Best Tonearm and Cartridge for 4K or under for restored Garrard 301
I have a good set up for digital audio and would like to venture into analog audio. My digital set up is Cary DMS600 -> Cary SLP05 -> Cary CAD211FE -> KEF Blade. I love the sound!
My first and only TT is a Thorens TD126 with TP16 tonearm and TMC60 MC -> PPA990 and phono stage is Cary PH302.
I bough an old Garrard 301. Planning to get it restored by Jim Campbell. Have a slate plinth. Now I am looking for a tonearm and cartridge that will justify my set up. I am thinking 4K. I could go lower or higher depending on the feedback, cost/value. I am looking for a good bargain. If I don't like it, I can easily sell it without much loss. I listen to classical, jazz, rock, indian music.
I have never setup a tonearm before. But I looked extensively on the internet and Michael Fremer's how to set up videos. I understand all the different angles, VTA, SRA, Azimuth, Zenith.
Looks like Michael likes Kuzma 4PT, I liked his review of the tonearm. I am also looking at linear trackers like Transfi Terminator. Woody, Triplaner Mk VII, SME 3012R, SME 312, Ortofon RS 309D, Dynavector DV 505/ 507, Reed 3P, Stogi reference, FR 64S, FR 64 FX, Sumiko 800.
Miller would have a baby with my tonearms setup on my 401. Micro Seiki ma505ls. Detachable headshell. Din plug cable. Out to Denon sut. Out to Phonostage Finally into integrated.
Lol.
But not quite sure why Miller even posting here as he is a confirmed idler drive hater? Rumble, rumble like a cement mixer . 😉😉
Chakster wrote that Oswald Mills Audio plinth is made of graphite. That is incorrect. They are made of Pennsylvania slate. Slate and graphite are two different things.
Wow, so it was my mistake then, mainly because those slate plinth looks identical to OMA graphite mats and shells. I watched a video how it was made (the plinth). Seems like they do not make any slate plinth anymore, now only cast iron.
"The OMA graphite mat is precision machined from an extremely high grade of polycrystalline graphite, not amorphous carbon, which is graphite dust in resin." -OMA
Also, perhaps paradoxically, use of a heavier counterweight could have the effect of reducing the effective mass of the tonearm overall. This is because the effect of the counter weight on tonearm effective mass is proportional to its distance from the pivot-squared, times the weight of the CW. Thus the distance from the pivot is dominant. And substituting a heavy CW for a light one will bring the CW closer to the pivot, all other things being equal.
This is where you are wrong, because IKEDA-SAN designed OPTIONAL W-250 counterweight for FR-64fx tonearm for use with his FR-7f series cartridges. Cartridge alone is over 30g and counterweight is located very close to the pivot when i’m using FR-7fz on my FR-64fx. As you can see in the catalog W-250 counterweight comes with FR-66fx tonearm, the 66 is higher mass arm.
To use FR-64fx with FR-7f series (or SPU) every owner need a heavier counterweight (W-250) for optimal performance on this particular tonearm. Bacause the stock counterweight for FR-64fx toneams is much lighter and smaller, to balance FR-7f it must be far away from the spindle which is NOT optimal for high mass low compliance cartridges. This is why W-250 was made by Ikeda. And it is very close to the pivot when FR-7fz is mounted and adjusted. W-250 is bigger than heaviest counterweight you have with your FR-64s.
My comment was given for Fidelity-Research tonearm "FX" series.
Now i have two FR-64fx tonearms, one that i use ONLY with my FR-7fz with W250 counterweight and it’s optimal for this combination according to Ikeda-San.
And another NOS in the box with stock small counterweight for conventional cartridges on conventional headshells that i’m gonna try on this tonearm in the future (Miyabi for example). "FX" series is so beautiful and i love it! I wish i could have black B-60 base for it. But now i have two N-60 for my FX beauties.
But not quite sure why Miller even posting here as he is a confirmed idler drive hater?
At the risk of making the obvious mistake of thinking logic has
anything to do with an uberwaltz post, having never said even one word
one way or the other about idler wheels- EVER! Find it uberwaltz and I
will GIVE YOU MY TURNTABLE you useless piece of... nevermind,like we
all don't know anyway- so no merit as usual to that. But even if I had-
which I have not!- I'd be a lousy idler wheel hater seeing as my own
freaking turntable is rim drive, which is essentially a variation on an
idler wheel! Check it out! https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 So much for the hater part. Now on to the question of why I'm posting here. Which is obvious to everyone else. Since the OP is asking about tone arms, I am letting him know about tone arms. Unlike uberwaltz, who went way off topic into idler drive just to gratuitously slam me for something I never did.
Doesn't make a lick of sense. Just like uberwaltz. Well I did say its a mistake to apply logic to any of his posts. Right again.
I must humbly apologise here, I could have sworn it was yourself that was the idler hater. I was wrong. It is Mijo. Jeez, what a klutz. At least I can admit when wrong though, unlike some.
In my defence it has been increasingly hard to tell the pair of you apart at times though but no excuse, I screwed up badly on that accusation.
