Cable elevators - conventional wisdom wrong?

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Today I replaced the 3 Shunyata Dark Field elevators with 2 CD cases under my speaker cables as suggested by Ted. I am using Tesla Apex cables.

All I can say is WOW!! The CD cases were much better sounding. The Dark Field elevators are dark sounding with a closed in high end and muted high end transients.

Ted, you never cease to amaze me!

Steve

CD cases are better..at least no blunting of transients or opaque artifacts.

OK, how do I set up these CD cases? In a t-pee position with cables on top balancing off the floor a few inches? OR am I placing the cables in the fold as if the case was open on the floor ready to put a CD back into it for storage. Anyone have a picture they can send me of how this looks? ...THANKS! Joe

Set the CD case as a t-pee and rest the cable on top. I ordered some Walpuna Sound wood risers to try.

Joeyboynj,
Splashkin's suggestion will work just fine. You may also want to simply lay your CD cases on their sides making the letter "V" (non tee pee, stable, and uniform height). Now simply lay your cables with at least 4 CD cases per 8ft run being careful not to let your speaker cables sag between CD cases while allowing them to orient themselves in such a way as to not force them into a position they do not naturally lie.

Yours in music,
Ted Denney III
Lead Designer, Synergistic Research Inc.

The CD cases do work! In fact, based on initial listening they offer the good improvements of the Dark Fields without the drawbacks i.e...blunting of transients, opacity and reduced dynamics. Instrument seperation is improved, definition is enhanced, the soundstage expanded and harmonics seem a little more natural.

Okay, if the CD cases work, the expense aside, would it stand to reason something like this would be a good option as well:

http://www.cabletower.com/

Something else positive I noticed was that the CD case risers create a bit of a tube like effect, in that individual notes are opened up more. Instrument sounds more rounded and dimensional while still retaining enough incisiveness to give a sense of believablility. This aspect of the CD elevation effect reminds me of the sound I had with my old Watt/Puppy 6's and an ARC VT100MKIII with an LS 25MKII preamp. Quite surprising:O)

Clio09, can you not use the cheap little cd boxes rather than jewel boxes? I don't like plastic risers but do wonder whether the type of plastic matters.

Today I replaced the CD cases with wood blocks. The wood sounded even better. The choice of riser will depend on your system and taste. I hope the myrtle wood risers I ordered come soon.

I would think this is more of an issue when it is dry and static is high than when the humidity is 40% above and only when in contact with a rug.

The clmate here is very dry where I live. Low humidity is the norm.

Update...after further listening I have decided against using the elevators. For whatever good they appear to do for my system, there seems to be a shift in tone, defintion and dynamic contrast that becomes apparent upon lengthy listening sessions. Things seem less exciting and less colorful somehow:O( Oh well!

Dave_b, yep, try ceramics, but use one and only one per all cables.

Because of this thread, I decided to try my system without the Shunyata Dark Field Elevators which are only under my speaker cables. If my findings are the same as Dave b and some others, I could sell them and recover some money. I had a dealer here doing a "Master Set" on my speakers. He had never seen the DFE's before and is not a Shunyata dealer. When we put the DFE's in the system, the music took on more bloom and the soundstage widened and deepened. There was an increase in detail. My system (which is quite high in resolution IMHO)was clearly more musically satisfying and involving. There was absolutely no dulling or loss of detail. Both of us thought it was very easy to hear the improvement with the DFE's under the SC's. In my system it is one of the very best returns on investments. It seems that this is the very opposite of what Dave b and some others have heard. I have only one other Shunyata piece, that being a Python VX on my CD player. I am certainly not disposed toward Shunyata products. So, this only means as most other high end products go, be sure to try it in your system before you decide. Regards,

Bob V

Rdoc, what do you make of these differences of opinion? Is it possible that you are both right? This happens so often, that I think everyone should have reservations about others' opinions on components.

