Hi guys, today's technology has brought us a new type of tweeter made of diamond or beryllium. Do you know what are the strengths and weaknesses of diamond vs beryllium? Which one is the more expensive? Has today's dome tweeter better resolving power than the venerable electrostat? Jim Thiel once said that dynamic designs will be getting better all the time and will probably surpass electrostatic designs.
Kost, it is not the point, if you can’t understand that a Ferrari engine transplanted into a family sedan won’t make a family sedan into a race car.
A race car is a race car, the same way that a Ferrari makes a poor cross country vehicle for conveying a family.
A high performance loudspeaker is not going to sound good on really cheapie electronics, as the really cheapie electronics are adding distortions to the speakers as well as not really being able to control the loudseakers.
The SAE amplifier that you mentioned if it is the new SAE amplifier was lambasted by Stereophile for sounding too bright.
We are not making any false arguement please go to a good shop or one that you might have a friend in, and ask them to hook up your amplifier with your cables and sources and listen to the speakers before and after and you will see that electronics absolutely make or break a system.
Kost your Lotus point completely misses the point, a performance based product will only sound as good as what you use with it and how it is setup. It is that simple.
Please answer the question:
A 660 hp Ferrari engine can push any car right? What if we dropped this engine in a Toyota Camry do you think this abomination would perform like a Ferrari?
Would the Ferrari engined Toyota Camry handle like, brake like, have the drive feel of the Ferrari?
The answer is of course No, a Ferrari performs like a Ferrari because the engine, drive train, brakes, and handling components are matched together working together in unison.
Take any part away and substitute any lesser part and watch the performance fall apart.
Lets make an audio analogy, $150,000.00 pair of speakers being driven by a $300 Yamaha receiver on zip cord,playing over Blu Tooth, do you think the $150,000.00 pair of speakers is going to sound good or horrific?
We suppose you think that electronics don't impact the sound of a system, and cables are bunk and the only thing that matters is the speaker correct?
Sure only the speakers matter lets listen to the above listed $150,000.00 speakers on the Receiver playing Blu tooth, and lets talk.
Kost you really dont understand any of this do you7
Almost any competant amplifier can drive any loudspeaker that doesnt mean that the resulting match would sound good.
A 660 hp Ferrari engine can push any car right? What if we dropped this engine in a Toyota Camry do you think this abomination would perform like a Ferrari?
Amplifiers cables sources all sound dlfferent just because you heard them at a dealer or that the dealer sells expensive stuff doest mean that dealer can create great sound.
Many dealers will give up if a product doesnt sound good to them instantly or is not selling for them, it takes time to figure out a product your dealer may not be willing to or doesnt have the desire to find matching gear.
Tell you a story we were invited to hear a pair of 9H when they were first being shown to dealers.
Thc shop tbat had the speakers was a one room, mid fi shop their best electronics a 3k Musical Fidelity amp inexpensive cables and a Blu Sound Node.
Know what we didnt like the sound elthe but we dld find that the speakers were doing some things well.
When we got our samples and found the right combination of electronics and matching components did we make maglc.
Again, you are repeating the same stuff I’ve already said I disagree with.Repeating it again doesn’t help.
If you are drastically changing the sound of speakers via a DAC, you are using poorly designed DACs. (A lot of those going around in high-end, yet charging more for them).
If you need to drastically change the sound in order for a speaker to sing, then it says something negative about the speaker.
I know you are in in the "everything makes a difference" camp, which is one reason why I would not rely on you for audio advice (sorry to be blunt).
And I never said the Personas were "too clear" for me. In fact as I said, they sounded less clear than the B&Ws. Mostly, I just don’t care for the overall timbral quality of that speaker. And as you know I’m hardly the first to find the high frequencies of the Persona fatiguing. I’ve seen many mentions. And it’s not surprising given you can see the "smiley face" top end rise in measurements made of the speaker.
I’m not saying they are bad speakers at all. They are quite accomplished speakers and have very competitive technology for their price.
Look we all know you tout the Persona’s are the best thing since sliced bread and you’ll defend them to the death. Any of us audiophiles can get annoying about a product we are infatuated with, but hearing it over and over from a salesman with a vested interest in selling them can be even more tiresome.
Your quote:
while the dealer said "Oh, that’s because they are being powered by THIS amp, or DAC, or cable, let me switch to this one..." only to hear the same essential character remain.
If a dealer can't change the sound of his loudspeakers by chainging electronics or digital that doesn't speak well for the dealer.
