleaned records to avoid re-contamination. This would include steps to:
a) remove dust;
b) reduce vinyl's propensity to attract dust (ie, static); and
c) shield the record from dust when not in use.
I have my methods, developed over many years and after many trials and comparisons. My standards are high but my tolerance for re-cleaning is low. Therefore, every record sees an extensive cleaning, playback and storage regimen.
It works, at least for me. I'd estimate that 90-95% of the records I clean do not benefit from a second cleaning. OTOH, a similar percentage of records "cleaned" by friends do benefit from a second cleaning using my regimen. YMMV, of course.
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Bill, it is my understanding that all records are pressed with a thin coating of a mold release agent applied to the stamper. If the stamper is not so treated, the LP's resist detaching from it after the cooling phase of pressing. This seems to be true, but according to what I've read on Vinyl Engine, not every pressing plant uses it, and if it's used, it's a judgement call by the operator on when to use it. Release agents are used for tool and die parts in manufacturing, wherever parts are being molded. |
Effischer, ideologically I share your view even though I called it 'insane approach'. But I think this would be too much work and very inconvenient arrangements for me. I will machine clean the records I play after 10-20 plays or every year. And of course I will use Last record preservative. Every serious audiophile I heard of does it. There are also records that I don't play, they are for archive, I will clean them every 10 years, maybe. I keep copies of a few albums for future generations or if there is an accident and I lose my playing copy. |
Once a record is fully and effectively cleaned, there should be little need to reclean- if you get a thumb or fingerprint on the record while handling it, the oil from your skin can attract loose contaminants, like dust, and that oil will not be removed by dry brushing or dusting; when the record is spinning, a vortex action is created, which draws dust onto the surface- that can be brushed off after the record is played; if you thoroughly darken your room, and use a small, high intensity flashlight, you are often able to see a fine layer of this dust on your gear; if you use a cloth or brush to dust it off, it just floats into the air, to resettle again. (We aren't in a 'clean room' environment). Inner sleeves can shed or leave lint. I think the issue of 'mold release' is overblown. I have spent a lot of time cleaning old copies - some take some work and multiple steps/methods, but once clean, it is rare that i need to re-clean. Static can be a problem, but there are solutions for that too. I try to minimize the amount of dry brushing I do, because I find the most brushes shed and can contribute to more static even though they are labelled as "anti-static." I also find that the anti-static gun is overkill and hard for most people to use effectively. |
Oh, wait a minute Bill. The Last Preservative is not designed or intended to remove the mold release agent (allegedly, if you prefer) found on new LP's. Nitty Gritty at one time offered a product named First for that purpose, but it's no longer available. The Preservative is to be applied to an LP after it has been completely cleaned. I don't know how widespread your opinion of the product is, but as always, better to error on the side of caution, especially when an application is permanent. |
Stop scrubbing Bill! According to Last, the preservative bonds to the vinyl of the LP at the molecular level. Scrubbing won't reverse that permanent bond. |
Bill, it is my understanding that all records are pressed with a thin coating of a mold release agent applied to the stamper. If the stamper is not so treated, the LP's resist detaching from it after the cooling phase of pressing. This seems to be true, but according to what I've read on Vinyl Engine, not every pressing plant uses it, and if it's used, it's a judgement call by the operator on when to use it. RTI was one example given as not using it. Release agents are used for tool and die parts in manufacturing, wherever parts are being molded. |
Bpoletti, would you mind going somewhere else to talk? |
Bdp24 - Watch a video of the stamping process. No Mold release. Ask The Disc Doctor.
I won't give my opinion of LAST products. I'm still try to scrub off that %&#@ from the few records I treated. After 30 years. |
Once I made a phenomenal discovery:
I tried to keep my computer monitor clean back in the old days of CRT. Any detergent applied always left residue and stains up till I started using only water. Wet cloth followed by paper towel worked best.
I thought maybe I can sell these bottles of water... |
Does anyone have evidence that mold release compound MRC is used in the manufacture of LPs or CDs? |
Bill, it is my understanding that all records are pressed with a thin coating of a mold release agent applied to the stamper. If the stamper is not so treated, the LP's resist detaching from it after the cooling phase of pressing. That agent is not dissolvable with ordinary record cleaning fluid, which is why Walter Davies of Last (and others) created a chemical that DOES remove the agent from LP's without harming the vinyl. |
While I agree that "cleaning" (with detergent or cleaning agents) should be done sparingly, I find that static removal may need to be done prior to every play.
I don't find most carbon brushes to be effective at removing all static charges from an LP. They need to have a grounding strap to be most effective (most products do not have straps).
The best method for static charge removal is complete wetting in a fluid. I use pure deionized water in one of the those Spin Clean machines. You can even remove the brushes if you just need to remove static charges. Deionized water will not leave a residue if pure enough (ie better than 10 ppm dissolved solids). I also find those clamp type label protectors to be extremely helpful when using the Spin Clean, both to keep the label dry and as a handle to rotate the record in solution and dry the record afterward. |
Mold release? Really? What state within the process is mold released used? I've watched videos of record stamping and there's zero mold release applied. So when is it used, what is it and is "mold release" just a fabricated excuse to sell another product?
BTW, I clean records once. Use a carbon fibre brush, maybe a chenille brush before and after each play. What conditions would require a second cleaning other than a flood? |
After a good initial cleaning on an RCM, all you should have to do is use a good carbon brush before - - - and after - - - each play (as Mofimadness said). And, as others have said, after the initial cleaning make sure you store the record in a clean inner sleeve.
Or course, accidents sometimes happen, and if the cat happens to barf on the record, you'll need to start anew. |
FWIW, I have cleaned all my LPs with an ultrasonic system, applied LAST mold release (only to new, sealed & unplayed records), treated them with LAST preservative and used a ZeroStat before putting them in anti-static sleeves. I still use an old-school Discwasher brush with LAST standard cleaning fluid before every play, and have for 30+ years. All of my records still sound like new and are virtually dead silent. Almost everyone else here will disagree in one or more particulars, but what I do works for me.
You pays your money and takes your chances. Good luck & happy listening! |
Dear Inna,
You've just forced me to publish (check out the new thread) :)
Cheers, |
The worst idea is to professionally clean record before each play.
Think about the stress to the record first. The less the longer the better. |
What I hear so far is the opposite but just as extreme approach to cleaning records before each play. This is unlikely to be correct, especially if you have a high resolution system and good hearring. |
I agree with both Mofimadness and Kgturner. One good clean and then anti-static brush before each play after that. If your records become so dirty after that which requires more cleaning by a RCM then the problem is with you and not your records.
Regards, |
I VPI mine once and then LAST them. Never clean them again,
unless they need it, but like Kgturner said, "they never
do". I do dry brush them before and after I play them
with an Audioquest or Decca brush. |
Once I get a record, I clean it on my VPI, then run it through my DIY Ultrasonic cleaner. Once it's dry, it goes into a MoFi bag placed behind the record outer sleeve in a re-sealable poly bag. I don't clean them again after that unless they look dirty....which they never do. I tend to brush off each side after playing.
TL;DR....one and done. |
