Bob Carver 180 Mono-blocks perform superbly

Vmhf, thanks for feedback on your tube rolling. I've wanted to try the Golden Lion KT88s, but hesitated because no one has reported about them with he Carvers. Now, I need to save up.

How much is a pair of EAT 12AX7s?

I gots a pair with the original vintage output transformers that Bob no longer has. One of the best soundstaging and imaging amps I've heard, better than my AtmaSphere M60, but not as smooth as the M60. Bass and dynamics is one of the best I've heard. It has two negative feedback setting (around 9dB and 21dB, the latter sounds better IMO). Runs barely warm. Bob is a great guy to deal with.

The Apogee Scintilla comes to mind for the Siver 900. They're Bobs favorite speakers. In personal communication, Bob has always stated he likes the sound of tubes over SS. The Cherry 180 is a special amp. Does things I would not have imagined tubes would do well, like lightening dynamics and extended tight bass and ability to drive 1 ohm load.

My Cherry 180 is more transparent than my AtmaSphere M60 which is saying a lot, but my 180 has the vintage transformer and Vcap coupling caps with better binding posts, RCA connector, and captive PC cord that the standard 180s lack. It's all around best top 5 amps I've heard.

If anyone hasn't noticed, the Carver Black Beauty Amp won Editors Choice and Product of the Year awards by The Absolute Sound for 2012. And for some of you trying to figure out what boutique capacitor the amp uses (it doesn't), I would pay more attention to the sound of the amp than name brand parts. I put Vcaps for output coupling and am not sure they made a significant difference. It is the best amp I've ever used. If you really want to hear a significant upgrade in sound, get a pair of Psvane 12AX7 and 12AT7s, which are magical in this amp. Sound better than NOS Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7 and RCA 12AT7s.

Voskhod 12AX7 for only $1.70! Let us know how it sounds. However, it looks like you have to rewire the filament connection because it only accepts 6.3 V, not 12.6 V. Not sure how the 12AX7s in the Carvers are connected.

Vicdamone, how does the NuForce Ref 9 sound compared to the Cherry 180? I have not had Class D amps in my system. I've heard them in other systems and at shows, but the sound never won me over.

Hi Ait, I did not say vintage transformers are better. For the eBay Cherry 180s, Bob used pie wound vintage transformers that he bought when he was in college, I believe. Pie winding was important in the old days when the "iron" wasn't as good as present day core material. In the pre-transistor era, transformer designers had to rely more on their winding technique than the core material to get good frequency response. But pie winding is more time consuming and difficult to do. This is what Bob told me.

Hi Vic, thanks for the description of sound of the NuForce.

I would contact Bob Carver, LLC and make sure those tubes won't cause a problem if you decide to directly plug them into your amp without rewiring.

According to Bob Carver, there should not be a significant difference in sound between the two amps except for the extra headroom of the BBs. I have heard that the KT120s on the BBs may sound a little sweeter up top than the stock KT88s in the Cherry 180. But you got so much choice in KT88s, you could probably get the sound you're looking for by tube rolling. You can't with the KT120, which is only made by one manufacturer. Based on what I've heard from the latest Bryston amps in different systems (but not in my own), I can almost guarantee you that Bob's amps will have better sound staging/imaging, more harmonically correct and less fatiguing sound than the Bryston. Bryston will probably have tighter bass. That's my edumacated guess based on my experience. I think Thiels relatively lean sound will benefit from a good tube amp.

Anyone rolled the 12AX7 and 12A7? The best I've tried so far is the Psvanes. They sound better to me than the NOS Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7 and RCA 12AT7 combination.

I've heard the golden lion KT88 reissues are very good. I'm thinking of getting them.

Maggies do soak up power like a sponge...can you describe more in detail how the Carvers sound on them?

Thanks Vmhf. Bob amps used to come with NOS smooth plate Telefunken 12AX7 and RCA or GE 12AT7, which were a great combination. From what I understand, the current signal tube are crappy Chinese signal tubes. If you can get the high quality Chinese Psvane 12AX7/12AT7, you will even surpass the NOS combination. More extension in the bass/treble, more air, better soundstaging and imaging, etc. For Maggies, may be the 300 watt Black Beauty may be a better match.

