Cartridge ISOLATION; What Say You?

Hey Jim,
What MM phono stage are you referring to above? 

Does anyone here, revealing my age remember Iversons work w strain gage ? ( electron kinetics / Eagle )

yes, carbon fiber violins have incredible attack, not so much sustain.

The crux of what we are talking about is small sample size leading to outsize conclusions…

Yes, I own a Herron and currently in a bit of a nadir, just 5 other phono stages….One of them in MM mode absolutely destroys my much loved Herron. The Herron is superior in MC, cue those essential FET.

Reality; is tge Herron a Lamm, ARC or VAC at $10-$15k ? No. I would be curious to see what Keith could do w a $10k out the door budget. He is skilled engineer with ears and it seems based on my conversations w him, emotionally mature, ego in check. 

How do i know that in my systems anyway that the Lamm, and ARC are superior ? by having the social and economic capital aka relationships w dealers…

Nothing like living with a well broken in reference grade phono for a week…

The Zesto falls squarely in my radar…

open mind, open ears, think one thing is only truth…. ha.

@tomic601 I think MC’s gushing over the strain gauge actually speaks more towards his personal musical priorities, which may or may not match others’ priorities. He seems to like his SQ very clean, fast, and with a sense of immediacy that not everyone may connect with - in fact, some may feel these sonics could become fatiguing. This SQ describes the Tektons (designed by a drummer) as well as the Herron phono stage which is the cleanest (almost SS-like) sounding tube phono stage I’ve ever owned.

Plenty of folks totally connect with these sonics but I did find some of Fremer’s (one of MC’s audio heros - did you know he once called MC on the phone???) comments interesting as Mike reflected on the virtues and possible compromises of the Strain Gauge in his Stereophile review:

That stop-and-start ability, that freedom from overhang that audiophiles often confuse with "warmth," are leapfroggings in performance over more usual cartridge designs—yet the SG-200’s delivery was so fast and clean that there was little time for harmonic development to unfold before it was off to the next aural event. So while the attack was extraordinary, the sustain was somewhat stingy. The SG-200 could sound somewhat cool and lacking in physicality, and while its top was crystalline and airy and its bottom tight, deep, and well textured, the mids were less than fully fleshed out, making the overall sound somewhat cool and slightly recessed.

The SG-200 is a perspective-changer, that’s for sure, and not because it adds gross colorations—though with that apparently rising high end, it definitely has a unique sonic character. Don’t expect unrelenting brightness, because it didn’t consistently sound like that. That particular quality seemed to be record-dependent, and not predictably so, for reasons perhaps Peter Ledermann can explain.

Admittedly the irony to what I've typed above is that I'm not sure MC has actually ever heard a Strain Gauge...not hearing a product admittedly has not stopped him from gushing over other products in the past.

Ralph, i would love to come cut a record with you !
My wife and I sponsor vinyl release now and then for a local artist, so except for cutting, i am no stranger to the process. I took a run at buying Berdan’s Skully….but…..

 

and oddly, ex locus rant ignores the inconvenient truth of the video ( yes the referenced Lederman ) that Moving Coil designs including….wait for it the Koetsu Rosewood suffer from massive reflected energy.

The gushing for strain gauge has already started….Of course, i have heard both..they have virtues…and somehow….yet leave a lot on the table….

I think a much more interesting and salient point about the Peter video, and one as a customer, i plan to ask is; If you have built a moving iron cartridge with 56 db of channel separation, why not change the Hyperion spec ?

Btw Peter, holder or coholder of 11 IBM patents, has my highest esteem and respect. Hopefully his health is recovered fully!

As the Eagles sang “ every form of refuge ( design ) has it’s price.

amidst all of this 

whole bunch of stuff vibrating around like mad

MC ignores that cartridge/tonearm compliance is a spec having any relevance, particularly if you have an Origin Live tonearm.  Why focus on some vibrations and not others?  Cognitive dissonance at its finest. So bizarre...cherry picking science.

In locus sounds impressively Latin and gives an air of certainty, which is unfortunate since in this case that is the last thing we have. The phono cartridge is moving around like all get-out. It isn’t even "in locus" with respect to the head shell, which is the one thing it is most "in locus" with of them all.

