Gday, Im looking at purchasing some ceramic fuses for my Primaluna gear. The question I have, would a gold plated or rhodium plated fuse be the way to go? If so, which would be the better choice? Any information or help, would be appreciated. Cheers Ricey
Personally I think ricevs and George both make claim to more knowledge than they possess.
Steel is a very common component lead material. For rectifier diodes copper clad steel with nickel plate is common. Even if the lead is plated copper (never bare), the contact is almost always steel or nickel due to bonding issues with glass passivated contacts. Steel is also predominant for through hole small resistors. Copper is never bare and the solder is now pretty much all tin so the signal passes through a lot of copper nickel and tin interfaces.
Oh there are steels that are not magnetic by the way.
George, I feel your frustration when dealing with these absurd claims. No amount of logic will persuade their thinking and than they turn to personal attacks if you keep presenting them with hard data. Seems there are certain rules of physics and science that just don't pertain to audio electronics. Even NASA hasn't yet made these discovery's! But just wait till they do George, rockets will go faster and farther than ever before! I hear a major audio manufacture just hired a few of Santa's laid off elves to work on fuses and cable risers. Seems snowballs make the ultimate cable risers, now they are working on snow that doesn't melt at room temperature.
Don't sell many SR fuses, I take it.. Do customers ASK? What do you say, NO.. if they ask for them?
I'd give them the same spiel that I gave you, and tell them to save their money, and spend it elsewhere where it will do good for the sound, instead of the voodoo that a few fuser generals preach (shill) here.
Lost me on that one.. My name is Scotty.. not sunshine, and I don't bark, But thanks for the bright outlook...
Fish? Fish oil, OK I got you.. No just asking what you would do if a customer came in and asked if you would upgrade a system, that's all.
Don't sell many SR fuses, I take it.. Do customers ASK? What do you say, NO.. if they ask for them? All the repair guys around here, have SR in stock, Bees wax, a few... Or they will get them for you.. Even Mac repair shops... Daily City, Sacramento, a few.
Just look up any part and look at the spec sheet that shows you the material used as the lead......that is where the proof is. Pick up almost any component and put a magnet near its lead.....if it is not attracted then it is not steel. There is your proof. A thousand/million/billion times over proof. Where is your proof that all components use steel leads?......it is no where....because it is not true. I could post links to millions of parts and their spec sheets that all show there is no "steel".
Ricev’s, you have no idea of the gist here, where’s your proof, your the one who’s ignorant. All you do is promote your own commercial and snake oil, and you’ve be deleted for it many times now.
For members that wish to know the truth, on fuses etc
Just change the fuse if old for a quality brand EE industry standard 50c fuse, as fuses (even the snake oil ones) do age after many turn on cycle surges. Quick blow fuses aging and slow blow fuses aging left to right. https://ibb.co/0ZtRv4Jhttps://ibb.co/mbzs3RK
As for the wires yes too those also, especially to the ones serving the big current supply to those tube heaters, they now will also be getting blackened and getting hard under the insulation, as well as the where each end terminates. And yes they definitely could put in new $1 Bussman or Little fuses, as the old fuses would have seen some "massive turn on surges" and their holders A perfect example of this https://twoatsea.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/wire-corrosion.jpg
George is so ignorant. There are very, very few components that use "steel" leads.......are you kidding? Almost all transistors, tubes, resistors, capacitors, etc. use copper leads. There are a few rare op amps that use steel leads and some inexpensive diodes use steel leads. George lives in an alternative universe. All fuses sound different and all materials sound different. Only those that listen with an open mind and heart truly KNOW. Fuses and fuse holders do not have "steel" connections....most all of them are brass or bronze.
So George, if one of your customers came in with Cary 805 Es and said upgrade the wiring, replace the coupling and decoupling caps, check and replace parts as needed Cary, calls it a sonic UPGRADE.
Your barking up the wrong fuser tree sunshine. (starting to get a whiff of fish??)
Sure better spec’d caps will make a difference, (and it’s not the lead out wires from the caps). Also the heat inside those things will dry out caps real quick.
And yes they definitely could put in new $1 Bussman or Little fuses, as the old fuses would have seen some "massive turn on surges" and their holders, (re-below) with those 805 heaters filaments asking as much turn on current as one of Krell’s biggest monoblock amps.
