Blue Note reissues as an investment?

Kublakhan,

I agree with some of the feedbacks you are getting. If you like the music, get it for that reason. If you make some money selling it later, good. If it is music you think you will like later then again you should get it now. Then if you do not end up liking it you can also sell it. But if you wait, you will have to pay 2 to 3 times what it will cost you now.
Because others are also buying them as an investment.

Some here say it is not a good investment but I disagree,
6 years ago I purchased all 8 of the UHQR's sealed as an investment. I paid $1000.00 for all of them and I could recoup all my money just selling Darkside.
I also purchased an extra Led Zep 45 box set as an investment and have had offers in the $3000.00 range. That’s a profit of $2400.00 in a year.
It is risky though. I do love most of what I collect and some I hope to love in the future. As long as vinyl stays popular you are okay and for the near future I do not see it loosing its popularity.
hevac1

Only a few record reissues will be a good future investment.
The original 1st pressing Blue Note records ( also most Prestige and some others ) are and will stay top recommendation for records investment !

A few years ago I spent about $90 for the reissue of Rossini's Sonate A Quatro (Accardo on violin) on Philips which was advertised as limited to 1000 numbered copies. Well, about a nine months later, numbers 1001 to 2000 started popping up for sale. Now they're up to 4000. These jerks are just issuing as many as they can sell and putting nice little brass numbers on every box. In this cases I don't care all that much because I bought it for the music, but I'd never spend $50 per disc (or any where near that) for a supposed "limited edition" as an investment.

What if some unscrupulous person(s) find a way to make newly released counterfeit copies of the original reissues?

You never know.

Undoubtedly a bad investment, at least in any predictable sense, for all the reasons mentioned already. But, great enjoyment factor, so I can't imagine wanting to sell them later anyway - every one of the AP and MM sets I have received I just love. Maybe they'll be worth a lot when my kids are cleaning up my estate in a few decades :-)

Buy the LPs you want and you are investing in your music enjoy every time you put one on the TT. Get a spare if you think you need a back up, but think of it as a spare only.

Hi - Oops, for some reason, that set showed up in my search for lp's but I didn't open it to read the description. You can see a list of many past auctions here:

http://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?pagenum=1&searchtext=mclean+mosaic&incldescr=¤cy=&sortord=ddate&thumbs=

And yes, as a professional stock trader, I would say your point of view is absolutely correct. If you can sell it for $300 and you don't, that IS exactly the same as buying it at that price.

Frankly, if you put it on Audiogon (with a reserve), you might do much better than the Ebay average. Jazz LP's are often going for truly insane prices here - which is a whole other discussion in itself.

Opalchip,, that McLean on ebay right now is actually a cd set. The past auction I was referring to is too old to show up...it just disappeared a couple of days ago. Even for what you say is the average price for that mosaic set it's still hard for me to justify holding on to it. Keeping it when it's selling at that price is basically the same as buying it for that price.

There's a lot of randomness on Ebay, and i didn't see the auction you're referring to but that result would be a rare one. The McLean Blue Note sets have averaged around $270-$280 for years. One just went in March for $270, and there's one up right now finishing in a day or two, so watch that one. So they are trading above the original cost. But what made your set a good "investment" was not rising prices, but rather that you bought it at a below market price.

Buying limited edition LPs sometimes brings up an interesting dilemma. About a year ago I found a copy of Mosaic's Jackie McLean for $150 and hemmed and hawed whether I should buy it and finally did. Just the other day I saw that a copy went for over $500 on ebay. This is what sparked my post. Now I have to ask myself, can I really justify holding on to my copy when I can use the cash to buy ten Music Matters LPs with it? There are worse problems to have, but you know...

Collectibles are generally not a good investment. Want to buy some Beanie Babies?

Look at something very collectible like the Mobile Fidelity boxed set of the Beatles. It retailed for around $300

Historically you can double your money in the stock market about every 6 years. That set was released 26 years ago so you would have had about 4 doubles in that time.

$300 x2 x2 x2 x2 = $4,800

Sealed sets are pretty rare but opened ones go for around $1,000 so it is hard to imagine a sealed one would get almost 5 times that.

It's like those late 60's early 70's muscle cars going for 100-200 thousand. Still a bad investment. Using the same math on a car that cost $3,000 in 1970 it would have doubled maybe 6 times.

$3k x2 x2 x2 x2 x2 x2 = $192,000

Factor in the insurance paid each year that would also have double in value every so many years had it been invested (take just the first year and let's say it was $200 it would be worth almost $13,000 now, each year compounded a little less but easily a few $100K after 38 years), add maintenance, garage space, and the off frame restoration it takes to get top dollar that costs probably close to $50,000 and you just lost your ass on that deal.