To understand this it helps to understand, neither is the cartridge body. In fact, not one speck of any of it is "in locus" that is the whole point! The instant the stylus moves, the other end of the cantilever does not instantly move exactly 1:1. Quite the contrary.

What happens instead? A wave travels down the cantilever to the other end. Whereupon reaching the end it is reflected and travels right back down to the stylus. Don’t take my word for it either, watch the darn Ledermann video!

This same concept of vibration does not stop here. The whole cartridge body is vibrating. Upon reaching the head shell a lot of this energy reflects back into the cartridge, and all the way back down into the stylus. This is what we are trying so hard to avoid. This is where the Enabler comes in.

But it does not stop at the head shell either. The same process continues on down the arm tube to the bearings, base, plinth, and on and on. Each and every one of these interfaces is an opportunity for vibrational energy to either be absorbed and dissipated or reflected back down to the stylus.

The generator of course cannot distinguish one vibration from another. It sums them all together and away we go. This is what we hear when we play a record. Not some academic theoretical "in locus". A whole bunch of stuff vibrating around like mad. As far from in locus as you can get.

Pink Triangle or Funk Firm...chief designer Authur Khoubessarian. He had many firsts in the analog realm. These days, he's not widely recognized. Surely not a "fringe company"

These record grooves by the way, they are at right angles to each other which means each side is 45 degrees to vertical, which means Ralph is wrong all the vibrational energy is not in the plane of the platter.  

When I made this comment I was not referring to vibration of the stylus in the groove. I was referring to vibration from elsewhere- airborne, from the motor, etc.


What we are looking for with respect to the cartridge is that the cartridge body is held in locus so that the cantilever transfers the maximum energy to the coils within. If the cartridge body is able to move in anyway during that process it will be causing a coloration. Its only means of being held in locus is the tonearm. If it is able to move with respect to the arm, its a coloration. Therefore it must be coupled to the arm and the arm in turn must be competent so that it actually does its job.

FWIW I use LPs I recorded myself and also LPs that I mastered myself... I recommend doing the same for anyone who really wants to establish a reference.

I found this, makes my head spin, especially with short term memory issues.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tonearm-damping-damped-or-not-useless-welcomed

Raul is referring to damping the movement of the arm, rather than the arm tube. These are different topics.

In any case, I gather you do not advocate adding a soft layer under the tonearm base, or adding a soft layer above any cartridge, correct?

IOW, these 'soft' treatments can only be an improvement if they are solving a problem that could/should be otherwise avoided/eliminated, correct?

@elliotbnewcombjr

Exactly!

Dear @millercarbon : Agree to disagree on the nude cartridge body designs because nude helps to low a normal developed cartridge body resonances and at the same time lower the cartridge weigth. Nude is an advantage over not nude designs. Have you first hand experiences about?

I remember the Ruby 2 LOMC cartridge ( I owned. ) and on the same times Cardas marketed exactly the same Ruby 2 ( made it by Benz Micro. ) with only one change: the Cardas wood cartridge body came with small holes around and guess what: every owner like it more than the original BM one.

I remember too what I did it ( tested. ) with my Allaerts MC2 Finish Gold where it performs with better quality levels in nude/naked version.

I own and owned the Colibri cartridge that if I remember was the first nude design and the Colibri performs really good ( specially the lowest output samples. ).


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Wood is not inherently damping. Quite the opposite. Why it is used in so many musical instruments. Notice no musical instruments made out of carbon fiber? Fiberglass? Composite materials like these ARE inherently damping. 

"Nude" merely means the body doesn't extend around and cover as much of the mechanism. Other than that, no difference.  

why are only MCs "nude"? 

Because he is so handsome. Michelangelo did his best with what he had to work with.

[What about] cartridge bodies with inherent vibration dissipation?

[Such as] wood bodied cartridges, specially formulated compound bodies, layered construction, IOW: built-in ’enabler’ characteristics?

Or the opposite – the so-called "nude" cartridge?

Is Air (eg nude) a "built-in ’ebabler’ characteristic", or is Air an entirely different matter we haven’t covered yet? How do the many nude cartridges fit into this discussion?

