That's the first red flag.If the seller also insists you go the 'friends and family 'route on PayPal the seller won't be liable for any problems or obligated to send the merchandise.Proceed with caution.
Make all of your responses through the Audiogon e-mail system, not outside of it in direct e-mail correspondence. Then you have a record for Audiogon in case you have an issue backing out of a flakey deal.
A seller agrees to the terms of the service, in this case Audiogon, prior to listing. Conducting transactions outside of Audiogon after using Audiogon services to sell your item is 1) against the terms of usage and could/should get you banned 2) unethical no matter how you look at it 3) cheats Audiogon out of the funds that keep this site open and working for us.
If the seller wants to avoid any fees, he/she is free to start their own trading exchange.
I would tell the seller to complete the sale on Audiogon or back out. Otherwise you have zero recourse should he turn out to be a fraudster. These rules are in place for everyone’s protection. If he gets snippy or threatens to write bad feedback, contact Audiogon support with the documentation trail and they will help you. They are very nice people.
I have over 900 transactions on eBay with 100% perfect feedback. I've been buying and selling on line for many years. I totally agree with the advice you received here.
Good advice but I have one comment. I have found the Audiogon email system to be unreliable. I have generally traded actual email addresses early in the process and communicated that way.
When you look at the listing/selling infrastructure and level of service that Audiogon provides it is just absurd to try to cheat them out of their fees. We need them to survive over the long term and that takes money.
I would go one step further than the already excellent suggestions. Report this seller to Audiogon for attempting to skip the fees and use their site as an advertising market with no intention of paying for said service.
Obviously most of you dont sell a lot of equipment on here. First off, when I list equipment for sale, I pay fees ahead of time, so audiogon gets paid no matter what. Second, who said paypal is the only option to pay for equipment? As a seller, we have very little protection. And as a seller who has a ton of good feedback, and has been a member for many many years, I feel like when I sell something, I can ask for whatever method of payment I want. The buyer has a right to move onto the next item. I always add paypal fees, because if they buyer wants to avoid the fees, they can pay by money order, check, cash, or paypal friends and family. If they want that extra security, they can pay the 3%. I put 20yrs into this site, have a good reputation, and have made a lot of good friends. Last thing Im gonna do is let a new member tell me he is worried about dealing with me. Back in the day, I traded many thousands of dollars back and forth and never really had any major issues. Thats the way it should be. Paypal can go back to Ebay for all I care. As a buyer, just do your research.
Admin Audiogon Official
@souljasmooth On Audiogon, Sellers can now only accept PayPal or Express Checkout payments. Only Dealers can accept other Payment options. We require this so buyers have the protection they need in case the item is not as described or item is damaged during shipment.
So what if someone is local and can pick the item up? Still has to go through paypal? Or if I am a local buyer negotiating the price, still has to go through paypal? Makes no sense. What is Express checkout payments?
@Admin - thanks for weighing in. It would be good for the group to get a ruling from you on OP’s question. It would provide a lot of clarity for all. Thanks.
As a counterpoint to the “if the buyer doesn’t want to pay fees or send me a check then screw em” mentality, let me offer that as a highly rated seller on Audiogon, I always bake the fees into the price as the cost of doing business. If the fees make the price undesirable, then I eat them. Also, the cost of doing business. I have never once asked a buyer to cover my costs. If I can’t cover my own costs, then I don’t sell. Simple. I own a small company and approach doing business with my customers the same way. If I can’t afford to sell something, I don’t.
As a buyer on Audiogon, I have agreed to pay the fees as part of the negotiation to get the overall price where I wanted it, but tend to steer away from “Buyer Pays Fees” listings unless the inclusion of those fees still puts the overall transaction price where I want it.
Under no circumstances, would I send a check or money order sight unseen to anyone. As a consumer, I then have zero recourse should I be cheated without involving law enforcement which is a headache that no one wants. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Audiogon and PayPal provide an extremely valuable service that makes transactions in the 1000’s of dollars relatively safe on the Internet. To try and avoid or cheat either of these vendors of their rightfully deserved fees is unethical and in some cases, illegal. Not to mention, it cheats them out of the funds that allow them to continue providing what I consider to be a valuable service that the absence of would descend our online marketplace into chaos and rob honest sellers and buyers the opportunity to enjoy our hobby.
All fees are the responsibility of the seller, period. If
you as the seller want all of your fees covered simply be a good business
person and list your product for a higher price. As an active member for years,
when I see an ad that requires the buyer to pay any fees I simply move on.
uberwaltz, audiogon changes things all the time. I didnt say I was a know it all. I always see the express checkout option, but never used it. I didnt even know you "have" to use paypal on here. So I am learning new things too. So all these ads that you see people stating, "buyer pays fees", why does Audiogon allow these ads to be posted? This is the reason why I thought a seller can ask for whatever payment they choose.
My apologies for a snarky reply, yes we are ALL continually learning as Agon and PayPal etc evolve and develop.
Btw, you do not HAVE to pay your listing fees up front. There are two options, one of which is pay after the sale which would then have the effect of cheating Agon out of due fees.
Of course we do not know all of the details here and only have a buyers version of events so far.
uberwarltz, no problem. I actually noticed that the other day when I listed some things for sale. I think that is pretty new too. I also noticed the fees are much higher now. I remember when the fees were $2, and the only way to pay someone was a money order or COD lol those were the days.....
@viridian They still are on US Audio Mart. I have had success there as well, but I generally find the Audiogon community, experience and support worth the extra coin.
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