Gday, Im looking at purchasing some ceramic fuses for my Primaluna gear. The question I have, would a gold plated or rhodium plated fuse be the way to go? If so, which would be the better choice? Any information or help, would be appreciated. Cheers Ricey
There are other factors that affected my test of speaker fuse vs wire. One is that the contact between the fuse holder and the fuse is different for a fuse configuration vs. a wire configuration. The original experiment was performed casually and was done to demonstrate an audible difference between two things inserted into a fuse holder.
The actual cause of the audible difference may or may not be the fuse element inside the fuse. Without further investigation, and controlled experiments, the actual root cause of the audible difference is undetermined at this time. I only can claim that a repeatable, identifiable difference can be heard between the two objects, fuse vs wire.
Ricey, from all the discussion, it's clear that you are referring to a fuse in the power supply part of the amplifier. I've never tried different fuses in that location. I can't opine whether different fuses matter there.
However, I have tried different types of inexpensive fuses in the speaker circuit. Here, the difference was clearly audible. To further investigate this, I asked a musician to listen as I substituted a speaker fuse with a 'wire', in a single-blind test. The musician friend heard the difference every time and consistently characterized the sonic difference, fuse vs. wire. His description matched what I had heard while listening alone.
There are so many variables that can confound a listening test, that to do a scientifically valid blind test is very difficult. But, if the effect is pronounced enough, a simple test may suffice, like in the speaker fuse experience I had.
In my opinion, try the fuses and see if you can hear a difference. If so, you wind up choosing the one that sounds better to you. Or, you could wind up more confused than ever. Sonic memory can be deceiving. Good luck, and hope to read bout your conclusions.
Pure copper has 100% IACS conductivity. Copper allloys have conductivity between 99 and 86% IACS.
Rhodium which is much harder than platinum and palladium, typically 800-1000 HV, and has exceptionally high corrosion resistance. It has electrical conductivity of 38% IACS. This makes it the most electrically conductive of the platinum group metals.
Some idiot reads the last sentence above which is made in the context of platinum group of metals, and later thinks Rhodium is one of the best conductors of electricity amongst all conducting metals.. .
I had a couple of SR fuses immediately blow when doing a test a few years ago, and I have never had a decent Littelfuse self destruct or do anything but its job. Expensive fuses don’t and simply can’t make any difference by providing sonic improvement over stock fuses supplied in modern gear, and if people swear by hearing some sort of improvement after swapping out regular fuses for "magic" ones, they’re simply riding the warm waters of expectation bias. Claiming there is some wonderful improvement with magic fuses by offering piles of hyperbole doesn't prove anything but what you "feel" is happening, but that often has little to do with facts these days...I "feel" my cars go faster when they’re clean, but I also know they don’t.
Ah thought to add my 10c --or in my case $200's (!)worth to this discussion-so I will get straight to the Nitty Gritty!
Firstly I am in the Fuses can make a positive point in a system, no not earth shattering but yes improvements, some subtle can be determined.
I've installed Hi Fi Tuning/ Isoclean/Furutech/AMR and foolishly last week I fell for the blurb about Synergistic Research--I purchase 2 of their "lauded" Fuses, both correct rated T versions for my Dac.
I changed the factory fuse for the "new" SR pushed the button--nix nada ??--removed SR fuse--blown-well measured dead as a door nail WTF?? brand new correct type /etc!
Put factory identical rated fuse back in and powered up--fine all lights on DAC goes to full operating mode--excellent.
But thinking it was just freak surge--and wanting to experience the SR Magic--I replaced the other spare SR and switched on
Poof--same B***dy episode-- this fuse blew also instantly .
I put the original factory one back all all fired up and ready for music--no problems.
So let this be a warning to those looking to buy Synergistic Research Fuses Frankly don't bother!--I'd flush your dollars--in my case $200--straight down the Crapper.
They are Crap and deserve to go where Crap goes.
Give this SR mob a wide berth-- I've used Hi Fi Tuning and Furutech fuses successfully for 12 years they are genuine are deliver as promised.
