Calling all Sota fans.

People can read his BIO here

Personally if you are in the US I think they are a great buy, and very good, much better than any of the VPI's.
I had the Vacuum Sota/ET2 combo in the late 80's - and I'd buy another today. Its only really been beaten by my Final Audio VTT1 which was 50% more expensive than the top of the line Micro Seiki SX8000 back in the 70's early 80's - and slaughters them.
The Sota's do have some limits on arms that can be fitted due to the recessed armboard, but in terms of sound quality as good as any of the ones you mentioned apart from the Techdas, which is obviously a lot more expensive.
Support is excellent in the US, and they offer full refurbishment and updates on all products made.
The money spot for me is the non-vacuum Cosmos. I'm a bit wary of vacuum holddown damaging records and prefer a clamp system.
I've met Mark Dohmann - he's had a lot of TT's including Garrard 301's etc that he has fettled, so he's pretty knowledgeable.

Love my Sota and the plant is just up the road in Delevan.

I use a SOTA Cosmos Eclipse and have a SME V on it, it's a very capable table. 

Yes, SOTA’s are just that good. I may have my Sapphire for many years to come, albeit perhaps updated by SOTA to current specs. Someday.

I have a Sota Sapphire from 1984 that I regularly updated until about the turn of the century. I had a certain amount of troubles with it in the early days, but after a couple shaming letters to Sota in Berkeley (this was before email), they sent me a box to ship it back to Berkeley (or was it Oakland?). They completely rebuilt and updated the now groaning-at-every-revolution platter. They did not assign blame for the problem (which I repeatedly denied and am still certain I was not responsible for).  Later(?), they sent me a new drive belt to replace the one that was lending a bit of seasick-inducing wow. No problems since, and I have no zeal to replace it. Of course it didn't hurt when I replaced the Sumiko(?) arm with an Alphason.  

One thing worth mentioning is that many of the experiences posted above are based on the vintage tables originally produced in the 1980s and 90s, which are not representative of the current generation of tables. Over the years SOTA has undergone a steady change, and the current tables have a different designer who has brought a meaningful set of updates to the product line. 

The sapphire bearing has been replaced by a magnetic one, which moves a great bearing assembly forward to a world class one. The platter has been reformulated to have en less of an acoustic presence and the newer SOTA are more balanced tonally, the sub chassis are stiffer and more inert than previous designs, the vacuum module has a better control and monitoring system, the motor is DC with the Phoenix Engineering control system being integrated into the package, and the overall build internally is more precise and of higher quality. 

While the current SOTA models share similar if not the same names to the vintage tables, and have an appearance that looks to be the same, the tables have evolved into a world class product and the vintage tables while nice products are not really representative of the current generation offerings. 

Yes, the latest SOTA series Nova VI / Cosmos V / Millenia Eclipse have upgraded a LOT on the tech and materials. And of course, the vintage SOTA tables were built to be incredibly reliable and sound awesome for the money - plus there are a LOT out there on the market. Great way to start out in this hobby, which is what I did. 

I have an old Series III Sapphire (my first table) I later upgraded to Nova V. Wish I had waited until the current Series VI though - with eclipse package, magnetic bearing, and much more rigid sub-chassis. My Nova is in beautiful Koa wood (SOTA offers choices in exotic woods, which I highly recommend over standard finishes) - that's one thing to note about SOTA, they make a more "traditional" looking a table, complete with dustcover, and do it beautifully. If you're in the high end looking for a table that doesn't look like a spaceship or a science project, then it's going to hard to ignore SOTA Cosmos as probably your best option. 

The ability to completely hold down records with either a ring weight or vacuum hold (which SOTA and TechDas do) is a requirement for me in a high-end table; I don't understand high-end table owners who are OK without one of these. Beyond that and its new Phoenix based speed controller - no, the SOTAs can't compete on paper with all the whiz-bang gimmicks & exotic materials/build (and mass) of the $30K plus super-tables (up well over $100K now). But I also have a Clearaudio Innovation Master (my main table), and it's a bit "cleaner" and more detailed sounding but needs a LOT of isolation care compared to SOTA (in my case a CMS Maxxum Rack). Put a top notch arm & cartridge and phono stage on the little SOTA and...it's pretty darn close! If it was easier to move these around I'd probably swap back and forth. It's kind of fun seeing the old-world SOTA sitting on the high-tech rack!