And just out of idle curiosity – why are only MCs "nude"? Why no other types – is the only reason the need to stick a new stylus into it from time to time?

cartridge bodies with inherent vibration dissipation?

wood bodied cartridges, specially formulated compound bodies, layered construction, IOW: built-in 'enabler' characteristics?

So many interesting points.

Question, is it not the job of the cantilever to function as suspension along with transferring the vibrations to the motor of the cartridge?

No, the only job of the cantilever is to transfer stylus motion to the generator at the other end. The cantilever is really just a shaft, a stick, sometimes a pipe. Cactus needle, in the case of Ledermann and Schroeder.   

Usually somewhere along there the thing runs through a donut of rubber, or elastomer if you want to get fancy about it. That donut, together with whatever it is mounted in that holds it in place, is the suspension.  

In which case, shouldnt it be the only thing that is vibrating/moving?

Yes, but how you figure that is ever gonna happen? Nothing ever moves without making everything around it move. Stylus moves, cantilever moves, suspension moves, and this same thing continues right into the cartridge body, head shell, arm tube, arm bearings, arm base, plinth..... This is the whole point of using special material like the Enabler to help minimize all this harmful vibrating.  

If the cartridge is also suspended, would that not remove the accuracy/immediacy/directness of the transfer of energy - as the place where that energy should go, would be damped. In being damped, seems like the energy transfer would be reduced.

Correct. That is why it is so helpful to distinguish between people like me who are carefully explaining the precise nature of decoupling, and those who leap to all kinds of unwarranted conclusions. 

To wit:

The cartridge however is very low mass and has to track a violently undulating groove. It cannot just be free to move. It must be held rigidly, but yet also in a way that facilitates some vibration to dissipate into the more massive arm, while damping cartridge vibration, and all of this at the same time as not reflecting vibration right back down into the stylus. 

One to remember. Watch for when they over-simplify the complex. Seriously, watch! It is fun, because for sure fifteen minutes later they will be over-complicating the simple!

TRY IT Home Made?

Enabler is 1 mm thick I think, I'll start with 1mm of my gasket material.

The Acos Lustre GST 801 arm has the easiest/smoothest VTA on-the fly ever, as well as removable headshell type arm.

I'm gonna get ready, get Arne and Bill over here (that might take a while to coordinate), have a listen together.

I currently have two active MC Cartridges that I like a lot: Goldring Eroica LX Gyger 2 on aluminum and Audio Technica AT33PTG/2 MicroLinear on Boron. (they both use the same loading on the SUT as well).

And, a few MM cartridges mounted in headshells, Shure V15VxMR body with Jico SAS on Boron; AT440ml MicroLine on aluminum. And, my Elliptical: Shure M97xe aging somewhere, or did I give it to my photo friend Bill with my old AT120 TT? (he lives in Vestal NY near McIntosh and Audio Classics). I digress.

.............................

Platter Mat:

After preliminary decisions, I'm also gonna mess this up with alternate platter mats:

1. Existing OEM JVC thick heavy rubber mat
2. Rigid Acrylic
3. Deerskin

With and without the JVC rubber below. Acos solving height changes instantly!

Enabler Quote:

" The material is similar to a good gasket material, flexible and robust."

Who laughed disparagingly at my idea of digging out my sheet of gasket material for a home made try? I can try one or a few layers.
.......................................

VTA Refinement

If VTA needs refinement in an arm with no adjustment, I would NOT rely on one side tighter: rather very thin sheets of rigid material on one side, like clear rigid plastic page protectors, cut your own rectangular shape, make notches for bolts. Enough layers to solve it: very tedious, dexterity needed. I like more surface area than round washers.

Hint: I stay calmer when I don't have an audience, otherwise I misbehave seeking sympathy rather than dealing with it.

Then, if using an Enabler type, a material with designed vibration dissipation, I would want firm tightness on both sides.

For only a $40 investment, I bought the Enabler for my $5k turntable with a $4k Soundsmith Paua cartridge. It works and work well. I found it to provide more focus and control without losing any soundstage. It also minimized any thumping going through my speakers when tapping on the plinth with volume cranked. I was convinced enough of its Audible benefits, that I bought another one for my wife’s $1600 tt with a Hana MH MC cartridge. Results were also immediately noticeable for the good on that tt too. I also like the bonus of being able to tweak the tonearm azimuth when using the Enabler.

