I would like to start a thread, similar to Orpheus’ jazz site, for lovers of classical music. I will list some of my favorite recordings, CDs as well as LP’s. While good sound is not a prime requisite, it will be a consideration. Classical music lovers please feel free to add to my lists. Discussion of musical and recording issues will be welcome.
I’ll start with a list of CDs. Records to follow in a later post.
Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique. Chesky — Royal Phil. Orch. Freccia, conductor. Mahler: Des Knaben Wunderhorn. Vanguard Classics — Vienna Festival Orch. Prohaska, conductor. Prokofiev: Scythian Suite et. al. DG — Chicago Symphony Abbado, conductor. Brahms: Symphony #1. Chesky — London Symph. Orch. Horenstein, conductor. Stravinsky: L’Histoire du Soldat. HDTT — Ars Nova. Mandell, conductor. Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances. Analogue Productions. — Dallas Symph Orch. Johanos, cond. Respighi: Roman Festivals et. al. Chesky — Royal Phil. Orch. Freccia, conductor.
All of the above happen to be great sounding recordings, but, as I said, sonics is not a prerequisite.
Jim I have that Lesley Howard collection, quite remarkable.I have read that Howard initially planned for 90 discs, and as the years of the project went by, more Liszt was discovered, and the project had to be expanded, ultimately taking 13 years. Of course some of it is "just transcriptions". I like Howard a lot, "perseverance furthers".
@skim1124 I'm sorry if I misunderstood you but I shall give you one to get on with , Liszt Complete Piano Music 101 discs by Lesley Howard. Although I have this collection I only dip into it if I read about someone playing something obscure of Liszt's. Again apologies.
@jim204 My question isn't about which single version of a piece to get (quality). I just want to know the quantity of CDs a complete collection would require. It's not an actual quest since I'd never have the time or the money to be able to actually buy/download such a collection, but I'm simply curious about the number. Hypothetically, someone would have the funds/time/storage space to have a complete collection and be able to play a recording of any piece of classical music ever composed (if it'd been recorded).
Just buy BIS recording of anything and ESPECIALLY any thing from Nordic Lands ! I do believe that I have never run across any serious listener that did not start with symphonic and eventually wandered into chamber music , save one, myself .
I think my taste is the better for it , but then I've never been anyone else, so I can't run an experiment .
@skim1124 I hope you realise that this being a thread on all things recorded classical music that none of the contributers here can agree on which CD's to buy in the first place. As an example say you wanted to get a Sibelius Symphony Cycle and you were only limited to one, do you go for a historical one with lesser quality of sound or one of the myriad ones with first class sound but maybe not the visceral excitement of the historical ones. I wish you well in your quest.
Rather than start a brand new discussion, I thought I'd ask the classical aficionados here to garner their knowledge and educated guesses.
If I wanted to get recordings of every classical piece ever recorded (not written, but recorded) without duplicates (e.g. just one recording of Beethoven's 5th, one recording of Bach's cello suites), about how many CDs would it take? For simplicity, let's limit it to western classical music, from early music to contemporary. According to the Bach 333 project, it took 225 CDs to present every piece composed by Bach (but including some duplicate recordings of the same piece). If someone as prolific as Bach can be covered in ~200 CDs, I'd think that most can be covered in far less.
Would the average output of a composer be something like 50 CDs? How many classical music composers have there been who have had their music recorded? 10,000, 20,000, 50,000?
For the sake of agument, let's say 20,000; then 20,000 x 50CDs = 1,000,000.
Do you think 1,000,000 CDs would be enough to have a complete set of every piece of classical music ever recorded? Am I grossly underestimating or overestimating?
I apologize for intruding with a non-music post, but I've always been curious about this.
Also, does anyone have a link to a website that might have information related to questions like this?
Another blast from the past, Hamilton Harty piano concerto. The Chandos recording is really excellent, very clear, good balance between soloist and orchestra, and a nice distant perspective to the whole thing, which for me adds to the (relative) realism of the thing.
Len, get you on jean Redpath . Many years ago I attended a concert in Ayr Town Hall and the great and the good of all things Burns were there but it was Jean Redpath who stole the shoe. She sang my Love is like a Red Red Rose, not a dry eye in the house. Funnily enough the man who was most associated with that song Kenneth McKellar was also there but he couldn't sing it any more sice his wife passed.
jim204 & two left ears, I agree with you both on a high ends systems inability to reproduce anything close to real over a home system. For me though a modest system and a good recording can serve well in bringing me me into the music itself . I just don’t try to bring down the house.
Re using headphone as a source. FWIW I recently put together a separate, dedicated, headphone system - I’m just amazed at the clarity this can provide sans all of the audiophile stuff about imaging, etc. Its just about clarity and tone.
FWIW I too have found that I now prefer music for solo piano and chamber music. Especially the former. Just don’t need all of the thunder and lightning to get my attention. Mahler is just dying on my shelves now, but Sibelius comes to visit now and again. Not really true, I just play orchestral as background music for reading.
jim, Here’s one think most Scots think of as Classical and right they are .
