From my experiences, yes, silver can accentuate brightness. I have found that silver clad copper seems to accentuate this issue even more. However, if your system already leans towards the bright side, you may be better off with copper. |
I want to love silver interconnects. I really do. In my system every pair of silver interconnects I auditioned provided an astounding degree of precision, speed and detail when compared to copper cables. I loved it, I loved hearing details in recordings which, while inferred, were not as well presented with copper But, what I also had to accept was a degree of brightness which made me feel that the sound was thinner overall and, most importantly, sometimes difficult to listen to for long periods. I felt the silver cables I've auditioned didn't provide the sensation of enveloping warmth I like when I feel surrounded by what I am listening to. I found it strange too since my rig, with the exception of the CDP, is all tubed. That said, it's really up to your ears. If you think it sounds too bright....it's too bright. And I think it probably unfair at some level to say that "silver does this" and "copper does that". In my audio travels, in my system, I found both silver and copper interconnects which played poorly to my ears. My advice is just keep auditioning different cables and pay no attention to what manufacturer's, reviewers and salesmen say. You will find a set (or two, or three) that will make you smile. |
Look at Purist wonderful natural sound. |
I'm convinced it just shows up the inherent brightness of one's system.
May add a bit, but not much. |
I agree with Schubert, good quality silver just reflects the inherent character of your system/components. All silver cables aren't the same, in fact there's a broad range amongst them IMO.My current silver cables are open,resolving and transparent. They happen to be the most natural sounding cables I've had so far. Beautiful warmth,tone, harmonic color and instrumental fullness/body.No edge,brightness or harshness. So it just depends on which cable and in what particular system. |
Tubes got the reputation of being mellow from the Dynaco ST-70 days which rolled off highs and used the smooth EL-34 tubes.
I've heard and had a few 6550 amps that were quite bright.
I believe today if you want a good tube amp those is no road but the SET 300B route and the best 300B's available, which are NOT cheap, which is why I don't have one. |
No,silver interconnect can not add brightness in your gear. Most silver cables on the other hand have had greater bass, mid and treble extension.
I replaced with all solid core silver cables to my system, the extension and image was amazing. |
True, Beewax , many mistake extension for brightness. |
I believe Jerrott has given you sound advice that closely aligns what my personal quest has revealed! |
A properly designed cable with unplated pure silver wire is very resolving but not really brighter. I have listened to many silver cables over the years and the sonic result does vary. Typically SPC wire in heavy dielectrics can be rather screechy sounding. |
Whatever the component; the better(more transparent) it is, the more it will reveal weaknesses(such as excessive brightness) upstream of it. |
12-24-14: Rodman99999
Whatever the component; the better(more transparent) it is, the more it will reveal weaknesses(such as excessive brightness) upstream of it. That goes all the way back to the original recording, which in many cases, might well be unlistenable. Transparency is not necessarily better, otherwise we wouldn't need clothing, gloves, air fresheners, copper, etc. Some things just are better off not being seen, smelt, touched or heard. ;^) |
I would recommend Ocellia Reference silver cables. You will got one of the most butiful sounding cables at acceptable price. No hint of brightness. Spees, presision and natural tones. Have had a lot of cables, but like Ocellia most. |
Millmetr,
I've used the Ocellia IC and SC the past 3 years and will keep them for many more years.They are utterly organic and wonderful. |
@Mr J- Absolutely(on all counts)! |
Sonic_genius,
+1.