I don't know much about the human auditory system but if you give different fuses a shot and hear an improvement. Then didn't you just improve your system? That's what being an audiophile is about IMO. Now, I'm not sure which fuse will be a better choice. Going back to OP question. But I'd give both fuses a shot and keep the one that sounds the best.
Oh this is nothing compared to his obsession with most Class-D ... fueled by erroneous information about Class-D and thermal effects and impedance.
cal37131,092 posts12-29-2020 4:57pmIt's
funny that George can get everyone onto a "paid shill" conspiracy
theory when he's in all the preamp and dac threads talking about how
everyone who likes active preamps is ignorant. Of course he manufactures
and sells a passive pre.
Allnoise, that’s you! with not a shred of anything believable about fuses Even the manufacturers of the fuses, won’t come on here and back your snake oil up. That’s proof there’s nothing in them!
Georgie will be this way, f o r e v e r. His way of invading and attacking enthusiasts in fuse threads will keep many a shrink up all night, pondering his motives.
For members that wish to know the truth, on fuses etc
Just change the fuse if old for a quality brand EE industry standard 50c fuse, as fuses (even the snake oil ones) do age after many turn on cycle surges. Quick blow fuses aging and slow blow fuses aging left to right. https://ibb.co/0ZtRv4Jhttps://ibb.co/mbzs3RK
As for the wires yes too those also, especially to the ones serving the big current supply to those tube heaters, they now will also be getting blackened and getting hard under the insulation, as well as the where each end terminates. And yes they definitely could put in new $1 Bussman or Little fuses, as the old fuses would have seen some "massive turn on surges" and their holders A perfect example of this https://twoatsea.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/wire-corrosion.jpg
It's funny that George can get everyone onto a "paid shill" conspiracy theory when he's in all the preamp and dac threads talking about how everyone who likes active preamps is ignorant. Of course he manufactures and sells a passive pre.
Would be nice to have a thread or two on this site where people didn't end up attacking each other.
audio2design...OK, I'm good with what you wrote. It is hard to stay silent when certain people start calling you names. I've been called a Marxist and Socialist and a few other things I've forgotten. I hit back, regretted it, and promised myself I wouldn't stoop to that level again. Now I just laugh it off. It's not worth getting upset about.
I try not to use such terms cal91, but I am sure I have done it before, and given the abuse that one gets here, I am pretty certain I would have thrown that back at someone.
However, what I will bring up is expectation bias, sighted bias, etc. as I know, not just think, know they are real. I have fallen prey to it. I have seen many fall prey to it.
I would also never say that someone should be prevented from buying anything (well unless they owe others money and are not paying it back then I may change my mind). Unlike someone else, I would never insist that all threads of a certain type be closed. It is a very rare instance where censorship is the answer. I must say though, the behavior of some here really does make you question whether they are paid shills. It is a bit bizarre their level of promotion.
audio2design...You got me. What I have been hiding is that I own all of the fuse companies. You people who think you hear an improvement with my ridiculously overpriced products have been bamboozled. And you have made me a 1%er. Thank you. Are you happy now that you have exposed me? I have nothing to hide, not about fuses anyway. Again, I feel people should be allowed to make their own decisions about whether or not they want to buy expensive fuses, cables, or whatever. Providing information is great, if it's done without accusing people of being gullible or idiots if they don't follow your advice. I am not saying you are one of the posters who engages in such behavior. I feel we can be more civil when discussing these things.
don’t resort to name calling and throwing insults.
I’m really starting to believe that what George said about some folks on here being shills has more than a little bit of truth in it.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
They erase my rant. Then read how you don’t call names as you call folks names, just like your buddy.. NOTHING to contribute..
Not, "I’ve tried it". BUT "it just doesn’t work". Just like I said CALL NAMES...
The implication is that person is a LIAR. Worst of all insults.. OVER and OVER again. JUST can’t seem to understand and cannot seem to learn... I really wish some of these guy’s worked with LIVE humans, those insults would last for 5 seconds. Those people would be asked to pick up their marbles and GO.... :-)
Like I said 89 days in a 4’ X 4’ cage... You learn a lot about yourself...