There are Head Shells available from very reputable Brands with R&D backing their deigns being marketed.
Magnesium Metal milled on the Top Face to receive a damping material is a Head Shell Design that I use.
I am wondering if the Cartridge Separator as a Interface is a lead on from this type of design philosophy.
I am quite familiar with the offerings from Japan and am not aware of a Separator Material being offered by the Brands that I follow.
Is this something that has been missed by them in their R&D, or is this something that they are not able to add any value to their design intent by going down this road ?  

The Separator Devices usually seem to appear on a sales list from fringe Companies offering accessories, and usually at quite High Prices.

I know the exact same material offered by the Cartridge Man was available in Australia for about 70% less ? than the UK price. 

The Houdini Separator entered the Market with a mixed response, and the time spent undertaking Searches and Investigations of the reports are showing that in general it is not always seen to be the ideal interface, and in some cases even though given an approval on initial use, after extended use and trials, it has not been a keeper device for the user.

Possibly a more secure purchase and one that might prove to be a device that commands a long term usage of the device, might be discovered in trying a selection of different Head Shell Materials.
At the least these devices are very saleable once used, and can be discovered as a used sale for a reasonable outlay.
I have sold Head Shells within a few hours of their being advertised without any need to arrange a Sale Price with the buyer.

As said previously a lot of change to the presentation and sound quality is available to be had with a Platter Mat Change.
IME I am still coming to terms with how a 5mm Forex Foam mat that cost approx $12 is my mat of choice for most listening and is against competitors up to $450.
A Forum Member has took the initiative and purchased a Forex Foam Mat and they have recently informed me their Tenuto Mat is resting up on the Album Stack, they are in no rush to reinstate it.      

1. 
   

"If the cartridge is also suspended, would that not remove the accuracy/immediacy/directness of the transfer of energy - as the place where that energy should go, would be damped. In being damped, seems like the energy transfer would be reduced."
My thinking exactly, sure it will sound different but different in this case won’t be better. What’s the point in buying a great tonearm if the cartridge is only attached loosely, taped to a piece of sponge type material. BillWojo

So many interesting points.

Question, is it not the job of the cantilever to function as suspension along with transferring the vibrations to the motor of the cartridge?

In which case, shouldnt it be the only thing that is vibrating/moving?

If the cartridge is also suspended, would that not remove the accuracy/immediacy/directness of the transfer of energy - as the place where that energy should go, would be damped. In being damped, seems like the energy transfer would be reduced.

Will do @dinov

MC, It's interesting that you quote Isaac Newton's laws, call people "Einstein" as a form of sarcastic insult to indicate he or she is not brilliant, and use a famous photo of Einstein as your icon.  Yet it was Einstein who displaced Newton's Laws with his Theory of Relativity. Go figure.

It’s about Jitter getting into the tonearm and back into the cartridge isn’t it?

It’s about less rigid fastening of the cartridge body, no matter how thin, to the arm isn’t it? This UGLY thing is quite thick.

And, the reviewer (not the isolator’s maker) mentioned a less rigid fastening of the tonearm base to the plinth, a double whammy of some, even if infinitesimal, movement.

Jitter into/back out of the arm, if acknowledged, is unwanted movement, sooooo, isolate from jitter? a speck of isolation (movement) reduces the jitter going/thus reduces the jitter feedback?

That's what makes the Strain-Gauge, supposedly essentially Jitter Free so tempting to me.

By Jove I think he's got it!  

Sounds like you've been watching Ledermann and know the importance of lowering moving mass. Soundsmith MI carts have much lower moving mass than MC, and strain gauge has even less moving mass than MI. This is huge, and has a lot to do with the outstanding performance. If you read the reviews SG1 is cost no object performance for what works out to be quite reasonably attainable cost.  

This still leaves the question of cartridge vibration control. Always prefer vibration control as more precise than isolation. There is no true isolation ever, but we can tune frequency and amplitude, and this is vibration control. 

