Bob Carver 180 Mono-blocks perform superbly
I gots a pair with the original vintage output transformers that Bob no longer has. One of the best soundstaging and imaging amps I've heard, better than my AtmaSphere M60, but not as smooth as the M60. Bass and dynamics is one of the best I've heard. It has two negative feedback setting (around 9dB and 21dB, the latter sounds better IMO). Runs barely warm. Bob is a great guy to deal with. |
If you follow vintage tube amp listings on ebay, Bob Carver shows up on occasion with hand built tube amp listings. Some of them have been fairly simple offerings but with unique circuit designs which he describes in detail. Others much more complex and high power. He goes into great detail about the design and construction - even describing how he hand winds the transformers. The ones I have seen are no reserve auctions that have drawn a great deal of interest and bidding. |
I have owned Parasound JC-1 mono-blocks and still own the Ayon Triton and the Bob Carver 180s in "my system" perform way better than the other gear I have owned. The 180's retail for $7400. They provide a large open, clear and dynamic sound-stage, yet the mids are smooth and liquidity. I'm hearing more detail in familiar recordings with no harshness or grain. You can make out the layers of music in recordings. My friends are blown away by the improvement. The 180's have a circuit that extends the life of the power tubes and the power tubes have a one year warranty. The amps themselves have a seven year warranty and are built like tanks. You can listen in a classic mode or a more contemporary mode by flicking a switch. The new LLC has been set up in Lexington Kentucky and I'm in Louisville so it makes it convenient if repairs were ever needed. All in all I believe Bob has really designed an incredible set of mono-blocks. I love tubes and the 180's are for sure sweet. They normally come in a cherry color but I had mine made in gloss black to match my other components. |
Really? Here's an excerpt from a 1990 Stereophile interview:
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Hardly a fair comparison when the Butlers cost over 2-1/2 times as much as the Bob Carvers. The Butler is no doubt a stupendous design. His guitar pedal effects are legendary and I have a friend who used to work for him and holds his abilities in awe. Still, that doesn't mean Carver's new tube amps should be dismissed because they have user-selectable feedback levels, which are probably relatively low (especially the 11dB setting) compared to many amps. |
Classic mode, the feedback is approximately 20 dB, a value used by most vintage amplifiers and Contemporary mode, feedback is limited to about 11 dB. I personally prefer the classic. For my system they were not just a little jump but significant and the other amps I have used are not slouches by any means. I was able to park them before I get the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC upgrade board. I would love to hear the Butlers I bet their awesome. |
Johnnyb53, apparently you don't read the articles and how many times he stated he is not a tube person (since he dumped tubes for transistors). He never had a tube amp from about '93, til recent. Oh yes, from what I remember in his interviews, he prefers solid state at home. Not too long ago, he found some left over transformers from back then (about '90) and started making the big amps again, and selling them on Ebay for $17-18k. You prefer solid state amps. It seems your lost again. You seem always say how great your Onkyo is, and your new solid state acquirement. |
01-02-12: Thankful I agree. I just can't figure out why a person who apparently likes solid state (E.g. Johnnyb53) posts on tube amp threads. I still wonder if Bob Carver is doing it for the money now (some people are saying that's the reason) , since he made so many statements in favor of solid state. I prefer tube amps mostly myself, and on occasion use solid state. I also wonder if it sounds like his Silver Seven... I'm glad people are enjoying the 180. |
I'm a tube guy mainly but have owned and heard some great ss gear. I was told that Bob is making amps again with his partners because he was bored with retirement,as were they. Can't comment on his finances but if I were betting I would say money has nothing to do with it. If I had the skills of a Bob Carver I would never retire. |
. I have been following Bob Carver's listings of his amps on eBay over the last year. He has totally redesigned his legendary Silver Seven amps. He calls the new beasts the Silver 900. They deliver 900 wpc of tube power, nearly double the power of the original Silver Seven. The original Silver Seven amps delivered 500 wpc. On one of his posts on eBay he mentioned that he makes amps now when he has the time. He says that he has a day job and that he is not retired. Link to Bob Carver New Big Ass Amps . |
