Best Headphone system under $1000???
Don’t know why but I went all in with a headphone setup just recently. I’m a redbook CD guy using Sonos and that’s not going to change - too darned convenient for me. Sonos > Benchmark DAC3 B (DAC, only - no volume / amp / headphone jack / ..) > Woo Audio WA2 > Sennheiser HD800S. Kimber Silver analogs and digital cable. It’s been awhile since I’ve been ’taken someplace new’ with music. (Also considered the Chord Qutest. Got turned off by the 'filters'. I wanted as pure a signal to the tubes, as possible. I contacted Benchmark and they said to not worry about jitter - the Benchmark will take care of that. I had told them I have an Empirical Audio PaceCar 2 I could put into the mix). |
How would you compare the Audeze LCD 2 against the Focal Elex headphones?They are both excellent headphones. The LCD 2 is going to have more bass and be a little more "rolled off" at the high end (the Audeze "house sound"). They still provide good detail and excel in the mid-range. The Elex is going to be a little more neutral throughout the frequency range and I find them more comfortable to wear. Which isn't to say that the Elex lack bass or that the LCD 2 is uncomfortable. The Elex has good bass response and maybe a little more "realistic". One of the things I like about Audeze is they come with really nice earpads and are comfortable from that standpoint, but they are a little on the heavy side. I suggest checking out Headfi and Innerfidelity for in-depth reviews of both. |
Geoffkait- I’m actually leaning toward vintage Sylvanias. I had Shuguang Black Treasure CV181z tubes, and they surpassed NOS with my old pre, but they’re very pricey and I’m wondering if it’s as critical in this Woo amp. I bought it used and it came with a Sophia Princess 274b rectifier, which is pretty well regarded, but considering a Mullard GZ34in that spot. Might call Andy at VTS. Bstatmeiser and big_greg: Appreciate thoughts on cable... I was actually looking at litz braided upocc cable from a company called Dyson Audio. About $135 for a 2 meter. I can definitely hear clear differences between ICs, PCs, and speaker cable, but it does require lots of A/B tests and tweaking. For me, that’s part of the fun, but I respect those who don’t hear it. They’re saving lots of money! Once I empty more of my wallet, I will post again with impressions!😀 |
In regards to your question about cables, I have Focal Elex and Sony MDR-Z1R headphones, which both have the same connectors. I've used a few different cables, mostly mid-grade to inexpensive cables. To me, there is not a noticeable difference between cables, which is also my experience with interconnects, speaker cables, etc. I buy cables for fit and finish, length, different connectors (balanced, single-ended), not for sound quality. Which isn't to say that there aren't differences in sound quality, but that unless I A/B them back and forth repeatedly, there aren't differences noticeable enough (to me - your hearing may be more sensitive) to make me prefer one cable over another. |
Update- I’m officially on the head-fi crazy train now. I purchased a Woo Audio WA-6 amp to replace the Atom, and have enjoyed a fairly significant improvement with the Focal Elex cans. In my former 2 channel system I really loved my 6SN7 & 5ar4 based tube preamp, and the Woo uses these same tubes. If any of you out there have specific tube recommendations for the WA-6, please share. Also, curious if anyone with the Focal Elex has dabbled with cable upgrades? it may be a waste of money, but I definitely fall into the “believer” category for audible improvements with speaker and power cord upgrades. Thank you for any advice. |
Update- with the Focal Elex, the JDS Atom amp, and my MHDT Stockholm 2 DAC, things are sounding pretty damn good. I do have a VD Nite II power cord running into the DAC and a pretty high $ IC from amp to DAC (stupid considering cost of headphones and amp?) but I’d say the PRAT, detail, and immersive soundstage rivals and in some ways exceeds my full size rig. Hopefully, I can manage to just relax and enjoy the tunes for awhile! |
This is fun- haven't created a thread with this many responses in quite awhile. I'm still waiting on my little Atom amp and in the meantime, beginning to surf the web looking at IEMs too. Anyone have recommendations for an IEM that leans more toward the warm side of neutral and has exceptional sound staging/imaging? I might explore this realm of headphonia too, but probably wouldn't want to spend more than $300 |
