Best Server To Run Roon Core

@jc51373 Can you share what you gained (overall impressions and results) by going to the "top of the line Antipodes" versus the Roon Nucleus?  Thanks.

@david_ten 

Hi David, pretty much all aspects of the presentation improved. Everything just seems quieter, calmer, more musical. So all the things that come along with that in any given system will vary I suppose, for me it was not a small difference from the Nucleus. Nucleus can be dry overall, but for the money does a great job. Is the K50 worth the extra cost? I think so, but like alot of impactful hifi gear it's expensive. So thats really a separate more subjective conversation. I am happy with the investment. 

@jc51373 

Thanks for your helpful response, Jeff. I'll PM you in a bit. 

A linear power supply and an upgraded DC cable is a critical addition, if you want to maximize SQ. I also recommend resonance control. 

@jmarshak : congratulations on the Roon lifetime membership purchase. It is the best purchase I have ever made in audio back in March 2017

Thanks @thyname

So as an update,

I have the nuc running Rock OS headless, in a fanless case. Roon UI is flying! Also, SQ improved. But not sure if improvement is due to the new Core setup, or because the new DAC is continuing to break-in. Regardless,I am not complaining!

Next, I would like to ad an LPS. I don’t have much hope that SQ will improve further, mainly because the core is not connected to the DAC directly (its connected through network), but figure it’s worth a try.

Apart for speed and “bandwidth”, the other benefit of your fanless NUC is a dedicated machine that runs headless 24/7 with no interruptions.

From my experience, since your Roon Core is not directly linked to DAC (I.e via USB cable), the LPS will not bring much to the table. That’s just my experience with a NUC first then Nucleus+. Some other people experienced an improvement. So you can definitely try for yourself.

I am using a Mac M1 mini Running Roon and HQplayer only. 

I am upsampling  everything to DSD512/ASDM7/poly-sinc-xtrr-mp-2s via HQPlayer. Runs flawlessly.

The rest of my system: McIntosh Mx-150/MC312 B&W Nautilus 803's

DIY solution for me. May be high end ATX build that combines server/streamer. May be high end NUC for server, combine with any number of streamer choices. Also depends on whether one is using I2S, usb or xlr on dac. May also run another music player software such as Euphony Stylus.

I now have the Fan-less NUC running on a nice linear power supply and I do like the sound better.  Basically I perceive a lower noise floor.  I did not think it was possible anymore, but I do like it better. Tried few days with Quboz and local files sitting on the core ssd drive.

Details: The NUC is connected to the network.  All of my network components run on linear power supplies (modem, router, switches).  I also use fiber for isolation and long distances runs. 

I fear that this finding unfortunately supports the 'everything matters' camp in the digital domain.  It also means that a lot more money will be spent in the future

Very interesting topic, thanks you for everyone contributed so far.
To better understand what really counts when running Roon a few additional questions if I may.
1) Are you connecting Roon core (server) directly to DAC or over the Ethernet? What would be the benefits to either one?
2) There seems to be roughly two camps NUC/MacMini type solutions and proper music servers. Which one should be used with which connectivity method to get the advantage?
I'm trying to understand these as would seem that running Roon core in NUC when using Ethernet would be fine, but in case one would use for example USB output then a proper music server hardware would be better option. Am I completely wrong here?

@jksec Running directly to dac generally means running out usb port on server, unless this is optimized with something like Jcat or Pink Faun usb card, not best way to go.

Running over ethernet gives one many options like separate streamer/end point/usb renderer, also can do FMC (fiber media conversion) or any number of filters like Acoustic Network Eno.

Issue with Nucs is lack of two ethernet ports, but if one is using network switch of less consequence. Macmini requires mods with diy lps like Uptone Audio MMK and JS-2. Macmini can be modified for two ethernet ports, advantage is don't need network switch.

Server direct to dac is convenience method. Ethernet via switch or direct mode is for maximum sound quality.

I’m still undecided. Setup will be router, server, Ayre QX-5 Twenty, and Google MESH node connected to an Ethernet switch upstairs. The server and QX-5 will be connected directly to Ethernet, but the utraRendu with LPS 1.2 and Ayre QB-9 DSD DAC downstairs will be on the Google MESH network.