Hey, Snohomish, WA (shipped-from location) is just up the road from me. I could save myself $360 by picking them up in person. Yippee. :-) |
The Apogee Scintilla comes to mind for the Siver 900. They're Bobs favorite speakers. In personal communication, Bob has always stated he likes the sound of tubes over SS. The Cherry 180 is a special amp. Does things I would not have imagined tubes would do well, like lightening dynamics and extended tight bass and ability to drive 1 ohm load. |
. Below is an email conversation that I had with Bob Carver asking why the Silver 900's only come single ended with no XLR option. Dear mitch4t, . |
Dracule - totally agree with your statement. The 180's are amazing tube amps. I love what they have done for my system. There are some clips of Bob Carver on Youtube talking about his amps (ss vs tube etc.). Very informative information. Dracule The Cherry 180 is a special amp. Does things I would not have imagined tubes would do well, like lightening dynamics and extended tight bass and ability to drive 1 ohm load. |
There are tube amps that have high power, speed, extended bandwidth and tight bass (e.g., the VTL Siegfried Reference), but they're really expensive, hot and huge. It looks like one of the breakthroughs on these Bob Carvers is bringing this performance profile to more more affordable levels and reasonable size. No small feat. |
"It looks like one of the breakthroughs on these Bob Carvers is bringing this performance profile to more more affordable levels and reasonable size. No small feat." It is about time that a tech savvy individual has been able to bring a product to market with a great cost to performance ratio. We need more of that in order to allow people with shallow pockets to delve into the market. I am starting to see trends in other products where a manufacturer develops an introductory product incorporating lots of technology based on their top of the line products. Good news. Ciao, Audioquest4life |
Audioquest4life - Great observation, I believe some of what has been occurring in the audio world is border line insanity. As I talk and correspond with folks like yourself I'm finding frustration with over the top high pricing. As folks like Bob push the envelope and price fairly the competition will have to take notice and follow suit. Like most people I have to pull every trick in the book to raise money for this hobby. So when something of this quality comes along I feel better about the purchase. The competition had better take notice of these type of trends. I'll repeat again that I believe the 180's will compete with much more expensive mono-blocks. |
if you don't have big bucks the best buy out there is the Pure class A Zero feedback Spirit 3 Integrated retail $5200 but $4500 deliverd is possible and 60wpc pure class A pentode ,or 40wpc Triode is more than enough for most people not going deaf.The unit is almost 80 lbs transformers are huge by Any standard and are superb from Lundahl of Sweden and the new MK3 is Totally redesigned with Austrian-German Build quality better than Any even at $10k makes Prima luna look Bad . |
Agreed. Dismissal of an amp because of negative feedback is a gross misunderstanding and overly simplistic understanding of circuit design as is dismissal of an amp due to transformers. OTL is a valid approach obviously, but at what cost? The sound into real speakers will tell the story and the ear will be the judge. |
I live here in Kentucky and bought a pair of Bob Carver Cherry 180M amplifiers. These are the best amps that I have ever had, I won't try and describe the sound they make. I was never good at trying to describe what "bright", "warm", and all the other terms that reviews use to describe a speakers sound. I do know what sounds good to my ears and what doesn't. Besides, I am sure the "sound" will change depending on what speakers, Pre-amp, tubes, and source choices are. What I will tell you is that before these amps I was using a pair of Jolida 1000P stereo tube amps, and before that I had used McIntosh MC-2105, Jeff Rowland model 3 mono amps, NAD 272 Stereo amp, Magnum Audio Stereo Amp, and I am sure there was some others in there as well. Of course along with all these other amps I also had many other Pre-amps, sources, and speakers so it would be hard to give you a true A to B comparison. So let me tell you about the Bob Carver Cherry 180M mono blocks, they are truly hand built, point to point wired, and solidly put together in an attractive case that is painted Cherry Red with Black transformer covers and Gold name plates. I was able to go to Lexington and tour the small facility where they hand build these amps. So yes, $7k might sound like a lot of money for a pair of amps but when you honestly consider that these are Hand Built with point to point wiring by Kentuckians in Kentucky and not some sweat shop in some foreign