With the cartridge we want some combination of materials structured so as to hold the cartridge firmly in a fixed relationship to the head shell, and yet at the same time have just enough flexibility on a micro level to dissipate cartridge vibration and not reflect it all right back down into the stylus.   

lewm, now I know it's Lew M

That was funny, give my apologies to the wife.

great find Bill.

same site, variation: added property: static-dissipative

https://www.zotefoams.com/product/azote/plastazote/

https://www.zotefoams.com/product/azote/evazote/1st thing that comes up when I google "closed cell, crosslinked ethylene copolymer" as taken from The Cartridge Mans website. Used in sporting goods.
Anyway, I subscribe to the closed loop philosophy of tying the cartridge to the tonearm to the platter spindle. Any movement or damping of movement between the two will result in an inaccurate reading of the record grooves. Will it sound different? I'm sure but lots of things can make your music sound different, doesn't necessary mean it's better and in almost all cases it isn't.
BillWojo

Elliot, I am still stewing, because you said “Lew’s thing is ugly”. My wife refuses to comment.

The ugly truth is none of us understands the physics well enough to judge the Enabler out of context, where context is one’s own ears and one’s own audio system. My hunch is that results will vary according to cartridge construction and compliance, headshell composition, tonearm damping, effective mass, and bearing stability, etc. So insults and invective have no place in this discussion. If you’re interested, give it a shot and report back here stating the cartridge and tonearm you use, at minimum. Saying “I loved it”, or “I hated it”, doesn’t help.

CARTRIDGE ISOLATOR it’s called.

Plinth and Base Isolation put to the side for this:
Jitter within the cartridge’s guts, down the signal wires, put to the side for this:

It’s about Jitter getting into the tonearm and back into the cartridge isn’t it?

It’s about less rigid fastening of the cartridge body, no matter how thin, to the arm isn’t it? This UGLY thing is quite thick.

And, the reviewer (not the isolator’s maker) mentioned a less rigid fastening of the tonearm base to the plinth, a double whammy of some, even if infinitesimal, movement.

Jitter into/back out of the arm, if acknowledged, is unwanted movement, sooooo, isolate from jitter? a speck of isolation (movement) reduces the jitter going/thus reduces the jitter feedback?

That's what makes the Strain-Gauge, supposedly essentially Jitter Free so tempting to me.

I'm sure Lewm and Atmasphere shed some light on this.

Cartridge isolation is very important but at what level? This is not difficult at all. The cartridge has to maintain a fixed orientation to the record. ANYTHING that corrupts that relationship like unipivot arms is bad. So the solution is, you isolate the entire turntable or rather the chassis that carries the tonearm and platter. This is the rational behind suspended turntables. They keep the environment from interfering with the cartridge without further corrupting the relationship of the cartridge to the record.
This cartridge isolation pad is beyond silly. What it does is dependent on the surface area of contact as well as the tightness of the screws, two variables that can not be easily controlled not to mention it corrupts that relationship. 

Houdini I mean. 

I was wondering about the Houdini @slaw , let us know how that works. I just gut thru putting the funk firm mat on one of my tables. It’s is so good I bought another for my vpi. If the housing is as good at the mat. I’m in. 

FWIW, I've used a small amount of blue tac between my cartridge & arm for a few years now & enjoy the added clarity that provides. Still clamp the cartridge down with the screws so it is absolutely solid.  

Just ordered a Houdini
I’ve always been a believer in trying out for yourself.
All this discourse means nothing.

The compliance of a tonearm is what it is - even it's a Enterprise MkIV.  It's a basic fact that high compliance cartridges work better in a low mass arm; medium compliance cartridges work best in a medium mass arm;  and low compliance cartridges work best in a high mass arm.  You can change the mass of a tonearm by changing the headshell.  This is EXACTLY why Origin Live offers multiple headshell weights for the  Enterprise MkIV (2,5, and 10 grams).  These options are available specifically for compliance matching.  While some tonearms do a better job than others building in design features that minimize the potential for unwanted resonances due to compliance, no tonearm is immune - including yours MC - just ask Origin Live.

Again, either all vibrations matter or they don't.  Enjoy your cherry picking  and please stop instructing people to ignore what other posters say - we are all free to read and ignore what we choose based solely on the merits of what is being said.   

Of course, that will lead to what Tonearm?