I talked to Sota yesterday and they have alot of things in the works for their tables in the future. It looks like the company is moving in the right direction and will challenge the top designs available today for sound quality. It is great to see an American company challanging the best tables in the world.

I have stated on many occasions that the Dohmann Helix is my ultimate turntable. Mark Dohmann is an aero-space engineer and very much like Peter Ledermann. He is very approachable.  I have had several discussions with him asking about the Helix and additional upcoming features including vacuum clamping and a dust cover. I never asked which less expensive tables he liked but the Sota is no surprise. He is totally focused on isolation of the cartridge from extraneous vibration. His dust cover is going to be designed specifically to isolate the table from airborne vibration. Sota approaches all these factors albeit in a less ornate fashion and it is the only turntable to do so. 

@dover,  you can get around the recessed arm board by modifying the plinth cover. The real problem is weight. The suspension is adjustable within reason but there are limits and many tone arms, particularly with VTA towers are just too heavy. 12" arms need not apply. But, the Kuzma 4 Point 9,  the Schroder CB and I believe the Reed 2G will fit and these are excellent arms. The Tri Planer will fit with modification.

@neonknight , just a slight correction. The new motor is a 3 phase AC motor. All Sotas use an AC motor of some type.  

IMHO the Sota Cosmos Vacuum is the best turntable you can buy when you factor in cost. My completed Cosmos Vacuum with a Schroder CB arm cost me just shy of $14,000 including a dust cover and reflex clamp. The next turntable I would consider would be the SME 30/2, more than twice the cost. After the SME it's the Dohmann Helix 2. The Sota Cosmos Vacuum does everything the Techdas Air Force 1 does at 1/10 the cost. Perhaps it does not do everything quite as well but at 1/10 the cost I'll take the Sota thank you. The Sapphire remains the all time best value in a high performance table. 

Meantime, is SOTA actually back producing product? Mijostyn has been waiting many months for his Cosmos. No doubt they were negatively affected by the pandemic like many other small companies.

Mijo, You are correct in thinking that the Phoenix Engineering speed controller, which was adapted for use in the Eclipse option, sees the motor as a 3-phase AC synchronous device.  Yet both SOTA and Bill Carlin refer to the new Eclipse motor as a DC type.  I got hung up on the same question. 

mijostyn

I have stated on many occasions that the Dohmann Helix is my ultimate turntable.

Yes, but have you actually seen or heard one yet? Because without that, your enthusiasm and endorsement don't mean much.

My completed Cosmos Vacuum with a Schroder CB arm cost me just shy of $14,000 including a dust cover and reflex clamp.

Great news! I thought you were still waiting for delivery.

@lewm , I have no idea why. It is a 3 phase AC synchronous motor. Synchronous motors are best for turntables because they will automatically adjust torque to maintain the speed dictated by the AC signal they are given. It happens instantaneously. I suspect they are just miss-informed. 

Sota has been producing tables, but at a slower pace. They can't find help like the rest of us. People would rather stay home on unemployment comp. Of course those are the people you do not want to hire anyway.
My table is currently being built although I can't get an estimate out of Donna as to when it will be delivered. Can't wait, I have something like 20 new records to play!

@cleeds, I have seen a Helix but not heard one. I am very familiar with MinusK platforms. The Helix is a MinusK platform with turntable stuff mounted on top. My enthusiasm and endorsement is based purely on the Dohmann's design characteristics. It has or will have all of the features I care about in a turntable. Others may have different criteria or prefer taking advice from other people. 

Yes, finally. I put my deposit in 8 months ago and I sold my old Sota at about the same time. This is the longest period of time in my entire life from the age of 4 that I have not been able to play a record. Boggles the mind.

On this image we can see two partners. Who is Mr. Gusew ?

“Mark teamed up with a close friend who was highly skilled with electronics and who shared similar tastes in music and sound reproduction. Together they designed and built their first reference turntable called the “CONTINUUM” by Döhmann and Gusew.”

-from Döhmann BIO

* With surname like Gusew he must be Russian?

The first belt stretched out in a year or two. Then I figured to add a little manual spin boost before every play. Second belt +35 years.
Donna will probably be at Axpona.
It looks like they will have a room this year besides Expo Hall.

mijostyn

... I put my deposit in 8 months ago and I sold my old Sota at about the same time. This is the longest period of time in my entire life from the age of 4 that I have not been able to play a record.