I think the answer is a lot easier. NON fuses, can’t hear well because of a physically issue or WON’T. Either one is still the same ol answer..
I don’t need to prove anything to anyone... I can hear the difference... I made a living hearing the difference.. a lot different than most...Most people can't pay attention long enough to hear if there is a difference.. My observation.
More important, I enjoy some of those change.. I seldom say "better"(sometimes), I usually say the sound changes... IF I like the change I keep it and send the finding on to the "MASTER TUNER" and he works it all in to his next thread "Why speakers sound bad" and "need to be tuned". Smarter than most actually, at least he/she is learning..
Again fuses work... I stayed on topic... Don’t erased... OK... I’ll just post it a different way over and over. Like you and the Eeyore 6. Now don't get mad because I like kenjit, and put you on the back burner.. I'm sorry we're done.. I'm breaking up with you.. YES THIS is a Dear John.. You'll have to find another.... I can't even speak your name, I feel a sonnet coming on.. blubber blubber blubber...
Love that guy.. kenjit.. smart guy... :-) My hero..
Like you I don't resort to name calling and throwing insults.
You do know that your words posted here are for anyone to go back and read? And now you're taking the role of Knight's Templar of the fuse world and being a safety nanny? Go back and read up on the various threads on fuses going back years and you'll see you're not the first to try that tactic. Nice try.
"The harm is they convince others with less financial resources that
their route to audio nirvana is through the things less likely to
achieve that. The view of the audiophile as a rich old guy with
excessive disposable income is often not the case with audiophiles
spending what to many would be an excessive percentage of their income
chasing the dream."Very well stated audio2design. Like you I don't resort to name calling and throwing insults. I talk in a calm manner and I state facts. Seems when you speak the truth some on here will try and shut you up with all kinds of insults instead of discussing the technical merits of what is being discussed. I'm really starting to believe that what George said about some folks on here being shills has more than a little bit of truth in it. I would tell anyone that is reading this and deciding if they want to buy "magic" fuses is to talk to some technically inclined folks, maybe your electrician friend, your go to repair guy, an engineer that you know, someone that has some knowledge about electrical things and ask them if "magic" fuses pass the smell test. More than likely they will tell you that those "magic" fuses smell like rotten fish. Than tell them how much they want to charge you for a fuse that has no traceable credentials and is covered in snake oil, oops audiophile grease. A question for you fusers, since these fuses don't have any real documentation, does my insurance policy still cover my house if it burns down because a fuse didn't do it's job? Fuses from Bussman, Littlefuse and other legitimate fuse companies have pages of documentation to support exactly how much current and for how long an over current before they will blow. Anyone sitting on the fence about fuses should visit one of their websites and enter a fuse number to get all the specs it must meet. Do you fusers get all of that with insurances? Do those fuses still do the job and meet the specs after they have been tampered with?Please don't answer with another round of insults, just point me to the supporting documents is all I ask. Should be easy on your part. BillWojo
However, if it is okay for people to promote nonsense that will never pass anything related to a controlled listening test, and never has in my experience, then you shouldn’t have a problem with me pointing out that these things never pass controlled non-sighted listening tests.
What are you trying to hide cal91?
I think people new to audio have the right to be exposed to accurate knowledge, do you not? I would rather budding audiophiles learned about things that will actually improve their sound, that makes them happy audiophiles, which makes them spend more on equipment and music, as opposed to chasing tweaks that leave them unfulfilled, even giving up on their audio dream.
cal91212 posts12-27-2020 7:27pmaudio2design...So you are their self-appointed savior from themselves? Don’t they have a right to decide for themselves? I don’t know any of the people on these forums. I have no idea what their financial statuses are. I simply believe that, whether or not the decision is a wise one, they have the right to buy a fuse if they want to. It doesn’t affect me in any way.
audio2design...So you are their self-appointed savior from themselves? Don't they have a right to decide for themselves? I don't know any of the people on these forums. I have no idea what their financial statuses are. I simply believe that, whether or not the decision is a wise one, they have the right to buy a fuse if they want to. It doesn't affect me in any way.
