I'm not sure it's fair to lump the Rowland 201 with any previous Rowland products. I don't know that you are Unsound, but in case. (And it could be fair. The only other Rowland amp I know well is the Model 1, which hardly counts.)
I have not heard the 201's with 3.6's, but with my 2.4's, I simply cannot imagine a better match, and I find myself succumbing to a case of warrenh disease, if you know what I mean. :-) |
Drubin, I'm guilty as charged. |
Tom, I haven't actualy heard them, but, considering the pedigrees and history with Thiel, you migh want to consider Threshold and Coda. |
Well, I did get the chance to audition my 3.6's with a couple of amps yesterday. My first thoughts were amazement at just how well the CS3.6's can sound! :^) In addition to listening to one of my GFA-555II's, I auditioned McCormack DNA-225, Theta Enterprise monoblocks, Theta Intrepid, and EDGE NL-10. The DNA-225 quickly dropped out of the running. It's tonal balance was fine, and its low end control was very good, but it seemed to fall on its face in the imaging and depth/width of soundstage. In truth, the 555II noticeably exceeded the DNA-225 in all of these regards (which shocked me), although the Adcom was otherwise clearly outclassed by the McCormack. The Theta Enterprises sounded absolutely marvelous. Great tonal balance, and a level of detail, imaging and soundstage that blew me away, with controlled, natural low end, and a bit of a high end sheen. Very musical for a solid state amp. The Enterprises really showed me what the Thiels could do. Ideally, I wanted to hear a Dreadnaught II with the 3.6's, but all they had was an Intrepid. Talk about an eye-opener! That 5-channel, 100 watt amp has no right to sound as good as it does with those 3.6's! Especially considering the price. It most definitely captures the "Theta sound", and while it lacked the level of detail, separation, and depth of soundstage that the Enterprises offer, its tonal balance, width of soundstage, and low end performance were remarkably similar to the much costlier monoblocks.
At a different location, I had an opportunity to audition the EDGE NL-10. This is a very fast, neutral amp. It pushed the 3.6's with ease, and really brought out the best of their dynamic ability. Given that I was in very different rooms, with vastly different associated gear, it was difficult to really compare the NL-10 to the Enterprises, but I can definitely say that they are in the same league. Both made my Thiels do things that I had never heard before. If I had to try to articulate a comparison, and considering all of the other variables, I'd say that the NL-10 was noticeably faster, and had extreme dynamic control, and was quite possibly more neutral, but the Enterprises were more sweet and musical, and had perhaps a bit more low end fullness.
While I haven't completely ruled out EDGE, I am thinking of using the Intrepid for my center and surrounds, and either getting a 2-channel Dreadaught II or the Enterprises for my 3.6's. Yes, going the Enterprise route pretty much blows my "affordable" thing, but they really did make those Thiels sing.
Tom. |
BTW, in case anyone is following this anymore, I ended up with a pair of Enterprises in addition to the Intrepid. All I can say is, "Wow!" I did get a chance to audition the Edge NL-10 in my home, and it doesn't come close to matching the open, spacious feel of the Enterprises, nor does it sound as musical. It is a bit analytical by comparison. I'd say the NL-10 is indeed slightly faster, but the difference here was nowhere near as big as the advantage to the Thetas in soundstage and imaging.
Now, to upgrade pre/pro and source components!
Thanks again to all who helped me with this decision making process. You folks really were very helpful.
Tom. |
Tom
I am wondering at what point you decided to up the anty from your original goal of around $2000.00 for an amplifier?!?
Unless I am mistaken didn't you end up spending three times that much or so?
I also am curious at what price level did the performance inmprovement really hit you.
Congatulations also.
Ed |
Yes, indeed, my budget theory got shot through the roof! ;^) What did it for me was auditioning amps. I had my old Adcom GFA-555II with me for a reference, and what I found was that stepping up to a $2,000-3,000 amp had some benefits, but still, there were some things that the old Adcom did better than these amps. Once I heard the Enterprises, though, the difference was shocking. Not to name names, but compared to another manufacturer's $3,000.00 amp, they beat it in every category, and significantly blew it's doors off in imaging and soundstage (which are important to me). Then, I did a head to head, in my home comparison versus a modded Edge NL-10 (retail of over $12,000), and the Enterprises also beat them handily (to my ears, at least).
