Bottleneck / Upgrade Recommendations - Yamaha RVX-475 Receiver, Pro-Ject Phono Box MM

@soix Yes, It just seems to me the OP didn't want to deal with the AVR. I was also thinking he wanted to go with an external DAC and phonostage. I could be wrong in my interpretation. I agree the Hegel integrateds are a good choice if wanting an integrated with an internal DAC. I was once considering them for my living room system where I use a 2-channel system to augment movie watching and for streaming.

@mesch If the OP can connect his AVR to an integrated’s HT bypass I think he could just run the optical cable from the TV to the AVR and not worry about having an optical connection on a DAC although he wouldn’t be able to just ditch the AVR entirely, which is a bit inconvenient.  The Hegels I recommended earlier could handle both.

Given you are dealing with a living room as opposed to a dedicated  A/V room I agree on forgetting the 5.1 system. Allows for distribution of budget across 2 channels for higher quality sound. Also you are budgeting for both vinyl and digital playback. You would not have to focus on upgrading both at the same time.

With vinyl it is important that the phonostage mates well with the cartridge regarding gain and loading to achieve the desired presentation. Your DAC will have to have inputs for connection to your TV (likely optical) and streamer (most often coax or USB). Many streamers come with their own DACs. 

If I were you I would be inclined to focus on the purchase of a line level integrated amplifier that mates well with my speakers.  I would then upgrade my phonostage or streaming  capability as independent events.  Make use of this forum for each level of upgrade. Explore the AG marketplace. I have made several great purchases  from this site.

Good luck in your endeavor.

I think what blew my mind the most was the imaging (I think that and not soundstage, not really clear on the difference still)

So, look at soundstage as the overall size of the sound from left to right, front to back, and height whereas imaging is more placement of individual elements within the soundstage. When you have a system capable of fully fleshing out these characteristics and your speakers are positioned well there’s the appearance of what’s frequently called a “3D soundstage” that allows you experience more of a performance rather than just flat reproduced sound. This is precisely why I recommended experimenting with speaker placement earlier.

I don’t think I quite understand how ht bypass works.

No, you pretty much got it right. The big question is if the RCA connections labeled “Audio” on your AVR are preamp outs — it’s very annoying Yammy is so vague about this so you need to maybe call/email Yamaha to see what this actually is. If it acts like a pre out then you’re correct — the pre outs from the AVR go into the HT Bypass input on the integrated that is then hooked to your speakers. So to switch between HT and dedicated 2-channel with the AVR completely out of the signal path you just change the input on the integrated — that’s it and it’s a beautiful thing.

As for an integrated, I’m with you on wanting separate components for DAC, streamer, and amp, but in your case you need upgrades in all three and there are some options out there that can do all three for you and leave you the flexibility to upgrade individual components down the road as funds allow. Toward that end, I’d be very tempted to look at something like a used Hegel H190 or H120 as you’d instantly get major upgrades in amp, DAC, and streamer that I think would provide a huge increase across the board in performance immediately in one shot. Incidentally, I’d forgo an onboard phono stage in an integrated amp as the phono pre is critical and almost always an afterthought and severely compromised in integrateds — I’d definitely just go separate there.

Last, I’m not surprised you spend most of your time listening to your turntable as you’re currently streaming Spotify through a Sony PlayStation — EEEEEEEK!!!!! You should at least do a free trial of Qobuz that offers much better sound quality and a lot of it in hi res, and even through the Sony and the AVR you should notice a significant improvement. Sorry to drone on, but I hope you find at least some of this useful/helpful.

@mesch I’m leaning towards an integrated amp to start. If I upgrade piecemeal I’m thinking of doing it in this order:

1. Integrated Amp
2. Phono Preamp
3. DAC

I generally like to use things that do one thing and do it well, but if I have ~$3k to spend, does it make sense to start with an integrated amp that has a passable phono preamp and DAC and get dedicated ones later? I’m not opposed to buying used gear as well.

The Leak Stereo 130 looks like it would meet my needs. So does the Outlaw Audio RR2160. Thank you @yogiboy for the suggestion.

@soix I don’t think I quite understand how ht bypass works. If I had surround sound, would I keep the rear and center speakers wired to the receiver and the front speakers wired to an integrated amp? After that is where I get a little lost. How do you connect the front speakers to the receiver? Is it RCA preout from the receiver to an input on the integrated amp? I don’t think my receiver would work for this if it doesn’t have pre outs for the front channels, right? Would some sort of amp switcher/selector also work? E.g. I could have the front speakers wired to both the integrated amp and the receiver and switch between them with that. I’m not too concerned with surround sound, so I don’t think this is something I need at this time.

@hifidan26  Are you considering an integrated amplifier, a DAC and a phonostage? Would you consider used gear?

Optical from the TV would have to be run to a DAC. 

Integrated amplifiers can be purchased with a DAC and phonostage onboard. I prefer to keep digital components separate from analog ones. 