Arrrrgh! I hope you get your new table soon, @mijostyn.

I have been a big SOTA fan since the launch of the Sapphire in the early 80’s. We were one of the initial dealers. A typical SOTA left the shop with a Sumiko or Souther arm and a Dynavector Ruby. My brother still runs the 1983 table w minimal adjustment and tuneups, it has a MMT with Ortofon Black MC… lovely still…

I bought several years ago  a Sapphire at auction from a widow. TT had at some point been dropped so it was shipped direct to Donna at SOTA for repairs and upgrades of which many ( mentioned above ) were possible. Replaced springs, bearing, upgraded motor ( should have bought Eclipse then, will do that soon ). Platter mat, new belt. I had the arm Sumiko FT-3 rebuilt and rewired w top Cardas by another vendor. I currently use a Hana ML until I sort out the upgrade path. Sonics are dark black background, excellent drive, speed stability/pitch good, the HANA is a polite MC.  I have a Brinkmann Bardo on HRS base w Triplaner and a Lyra, so no stranger to good sound. The SOTA represents superb vale, sonics and great service.
enjoy the music
Jim

Superb value

@tomic601

Yes it is Jim, and glad I took your advice and purchased my older SOTA Sapphire III. Could not be happier with it. Great recommendation and advice, and will always the thankful to your guidance.

Really, all things considered, zero issues with it compared to my old Kenwood table and inexpensive Pro-Ject that followed it getting back into vinyl after many many years. The SOTA beats the heck out of both.

@cleeds , Thanx. 

All you hear are glowing reviews from Sota Owners. Except from lewm,
He did not like his. I think it was a speed instability he did not like.

Here is a review on an updated Cosmos https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/sota-cosmos-eclipse-turntable/

The sota tables have survived the test of time which says a lot about their sound and quality because usually the life span for a company in the high end is ten years, but when a company makes it over forty years, that is saying something about the product.

I now know Sota tables are really good, so has anyone had a Kuzma, Techdas, Technics or TW Acustic table and sold or traded it for a Sota table because the Sota sounded better? that is the question I should have asked when I started this discussion. Tough question but if the Sota is better then the tables above the question needs to be asked.

Before I bought the Sota Cosmos I looked at several other tables carefully, Basis, SME and the Kuzma Ref2 and M. I would have like to have gotten a Schroder LT arm but it requires a table that can take a 12" arm. Sota's do not. I looked at the Kuzmas in detail and I have nothing bad to say about them. They appear well made. I could have gone for the M but I did not trust it's isolation and there was no way for me to test it in detail. I went for the Cosmos Vacuum and Schroder CB instead. The Basis and SME tables are IMHO overpriced. The Sota has a magnetic thrust bearing, vacuum clamping, a great drive system and a suspension I know works. It is also a joy to use. You don't have to be super careful around it. You can put your hand on while playing, even bang on it and you will hear nothing on your speakers. It has a friction hinged, isolated dust cover which you can close during play. For all the tables except the M I would have to make one.
It might just be that old people do not like change..........

...long ago, an ad pointed out that masters are cut tangentially....so it made perfect sense to play the lp the same way.

Not long after, I got to prove it to my own satisfaction.
Why complicate playback with issues of basic geometry?

Haven't owned a pivoted arm since an AR tt.....

Yes.  That long....;)

@garkat62 

I don't know if the analysis can be as simple as A>B>C or anything along those lines. When you get to upper tier tables and analog equipment in general my experience is they sound more similar than different as they succeed in removing so many causes of coloration that effects analog playback. The next thing that comes into play is that very few systems are set up with the exact same high end arms, cartridges, and phono stages so that only the drive unit can be isolated and evaluated. Couple that with the fact that certain arms, and therefore certain cartridges can shine on one type of table architecture but possibly not another. So how do you really create a level playing field to evaluate these tables?

The best most of us common people can hope for is a chance to hear an analog package that contains the table we are interested in, and have it in a quality system and make our mind up based on what we hear and what we need or appreciate in analog playback. 

For me the SOTA Cosmos Eclipse w a SME V and Transfiguration Audio Proteus is a fine analog playback system, one of the better ones I have heard. With that being said I also enjoy a Scheu Analog Das Laufwerke No 2, and that is a completely different design concept, yet performs at a similar level. 