Which server, a Mac Mini M1 or NUC? I’ve watched Darko’s NUC preparation, and hardware looks easy, not so software. If somebody sold prepared NUCs, I’d try one. Currently running Roon on a 2011 Mini that’s downstairs on the Google network. Sounds good to me, but I’m willing change out the server when I move it upstairs. Maybe rewatch Darko.

db

I’m also wondering what next steps to take in my digital sourcing. I use Roon almost exclusively. It’s in a headless mini (couldn’t tell you the last time I connected to a monitor to do anything with it, it just runs and runs and runs). Right now, I’m using HDMI out of the mini into an Oppo 205 as the ‘endpoint’ (I think that’s the right term), and then into the processor. I like that setup for when I’m watching/playing a disc, which is rare, as it means the connections and inputs don’t change. I can use the Oppo as the DAC and listen via the balanced outputs, or use the processors DAC by using the HDMI output that’s always connected anyway. Both the mini and the Oppo have Ethernet connections to the router (internet comes into the house right next the equipment rack). While I tend to be a ‘buy once, cry once’ buyer, I’m more interested in incremental steps for this to see what difference each change will make, while maintaining the reliability and ease of use I have now. Therefore I’m reading this thread and others with great interest, while at the same time trying not to get lost in the technical aspect…I get lost there very easily.

thanks to all that have posted their preferences and experiences so far. 

I briefly used USB from a Mini to an Oppo 205 with balanced analog to a pair of Parasound JC 1 monoblocks. Then I switched to USB from the Mini to an Ayre QB-9 DSD DAC with balanced analog through an Ayre K-5xeMP preamp to the JC 1s. A big jump in sound quality came with replacing the Oppo with the Ayre DAC and preamp. I added an ultraRendu with LPS 1.2 that sends USB to the Ayre DAC on the hunch that Roon finds devices connected to the Ethernet more reliably. Roon always finds the ultraRendu, but often didn’t find the Ayre DAC.

db

nice post. marked.

thanks for all folks.

i am planning to buy d DIY Fanless mini PC with 

i7 8550

32GB ram

128GB storage 

to run roon core.

Glad to hear. That’s an excellent option to start with. Works for me wonderfully.

I have tried a couple of Linear Power Supplies (LPS) and other tweaks with my NUC and have been really impressed with even the USB connection SQ to the DAC The Farad 3 LPS with their level 2-silver DC cable is found to be an especially excellent match. My friend and I also perform several isolation options inside which help as well. Scary satisfying sound coming out of the modified NUCs with our DACs, overall very pleasantly surprised.

“Scary satisfying sound coming out of the modified NUCs with our DACs,”

@jmarshak 

I bet your $20K DAC w/Roon end point has lot to do with the scary satisfying sound 😉

@lalitk so if I have a fairly optimized system running Roon core on a Nucleus+, and desire usb input and output, what should I consider as a core only upgrade?

@lalitk so if I have a fairly optimized system running Roon core on a Nucleus+, and desire usb input and output, what should I consider as a core only upgrade?

@fastfreight 

Are you using a linear power supply with Nucleus plus? I couldn’t tell from your system description…..something like Teddy Pardo PS would be a substantial upgrade. 

@lalitk 

HDPlex 18v

@fastfreight Won't get optimized usb out of Nucleus servers, usb directly off motherboards with these. Getting optimized usb on dedicated usb board will only come with much more costly streamers. To get superior usb out of Nucleus involves adding dedicated streamer such as SOTM, Sonore, etc.

Having said that, I'd agree with consensus or reviews finding adding lps of value.

@fastfreight 

If you are already using a LPS with Nucleus plus then the next (upgrade) step would be a custom made server with optimized USB. Consider reaching out to Wolf Audio for a tailor made solution. 

@sns Thanks.  I misspoke here; I have USB hard drive and Ethernet into Nucleus+, and Ethernet out to my Switch and streamer.

@lalitk Thanks, I have heard good things about Wolf.  My Nucleus is working fine, but I have a history of issues and repair.  It is about the last thing I have not taken to the next level.  BTW, I am awaiting Muon Pro from NA when available, and will be trying it in both of my systems and most likely keeping it in front of my Aries G2.1 Streamer.  Fortunately, the regular Muon works great into my Makua w. DAC and streamer, but not into my Aries, which craves the 1G input.  Take care!

@fastfreight 

Looking forward to your impressions on Pro vs Std Muon. There is a custom NUC option readily available off Amazon but not sure how much of an upgrade that would be over Nucleus +.  Many user reported issues / repairs with Nucleus so I recognize at some point you will be getting a replacement. 

@lalitk, Hello!   I now have my Muon Pro Streaming System (which means includes the second cable, which is by the way distinct for the Pro version). 