We can dramatically change the sound of a speaker by just changing a dac, if you have a brighter cleaner speaker, use a tube or warm based dac, the Light Hamonic Davinci running DSD, the T+A digital, the Aqua Hifi.
You want to bring out more detail in a wamer sounding speaker go to Mytek or the T+A Dac 8,
You want wam and punchy use Naim.
This dealer that you heard the Personas might not have what we would call the right equipment, Bryston amplifiers are too clean to be a good match same with Ayre and a few others, you need a wamer tubier sounding solid state brand, T+A or Naim are really magical with the Personas. The new Krell gear also sounds great, the Anthem separates are good, the integrated is not good enough, the Micromega M100/M150 are great.
This is where we differ Prof, we tune a system by chainging, cables, power conditioners, digital etc, till the system sounds really good.
The Personas are super revealing but if you tune them right the speakers perform against extremely expensive speakers.
In our demo room we had the Polymer Audio Research a $68k speaker with Acution Diamond Midrange and Tweeter in a 300 lb all metal enclosure,
We also had demoed a pair of Kharma Exsquite Classiques at $120k set of speakers all on the T+A electronics, top of the line digital cabling ect.
In both examples these uber speakers were not sounding better just different we sold off the Polymers which were very impressive but not twice as good, and sent back the Kharmas as thanks but not worth $120k.
Prof you should take a road trip to hear what a set of well setup Persona can actually sound like.
We are not saying you will magically fall in love with them, they still might be too clear for you, but we think you would come away suitablly impressed that they are really quite extraordinary loudspeakers and are a bargain for the price.
Again, audiotroy, you are writing as if I would never have experienced swapping between CD players, servers, DACs etc.
Aside from having done plenty of my own CDP/DAC swapping tests (including blind testing!), I’ve experienced countless different DACs in other set ups. As I’ve said, the voice of speakers has remained constant as I’ve heard them in various systems, which inevitably means with different DACs (and amps etc).
I’m familiar with everything you could say on this subject, and as it happens I’ve come to my own opinions.
It’s nice to see your enthusiasm for the hobby, even though we differ on some things.
Prof there will always be a house sound with a product, however, you can change some of the characteristics of that product depending on cables, electronics and sources. If the dealer changed the dac and the sound didn't change that means that the dac swapped isn't a different sounding dac then the original dac or that something in the system was masking these differences. We can totally change the sound of a system just by changing a dac.
Our dacs are tube based or solid state based on the product we are demoing and they really do sound different Dave and TroyAudio Doctor
Kosst it has nothing to do with load, it has to do with creating a system where the parts are balanced and work together.
The Persona series has excellent dynamic capabilities. Are they as dynamic as a horn no they are not but with a suitable amp they have plenty of drive.
We have heard 70 watt tube amplifiers with great drive, as well as 300 watt stereo amplifiers. So it sounds like the system you heard the Personas in wasn't' balanced to work in that room.
Prof, 100+++ Speakers are the weakest link by far and will be responsible for the overall sound of a system regardless of anything accept the worst components up stream. If a cable changes the sound of a system it is a bad cable. Good ones have no sound of their own. I use Canare wire. Prof uses Beldon. Both perfectly fine. Cable length is perhaps the most important factor and when you make your own you can size them perfectly. It sickens me that so many of us fall for the idiotic marketing of manufacturers who have only one goal in mind and that is to make money. Nothing else. While I am at it, audiophiles use to build stuff. From amps to cables to speakers. It seems the modern audiophile is just a consumer of products for the sole purpose of satisfying their ego. They have no idea how to handle a soldering iron let alone design a speaker. I have been ostracized for using drivers in a clever way because a few people think they know what is going on by reading static specs. Unbelievable. Instead of being quizzical and asking me why I designed a speaker in such a way they immediately shot me up because I did not coincide with their unexperienced and faulty version of reality. In doing so they lose the opportunity to learn something and perpetuate their own mythology. How dysfunctional can you get. Older guys like Prof and myself have been through the ringer and made many mistakes in the endeavor to find the sound that we want. It is called experience, the best teacher of all. Next some idiot is going to post an extremely negative review of this post and he is exactly that individual that I am talking about.