Tbg,
I live in a very dry environment with very high levels of static electricity. Perhaps getting the SC's off the carpet makes the difference. I do not know if those who thought the DFE's hurt the sound had them under more than the SC's. Any of the aforementioned reasons could account for the difference of opinion. I do know that I was biased against them, and the dealer had not even seen them before. I also mentioned to him that some of the posters on this thread thought the DFE's harmed the sound, so he may also have been biased against them. It was just so plainly evident that the DFE's made a very positive difference on my system. So, it could be system differences. I having been an audiophile for over 40 years have seen many things which were unexplainable. Just trust your own ears.
Bob

hi tbg:

i applaud your ecumenical attitude. one's own experiences are more significant when making a purchasing something.

there are so many variables involved in subjective judgments, that they are usually unreliable.

conflicting opinions , especially where contradictions are present are almost impossible to resolve by a third party.

The DFE are not the best choice with Synergistic Research Apex speaker cables, but can be very effective with other brands. I finally found that the Waipuna Sound solid risers were the best sounding elevators for my Apex cables.

FWIW, I constructed a set of cable risers that are cheap versions of the RSAD risers Robert mentions above. I had some frustrating moments but they work great and look nice.

I noted that my system sounded "cleaner" across the audio spectrum with a little better imaging to boot.

The acrylic risers look sexy, but I've noticed acrylic seems to conduct static electricity, so I'd be concerned about using them on carpet. I'm not sure why I've had so many static issues with acrylic considering it's a plastic, but I have.

Hi Splaskin, What were the differences you noticed between the plastic and wood? I'm still deciding which to get. Thanks, Joe

The plastic seemed a little bright; the wood more relaxed but with the open high end and detail the plastic gave me.

Splaskin, I bought the Waipuna Audio Mrytle wood risers. He advertises here on a-gon. They work very well and look awesome. Jeff does a beutiful job and very nice to deal with. I also picked up a set of his Myrtle wood footers. WOW! Wonderful on my HT receiver. I may order more... Thanks!

Cable elevators by precision products are exceptionally well made.myself and several other friends have them and compared to all but possibly the Shunyata are the best available and at one third the price music direct has these for $120 for 8 of them with free shipping.
These are very substantially built porcelain with NO conductive coating
What so ever. Sonicly the noise floor is lower inner detail is more pronounced as well as cleaner sounding .Very good value for the
Improvement gained.

I have so many wires in my system that I needed to come up with something novel to get them off the floor. I use a 3-shelf wicker book stand and I snake the wires through and around the wicker. This works very well for me.

Sabai, I understand your problem with too many wires. I also have a problem with stiff power cords. Basically, I will only use the now discontinues Rightway Audio ceramic insulators. Typically, I put one pc in the notch in the insulator and others at right angles across it. This allows me to keep all wires off the floor and to not interfere with each other.

Most of my ics are in free air from one connection to the other, although I know they sound best with one isolator per set of cables, it is difficult to do. Speaker cables, however, are supported by a single isolator often high off the floor.

Were I still a potterer I would make a tall piece with multiple branches sticking off each direction and a broad base with a clear and hard glaze. This would allow one to support many cables

i use foam under interconnects, power cords, and speaker cables. hard objects harden the sound.

I find soft objects dampen dynamics and remove the decay of the signal. Most hard objects, including glass and metals, lack the sharp edge of impact and brass. I think the glaze on insulator makes a difference. Also a single insulator is superior to multiple insulators.

I have demonstrated this to others, including in rooms at shows, but as always these are personal preferences, YMMV.

Three bamboo chopsticks held together as tripod with a rubber band about any inch and a half from top forms a nice perch for cables and works wonderfully. I use this method on my speaker cables and can tell the difference between that and on the floor.

Stevecham, given how thin chopsticks are, this is probably good.

Tbg,
I have so many cables that it is impossible to prevent them from touching. I do my best. Getting them off the static tile floor was the biggest challenge. The next challenge is to get them off one another.

what is the consequence of leaving the cables on the floor ?

i use boulder's foam elevators. i'm not sure they are made anymore. i don't experience a loss in dynamics.

Sabai, I don't hear any real impact of cables touching but great impact from them being on both my hardwood floors or on carpeting. As I said the greatest benefit I get is on glazed ceramics, notably the Rightway Audio insulators. I have a dozen of them. I also have four 18k volt isolators with the Rightways mounted on top of them. By themselves the big ones don't sound good, but they weigh a lot and are quite tall.

Mrtennis, as I said before, with ceramic standoffs, I hear greater clarity, dynamics, and accuracy. It is not subtle.