Recall I have Gateway 1100 Verizon Modem > JCAT M12 gold cable > M12 Gold Switch w/ Jcat Optimo 3 power supply > M12 Cable > Nucleus +

                                                             >M12 Cable > JCAT Net Isolator (coupler) >

Supra Cat 8 20 M >(WITH OR WITHOUT MUON PRO FILTER SYSTEM) > Aries G2.1 Streamer w LPS > USB (K-S Realization)  > Mola Mola Tambaqui > Audionet Pre and amps.

So I tried with and without the Muon Pro directly in front of my streamer. I listened casually for a few days to run it in, then did some serious A/B switching the Muon Pro in and out.  My wife has good ears and for her it was blind as I was the wizard behind the components.

1)  I had no issues with turning the Aries on and off and changing the cables quickly, and the Aries connected immediately.  This is showing the Gigabit put through of the Muon Pro vs the bottleneck I had with the previous regular Muon.

2) The Muon Pro adds significant improvement to our ears vs the straight-in Supra cat 8.  The sound was bigger, richer, more enveloping and just plain more pleasurable.  There was no doubt to us, and it was immediate.

3) The Muon Pro is connected with another JCAT Net Isolator into the Network Acoustics Muon Pro cables, One is hardwired out of the Muon Filter; the other is the second Muon Pro Network cable going from the Net Isolator (coupler) into the Muon filter.  My point here is that the second Muon Pro cable AND the JCAT Net Isolator could be helping.  Certainly Rich at NA says the second Muon Pro cable is important.  An interesting test would be to simply use the Net Isolator and one Muon Pro cable (leaving the Filter out) and see if they help by themselves.  This is only academic to me, as I love the sound of the Muon Pro Filter.

4) I can soon test the original Muon Filter against the Muon Pro  in my Mola Mola Makua system.  The embedded streamer is less sensitive to the 1G requirement, and works flawlessly with the original Muon.

@fastfreight

Thanks for sharing your impressions. I am glad to hear you’re loving the Muon Pro, the praises are unanimous so far with streamers that are designed for 1Gb/s Ethernet. I find it quite interesting Muon Pro’s impact ahead of M12 switch which is pretty phenomenal on its own. I wonder if the long run of Supra CAT 8 is somewhat diminishing M12 efficacy over such long distance from Aries. An interesting test would be to remove M12 from the equation and listen to Aries with Muon Pro to access if you miss M12 performance.

I have been eyeing upcoming Telegartner’s OPT BRIDGE 1000M, according to Marcin (JCAT) using OPT BRIDGE ahead of M12 adds clarity, improves articulation while making the sound more analogue. He was skeptical given the price of BRIDGE powered by OPTIMO 3 DUO but the improvement is substantial enough to take the plunge 😊

Hello,  tonight I was able to do a head to head comparison of the original Muon Filter System and the new Muon Pro filter System.  Using my Mola Mola Makua  (the Makua is an amazing pre-amp with optional onboard Tambaqui DAC and Streamer), Audionet Max amps, Revel Salon 2 speakers and REL subs, I was able to easily swap in and out the Muon and Muon Pro.  My Makua (unlike my Aries G 2.1) easily accepts ethernet through either the Muon (100Mb/s) or the new Pro version (1G/s).

I listened each way for over and hour, then, formulating a clear opinion, I switched in and out for specific tracks. I was able to hear the difference each time within seconds.  The Pro is more engaging, more immersive, richer, tonally more pleasing, more relaxing, yet still just as resolving and tingly. I used Liberty; Alison Krauss and Union Station, It Doesn't Matter; Mark Knopfler, The Scaffolder's Wife; Old Genesis, and Chris Botte, Summertime.  The soundstage on Summertime is sky high with the Pro!

@Lalitk, I would like to experiment with placement of the M12 switch.  I do suspect it would sound best in front of ONE of my streamers.  But I need the switch where it is - between my Modem, Server and both Streamers.  Moving it around requires unhooking lots of things (specific M12 Telegartner cables), inserting an inferior switch etc.  Perhaps I will get to this.  Or perhaps I will order a Grimm MU1! 😜

“Or perhaps I will order a Grimm MU1!”

@fastfreight 

You certainly can but another user of MU1 also found Muon Pro + Rubicon switch to be highly effective ahead of MU1 :-)

Hello @lalitk , 100% agree!  I would keep my Muon Pro and M12 in front of  MU1.

The Grimm would run Roon Core (Server)  and AES (Streamer) into my Tambaqui, and also serve to my second system's streamer via LAN.  Only downside is not being able to use AES from Grimm MU1 into BOTH of my DAC's!  If had only read amazing things about MU1's AES output into the Tambaqui.