Just change the fuse if old for a quality brand EE industry standard 50c fuse, as fuses (even the snake oil ones) do age after many turn on cycle surges. Quick blow fuses aging and slow blow fuses aging left to right. https://ibb.co/0ZtRv4Jhttps://ibb.co/mbzs3RK
As for the wires yes too those also, especially to the ones serving the big current supply to those tube heaters, they now will also be getting blackened and getting hard under the insulation, as well as the where each end terminates. A perfect example of this https://twoatsea.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/wire-corrosion.jpg
So George, if one of your customers came in with Cary 805 Es and said upgrade the wiring, replace the coupling and decoupling caps, check and replace parts as needed, you’d tell them, there is no need and they are wasting their money? The wire is fine and whats in there is just as good as what your going to replace it with?
Cary, calls it a sonic UPGRADE. It sounds BETTER.. Have you upgraded amps and heard a difference? Copper is replaced with Silver wire or clad, caps are replaced, resistors are tighten up, PS HecFred, and filter cap. Match a good set of valves. 2-3 K, you are gonna turn it away? BTW, they want SR blue fuses in the units.. LOL Just add it to the bill, kind of customer..
I ask, because that same thinking is the difference between a 100 amp, a 1000.00 amp or a 10,000.00 amp.. Usually better parts.
You seem to be ok if the price is right. What if the price MADE a 100 amp into 1000.00 amp, for the cost of 150.00 worth of resistors and caps?
I think that is the main part I don’t understand with your way of thinking...
If SR fuses were 6.50 would you use them then? Complaining about the cost is one thing, saying they don’t change the sound is a different thing all together.. They change the sound at a cost of 100. each if you buy three (on sale). 300.00.
So is the BS the cost, the quality, the money back guarantee, all of it, part of it. How does that work as a repair person? You don’t do upgrades?
that "fusers" make up, and have no idea about electronics, or science.
ricey OP6 posts Gday, Ive decided to go with a ceramic fuse, with nickel plated brass ends. They only cost about $6.75
Good quality fuse ricey, just don’t get sucked into the $150+ fuse BS that "fusers" waffle on about here, especially directional ac fuses, just "snake oil".
Gday, Ive decided to go with a ceramic fuse, with nickel plated brass ends. They only cost about $6.75 I will also treat with Deoxit.... Cheers Andrew.
Gotta love the fairy tales that Georgie thinks up: makers of fuses taking into consideration that some dolt is going to play their stereo at the salt water’s edge so they devised poorly conductive metals to circumvent said conditions.
Yes but you feel like a cockatoo eating them. Toast is for me.
not sure why, but what you said about different types of metals reacting, seems to make sense.. Dont know why.
Google dissimilar metals with current running through them, especially if in damp salty air environments, should have learnt about this in school science??
Gday George, not sure why, but what you said about different types of metals reacting, seems to make sense.. Dont know why. Vegemite is also good on Salada Biscuits.. Cheers Ricey
Also, I live in Australia, and let me tell you, Vegemite is better on toast
Of course it is what else would we put it on, the yanks use it as axle grease I heard, they have no idea.
Like I said ricey OP , no difference between Gold and Rhodium plating on fuses, as the thousands of components (resistors transistors capacitors diode etc etc) in your equipment, have (nickel plated) steel legs, so are the fuse holders and the IEC mains socket and plugs.
Actually it’s better if the ends of a fuse are made out of plane nickel plated steel, just like the fuse holders themselves are. As dissimilar metals with current running through them causes corrosion to occur and will carbon up at the contact points very quickly.
Gday, when I started this thread, I never thought it would end up like this. All I was asking about, was, the possible difference between Gold and Rhodium. I've appreciated all the input, forum members have put in. I feel, people should be allowed to voice their opinions, within reason, without ridicule. If people want to keep contributing, please feel free. Also, I live in Australia, and let me tell you, Vegemite is better on toast..........!! Cheers Ricey
I don't know if the use of rhodium/gold in fuses is audible, but it is in cable terminations. I have two identical Furutech PC's, one with gold connectors, the other with rhodium and there is a difference in sonic signature.
Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What have you guys been smoking.