For those trying out grados for the first time the Grado PS500e is easily their best IMO. It has all the details of the others or more but softens the 2k midrange spike and has a lesser more balanced treble. Makes for a relatively warmer Grado (still bright). Sadly I had to get two pairs to get one with good driver matching. Order from some somewhere you can return them... I have owned/used the following grados and choose the PS500e. PS1000e (scooped out mids, they call it soundstage, I call it messed up tonal balance) PS500e (good, light/fast sounding and punchy like good monitors, a little bright still, I love the close vocals). GH1 (a lot like the PS500e but more colored mids, you can hear the wood in the bass for better or worse) GS2000e (uhm no, really bad, just no, ear tweeters, funky soundstage) RS2e (brighter and less bass than the PS500e, small spike at 2k) RS1e (I don’t really rember these...) RS325(pretty bright, probably the brightest Grado I owned, ok other wise) RS225e (light on bass, more open mids from the models down, a poor mans RS1/2) RS80e (Best buy, most of the Grado sound for under $100) RS60e (warmer of the grados. Tuned like the PS500e but less open and detailed acrossed the whole frequency range. |
Tried the Focal Elear and Focal Clear today in a shop and fell to sleep. Moved to the Sennheiser HD820 and woke up. Sounded like my near-fields but a little thin and less dynamic. Very good separation though. Not too much impressed for that kind of money. They all need a special amp. The one used was the Sennheiser HDV 820. Beyer DT990 Pro seems like a good value... |
I use phones for late night reading mostly, and after wearing out some very old Grado SR60s (I like the Grado "house sound") I replaced them with SR80s...improvement for sure...running an old iPhone that still connects with the net as a source. I recently bought a couple of Schiit Magni 3 amps (for bedroom and main system) and Grado SR325e aluminum body phones...amazing SQ that surprised me really, and they sounded great immediately with a world of difference over the el cheapo 60s and 80s. Found some "G" (large over-ear pads with hole in the middle, sold with top of Grado line phones, and 50 bucks from Grado) ear pad clones for around 12 bucks shipped from China...very comfy at least compared to stock ear pads. |
Headphones just like speakers all sound very different from each other. IMO I would tell you headphones are better than speakers for all things other than visceral impact and sound stage. Do I enjoy headphones more? No I value sound stage too and impact too much. But some of these new headphones really are special. Keep in mind that a pair of headphones is pretty much a microphone in revirse. One drive, no crossover, controlled environment, crazy efficient, less box/housing noise, etc. some headphones are a total mess though (very colored) and I think just now in the last few years with all the portable music craze we are starting to see real improvements in the highend headphone market. I would argue high-end headphones are just now starting to be made. For years you bought sennhisers or grados for the most part. Now you have startups pushing limits and big power houses like Focal pushing the state of the art. Focal’s first try pretty much equaled or bettered (IMO) what was out in the passed. It will be interesting to see how they push forward over the next few years. |
@gosta https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare/akg-k701-vs-beyerdynamic-dt-990-pro/326/329?usage=49... They indeed show less outout at around 1kHz and a wider “soundstage” for the AKG. Take note that their definition of imaging and soundstage are not like the definitions for speakers, they use “imaging” in regards to reproducing what’s in the track and “soundstage” in regards to emulating listening to stereo loudspeakers in a room. They rate the AKG as more comfortable (less clamping force), but do also show the Beyerdynamic as being more breathable, which also factors into comfort. |
Very interesting discussion. I’m rather new to phones (speaker guy) and just bought the Beyer DT 990 Pro with the Topping DX3 Pro dac and amp. After googling and for a start. I like it but would be fine to have your opinions. I also have the AKG (Quincy) 701 which have no warm at all. Just a precise working tool maybe. I find the DT 990 a little smaller in soundstage and a little less emphasis on the mids than the AKG 701. The AKG can easily be a bit too much for long-time listening. The DT990 for me non-fatiguing but still very clear and well-balanced. And very very comfortable. However, based on this short experience headphones will never ever be instead of speakers :-) But is a fine reference for evaluating your speaker sound. |
@lincnabby The $770 Monoprice Liquid Platinum is a hybrid amp, the $100 Monoprice Liquid Spark is solid-state. Also, the tube really does nothing, the frequency response is flat and the output impedance is “normal”, so it will not add any warmth (bass boost due to high output impedance, and possibly an engineered treble roll-off) compared to a true tube amp. ____ As for a preamp for the Atom, the Atom already is one, it has a volume knob and can gain th incoming signal if needed (the output of your DAC shouldn’t need gaining). |