I have a little secret to share with you if you want to improve the sound more than what high quality signal tube can do. And it's affordable. You will significantly increase bass impact and dynamics (may rival your SS amp), among all the other improvements I've talked about. Replace the stock volume control pots in the amp with Gold Point stepped attenuators (~$160). You will be shocked at the improvement. If you are handy with soldering iron or have a local tech, this is the best mod I've done on this amp. A more expensive mod is to put in four 0.22 uF Teflon Vcap as output caps. These two mods will take these amps to a whole new level. Bob's circuitry is rock solid and installing high quality key parts can make this amp sound just incredible.

BTW, I've had GP in my amps for the past 2 years (had the amps for about 3 years I think). I've had zero problems (no hum, no pops, no tube hiss). Bias setting is stable once set. These amps are the most reliable tube amp I've ever owned, on par with the most reliable SS amps.

Vicdamone, you will need two Vcaps per monoblock, so four total. I have the tin foil, not the copper foil Vcap. I think an even better cap would be the copper PIO Duelund CAST caps, but I can't afford them right now. They're on sale at Partsconnexion.com.

Vmhf, you will get the best result installing the Goldpoints within the input of the amp. Having an external passive will degrade the sound compared to the above. Believe me, I've tried. If you want remote, you get the the Bent Audio remote control kit for the Goldpoints.

If you want to use both your phono and CDP without having to switch cables, I would recommend an active preamp. But you need to make sure the active preamp doesn't have too much gain, because Bobs amps have input sensitivity of 1.25 V for full power.

After you hear the Goldpoints in the amp, it's hard to go back to anything else because the sound quality so darn good. I'm willing to physically switch cables and go without remote for the best sound possible.

Vicdamone, yes the Vcaps will replace the stock 2.2 uF output coupling caps.

Hey Vmhf, let us know of your impressions on the different 12AX7/12AT7s you've tried.

Jeff, the output coupling caps are 0.22 uF. There is a feedback cap in there that is 2.2 uF. All you have to do is pop the hood and check.

Vmhf, you need two MiniV, 100 kOhm, mono version. $79 each.

http://www.goldpt.com/prices.html

Vic, I understand your concern. Personally, I think the Goldpoint mod would be the easiest and most bang for the buck improvement. Carver should offer this as an upgrade option.

Bob is awesome. I'm glad he's in high end tube audio again. Last time was back in the 80's with is Silver 7 mono blocks.

Man! You're right. I having a total recall. I don't use active preamps, so it slipped my mind.

Ah yes, I remember this story of Bob and Stu Hegeman. The best designers of the glory tube years would never consider designing a SET amp, including Bob. It was PP class AB amps all the way, and to my ears they are more neutral than any SET amp I've heard. Bob is an entertaining story teller. Thanks for the link Vic.

Bob Carver tube amp owners should unite and ask for stepped volume control and better output coupling caps as upgrade options. They're easy upgrades that significantly improves the sound.

Vmhf, I understand your warranty concern. As far as your CDP volume issue is concerned, it depends on the quality of the the volume control circuit of the CDP. If it is high quality, I would set Bobs vol control to max which will almost effectively bypass the amp's stock pot. If you decide to install the Gold Point attenuator in the future, I would set the CDP vol to max and use the GP to control the volume. Nothing I've tried so far beats the GP installed in the amp.

VmhF, great news! Bob Carver has informed me replacing the stock volume pot with the Gold Point stepped attenuator by a qualified professional will not void the warranty on the amp.

Sovtek KT88s? I think those are even cheaper than the stock tubes, and they sound better than the stock? That's great. I have the Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7s.

That's great you found affordable better KT88s. I read on thetubestore.com that the Sovtek has tight bass except for the very bottom end. What is your assessment of the very bottom end of this tube?

The EAT tubes are crazy expensive, and I've read they have reliability issues. I was considering Northern Electric KT88s which are "only" $198 per tube. Some very positive user reviews claim the NE is as good as the EAT tubes. The Carver's deserves the very best tube you can find.

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/KT88-Tube-Types/Northern-Electric-KT88

Hi Thuan, I have the GP Mini-V Mono, 100kOm, in my amp.

http://www.goldpt.com/prices.html

The standard knobs on my Cherry 180 fit the GP. But my Cherry 180s may have different knobs than the current production. I would get the GP first and see if they fit your standard knobs.

Hi Tuan89, I'm glad the GP worked out for you. It's the best affordable upgrade, better than tube rolling I think. The attenuator is the first thing the signal sees when it enters the amp, so a crappy volume pot will degrade the sound from the beginning no matter what you do downstream in the amp.

The output coupling caps are 0.22 uF (should be rated at >600V). You'll need 4 of them.