Beewax,
That could very well be because silver can transfer more signal compared to copper. My observations matches yours to the T. |
...silver can transfer more signal compared to copper With due respect, that is a common misconception. I suspect it originated as a result of misinterpretations of the fact that silver is a slightly better conductor (i.e., has slightly lower resistance) than copper, assuming equal gauges and lengths. With marketing literature written by technically misinformed or insincere people perhaps also being a contributing factor. Keep in mind that a copper cable will have considerably less resistance than a silver cable of equal length if the copper conductors are simply made one gauge size larger. Also keep in mind that a copper cable will have less resistance than an identically designed silver cable if the copper cable is shorter than the silver cable by more than about 8%. Also keep in mind that the effects of a cable's resistance are dependent on the relation between that resistance and the impedances of what it is connecting. Under any reasonable circumstances the resistance of an analog interconnect cable will therefore be of no significance. And the difference in resistance between silver and copper will almost certainly not matter in the case of a speaker cable either, unless perhaps to a very slight degree if the impedance of the speaker is low and the cable length is long and the gauges of the cables being compared are both equal and narrow. I don't doubt that silver cables tend to sound different than copper cables that are otherwise identical, but contrary to popular belief differences in their resistance and conductance are not the reason, under nearly all circumstances. And, again with respect, references that are sometimes seen to silver being able to "transfer more signal," or being able to transfer "more information," are statements that have no meaning. Regards, -- Al |
Al,
Thank You for the information. I was not aware of this and had only read about it on the net. |
Hello Al,
I agree that the often touted "lower resistance" of silver in reality/practical terms is negligible. I do however find that for what ever reason high quality silver just sounds better than equal quality copper. This is based purely on personal listening experiences and isn't scientific by any means. I can't explain it but I certainly hear it. Silver consistently sounds more natural and has less coloration, in other words more pure sounding. |
12-25-14: Charles1dad
I do however find that for what ever reason high quality silver just sounds better than equal quality copper. Charles, your forgot one very critical point, adding IMHO. From my experiences, I have found that silver can sound better than copper, gold, or palladium, in certain systems, with certain equipment. Equipment, like cables, have certain sonic signatures. I have found that silver works better with equipment that is more musical, while copper or gold may work better with equipment that is more revealing. Bottom line, there are many ways to achieve sonic nirvana. Some like revealing cables with musical gear, while others like revealing gear with musical cables. Obviously there are even those who like (or think they like) musical gear with musical cables and/or revealing gear with revealing cables. I add think they like because I do know of some who swear that their gear and cables are both revealing or musical, and my experiences with their gear or cables with other gear or cables leads me to believe otherwise. For me, this lesson was driven home years ago when I first bought my Parsifal Encores. After a couple of demos at the dealer, I fell in love with them and bought a pair. Up until this point, I had tried silver cables a few times with no success. When I first hooked the Parsifals up in my room to my copper cables, I was very disappointed. The sound was dull and lifeless. Two days moving speakers around did not help at all. I called my dealer and told him of my problems. I knew he was running BAT tube gear, which I also had at the time, it was then that he told me he was running all silver cables. I switched to silver and viola, everything fell into place, the system sounded wonderful again. I lived with the Parsifals for 6 years, and always used silver cables. At this point in time I do not believe that silver is any better sounding than copper though. It can be with the right equipment. However, copper can also sound better than silver with the right equipment. Another variable is implementation, not all silver, or all copper being equal. I would like to try Ocellia cables one day, Onda is another one on the list. Too many toys, not enough time or money. I did just pick up a pair of Amadi Cable Maddie Signature interconnects that Bill (Grannyring) is always raving about. I haven't had them long enough to form an opinion yet though. Currently, I am using gold (KCI Silkworm+)ic's, silver and copper (Stealth Hybrid MLT) sc's. I've found that I can live with silver mixed with copper, as long as both are separate solid core conductors. I do not care for plated versions, but I do know folks who do. That is why they make so many different flavors. As always, this is IMHO, obviously YMMV. The only way to know for sure what works best for you is to try the cables in your own system. Just as no one can tell you which ice cream flavor you will like best, no one can tell you what conductor or cable you will like best. There are no shortcuts, to find the truth, you have to do your own homework. I'll also add that one change can change everything. Change an amp, speakers, etc., and you may well find yourself re-wiring the whole system again. This does not include those that build their systems around their cables though. Yes some folks love their cables so much that they will change equipment to suit their cables instead of changing cables to suit their equipment, but that is another thread entirely. Cheers, John |
Hi John,
I don't disagree with one word you have written. When I post my thoughts and opinions I try to make it clear that they are"personal" observations(John I stated personal experience rather than IMHO in my post above, same meaning). There's no intention to make my impressions all encompassing and universal for all, no way. I'll never hear more than a small(tiny) fraction of the many cables available. Even if somehow I did hear them all it wouldn't matter. It you change 1 or 2 aspects of your system, the pecking order of the favorite cables will ineviably change. There are simply too many variables involved to declare any cable (component, speaker, anything) the "best" choice for everyone in all situations.