I think that once I heard just how good my 3.6's can sound with excellent amplification, I didn't want to go back to anything else. That, and an unexpected inflow of cash helped out. :^)
FWIW, my favorite amp at close to the $2,000 mark was actually the Theta Intrepid driving just the Thiels. That "little" Intrepid just amazes me. It doesn't have the depth of soundstage, or the detail of the Enterprises, but it is very balanced, quite capable in the lows, and has very good width of soundstage.
Tom. |
>"I think that once I heard just how good my [3.6's] can sound with excellent >[amplification], I didn't want to go back to anything else."
Man, how many times have we all said that! |
When will the Madness stop?!?!
A friend of mine has a perfect condition Plinius amp just sitting in his basement and I hear it calling to me from here.
Luckily so far I have listened to amps so far out of reach I have never really considered them seriously but his Plinius is looking mighty attractive.
I am in the business and can likely obtain about anything at cost but this is here now and tempting. Know what I mean?
Tom,I asked about your change in direction as this thread mentions "affordable" at least at first.
Unfortunatly these speakers can really benefit from Crazy Price Electonics.
Whose fault is that?
I didn't mean to get them ......really,I just can't help myself |
If I could edit the header on this thread I would. Perhaps I should call it something like:
"Thiel CS3.6's, and the Uberamps that Drive Them" or
"How my Thiels sucked my wallet dry"
Really, though, it is a testament to the great value of these speakers that they are able to show just what really good amps are able to do. The upside of all of this is that I find myself listening to (and enjoying) music more and more since picking up the Thiels (and the gear that followed). And ultimately, that is what it's all about.
Tom. |
The new Rowland monoblocks sound sensational with 2.4's, might be powerful enough for the 3.6's as well. |
Tom,
Before you bought the Enterprises, did you by any chance listen to any of the Krell FPB series amps with your 3.6's? I have the same speakers, and I'm considering getting a used pair of 250M monoblocks. I would be interested to know how you thought the sound of the 3.6's driven by the Enterprises compared to them being driven by the Krells.
Thanks, Alan |
No, I was rather disappointed that I was not able to compare the Enterprises to an FPB series Krell. I have heard that if you want incredibly strong bass, then nothing pushes Thiel speakers like Krell amps. However, I was more concerned about accurate bass, which is an area where the Thetas excel. The Thetas are also supposedly a bit sweeter on the high end (and I can attest to the fact that they are very musical on the highs - more so than the Edge, for sure). Still, it would have been a great comparison to make.
Tom. |
I've been using the PS HCA2 for three years with mine- the sound is gorgeous and there is plenty of horsepower on tap. The best bang for the buck wtih the 3.6s, I'm sure. |
Since June 2005, when I made a number of changes to my system, I've been driving my 3.6s with a pair of the Rowland 201 monoblocks, and I've been very pleased with the combination. The sound is smoother, fuller, more relaxed and more natural, while at the same time more detailed, than it was before. I can only echo what Gnobber said on 1-22-04: it's amazing how the 3.6s reward you whenever a higher quality component is inserted upstream -- the improvement is immediately audible! |
Hi Tom and others. I've read this post with much interest. And although I see it's old, on the outside chance that there is email notifications on new posts, I put this here as well. I've just posted a question that refreshes all of this discussion, as I've just purchased a set of Thiel 3.6s, and am looking to outfit the speakers with an appropriate amp. --Or at the very least, an upgrade path that begins with an affordable solution for the time being. As Tom's post seems to conclude, Theta is a well-recommended brand; and I see an opportunity to purchase a Casablanca unit. But this seems to be not an amp, but controller/pre-amp of sorts. And although most people, across this entire discussion, are saying >200 watts per channel, it was interesting that the Theta Intrepid was 100 wpc. The system I was originally looking at was Denon AVR-x7200, as this brought me many of the features I was looking for: music focus ability, then 4k passthrough HT, Airplay and/or AppleTV, Internet radio, and Network attached storage for lossless-type play. Could you give me some thoughts please? Or perhaps review my just-placed post for thoughts? https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/recommended-amp-for-thiel-3-6-newbieThanks much! |
Tom-
I love Thiel speakers as well. These things crave high-current, so keep this fact in mind when choosing power amps.
Keep me posted & Happy listening! |