The purpose of the Post was to inform the OP the Idler TT, can be experienced in a variety of Sound Qualities. It is a design that is for the end user, tweakable in many ways, and does not require the intrusion into the mechanics of the Deck itself. I'm sure with the directions available in this thread, the OP will find a place of great satisfaction in their front end source.
Chakster, on the issue of graphite vs slate, I do owe you an apology if you were talking about mats in the first place and not plinths. The OP was asking about plinths, and I assumed you were referring to plinths made by OMA, which are, or were last time I looked, of slate, not graphite. On the other hand, if you were discussing platter mats in the first place, mea culpa. I'm also sorry, but your argument about the effect of a high mass counterweight is specific to FR and Ikeda, and I am talking in general about the calculation of tonearm effective mass. A heavy CW, which because of its weight can be placed close to the pivot, can have the effect of reducing effective mass, because the factor of distance between the center of mass and the pivot is squared, whereas CW mass is to the first power. Those are facts. Ikeda didn't abrogate physical laws. If you want to minimize effective mass, you are best off with a heavy CW that can be placed as close as possible to the pivot vs a lighter CW that has to be further from the pivot to achieve balance or the desired VTF. That's all I was saying.
I'm also sorry, but your argument about the effect of a high mass counterweight is specific to FR and Ikeda, and I am talking in general about the calculation of tonearm effective mass. A heavy CW, which because of its weight can be placed close to the pivot, can have the effect of reducing effective mass, because the factor of distance between the center of mass and the pivot is squared, whereas CW mass is to the first power. Those are facts. Ikeda didn't abrogate physical laws. If you want to minimize effective mass, you are best off with a heavy CW that can be placed as close as possible to the pivot vs a lighter CW that has to be further from the pivot to achieve balance or the desired VTF. That's all I was saying.
I believe the point you are making is analogous to the point Mike Fremer and others make about the inherent superiority of 9" arms over longer arms to minimize latent reaction to groove modulation and warps in the vertical plane. That on paper may well be true, but in actual practice there are advantages to 10.5 and 12" arms and as has been a common theme in my posts on this thread, you have to pick your priorities. Are Koetsu cartridges with heavy stone cartridge bodies inherently inferior to lighter cartridge bodies since they require larger CW's to balance out? Common sense tells us the answer is no.
Just for the record, what I wrote and what I had in mind have nothing to do with tonearm length. The same rules apply no matter what the length, and I was not meaning to advocate for 9-inch tonearms.
... the inherent superiority of 9" arms over longer arms to minimize latent reaction to groove modulation...
Will you please explain what "latent reaction to groove modulation" is?
I can’t tell if that is snark or not. The concept is that due to higher mass, a 12" arm can not react as quickly to changes in the vertical plane. Those that believe it is a real issue claim that the compliance of the cantilever is insufficient to eliminate the effect. There is no doubt, as a matter of physics, that the advantage of a 9" arm in this regard is real. The question is whether in reality, a mere 15 to 30% of additional arm length makes an audible difference and one that outweighs the advantages of lower tracking error.
I bought a peter riggle woody tone arm, SME 3012 ii and FR 64S. I am looking at FR-66S vs IT-407. I bought a Shindo platter and bearing as well which is being shipped. I am happy to spend the money as long as I can get it back if I don't like it. The reason I am buying so many arms is that I can have mounting boards made for them and compare them. I am also interested if someone isolated the tonearm mount from the plinth. I saw some youtube videos and they look amazing. A lot of forum members are claiming that FR-66S is better than Ikeda IT-407 (early version and later version), even though IT-407 is good on paper doesn't translate into sound is what they claim. I would like to get your thoughts on that.
Nanda you have to decide for yourself after your own experience with those tonearms and different cartridges. FR66s is not $4k tonearm, it’s twice as much in price. This is a high mass tonearm for low compliance cartridges. If you already have 64s in perfect condition then try Ikeda (short of long). You can pimp your 64s by sending it to Ikeda for rewire and maintenance (if your 64s is not perfect).
Joining this discussion a little late. I recently upgraded from a shelter 501 to a rebuild Koetsu black. My listening interests are mostly blues, jazz and a lot of Indian music (I have lots of LPs from the 60s/70s). The rest of the system is decent
1. Well tempered classic with JMW 12 tonearm
2. Zu Omen Mk2's and zu event cables
3. Ifi iphono black 3
4. Benchmark LH 4 preamp ( I swap sometimes with a fantastic preamp built by my friend for me
(Sridhar)
4. I also have 811 based monoblocks driving the Zu's built by my friend
If I thought that the shelter 501 was good with vocals, the koetsu black is several notches better especially in the midrange. I cannot believe how the same vinyl sounds so much better (more details seem to be easily heard). Granted my shelter was old but this is really good. I have a month to evaluate the Koetsu black and in case I do not like it, I can exchange for a kiseki or others. But so far the Koetsu has been outstanding. Have not yet listed to rock etc with it.
Also, I have heard the same records played back with Lyra Delos; the Koetsu definitely seems better to my ears. The dealer who I bought the Koetsu from was suggesting that I should upgrade my player to a Merril with a kuzma 4 pt tonearm --) way over what I can afford right now.
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