You aren’t talking to some newbie who just walked in to your store who needs your education and salesman's wisdom. I’ve been in the hobby for much of my life, heard a gazillion systems, done some reviewing myself, listened to plenty of systems at reviewers places as they went through equipment, as well as audiophile pals, (I still have pals who review so I’m constantly listening to all the gear as we change things) and have gone through tons of experimenting and equipment of my own. So I have my own experience to go on, thank you very much.
From having owned and used many different amps, including SS, I know the general characteristics of my CJ tube amps vs most SS amps, and I know in which way the character of a speaker will be nudged when it goes from an SS amp to my own amps. I’ve learned to get quite a good read of speakers on unfamiliar amps, especially SS amps...and I often hear a speaker on a VARIETY of amps (sometimes tube and SS), and the essential character I can recognize is CONSISTENT. (Unless we are talking about very inaccurate amps or horribly matched amps that can’t drive a speaker).
I’ve lost count of the number of times I have identified why I don’t care for a speaker, while the dealer said "Oh, that’s because they are being powered by THIS amp, or DAC, or cable, let me switch to this one..." only to hear the same essential character remain.
I know you think differently, but you are barking up the wrong tree trying to tell me all the things I’ve heard a billion times from dealers and other audiophiles.
Again...it’s not that I don’t think amps can’t make a difference. I own CJ tube amps after all! Rather, especially with SS amps, they tend not to make a sonic difference of a magnitude that completely changes my opinion of a speaker. It’s certainly possible I have not heard the Persona’s at their best and would alter my opinion slightly of them.But my experience hearing speakers in many different systems shows my I’m VERY unlikely to like a speaker where I did not like it elsewhere.In fact that has not happened once, ever, whereas speakers I have liked in unfamiliar systems I continue to like in other situations, including if I bring them home.
So I have from you the same salesman’s pitch I’ve heard many times, vs my own long time experience
Not much further we can go on this.
And I’ve listed my gear numerous times on the forum. Don’t care to again in this thread. (I’ve told you before I use mostly Belden cabling.Though sometimes I have audioquest, other brands, even Nordost in my system, when friends give or lend me cast-offs and I happen to need a cable. Sorry...no major revelations from cabling).
Prof boy do we have some disagreements with you and there is a reason why you are coming up with what you are comming up with.
First: If you like tube amplifiers your audition on a speaker should be on a tube amplifier, demoing on a solid state amplifier is going to give you a totally diffeent feel.
Second: Your comment that solid state amplifers tend to sound similar is one of the most ludicrious statements ever.
When we were setting up our KEF Blades we had at the time four different solid state amplifiers that we could demo with them, a set of Parasound JC 1, a set of Electrcompaniet AW 400, a set of Chord SPM 650 Monoblocks, and a set of Chord SPM 1400.
So in order of price $10k Parasound, $12k Electro, $14k Chord, $32k Chord Reference amplifiers.
Just changing from one set of amplifiers to another and then to another you could hear the speakers open up dramatically. The Parasounds made the speakers sound slow, and closed in. The Electros were faster and cleaner and the speakers presentation livened up, the Chord monoblocks sounded even better with greater dynamics, cleaner overall the speakers sounded faster, and the Chord Reference all of a sudden the Blades sounded like live music with much greater dynamic range, far tighter bass, more detail a huge floating image.
So if you heard the first set of amplifiers your experience with the Blades would have been nice speaker but eh I don’t see the fuss, vs the Chord Reference amplifiers where your jaw would be on the floor.
If you listen to a Naim they sound distinctly different than most solid state, with a more rhythmic quality and a warm slightly recessed top end.
The Personas on Naim sound magical as the speakers are a bit forward and the Naim is punchy and a bit recessed.
Compare that sound with say an Ayre, or a Bryston, which are cleaner amplifers with. less coloration than the Naim but a far more neutral less involving sound do you think that combination will sound good or bad?
Amplifiers fall into brighter faster cleaner, and warmer, richer sounding presentations.
The new Krell XD amplifiers for example have a distinctly creamy presentation.
So Profi we differ cables make a very audible difference and must be matched with the electronics and sources so must the electronics.
A great set of speakers with the wrong electronics will not equil a great sounding system this usually leads to boy I don’t know what that reviewer liked in those speakers kind of comment.
Another point is there is no good sounding speaker that sounds good all the time, your good sounding speaker if that is the case will suffer appropriatly on the wrong electronics or the system has no resolution.
If a speaker has no resolution it will sound "good" which in reality is mediocre all the time. A good recording will sound good on a good system and a bad recording will sound poor on a good system.