Found it going through my LP ’s today , Jean Redpath with Abby Newton on "A Fine Song for Singing " Felt the earth under my feat as my gran turned over on "Annie Laurie. "The Wild Geese" made me want to join her .
I use phones as well but a speaker over 96 eff . can come close .
Because really few systems + rooms can truly handle properly a full-scale symphony orchestra in flat-out hue and cry, listening to chamber music in the home is often an all-round more satisfying experience.
This is true. But I've recently been using small monitor speakers in near field (1m) with a powered subwoofer, and this comes closer to full orchestra representation than my large system in the same large room.
I couldn't agree more @twoleftears that rooms and systems cannot handle full scale symphony orchestras in things like Mahler Symphonies and so forth. I now only do my listening on headphones because I became delusioned years ago with trying to chase that elusive magic system because it just doesn't exist. I also listen only to solo piano music and chamber music now with the odd piano concerto thrown in. I used to go to loads of full classical concerts and the BBC were there to record them for later broadcast. Now I do think the BBC are wonderful at broadcasting classical music and for every concert and every broadcast later they were a poor representation and it wasn't the BBC to blame but again we can't expect hi fi equiptment to get it right in those circustances.
Because really few systems + rooms can truly handle properly a full-scale symphony orchestra in flat-out hue and cry, listening to chamber music in the home is often an all-round more satisfying experience.
Long ago I loved symphony orchestras, heard Philadelphia under Ormany, BSO under Leinsdorf, etc. But I seldom listen to orchestras today, not even recordings. It is just too much for me.Maybe it is my age, maybe that I have not lived in a city for many years, so my life is quieter. I much prefer sonatas, solos, occasionally a duet, trio or quartet. More musicians do not increase my enjoyment/appreciation. And "modern" music does not reach me.
As for rock n roll, I still love it, but not often. New Years Eve comes but once a year. I still listen to some folk/pop, live is very good. Recordings are mostly to learn new songs to play.
I do love Hawaiian slack key, but have stopped trying to play it since my teacher died.
If I could actually play classical music, that would be my preference.
We’ve come back but the damage was done. And the music of today isn’t built on the epitome and peak of orchestra with early 20th century romantic music. The music of Arvo Part is no more approachable than the trash being spewed by John Cage or the even worse, Philip Glass. Even more respected composers like Higdon aren’t going to gain much long term traction. I suspect the symphony format died with Shostakovich. The future of the symphony is movie music (which of course Hans Zimmer has tried his best to destroy, but there are still some wonderful composers in that space).
Just as the novel went all the way to Finnegans Wake and then came back to chronologically organized coherent narrative, so I think we're well back from the atonal period. Look at the popularity of Arvo Part or Goreki. My own favorite from the youngest generation is Dobrinka Tabakova. Check out her album String Paths on ECM.
It matters what you mean by destroyed. If you mean popularity, I’d say if anything there seems to be an uptick in that due to orchestras finally coming to their senses and playing more pop music like movie scores. If you mean the craft of making new classical/orchestral music, that was ruined in the middle of the 20th century with the advent of atonal music (which also destroyed jazz as well). I’m afraid we’ll have lost at least 2 generations to atonal music due to professors in colleges over emphasizing it currently. A bigger issue, tbh, is the way Hans Zimmer has destroyed movie music, which has enjoyed 80 years of success. So if you mean popularity, then all is as well as could be given classical will never become “pop” again. If you mean the music being written today sucks, then blame 20th century composers for a shift to atonality which was never going to be popular and drove the most talented composers away.
Mahler Symphonies are my passion. And today is Mahler’s birthday. Listen to your favorite Mahler Symphony recording to celebrate. I’m going to have a Mahlerthon and listen to all ten symphonies.
"
Research in my teens into historic organ tuning, and thence a decade of
experiment and research instigated by contemplating Chopin's 2nd Sonata
in Bb minor brought a realisation that it's the modern tuning that has
robbed us of the differences between the keys, and that it wasn't my
ears at all. It seemed as though Chopin was deliberately intending the
effect of the key of Bb minor to express the cold wind whistling over
the graves and I knew from historic organs that that is what the tuning
would do. The colour has been robbed from us and the true meaning of
"Chromatic" is so lost to us now that Colour isn't mentioned in the
relevant Wikipedia article.
The consequence of this is that our
classical music has been reduced in the number of dimensions in which it
communicates and that this has led to increasingly mere mechanical
performances that don't engage so well emotionally, leading to a
degradation in musical appreciation and of its value as emotional
communication and literature.
"
I have a whole shelf-full of consort of viols CDs, mainly English (the composers I mean). I'm particularly fond of an album entitled "Crye" done by an ensemble called Concordia. Worth seeking out if this is your thing.
I hear you jcazador . If you listened to my post that young Frenchwomen
playing German music on a Dutch organ sure didn’t miss anything .I had some of that Westminster stuff and was quite fond of it as well . I am a religious person and that aspect is more important to me than the technical side , not that it isn’t important .As I’m not a musician I don’t understand much of it in any event .