At some point you have to make a choice based on what your preferences are and immerse yourself in the experience. 

I have had extensive listening experience with the Doehmann helix in the context of a very high end system that belonged to my neighbor. His phono stage was the Ypsilon plus either the Ypsilon SUT or an EMIA SUT.. Cartridges were top of the line Lyra. Schroeder tonearm. It was truly sublime. 

@garkat62,
While, not quite in the top $ sphere you're discussing, I did replace a Technics SP10mkII with EPA250 arm with a Sota Nova VI and an Audiomods Series V arm. The reason for the change was a cross-country relocation with a temp. housing period(no stereo) along the way. I preferred to sell the Technics to a local friend and regroup after getting resettled. 

When I was ready to make a purchase in the new locale, I shied away from another SP10, but not because I didn't love it's sound; I did. My concern was diligence and energy it would take to find a fair deal on one and the time/cost/trouble of getting it up to snuff and keeping it that way. 

After much consideration of many of the usual suspects, I decided the Nova 6 made sense for me for many of the reasons mentioned above: The proven vacuum hold-down & suspension, the mag bearing, the increased bracing and the Phoenix speed controller/tach offer a ton of performance for the money. By comparison the SME and Kuzma tables just didn't IMHO offer near the value. The 4point arm is still something on my wishlist! 

Now I know your next question is SP10mkII vs. Nova6 SQ. Unfortunately I couldn't compare them side by side, or with the same cart, phono stage, nor room. I can say that both are extremely satisfying with some pros/cons.

Sota: Set it and forget it. Takes 1-2 seconds to get up to speed. Tachometer confirms speed stability/accuracy...never a concern. Warped records are conquered. Impervious to footfalls and probably earthquakes. Beautiful wood cabinetry. Limited to tonearms ~10.5". Upgrade path for future improvements should be viable for many years. SQ is engaging, musical, with great tonality, pace, holographic and dynamic in my system.
Great, personal service from Donna & team at Sota.  

SP10mkII: Instant start/stop. With the obsidian plinth, looks okay, but not nearly as nice as with top after-market plinths available at considerable cost. EPA250 arm had fantastic SLR-like feel for VTA adjustment, superior usability to most modern arms. Removable headshell made for easy cart swapping...sonic impact can be debated elsewhere. High torque made for great rhythmic drive, some of that perception might have been placebo effect. Trouble potential for any future service needs was always a dark cloud over my shoulder. 

With the new Technics models, I read that the $4K model didn't compare to the SP10mkII, and the $10K model struck me as not great value, so neither got much consideration.  The SP-mkIII is still a wishlist item and might be the best value of them all if you found one well-restored by someone you trust. There's plenty of "IF"s there...

For your situation, I think you'll have to spend a fair amount more than the cost of the Cosmos to get something that has a chance to sound a tad better. You'll have to spend a great deal more to find something that betters the Sota's suspension and vacuum hold-down and sounds better. Also, don't forget the old coach's adage, "there's no ability greater than availability". Cheers,
Spencer

@sbank , @neonknight , You both have it exactly right. In order to get significantly better performance than a Cosmos Eclipse Vacuum you have to spend $72,000 on a Dohmann Helix and Schroder LT tonearm. This is the next step for me if the money becomes available. If not than I am not in what you would call a bad place.

@lewm, isn't that something! A turntable from a designer built on the concept that complete isolation is the key to the best high end turntable. 
I was itching to stretch for it but the vacuum system had not been completely designed, then Mark told me he was also working on a dust cover. I stepped back and figured I'd go for one once it had those two important issues settled. It was a good thing because COVID cut my income severely forcing me to spend reserves. 

Jerry - I think you missed that fitting tangential arms to the SOTA is possible and that many SOTA dealers were ET or Souther dealers. I prefer the ET2 on a vac hold down SOTA and will most likely head in that direction IF a nice ET2 comes my way…..

You both have it exactly right. In order to get significantly better performance than a Cosmos Eclipse Vacuum you have to spend $72,000 on a Dohmann Helix and Schroder LT tonearm. This is the next step for me if the money becomes available.

It's a bargain, go on 

To the OP when you get to systems of the caliber you mention, very very very few dealers display more than what they feels sounds best and loaning out is iffy with setup so conducting an A B trial at home will be a challenge…
Hope this helps.

what TT do you have now ?