To give additional background I got the turntable, preamp, headphones and headphone amp/DAC all within the last year.  Really impressed with the Edition XS and FiiO Q15 for the price. Now they have me feeling like my stereo setup is lacking. I think what blew my mind the most was the imaging (I think that and not soundstage, not really clear on the difference still) 

@soix im definitely experimenting with speaker placement this weekend. Thank you for the advice.

@theflattire in hindsight I wish I didn’t cheap out on the turntable preamp. I have a buddy with the same turntable and speakers as me. We compared my Pro-ject Phono Box with his Fosi Audio Box X2 which is about the same price.  From what I remember, it made the Phono Box sound a bit “hollow” for lack of a better word. since I got the turntable I do most of my listening with it and maybe stream Spotify like 25% of the time. 
 

@mesch I’m trying to keep any/all upgrades under $3000 total but not super firm on that. 
 

@hifidan26 @theflattire Sorry on pain meds at the moment. Need to slow down.

@theflattire I use a 2-channel system to augment video having music a priority.  From your OP I gather you do the same so you use streaming, a TT and the TV as sources. 

One question: Is the $3000 budget only for upgrading the receiver? 

that phono box isn't doing you any favors

This Outlaw Audio receiver would be a nice upgrade! Check out the reviews!

If I don’t get a preamp or HT processor right away do I just run an optical cable from my TV to the integrated amp?

No. Run that from your TV to your AVR and then the Audio RCA outputs on the AVR to the HT Bypass input on the integrated.

As far as speaker placement, as an exercise pull them another foot into the room and toe them in so they fire just outside your shoulders at the listening position and see if the soundstage opens up at all and the speakers become more invisible as a sound source (be sure to use good jazz, blues, classical etc. recordings for this — no pop music crap). If that helps try pulling them out another foot and see if it gets better or worse. Hey, it’s free to do so why not, and it could be very educational. Also, definitely throw a blanket over the TV when doing serious listening because the reflections from the glass screen are not helpful. Just some free and effective things to try while you’re figuring out the other stuff. FWIW.

You guys rock. Thank you for the info.

deadhead1000

You could add a small Sub to your spearkers, there are many ’mini’ ones out there now that would not bother your neighbors ’too much’

I never considered that…I like the idea. The Cambridge Audio Minx X201 looks like it would be a good fit. If you have any recommendations I’m all ears.

erik_squires

Also, speaker placement and room treatments should be high on your list.

That’s another thing I overlooked. I have a sectional sofa and rug in the living room but that’s about it. I think the quickest/easiest thing I can do is get soundproof curtains for the sliding glass door in my living room. Would that be worthwhile?

I think my speaker placement is “ok”. Do you mean where they are in the room or relative to the listener? I have them on stands that are at ear height, about a foot away from the wall with each speaker beside the TV with 6ish inches of space between the speaker and TV. From where I sit when listening I’m about 10 feet away, gap between the speakers is about 5.5’ . Hopefully that makes sense.

Sounds like the consensus is to replace the AVR with an integrated amp. If I don’t get a preamp or HT processor right away do I just run an optical cable from my TV to the integrated amp?

Another strong vote for replacing the AVR with an integrated amplifier.

Many online audio stores allow return option if not satisfied. Check out Audio Advisor and Music Direct. 

Enjoy the journey.

Agree getting an integrated amp (preferably with HT bypass) as you can get the AVR completely out of the signal path, which is what you want, for significantly better 2-channel performance. Incidentally, you definitely want an integrated amp instead of just an amp because leaving the preamp section of the AVR involved in stereo performance is a huge performance bottleneck — preamps matter!!! BTW, I wouldn’t bother with the Marantz as you’d just be replacing one cheap AVR with another whereas a dedicated stereo integrated can really elevate your 2-channel performance to another level. After the amp I’d get a better dedicated audio streamer and preferably a good separate DAC too. The great thing is you can do this in stages and just enjoy each improvement on its own while saving up for the next. Hope this helps, and best of luck.

You have no bass. 

So, when looking for a new receiver consider something with built in bass management / room correction that will help you get a sub dialed in correctly.

Also, speaker placement and room treatments should be high on your list. 

Lastly, simplify.  You have a lot of bits and pieces.  When you evaluate a receiver or integrated amplifier, get something that is going to have a good headphone amp, and DAC and bass management. 

I would agree your receiver is the first thing to upgrade. More/better power, better phono input (critical before you upgrade the cartridge/turntable ), more inputs. If surround sound isn't a goal, then I'd really recomend an integrated Amp. Unless you are a really die-hard FM listener, no reason to include it.

That said, it will not make the biggest improvement on sound. New spearkers would make the biggest impact. But I would still recomend upgrading the receiver first. You could add a small Sub to your spearkers, there are many 'mini' ones out there now that would not bother your neighbors 'too much'....