OP your doing fine. The Eeyore 6 will always chime in. The argument is the same, the answer is the same.. Then there are those, that offer their information freely, from their point of view, and are ATTACKED by the same people.. Over and Over again.... Same people.
The question is the same. "Have you, Did you, hear a difference with a fuse change"? Eeyore 6... There is NO... bla bla bla...
NEVER answer the question asked. DID you notice a difference? Which fuse did you use? Just there, to call names, and usually someone takes the "BAIT" and starts calling names back.. Just what the Eeyore 6 want...
The same with kenjit and millercarbon. Just mean.. No contribution, Just attack, call names. Yap about how their system looks, or they don’t like the color, or that K is starting another "Speaker" thread... and call names...
See the "names" run to the thread and just start blabbin’, nothing to do with the thread topic. Just pure jealousy. "It" (jealousy) always brings unkind words... Start calling names... Same bunch... I just sit for the most part.. to a point... Then it’s time to say something, to the PRICK... or PRICKS... Moderator don’t erase this... The Eeyore 6 just can seem to learn manners.. You know "NO NAME CALLIN"....
One more thing.. is kenjit, erasing his own threads? "K" don’t be messing with "Dick Tracy".. Something is stinkin’, They can’t be killin’ that many of your threads... No fibbin’ either..
audio2design, NO this is not intended for you.. I "THINK" your ok... Weird but ok,, I’m sure the feeling is mutual and tolerance is even greater...
The harm is they convince others with less financial resources that their route to audio nirvana is through the things less likely to achieve that. The view of the audiophile as a rich old guy with excessive disposable income is often not the case with audiophiles spending what to many would be an excessive percentage of their income chasing the dream.
billwojo...I wasn't going to comment but you said something that caught my attention. This idea of expectation or confirmation bias is valid. But I would ask, what harm is done if someone can afford what you call snake oil and believes they hear an improvement in their beloved audio? They're happy because, even if it can't be measured, they hear an improvement. And that's what this hobby is all about - doing everything you can to enable your system to sound as close to a live performance as possible. I don't see why anyone would try to convince someone that what they think brings joy to their life is not real and they have no right to that joy. If you can't accept it on those terms, how about considering the fact that we need people to spend money for the economy's sake. It puts people to work which we need desperately. It works for me.
Cal91, I did detect the sarcasm.... As far as good people, thats why Ive stayed with the thread.. Coz they're out there somewhere.... Thanks for your input. Cheers Ricey
ricey...I hope you detected the sarcasm in my writing when I listed "safe" topics. They are anything but safe. It would be nice if we could discuss the pros and cons of audio equipment without it devolving into personal insults, but it does happen all too often, particularly with certain topics. I don't want make it sound like it's always like this, I have asked for advice and been blown away by the civility and desire of many members to help. Some members have gone so far as to offer advice through email because they wanted to avoid the possibility of attack by others. I try to see the good in people, because there are a lot of good people out there, but sometimes it's a struggle.
Hey there, billywojo, you're nowhere, no how, qualified to back me into any corner. I actually enjoy jousting with fools, so you should feel honored.
Your sponge like absorption of Georgie's screeds are a hoot to watch, but not as much fun as watching you backtrack and try to explain your way out of it. Also, your use of all those childish acronyms that even the kids don't use anymore betrays your lame attempts at saving face. Laugh away son.
Gday Cal91, at one point, I was sitting back with a bag of popcorn..... Then, I started to think, this is out of control.. I considered unfollowing, or even shutting the thread down, not sure if I can do that anyway. Eventually, somebody might add to the thread, with some advice or thoughts, that doesn't also include an attack on somebody's character or level of intelligence. Come on Guys........ ?? Merry Christmas to everyone. Ps. Thanks for your input Cal91. Cheers Ricey
ricey...You started a fuse thread and didn't know it would end this way? You must be new to these forums. Now you know. Next you might ask about power cords or the SR thingamajigs that you stick on your speakers and walls. Also ask for speaker recommendations. All of what I listed are safe subjects. Everybody agrees about them.