I enjoy participating in what I find to be interesting forum threads and sharing my 2 cents worth of personal listening experiences. It doesn't extend beyond that level of magnitude for me. All I simply meant to express here is that silver cables have been a major success in my audio system as currently configured. Silver+DHT tubed components+ efficient speakers= pure musical joy and realism, I'm very happy. John, by the way I always enjoy reading your comments on this site.
Best Regards,
Charles. |
Great thread! Good information, honest and wise opinions, and very respectful discussion.
Hope all are having a wonderful Holiday . |
Charles, I understand what you are saying, and I always enjoy reading your posts as well. You system certainly looks very well put together, I'd certainly love to give it a listen (though I would probably add a turntable). ;^)
Happy Holidays, and a happy and safe new year to all!!
Cheers,
John |
I have doen thousends of tests with cables in over 16 years of
time. Every single silver cable can be a lot different. Silver
in general is more open than copper. But....copper is still
more involving in sound in most other situations.
But there are also silver cables which sound a lot more
involving than other silver cables. The quality of the silver
has an important influence on how the cable will sound in the
mid and high freq. Also the technique behind the cabel has a
big influence on how it sounds.
These days I sell a lot Audioquest cables. For example the
'old' Niagara was a lot more involving in the mid freq.
compared to the Sky interconnect.
The New Wild and new Wel Signature are silver cables which
bring music to a much higher level.
I owned the Wild and now use the Wel Signature cables. I can
tell you that the blacklevel and letting you hear the
differences in height is really impressive.
The Wel Signature thought me many new things of recordings I
thought I knew well. The exitement of listening to music is of
another level. These parts are very addictive and you cannot
create them with amps and sources which would cost even twice
the price.
When I compare the best silver highend cabels against the best
copper you understand that silver has a very important benefit
against copper. In my world copper cannot create that level I
want and need I have at this moment.
Instruments are so much shaper physical apparent, but also the
difference in height of percussion is a lot better
auditionable. There is a lot more details and air in the high
freq. I did win many battles in the last 2 years with
Audioquest silver interconnects against copper cables of
competitors. It is very easy to let people hear what it gives
you extra and why it is better than copper.
I had a few discussions with Audioquest to let people hear
these differences at shows. So it will be more easy to
understand what it does and bring.
At the end you listen to all parts togheter in your set. This
means that every single tool ( amp, cable, conditioner, source
and speaker) togheter including the acoustic of te room is
what you hear. Even when silver can brighten the overall
sound, the properties of a source, amp or speaker is even very
important. There will be enough situations you cannot use
silver. But it says a lot about the other parts in your set
why you cannot use them. |
Whenever I buy cables, they're always of the same length, be it ICs (one meter) or SCs (8'). Regardless of components, it was a toss up between silver and copper until I got the Darwin Silver ICs and Tempo Electric SCs.
Going back and forth with my old stock does nothing but strengthen my belief that I need not look any further unless I go up a step or two with the Darwin brand: they're that good.
All of this is in the context of my system and contributes nothing of value that hasn't been gone over before but what the heck. :-)
Happy Holidays everyone!
All the best,
Nonoise |
If its bright stay away from silver copper is the way to go. |
John,
Thanks for your kind comments. I wish you and your family a very happy holiday season as well. |
John, the IC's are good and for the money a great buy. The speaker cables are the real game changers however. They are the pick of the Amadi litter!