Look at the thousands of components that make up audio equipment, all their legs are made from steel, no gold/silver/rhodium etc etc. Just plain old steel!!!!!!!! Next we have some snake oil company gold plating capacitor legs for the gullible and charging $1000 each.
Stop boosting this yet again "fuser" thread and let it die it’s rightful death.
Like I said rhodium is a good conductor, not a bad one. Right below aluminum. We're not talking about the signal path. Quite different we're talking about the PS fuse, not a fuse in the speaker or in the path..
Look at lead, you know what every battery in every car that uses a starter...is made of.. LEAD.. again pretty darn conductive..
A better conductor doesn't mean a better sound, though it can... I use pure silver, you want it brighter, silver clad over copper.. Again is has a signature, but not for everyone..
Gold like rhodium is used for corrosion, more than anything..
Actually, rhodium has a much less conductivity than gold. However, I think that it's superior for analog circuits. Silver has the highest conductivity but, in my opinion, presents its problems. I did read once somewhere that silver does not have any natural dampening for electrical resonance - this may be why it is described as bright/harsh. As far as high frequency response, I think rhodium has a better and more extended high frequency response in the analog spectrum. Much better than gold (which is warm sounding and rolls off highs).
Rhodium is a pretty good conductor, audio2design. It's used a lot in harsh high current environments. It's less expensive than gold but close in conductivity. The reason for the jewelry, the stuff doesn't tarnish, ay. I saw a LOT of Rhodium plated terminal ends in harsh environments, with high HIGH humidity, little or no issues.. Not subject to galvanization and a great corrosion inhibitor.
It does have a definite sonic signature, close to the old nickel / lead / tin, RCAs.
A lot of the industrial DC fuses use Rhodium, SS, and Nickel, for the outside of breakers or fuses. Inside, 12VDC is copper, 24VDC, is silver for contacts. Has been for 50 + years...
One metal is hard which means it deforms little which means it can't deform to increase contact area and reduce resistance.
One metal is a bad conductor of electricity.
That metal in both cases is rhodium. Makes nice jewelry, terrible for anything electrical. If someone is claiming the superiority of Rhodium in a connector you can pretty much dismiss their view.
Hello Ricey: I am familiar with the gold and rhodium plated fuses you mentioned which are made by Littlefuse. The gold plated ones sound better than the rhodium plated ones. Unfortunately, they don't sound much better than standard glass fuses, just a slightly different tone. If you want a better sounding fuse, try the Synergistic line, like the older, more affordable SR20, or their blue fuses.
I haven't seen the the slow blow wire move, but I have seen the .5 - 5. amp fast blow, bend. I don't run amps that require above 6-8 amp surge on startup.
I had one going through fuses too, 3-4 times a year. Everything in that amp was better than new, except a filter cap was acting up, one day it sprung a leak.. YUP like an ol Harley, I changed all 4 caps, hasn't blown a fuse sense. BTW they were just replaces, just a bad one, in the bunch, Cary took all 4 back and replaced at no charge, and paid the postage..
The fuse your looking at, is not how SR fuses are made. They don't fail like the one in the middle and on the right. Both those fuse will sound bad. The new one will sound good until it looks like the one in the middle. Different construct all together than SR fuses. Many of the other fancy fuses are different than a Busman in "HOW" they are made, it's not just what the end caps are made of or the fuse wire, its how and what it's made out of and that GOO they put on it...
They are different... How they sound, and how they are made...
@georgehifi Thanks for posting. Those images are eye opening. Any idea how many cycles passed between images?
No, but if you watch a fuse very closely on a poweramp when you turn it on from cold, you’ll see the fuse element inside bend and return slightly, with the turn on current surge Apparently it came from a vintage juke box technician
@ricey I tried 2 HIFI Tuning classic gold fuses in my ARC ph3 phono and ls15 pre. I have noticed a huge change in sound the bass is fuller and deeper with more impact, mids are smother and fuller with great imaging and the highs are smooth and well extended with much better detail. My soundstage is wider and deeper with better placement of instruments. I got mine off of ebay from
Parts_ConneXion_Store
for a great price. Just wish they made a dual element fuse to place in my amp.