There are probably 5 people right now ordering audiophile fuses right this second. Most of them don't post online ....they are busy enjoying the improved sound.
And now he thinks he's the messiah, able to predict live sales of snake oil fuses, and what owners think of them. You really must be gifted.
NA!!!! second thought your just here to self promote your wares, and mods that have no poof, just voodoo, snake oil and trust me's,
Love and Joy, it works.
Nonoise I haven't laughed this hard in a while. You really are funny. I will say though that when you resort to personal attacks on me that I must have backed you into a corner. I don't know George, first time I've talked to him was on this thread. I did mention in my first post here that
"No amount of logic will persuade their thinking and than they turn to
personal attacks if you keep presenting them with hard data." Well, it sure didn't take long for that to happen. George, seems were side kicks now. LOL Are you laughing at Nonoise as hard as I am? This is just to funny! LMAO! BillWojo
The vast majority of audiophiles don't use pricey fuses, nor do manufacturers of audio gear...if $150 fuses (or any fuses beyond stock items like those from Littelfuse) made any difference they would be in everything...they're not.
my plan, when i get around to it is do away with the fuse and all that nasty wiring...how ? entanglement......
the laws do seem to change a bit and evolve over time.. the ear/brain..not so much. There is room there for irrational exuberance, doubt, cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias, the dopamine hit when you make a sale or recruit a new convert....even room for joy, and music...
Tell me, billwojo, do you blind test every and any piece of stereo gear you buy? I bet you don’t. So why the hangup with fuses? Afraid you’ll hear a difference and lose Georgie as your side kick?
That, and if you want to come across as sincere and as someone who can stand on his own, stop emulating Georgie (right down to his language) and be your own man: speak with your own voice.
Now you might know yourself to be an unstable person, given to hallucinations and delusions, and may even be on meds for it, but I’m very familiar with my senses, which have served me well for all my life. Not given to mental maladies that some here fear, I go through life sure in my beliefs and perceptions. Maybe it’s something you can work on.
Bill, the persistent long term ones, I really believe are shills for the $$$$$$$$$ fuse companies, as no one can be that ****** for that long, so there’s no outcome if you challenge them to an blind a/b because they will never do it.
Better asking them to get their manufacturer’s of these boutique $150+ fuses to come on here to these pages and back up what the they are saying, especially in regards to AC mains directional fuses.
So how many of you "fusers" are willing to do a blind listening test to actually see if you hear a difference? I think that after spending 30, 50 or 150 bucks on a fuse you will trick your mind into hearing something that doesn't exist. It's a well documented phenomenon. Very prevalent in voodoo audio. BillWojo
Fuser's they are just a lost cause, full of voodoo and snake oil. Because the mark up on these $150+ fuses is so massive they'll do/say anything to get it.
Repeat after me, I believe in Shun Mook Discs, Shakti Stones, $150+ fuses and any other voodoo or snake oil that can’t be explained why they can sound better.
Repeat after me: I don’t believe in all laws of electronic engineering, bench tests and measurements. As they are what’s used to design very piece of quality audio equipment I have. And if?? the designer listens to it and thinks it can be better, then he goes back and uses once again, all laws of electronic engineering, bench tests and measurements to make adjustments to the circuit and listens once again.
And after all that Repeat after me and again and again . "There is no voodoo or snake oil in audio!!!!!!!"
Repeat after me. "I am absolutely correct. My perspective is absolute and completely free of bias."
People who hear differences cannot be convinced that they don't. People who don't hear differences cannot be convinced that they exist. It doesn't matter how hard you type or how many times you repeat yourself.
Seems there are certain rules of physics and science that just don't pertain to audio electronics.
You got that right Bill, they think it doesn't exist. Just too many "snake oilers" and "voodooist" in audio, trying desperately to make big bucks from the gullible with BS, that they can't workout that they are being shafted big time.
All that can be done is to counter the BS they say with hard evidence that there is no voodoo in audio, with EE principals and EE tests and laws.
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