On mijostyn advice I purchased a Cosmos with vacuum and had a Kuzma 4 point sent to Donna et al to fashion a board to fit…it did take a few months back in 2020 but well worth it…I am listening with a Clearaudio Jubilee and ARC 3 phono. I couldn’t be happier it’s solid as a vault and if a train drove through my house it would not affect the SOTA. So IMHO you can’t go wrong with a Cosmos but definitely include the vacuum…warping is a non issue. Donna Et al couldn’t have been more accommodating and can set up most anyway you need. 

Don’t you think that when Doehmann finally develops a vacuum hold down system, he will add $20,000 to the price? I do. You are probably looking at a $90,000 turntable with vacuum. By the way, when my friend decided to sell his helix, I could’ve purchased it for $25 or $30,000, but I declined, because I am quite happy with what I have.

Jay, where do you live? There’s a train coming through any minute now. Pop your fave LP on the old Cosmos and tell us how it all works.

Hi Lewn:
May I ask what turntable replaced the Dohmann in your friend's system?

Lewm the Chattanooga choo choo just rolled through…no problem but of course having a cement floor and cement pedestal doesn’t hurt 😎

My friend with the Doehmann sold it in favor of a major downsizing to his system, associated with moving to a smaller domicile.  He now uses hi-rez digital streaming exclusively.  Sold all his LPs, too, and gave me a few for free.  So in essence, nothing replaced the Doehmann.  This was a year or two ago.  Since then he bought a bigger house (now 40 miles away from me, in Baltimore) and seems to be sniffing around for a return to vinyl.  It's a long story, but I will respect his privacy.

Can't beat a cement floor; I agree, laid on bare earth.

@lewm , lewn, I like that :-)  It is Dohmann by the way not Doehmann.
Mark thinks that efficiencies in manufacture down in Australia will bring the price down enough that adding vacuum clamping and the dust cover will not add much. He is talking about $60,000, not chump change But, compared to other "ultimate" turntables, I could see myself doing this. There is no way I am going to buy an Air Force Zero. Mark has also become enamored with Schroder's LT arm and I believe he will be offering it with his tables. That arm is brilliant. It uses the friction of the stylus in the groove to drive the arm. 
A little hard to get back into it once you have sold all your records. 

jaym759, nice to hear from you again. I am glad you are enjoying your Cosmos. Donna has another customer who is thinking about putting a 4 Point 9 on a Cosmos. For some strange reason she wanted me to talk to him about it. He has an Origin Live arm which he was very unhappy with. Another story of poor customer support from Origin Live. Disappointing. They are not bad arms but this is the third or fourth sad example.

@chakster, A bargain? I would quantify it as financially irresponsible. IMHO, you have to be out of your mind to spend that much money on this antiquated format. But, what do I know. Unfortunately, I am just the type of silly person to do it.

Putting a straight line tracker on a suspended turntable is a bad idea. It will change it's level as the arm moves across the record. I have no idea how much but it will certainly change. 

I have no idea why. It is a 3 phase AC synchronous motor. Synchronous motors are best for turntables because they will automatically adjust torque to maintain the speed dictated by the AC signal they are given. It happens instantaneously. I suspect they are just miss-informed.

The SOTA motors are a BLDC type, also known as EC motors (electrically commutated).  These motors can be driven a number of ways.  They have 3 windings and hall sensors which can be used to signal the control circuitry when to commutate or switch the currents in the windings.  Only two of the 3 windings are driven at a time and the control circuitry can also change the polarity of the drive signal the same way a mechanical commutating ring changes current in a DC motor.  When driven this way, they behave very similar to DC motors where the DC current dictates the speed.  Without an external feedback loop, they will also exhibit poor speed stability, slowing down under load just as DC motors do. Besides poor speed stability, the motor can also exhibit increased vibration when driven this way.


If driven by 3 sinewaves, the motor behaves very similar to an AC synch motor where the frequency determines the motor speed rather than the drive level.  The drive level needs to be adjusted by the control circuitry as the speed changes to compensate for the change in back EMF in order to maintain torque and reduce vibration.  This is much more sophisticated than the simple block commutation controllers and is how the SOTA motors are driven.  It is rare to see this level of sophistication on tables under $20K.

Thanks for the info phoenixengr, I am looking hard at Sota tables and I am thinking I can save thousands and having sound comparable to much higher end tables in the process.