Just re-new your fuse with the same amperage if it’s old and has seen many turn on cycles, with a quality one like Bussman or Littlefuse and clean the cradle fuse contacts and maybe squeeze them in a little for a tight fit. And definitely don’t be sucked into any $$$ boutique hifi fuses
Just change the fuse if old for a quality brand EE industry standard 50c fuse, as fuses (even the snake oil ones) do age after many turn on cycle surges.
Please ricey, when you get your POC fuse and try it out, please come back and let us all know just how crappy it was. How you feel about getting duped into believing a bunch of technical stuff that turned out to be stories. And then later when you try a Synergistic Orange Fuse with the money back guarantee how shocked you are to find out it really is worth every penny. Then with that experience behind you let us all know which one you now consider "reasonable" the one that cost time and money and did nothing, or the one that actually did what you wanted.
Thanks everyone, for the input. I reckon I'll just give it a go. If their is no harm done to the sound, and even if their is no perceived change audibly, no harm done. Im looking at a range of fuses at Littlefuse. They have a lot of technical info on their website, and their prices are very reasonable. If anyone has tried ceramic fuses in Peimaluna gear, I'd still like to hear. As well as any other opinions or thoughts. Cheers Ricey.
The question I have, would a gold plated or rhodium plated fuse be the way to go?
No. Even if a fuse does sound better, there is no reliable way of being sure that is why, so no reason to decide based on this arbitrary factor. I never buy anything based on random tech stories like this. They are stories, nothing more, and the sooner you learn to set them aside and focus on how things sound the faster you will progress in this hobby.
A logical corollary, you can safely ignore anyone telling you something, anything, can't work because: reasons. Decide for yourself if something works by listening to it. Then later on you can decide if the story makes any sense. Never the other way around.
If so, which would be the better choice?
One that sounds good. Since no one really knows exactly why one sounds better than another, the only reasonable path is to choose based on listening impressions of people you feel you can trust. All you can do. That is why instead of asking people here and having to wade through all the anti-fuser blather I search and read listener impressions and reviews.
Like, you could search and read my reviews of the Synergistic Blue and Orange fuses. Long story short they are both very good and about equivalent to a good $500 power cord. At least on most things like my Melody amp, which is about as close to your PL as you are likely to find.
Only one place they have not performed, the motor controller for my turntable. Now is a great time to buy Synergistic, there's specials with things like buy 2 get 1 free, at least at high-endelectronics.com not sure if all Synergistic dealers are doing this.
Go for it, find the right orientation and enjoy. I prefer rhodium plated over gold. Fuses do have a positive effect, how much depends from your gear. Even putting electrician tape or damping the glass only on normal ones can bring an improvement. G
There are a few out there I’ve used, Acme, and SR. BOTH change the sound. If you try one and you don’t hear the difference, SR will take it back. I haven’t heard changes in my DAC units, BUT all the analog gear there was a GOOD change.
Again some folks can’t hear the difference or are not patient enough to let the fuse settle in. 10-40 hours.. One direction will sound better than the other.
The acception is if the system is, or is NOT revealing enough.
Test: Pull the current fuse in your unit. Turn it around, if you can hear the difference, chances are your system will like the new fuse..
The anti fusers will always say the same thing... Nothing I haven’t already heard.
The Eeyore 6. :-) "Oh no, I have to say the same thing over again". Good folks. Bad information.. They should preface their statement with: 1. I’ve tried it, and it didn’t work for me. 2. I’ve tried it, and it did work like this on this piece of equipment.
MOST have NOT tried them, or their system, is just as I said... or they just can’t HEAR the difference.
The fuse is a nice nugget if you can hear it..
I had a buddy that gave me a hand full of SRs, Told me to use what I wanted.. I didn’t even have to order the things.
I can tell you of one unit, me and 5 of my buddies couldn’t hear the difference in, Schiit Freya +. It is a good little pre, but that fuse, changed nothing.. Bees Wax. SR, ACME. I sent my Schiit Freya + back.. different reason though.. The one that was kept...No change..
Mcintosh, Cary Audio, Pass, Mark Ls, Krells, Brain 565s, Ampzilla,
OP this is a open ended question, be prepared.. LOL
Waste of money! Stick to Littel or Buss fuses. All a fuse does is prevent excess current from damaging a component. It is NOT part of the music signal.
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