country with slave labor you will understand that these are actually a bargin. I am not saying that parts inside the Amp are not from china, I believe some of the tubes are Chinese as are resistors etc. because this is a manufacturing company they have to get parts where they can at a reasonable cost and it is impossible to source a parts from America. These amps are made so well that I would venture a guess that they will still be working 50 years from now. So that takes care of the build quality, as for sound. Well with these I have a full range of sound, from low wall shaking bass when playing Daft Punk via the Turntable or the highs of a woman's voice like on Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. And with all thats going on in the music with Pink Floyd's The Wall it all becomes clear and precise. At least I think that how I should have described it. I sure some one will correct me if I get it wrong. So let's say you just want to Rock, spin some Iron Maiden The Final Frontier and prepare to just enjoy metal the way it was intended. The soundstage is huge with depth and the amp is dead quiet, thanks to a volume control built into the amps. Plenty of power available too with 200 watts per channel. I have had my amps for about six months now and have not been disappointed one bit, of course I did change out the factory 12AT7 and 12AX7 tubes with new production Tung-Sol 12AT7 and new production Electro Harmonix 12AX7 tubes. But that's part of tube ownership, tube rolling. So is the heat that these produce, however they do not produce as much heat as my previous Jolida Tube Amps. And even my favorite Solid State Jeff Rowland put out a lot of heat under load. So, I would recommend looking in to the Bob Carver Cherry 180M amps if you are wanting to get into tube amps. To get anything better you would probably have to spend well over 20k on VAC or something similar. Hey I would be surprised if these are the last amps you buy, so it you spread the cost out over 20 years the cost is quite low (That was a joke). My System is: Leben HiFi RS28CX Tube Pre-Amp with Tube MM phono stage and outboard Tube rectified power supply. Bob Carver Cherry 180M Tube Mono Blocks Janton A&V 803 Real Full range loudspeakers Pro-Ject Xtension turntable with 12" Evo Carbon Fiber Tone Arm Ortofon 2M Bronze Cartridge Denon 3800BDCI Blu-ray player Jadis JS-1 Tube D.A.C. AppleTV 3rd Gen Playstation 3 Core Audio Component Rack Core Audio Amp Isolation Stands Tice Power Block Luminous Audio interconnect Wireworld Silver HDMI Luminous Audio Speaker Cable 50" Plasma Hitachi |
I thought I had a problem. It turned out to be one of my DIY power cables had a loose connection. I did ship the amp back to Kentucky were it was run in for some time, tested, and I was promptly contacted. I subsequently found the cable problem and the amp was returned. All in all the issue, or the lack of an issue, was communicated and handled very well. The VTA 180s have turned out to be an incredible fit in my system. |
I was more interested in construction quality and the lack of using printed wire boards and crimped connectors. Also, I wasn't interested in paying for fancy casework. Mine are handsomely finished in black. In voicing audio components using the most expensive parts may not meet the designers goal. Your seeing the MSRP. You should contact Underwood HiFi soon regarding price and your capacitor question. He mentioned a possible price increase but I'm not sure when. |
The only other Carver product I've owned was a pair of Phase linear 400's in the early seventies for PA use. This was in the infancy of solid state but those amps took a hell of a lot of abuse with no problems until they were eventually sold over nine years later. I don't have any experience with Carver's later gear. I'm told he still maintains Carver service for all his products. I was skeptical until I did the research and talked to other owners. This circuit was designed by Carver and Tim de Paravicini. Whatever engineering tricks they used to come up with this level of performance is impressive to me. He partnered with Bob Farinelli to produce the amps and with Tony Ferrero to manufacture. I'm told Carver himself was involved in the design but not the manufacture. I spent twenty-two years servicing engineering printing, plotting, and copying equipment. I know shit manufacturing when I see it. The by hand assembly work in my amplifiers is very well done. The product carries a seven year transferable warrantee and one year on tubes. |
I owned a Phase Linear 4000 preamp, it was quad, and I thought it sounded good, but that was compared to "midfi" and not "high end". Once I compared it to "high end", I discovered it sounded kind of "tinney" and when I looked inside, the parts were cheap. The question I asked in regard to the capacitors was very specific, "What kind of capacitors does he use"? |