Origin Live Conqueror, or Enterprise. I had the old Conqueror MkIII and now have Enterprise MkIV. These are awesome arms! Among the many great features are the hard-wired phono leads. I’ve had both and there is no doubt all the extra connections of an interconnect is not good. Also the quality needed at this level costs a small fortune. Whatever you do go with an arm with integral leads.

Please ignore the gnats. Any time you see someone twisting things around or even making stuff up out of whole cloth that is a sure sign of a weak mind and even weaker argument. Ignore them.

The truth is when using a properly designed tone arm then compliance and other cartridge matching becomes moot. Therefore, whenever you see someone stressing the importance of understanding compliance, mass, etc and talking about matching what you do is make note of which arm they are talking about and cross it off your list.

Then if you really want to save a lot of time and effort do the same for the person telling you how absolutely essential these things are. All you have to do is look at my system, read the listener comments, or heck even come and hear for yourself to get it.

There very well could be benefits to limiting vibrations through cartridge isolation. I’m not sure this should be categorically dismissed as snake oil. What I was reacting to incredulously is how MC believes that addressing these types of vibrations is important while also asserting that vibrations caused by poor tonearm/cart matching can be ignored.

Even his audio heros over at Soundsmith believe compliance matching is important - because vibrations are indeed harmful to sonics.

https://www.sound-smith.com/articles/how-choose-cartridge

Meanwhile MC rants about why anyone should worry about compliance. Apparently F=ma only when convenient to MC.

https://i.postimg.cc/t70jjFHV/MC.jpg

As Emerson once said: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds..."

I have an Enabler in house, haven't used it yet. I understand everyone's argument for and against. There's many positive reviews. Heard of Funk Firm Houdini? The designer says it's his most important achievement yet. Thinking about getting one to compare with the Enabler.

millercarbon

aside from full understanding of the ugly thing, it's ability to dissipate Jitter without being considered Soft:

I thank, and not thank you, for the link and my learning about the essentially Jitter Free Strain-Guage Cartridges. Maybe I'll spend that much for my 75th Birthday in 2 years. Of course, that will lead to what Tonearm?

I found these Strain-Gauge discussions here:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/live-concerts-and-studio-sessions-despite-covid-soundsmith-st...

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/anyone-have-experience-with-soundsmith-s-strain-gauge?highlig...

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/live-concerts-and-studio-sessions-despite-covid-soundsmith-st...

2pm, time for breakfast,

Elliott

I gather you do not advocate adding a soft layer under the tonearm base, or adding a soft layer above any cartridge, correct?

Nor do I. So what happens around here over and over again, someone says something perfectly clear and uncontroversial, then someone else comes along twists it around to resemble nothing even close and fifteen immediately parrot the distortion. Here is what I actually said:

The cartridge however is very low mass and has to track a violently undulating groove. It cannot just be free to move. It must be held rigidly, but yet also in a way that facilitates some vibration to dissipate into the more massive arm, while damping cartridge vibration, and all of this at the same time as not reflecting vibration right back down into the stylus.

The Cartridge Enabler is not soft. Went out of my way to make clear it is not felt. Not soft. Engineered material. Not at all what people are talking about.

atmasphere,

" If the arm tube is not damped you're going to have problems!"

I found this, makes my head spin, especially with short term memory issues.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tonearm-damping-damped-or-not-useless-welcomed

Are these two arms (rigidly mounted to my rigid plinth) considered Damped?

My 12.5" long one, Gimbal Type (not quick change cartridge). Carbon Arm

http://newartvinyl.ru/board/detali_proigryvatelja/tonarm_black_bird12_5_carbon/7-1-0-41

NewArtVinyl says:

• Tonearm - 12.5-inch, straight, swivel; gimbal type with internal stabilization according to the Gimbal principle, anti-skating system.

I also have a 9" Acos Lustre GST 801, Dynamic Balance, magnets for stylus force and anti-skate, removable headshell. Precision machined base has wonderful VTA on the Fly.

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/acos/lustre-gst-801.shtml

My old SME 3009, Knife Edge, Damped?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203593495169?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=533...

.......................................

In any case, I gather you do not advocate adding a soft layer under the tonearm base, or adding a soft layer above any cartridge, correct?

IOW, these 'soft' treatments can only be an improvement if they are solving a problem that could/should be otherwise avoided/eliminated, correct?