If your system sounds good all the time on all recordings no matter what you don’t have an accurate system.
Prof for the record can you list your entire system including cables?
First audition - can't remember. Second audition, as I already said: Bryston amplification.
I'm not going to talk cabling with you as we don't agree on that stuff.They were thick cables...hope that helps ;-)
Agreed that system matching and set up can make a difference. But I have been auditioning speakers for many years and I have a good idea of how to get a picture of a speaker's character. Though I favor my tube amps, I always prefer to hear a speaker during audition powered by SS amps if possible as a more neutral starting point (never know how off-neutral a particular tube amp will be, where the variation among SS amps is much smaller).
Every speaker I've ever found to sound excellent sounded that way on different gear - yes, some variation among gear but the essential character of a speaker remains. If a speaker "needs" warmer gear, special attention to cables, warmer source and all that, then it needs fixing from external gear. That's already a warning sign IMO.
Anyway, I heard what I heard in two auditions (and I've actually heard the Performas in another location too), and no longer have interest in those speakers.
I'm sure you like them, so do some other people, and you have speakers to sell, but I'm not buyin' :)
I did a long audition of the Persona’s in which I was able to achieve a good set up of the speakers a year ago. I thought they sounded pretty good, but they wore me out.
This second audition, I again didn’t just allow for how the dealer set them up. I listened to them in various configurations, from the classic equilateral triangle, to moving them around to other positions (I prefer a wider spread so we did that, we got them off the walls, I got a good seating position much like I use at home with many different speakers). They just didn’t do anything for me. Just sounded sort of grayish in timbre, and with a top end that wore on me over time. (And I’ve heard many speakers with extended top ends that don’t wear on me like that).
If I’d only heard the Performas by themselves this recent time it’s possible I might not be so hard on them, but compared to the B&Ws, which were showing me more spatial and timbral information of all the instruments and voices in the mix...remember using exactly the same gear driving them ( the latest Bryston amps)...the Performas were a complete disappointment.
I know...I know...it was the "amplifier" or "cables"......
Koost, I remember reading about that amplifier and the review wasn't good, basically Stereophile said the amplifier was super lean, and clean, fast and articulate, the reviewer tried lots of things changing cables, adding a tube preamp to enrich the sound of this amplifier but his conclusions weren't exactly a rave, and if the amplifier was a clean and lean sounding amplifier than the sound with the Personas should have been awful.
The Persona's are a very low coloration loudspeaker that does tend to emphasis the top end, the speakers are very exciting to listen to, therefore you need to pair the speakers with a wamer combination of components to add a bit of tone color back in.
Hence we use Krell Class A designs, or T+A voiced to emulate tubes with the Personas and get fabulous results.
Here is the summation on the SAE amp:
Conclusions
The SAE 2HP-D is a super-powerful, ultra-low-distortion, low-noise, high-tech power amplifier. It produced tightly controlled bass; fast, clean, delicate, precise transients; dynamic punch to spare; and delivered bountiful musical thrills.
Others will find it on the lean, analytical, perhaps over-speedy side, with less than generously expressed harmonics.
Making the 2HP-D sing required carefully matched components,
Though the 2HP-D's midrange and overall sustain were a bit stingy, again, the right partnering gear (in my case, ARC's Reference 6 preamp and Audio Tekne's TEA-8695 phono preamp) will give some listeners everything they might want.
However, the SAE 2HP-D is clearly not an amp for those who prefer a soft, warm sound.
The other thing is it seems you are baseing your experience on this one demo, rather than a composite of hearing the speakers at different locations and on different gear.
We have heard a lot of Magico at shows and at dealers and most of the models sound the same, we heard the A3 at the New York audio show with AVM and Nordost and the sound was very different from past Magicos which tend to sound a bit smooth but not totally engaging, here the A3 were bright, and overly punchy a very different sound.
So do we now base our opinions on the A3 from just the show demo or do we keep on attempting to hear them under different circumstances before passing judgement on how they sound.
Also Kost it comes down to what you find musical? If you are a Vandersteen Harbeth kind of guy, who loves soft dome tweeters or a recessed treble it is unlikely you will find the Personas to your tastes.
It tooks us a while of tunning before we came up with magic for the Personas they are not a drop and plop loudspeaker they are very finiky beasts but when you get them right you get a sound which is in the league of $60k-120k loudspeakers for $25-35k a pair.