Thank you for the info @umn I will find it hard to not live with that 6sn7 sound. I’m enjoying the Focal Elex right now with my tube based MHDT DAC, and a temporary solution with an old Yamaha receiver as I await a JDS Labs Atom HP amp. I also have Senn HD6xx cans. I prefer the Elex on this non-ideal system, but still would like more of the warmth and soundstage of tubes. I’ll update once the Atom arrives. |
Continued... Expect to pay around $500 for a used WA6 1st gen. (The newer 2nd gen. will not accept 6SN7's even with the necessary adapters. But you may be fine anyway.) You will need around $200 plus, for the adapters and tube upgrades. One nice thing about the well reviewed WA6 is that it will work with both low & high impedance headphones. |
I made the switch to headphones a year ago and haven't looked back. The musical signature of a good headphone system is that you enveloped by sound. Traditional speaker systems are characterized as the listener is sitting in the first rows, or the orchestra seats, etc. With a a good headphone set-up you are is sitting in the middle of the performers themselves. I listen to jazz and classical. My headphones are Massdrop HD-6xx. ($200) My amp is Woo Audio WA6 1st gen. I use Sylvania VT231 (6SN7) as driver tubes. Lots of air and prat. Good |
I have older 2CEs and an Odyssey Khartago. PM me if you're putting your system up for sale! ("
For reference, my big system has Vandersteen 2CE Sig 2s, Odyssey Kismet amp"). The Kismet intrigues me! As for headphones, I love my Sennheiser 650s, and the Schitt headphone amps are wonderful. To do a lot better I think you'd have to spend at least 2X as much. |
If you want dac built in to amp (all in one), likely nothing better for the money than the massdrop THX AAA 789. I think it's right around 500 bucks, but from what I understand it is a lightning quick amp that makes for superb Dynamics. Otherwise, I would probably get a Schiit modi (DAC) 99 bucks, to go with the JDS Atom (amp) also 99 bucks. No preamp needed since we are talking about headphones not normal 2 channel stereo. |
@bstatmeister or @mzkmxcv- does the JDS Labs Atom Amp require a separate preamp for me to run it with my MHDT DAC? I’m hoping not, as it seems like many of the HP products combine components, such as amp/pre/dac. Im also wondering if there’s an amp/pre combo I should consider since I could easily unload my non-head-fi DAC for $600 or $700. As per usual, so many variables to consider... |
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https://www.ebay.com/i/292882883497?chn=ps&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%2... Meze 99 Classics Walnut Silver Headphones (Silver Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EJMYOHO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Wp0GCb5HW0C7M |
Enjoy a great hobby, here’s my two cents... I currently have the HiFiman Anandas, they are right at the 1k price point. They are huge, but light weight. Sound is amazing, best I’ve owned. They can run easily off a phone but as with most, sound better with better DACs/Amps. I’ve had Audeze LCD-X (way too heavy, ok sound), the Massdrop HD-6xx (ok but un-dynamic sound, no-go with a phone), and still own as a back-up Audioquest Nightowls, which sound great but have been discontinued as Audioquest got out of the headphone business. They are a great used bargain if you can find them, usually $150.00 to $200.00. Just for info, I use a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, which is a DAC/Amp combo, and listen through a balanced set-up. Source is a Dell Desktop Windows 10 with Tidal, and more recently Qobuz, as my music sources, both at the highest quality available. I have a LG V30+ Android phone and an Audioquest Dragonfly DAC/Amp that I sometimes use for late night listening, often wirelessly with Bowers and Wilkens PX noise cancelling headphones. The phone transmits the high quality Apt-X HD version of Bluetooth, which the B&W headphones accept. Very happy with the SQ of the headphones, but they could use a bit bigger earpieces for my big ears! |
The Elex will be effected by the amps output impedance more than the HD6XX (80 ohms vs 300) As the output impedance goes up the bass will get louder (also effects damping) and this is probably not what you want with the Elex as it is already a little warm. Typically tube amps have higher output impedances than solid state amps but there are no absolutes. I have never tried mine on a tube amp and honestly I am not to up and up on my tube amp knowledge. Here is a detailed article on amp impedance’s effect on headphones. https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance |
I was able to buy Cary HH-1 and Sennheiser HD 700 for less than $1,000 in total, each new from manufacturer just by keeping an eye out and jumping when the opportunity arose. Cary had a flash sale on the HH-1 for Christmas 2017... I am quite impressed with the combination. When they died, I replaced the stock Electro-Harmonix 6922EH with Genalex -Gold Lion E88CC/6922 for marginal improvement in tonal qualities. Most people find these Sennheisers too bright, but this amp curbs that in just the right way. The sound is lively, tight bass, revealing and seemingly neutral while still having that tubey je ne sais quoi. |
You can get more ideas from reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones If you want to try more headphones I recommend Beyer Dynamics. Dt1990 is said to be very good and details. I have the Amiron Home which are a bit softer. They are both probably better than your HD6xx but not as good as the Elex. |
I’m now in a bit of a conundrum. I’ll be getting the Focal Elex cans soon, and also have the Senn HD6XX. Wondering if I should just be frugal and get the JDS Labs Atom amp for starters to listen to both? Since I don’t have the Elex yet, I’m not certain, but imagine they’ll be the ones I keep. I like the liquid sound of tubes and have a tube based DAC. Do you think the Atom and Elex with tube DAC will suffice? Ultimatley, I know my ears will be the final judge. Still more opinions are welcomed. |
I hear the Bottlehead’s are awesome, but you are talking about much more $$ and you’ll have to build it from the kit. For $99 nothing is better than JDS Labs Atom (well, the monoprice Liquid Spark is nearly identical to the Atom sound quality wise, so they say) so you can’t go wrong either way. I know the Schiit Magni for $99 is also a tremendous deal, but I hear the sound quality may not quite be up to par with the Atom or the liquid spark. I love Schiit Audio overall though, great products. |
Thanks again guys! My impulse control failed miserably as I just bought a pair of the 6xx’s and also saw a decent deal today for the Focal Elex’s, so I made an offer. It will be fun to compare both. Regarding amps, I’m planning on checking out the JDS Labs recommendation. Is this just a good match with the Sennheisers or would it mate well with the Focals too? I understand that the Focals are more efficient. Also- any opinions on the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball mod kit? Going DIY to save on a possibly good amp sounds like fun. But not sure about impedance matching. So much to learn. Hopefully with all of your help I will avoid potentially expensive mistakes. |
One of the great things about the HD-6XX is that since the HD-600/650 have been around forever there are a lot of aftermarket accessories for them - cables, earpads, etc. Putting some nice earpads on mine made them a lot more comfortable. I didn't notice a huge difference in sound quality as some claim, but the comfort level went up. You may need to purchase a plate, depending on which earpads you get. Check out modhouseaudio.com for those. I don't remember which earpads I bought, but there are a number of choices out there including Dekoni, ZMF, Brainwavs, and more. |
Lincnabby, You will like the HD6XX.They may not wow you at first but they are excellent with no major issues that so many other headphones have. I am always interested to hear the perspective of headphones from someone into speakers. I started with headphones in college and moved to speakers for about 15 years. I tried to go back to headphones after owning a good speaker system... I almost pulled it off but in the end I miss the impact/slam of the speakers. Most people miss the sound-stage. I had a good two year stretch where I just used headphones (by choice) 90% of the time but now I am back to speakers most of the time and only use headphones if the kiddo is sitting with me (she often does) in my audio room. Headphones will show you what is wrong with your speaker system and your speaker system will show you what you are missing with the headphones. |
@lincnabby That Massdrop tube amp is decent, but the JDS Labs Atom is better and cheaper. It may or may not be audible, but that Massdrop tube amp leaks power supply noise (multiples of 60Hz), so a power conditioner with noise filtration may be warrented, whereas the JDS Labs Atom does not have this issue. |
Update. I found a pair of Senn 6xx on my local craigslist for $160. I think I’ll give them a try. Also will probably try out the Cavalli CTH from Massdrop for $299. I’m a tweaker by nature so this will probably end up being just the beginning of experimentation. I wish I could find the Focal Elex somewhere used. Gotta sell some other stuff before i start dropping larger amounts of cash. I’ll update you all on this thread as to my impressions on this first combo. Thanks again to all! |