That doesn't include the pleasure of ownership but as an investment it doesn't do so well. Buy them because you want to listen to them and enjoy them.

Classic Records, Analogue Productions, Mosaic, Music Matters - they're just going to keep coming. There will always be supply to fill any major void in demand. Frankly, I think the LP craze peaked (pricewise) in 2006. I have close to 200 sealed records (just because I haven't gotten around to listening to them yet). Some are very desirable - and very very few have gone up in value over the past couple of years.

The Music Matters issues, at almost $60 per issue incl. shipping, are pushing the pricing envelope if you ask me. Is someone going to pay $100 for these down the line? Depends how many are floating around out there. All I see on the MM website is "limited edition". In fact - the 2500 copy figure is notoriously absent from MM's documentation. It seems to appear in all the dealers' literature, but not actually in MM's words anywhere. I don't see any explicit guarantees that the Master will be destroyed and that they won't start re-pressing at a later date.

Also look, for example, at "Mosaic Complete Recordings of Miles Davis Quintet 65-68" - a 10 lp set in unplayed condition just sold on Ebay for $202.50. That's a whopping $22 over the original purchase price. And that's TEN lp's for $202.

I'd buy 'em cause you want them, and leave it at that.

Also re: the numbered copies. If they're pressing 2500 copies of each, I would ask how many stampers they're using. If multiple stampers, it's possible that an early non-numbered pressing from Stamper #2 may be superior to a late-numbered pressing from the end of Stamper #1's run.
If their plan is to run only one stamper - or press directly from the Father - I would definitely NOT opt for non-numbered copies.

With music in mind- Supply vs Deamand will likely be on the more supply than demand for all music. Classical getting hurt the worst.
What I want toi say is that, quite bluntly, as the generations who most desire the product pass away, the demand for this music, passes away.(oversupply)
Look at what has happened to classical miusic. It occupies a miniscule segment of the market. In turn Classical musicians and new production have, liitle support for promotion for space, ads, radio time, entire radio programs i.e the station no longer exists. In Philly one station has committed one half of it's day to Classical and that is a College supported station from Temple U. in fact. Support by the even smaller group called audiophools, is not enough . We simply cannot float that market ourselves it will survive only if more robust popular support emerges from the broad market. It is clear that the current music dollar is not headed toward Clasical production. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.
The few brick and mortar stores left that have music on discs devote most of their display to pop. Demand always depends on the larger markets. In many cases there is no classical at all to speak of. Compare this to when Tower Records opened it's doors in NYC 25+ years ago. They needed an entire separeate room on a different level physically and metaphorically to handle the demand. When the last Tower Records closed in my area, it had a half of a short ailse, in a pathetic, now empty, but once was, a bustling classical and Jazz only room to pick off the remains.
In the total demographic only very old people will show a significant preference for classical music and cool jazz. This is not a market segment that attracts marketing or production money, so it withers on the vine.
Ultimately I think it bodes poorly for an investment. Invest in it for yourself forget reeping any real profit. If you really disagree and think there will be a general demand for these records you should respect the laws governing value for anything collectable. The rules are simple 1. Condition 2. Condition 3. Coindition etc.......to make certain the collectable remains valueable use the collecting rule of perfect condition keep it" New In Box untouched." That's always the most desirable thing to any collector.

What Blindjim says makes sense to me. IMHO collecting anything is a question of passion ( or obsession ) and that is the best reason to do it. Often enough, if you go for what you love, that love will be returned some way down the road.

Speculation is as said, "Risky Business". I don't see much risk if you hold to your stated path. Were I to speculate or try to predict the future on something for profit short term, I'd buy tickets to the next super bowl... there'll sure be a market for resale there.

If this new or latest issuance isn't har to get now, what would make you think it will become more sought after at some later date? Or... won't be reissued yet again by those who have the rights to it at that time??

I'd do just as you said... buy try and keep those which I prefer and IF at some later date there is a demand for the 'now used' product... then sell.

Good luck, but I'd not get my hopes up too much... as it all comes down to supply and demand... How many will want them/it, and how many will be available?

All the best...

depends on the artist and the tunes.

Probably but I would never buy records as an investment instrument. Many more reliable ways to make money.

The value of collectibles is hard to predict. One day you're sitting on a gold mine, the next day you can't give the stuff away.

I think your plan is pretty low risk, but if you really want to maximize the possible upside of your investment you should buy a complete set of the LPs, leave them unopened and resell them as a complete set.

On the downside, I don't think that vinyl will continue to be considered to be the best audio format indefinitely. I believe that a high-res digital format will come along one day that will improve on the sound of all the formats that are available today.