You must try these as Phil will work with you on a trial. They are the best I have heard. I think he uses 5 runs of 22 or 24 gauge, soft annealed silver per run. Wow! Unheard of for the money. |
12-25-14: Grannyring
John, the IC's are good and for the money a great buy. The speaker cables are the real game changers however. They are the pick of the Amadi litter!
You must try these as Phil will work with you on a trial. They are the best I have heard. I think he uses 5 runs of 22 or 24 gauge, soft annealed silver per run. Wow! Unheard of for the money. Groan.... LOL!! Too many toys not enough time/money. I haven't even burned in the ic's yet, and I have two more pairs of ic's from different companies inbound, and all the while I am supposed to be looking for speakers. Now I need to try the speaker cables too??? I'm sure I will get around to it eventually, thanks for the advice Bill. I don't see it happening too soon though. BTW, have you heard the Ocellia or Onda cables? Happy Holidays, John |
Silver ICs can definitely sound unwarm/whitish/unanalogue/digital, but well designed Silver ICs, whether RCA/XLR, can sound warm/analogue/vinyl with more resolution/detail than Copper ICs :)
Well designed Silver/Copper ICs can also can sound warm/analogue/vinyl with more resolution/detail than Copper ICs and perhaps as much and even more than Silver ICs :)
Well designed Silver plated Copper ICs can also can sound warm/analogue/vinyl with more resolution/detail than Copper ICs and perhaps as much and even more than Silver ICs :) |
I have not, but they are far, far more money. Ya, you have enough going on right now. Looking for speakers? Great fun! Enjoy. |
No,silver interconnect can not add brightness in your gear. Most silver cables on the other hand have had greater bass, mid and treble extension.
I replaced with all solid core silver cables to my system, the extension and image was amazing. Exactly. I get the impression that quite a few audiophiles don't like full frequency extension. Silver is really the way to go if you crave detail and dynamics. |
I agree, when you want to go for the best results in audio,
silver is an essential part.
Even the best copper cables cannot give you this quality. I
like things to proof. You need battles to convince people. In
the last few years I did win many audio battles with silver
cables against copper.
People choose for better bass, opener mid en more details. But
that are not the only benefits. Instruments are so much
sharper focussed. There is also more air and decay.
The only benefit I could find about copper is that the mid
freq. is warmer and never harsness in the high freq. What I
have noticed in all the years that I work in this business is
that many people only focus on one or only a few parts you
judge a system for/ At one time.
For a few months I use 2 sets of the latest Audioquest Wel
Signature XLR cables. They brought me to a new level of
listening to music. I have done thousends of tests with cables
in almost 17 years of time. But I never autioned cables which
could separate instruments ans voices this good. I never could
listen to 2nd and 3th voices of a recording this easy. I never
auditioned an interconnect what could let me hear all the
differences in height of recordings this easy and clear.
I understand that people choose for copper instead of silver.
It says a lot about the tools they use in their system. When
you use speakers with older tweeters or tweeters which do not
go further than 20.000 hz silver can cause earlier problems in
the mid and high freq. When you use speakers which can go to
40.000 hz or even above 100.000 the difficulties in the mid
and high freq are a lot less.
For me as a perfectionist you always aim to the best. This
part never stops. I am addicted to test and compare. Because
you love to get a higher endresult all the time.
In my world silver is an essential part for the absolute
sound. I can demo that I can outperform many highend sets on
all parts you judge a system for. Without silver I never could
reach this level I have at this moment. For me it is that
simple and clear.
Beside this I understand that silver does not always works in
every system. Those people need to audition more different
parts to find out why it does not work in their system. At the
end with silver you come closer to the absolute sound! |
Well said, Bo. My next speaker cable purchase will be silver. I can't wait! :D |
Zyac started this thread and hasn't bothered to respond. He started the same thread here: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=36329
I'm not sure why guys do this, but whatever. |