The entire world neglects " early music ", to its own disadvantage .
I am very fortunate that the Twin Cities has a dozen first-class early music ensembles and, literally, a hundred choirs of which a dozen are world class .
IMO , a classical lover who knows not composers like Josquin des Prez, Du Fay, Gesualdo, Palestrina , Lasso, Gibbons, Byrd, Monteverdi and the mother of both lyricism and flow of musical line , Hildegard of Bingen,, is like a man who prefers McDonalds over a 3 star Michelin restaurant .
Well , perhaps I exaggerate a bit , but you get the gist of it .
And I beg the pardon of the Dutch and Belgians , Amsterdam, Brugge and Ghent continue to fly the flag .
Been listening to Buxtehude for over 50 years. There was a series of recordings by Alf Linder on Westminster Recording Co., played on the
Organ of Varfrukyrka in Skänninge, Sweden, made in 1772 by Lars Wahlberg and Anders Wollander." Interesting that Buxtehude played on organs that were NOT well tempered. I have heard/read that old sacred music loses something significant when played on well tempered organs. Of course the limitation was that old organs were limited in what keys they could play.
Yes Len that sure is one super recording, I'm afraid Buxtehude can be sadly neglected over here in the UK. Everyone tends only to listen to his younger star and all others are ignored. I don't even hear Radio 3 pushing much organ music either. Our local town council have organised some splendid recitals in Ayr and surrounding areas with some really good soloists, I have been to quite a few and they tend to be about once a month.
The Fountain Head, a towering Masterwork from one of Bach’s greatest influences . Played about as well as it CAN be played ! I have a fine USB DAC pluged in my computer with a pair of Beyer headphones playing this better than 90% of all Systems ! You are there for about 400 bucks .
"Earl Wild was one of the great pianists of the 20th century"
Hard to argue with that statement and, FWIW, he was made in America. :-)
I'm very partial to his recordings for solo piano, and especially his transcriptions. Easy recommendations for 'Rachmaninoff Songs', a 'Schumann Recital', 'The Art of Transcripion - Live from Carnegie Hall', and a six CD set of Liszt including Transcriptions and Paraphrases.
I'm not sure how much of this is still in print, but if they can be found they are well worth hearing.
A couple of others I over looked worthy of mention - 'Earl Wild plays his transcriptions of Gershwin', and for Piano and Orchestra, Variations on an American Theme (Doo-Dah) and the Concerto in F. These Doo-Dah variations are unique - the disc, for no other reason, is a must have for Wild enthusiasts.
A recent recording of Wild's transcriptions/arrangements worth hearing and will give a fairly good idea of Wilds music in good hands (pun intented) Xiayin Wand's "The piano music of Earl Wild" on Chandos.
I’m listening to the Byron Janis recording, and I hear what you mean. The lack of subtlety is typical of Mercury’s “close-up” sound technique. Placing microphones so close to the orchestra and soloist is their trademark. Some people like that. But it does rob the sense of perspective.
twoleftears, My favorite rendition of the Rachmaninoff PC's is by Earl Wild and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Jasha Horenstein.
This has been around for many years (for good reason!) and it is presently available from Chandos. A set of all the PC's as well as the Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini. If these was the only versions of the PC's that I owned (and its not, I've got a lot, old and contemporary) I'd be very happy.
My system is the most revealing it's ever been--and I'm not always liking it.
I've been immersed in Rachmaninov the last few days. Listened to Daniil Trifonov for no. 2, and Argerich for no. 3. Then I put on Boris Janis, on Mercury (2 & 3), which I thought was supposed to be a classic performance and recording. The contrast wasn't subtle. The piano was overly loud throughout in terms of the balance with the orchestra, and I wasn't getting a lot of shading of volume from the piano in "p" and "f" passages. The piano itself sounded kind of monotone: muscular and woody and lacking in air. Strong preference for the live Argerich in no. 3, where she wasn't as fierce, ferocious or aggressive as I'd thought she might be. And sound-wise it was no contest. Also preferred the Trifonov in no. 2, though I don't think he imbued it with all the lyricism that's possible.
Any recommendations for a truly "romantic" rendition of no. 2?
Jeremy, Thank's for the links to Laurent Martin's website , I shall give it a good look over tomorrow. It looks very interesting and quite diverse .Thank's again, Jim.
JimThanks for the correction, I seem to have conflated Laurent Martin and Jean Martin. It is Jean's Faure that I like so much. And it is Laurent's Alkan Equisses. The Heller Preludes are Jean.
In my concerto survey, Bortkiewicz's no. 1 on Hyperion struck me particularly favorably (probably more so than any of the other more or less obscure compositions on the CDs that I own of that series). So when I found out that he had composed two more, it was game on. The CD arrived today, label: Piano Classics, Stefan Doniga w/ Janacek Philharmonic conducted by David Porcelijn. Nearly through no. 2 (for the left hand), and it's also great. I don't see how anyone who likes Rachmaninov wouldn't also like these (though, obviously, they don't rise to the same level). A pleasant discovery.
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