Thanks OP, good to see a few decent earnest audiophiles still around here.

Ledermann’s Strain Gauge is good enough it more than likely will be next for me. There are not a lot of reviews but search around, they are there, and the consensus is the SG1 is right up there with the world’s best cost no object cartridges. We are talking $10k and up carts. At this level of course you are using a $10k and up phono stage. One review if I remember right was $30k or more of cart and stage and the SG1 was right there.

This is with the stock power supply. There are gains to be made upgrading the power supply. Not that it is needed, but nice to know. Combine with being able to buy extra stylus/cantilever for dirt cheap, user-replaceable no less, it makes the SG1 about as much of a stone bargain no-brainer as can be.

What makes it especially attractive for me is since it eliminates the need for a phono stage then selling the Herron the SG1 nets out to a very reasonable upgrade cost especially considering it should be like going from entry level Koetsu to their finest for only about $5k. Can hardly say no to that.

Everything vibrates. If the cartridge is rigidly attached to the head shell then this vibration travels through the head shell into the arm tube and so on, with the result the whole thing is vibrating. There are plenty of Peter Ledermann videos you can watch if you want to learn how big a problem this is.

Interesting reading this from a guy who in the past has been completely dismissive of cart/tonearm compliance matching.  Perhaps he's coming around?

millercarbon,

thanks for the link to the Peter Ledermann Video. 

I encourage everyone to find an hour to view it, link repeated:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmwnN_T_wW8&t=1200s

Makes me want to run right out, rob a bank, buy his best Strain-Gauge Cartridge.

https://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/strain-gauge-systems/strain-gauge-systems

Have you or anyone tried one?

Putting a Isolator between the Cartridge and Head Shell serves one purpose IMV, it can change the perception of the presentation for the listener who is quite familiar with a Systems SQ.
The user of the Isolator is in their assessment liking the perception of the sound now being delivered or they are not.

It is possible for myself to change a perception of the sound in my system in a much easier method and that is to exchange Platter Mats.

The Science is the same as it is quite basic, the new material at the interface, either stimulates an individual and it becomes likeable or it does not.

Platter Mats are much easier to swap out than Head Shell Isolators.
The two methods probably share a requirement where the VTA might still need to be adjusted to get the full impact of the changes being made.   

Until it turned out my Origin Live Conqueror did sound better just sitting in the hole 

Yes, Einstein, thats what happens when you have a poorly designed arm with rattly bearings or poorly designed home brew TT that fails to deal with the cartridge vibrations that you talk about.

Atmasphere is absolutely correct - compromise loop rigidity between the cartridge arm platter and you cant measure the groove accurately.

If you are having probems with that then get a better TT and arm.

for the stylus to read the groove "successfully" the whole system of..........floor, rack, shelf, plinth, platter, tonearm base, bearing, arm wand, cartridge plate, and screws need to be tuned together. each step has to be right......if one step is wrong, then things are off.

what is ’right’? i’ve not seen high end quality cartridges designed to be loose on an arm. not saying it can’t be that way, just never seen it with over 10 turntables, 20 arms, and 30+ cartridges over 30 years.

the best performing systems are solid where they are designed to be solid, and agile and resonance minimizing where they need to do that.

some cartridges even perform better with cartridge screws torqued to a particular spec. i could totally understand that. i recall when Joel Durand was in the early stages of designing his tonearms and he would bring them over to my room to test, he experimented with a number of headshell/cartridge mounting materials and methods. never was ’loose’ or "cushioned" a part of them.

throwing damping products at cartridge mounts is not a direction i see as productive. but might some situation benefit? i suppose i have to keep my mind open. but my sense is that sort of approach is a band aid for some issue elsewhere in the system.....or flaw/compromise in the cartridge, tonearm or turntable design.

millercarbon

there's no need for you to take every opportunity to prove ....

I was letting you know my plinth is solid, and currently nothing else (above the cartridge, or under the tonearm base) is moving. You knew what my point was.

I agree with Chakster, Lew's thing is UGLY!!! And too thick!

I'm also wondering about the adhesive sheets that sound proofing car audio installers use inside door cavities.

What part of f=ma do you need help with?