The 7F and especially 9H sounded super crystal clear and transparent to me. Both with moon gear. They were only out done in detail, imaging and clarity by the Magico M2 and Tidal Contriva G2. These speakers costs far more.
This does nothing to settle anything on the issue of course, but as a matter of pure anecdote:
I recently auditioned the Paradigm F3 with it's beryllium drivers against the B&W 803D3 (diamond tweeter) in the same room on the same equipment.
For me the high end frequencies of the B&W were much nicer, a more beautiful sense of harmonic richness, distinction and clarity to cymbals and other high frequency elements. The Paradigm sounded somewhat opaque in comparison.
I was surprised as I've never been a big fan of the B&W speakers.
Sound better, or sound more accurate? The latter is whatever is lightest and stiffest, i.e. diamonds. I have beryllium. It is fine. I listen to good music, not to equipment.
Mijy, Waiting for some pictures... And since you admitted you have “test equipment״ should be no problem showing test results (although according to you tests continued signals are worthless, so what exactly are you testing?)
Until then, you are added to the “ignore these wannabes” list.
That is odd kosst. I did not think I offered an explanation of break up. I only mention some factors that might or might not contribute to it. You obviously like Science cop do not understand it either or how to or how not to apply crossovers or how to chose drivers to accomplish a specific goal based on their static specs. I suggest you and science cop get yourselves a bunch of drivers, capacitors, chokes, test equipment and soldering irons so you can start having fun playing around. If you are stuck for money I can loan you mine:)
@mijostyn Like I said, you are a geniuses, rewriting the book on loudspeaker design. Please share the bliss with us and show us your speakers, and of course measurements of your “child's play” results. I am sure you know how a
phase cohere step response looks like, right?
Sciencecop, I hate to say this but you have no idea what you are talking about and you are having trouble applying the manufacturer's data to real life performance. Those frequency response graphs you are referring to are take under static conditions. Music is not. It is dynamic. Whether or not a cone "breaks up" depends not only on the frequency but on the volume and duration of the signal. I know from experience that I can apply certain drivers that way in that format with insanely good results for a point source speaker.
@mijostyn Do you even understand what a 6db XO is? How about breakup modes? The geniuses you are, you surly understand the difference between a 6db electrical XO (simple - but unless the frq. response of the driver is flat, which is not in this case, not phase coherent) and 6db acoustical slop (very complicated - phase cohere). Or did you not get to this part in your loudspeakers 101? There is nothing simple about building loudspeakers. That is why simple minded people should stay out of it. The speaker you are proposing will not be phase coherent, will sound horrible due to the fact you didn’t suppressed the breakups, and will not play loud at all (yes, you will blow up the tweeter in no time).
Stereophile has an interesting paragraph on the Magico Be-Diamond tweeter:
"A beryllium dome is both light enough and stiff enough to behave pistonically, and was used in the Magico Q5, which Michael Fremer reviewed in November 2012. Applying a layer of diamond to the metal, Tammam explained, results in a dome with a more homogeneous surface, which both reduces intermodulation distortion and results in a more benign harmonic-distortion signature that is less like that of a metal dome. I asked why they hadn't gone all the way and used an all-diamond diaphragm. It turned out that, yes, diamond would produce a very stiff diaphragm, but the required suspension would raise the tweeter's low-frequency resonance from the desired 500Hz or so to about 1.3kHz. This, in turn, would mean that the tweeter would have to be crossed over to the midrange drive-unit at too high a frequency. Beryllium's lower mass ensures that the resonance frequency is close to 500Hz, but the diamond layer raises the dome's stiffness to extend the high frequencies."
ScienceCop, how many loudspeakers have you built? 6dB is a huge difference in power and volume. The anomalies you mention will have less effect on the sound than the phase shift from a higher order crossover. Burn that tweeter out? Your ears will burn out long before that tweeter will get even just a degree warmer. I suggest you go pick up a copy of loudspeaker design for dummies.
smodtactical The 3.7 is the best value in the Maggie line up. It's tweeter is better than any dome made of any material. Even an ESL can not match it for sheer performance above 10K. It has an amazingly smooth dispersion pattern and because it is a line source throughout its range it projects way better than any dome. In this regard its only equal is an ESL. ESLs have a problem with dispersion. SoundLabs has the best solution to the problem but the result is a huge loudspeaker 40 inches wide.
how do you define a "simple crossover"? I ask this as I have learned the term "simple" means different things to different people.
For instance, I have spoken extensively about how to optimize sound utilizing Eton drivers with the folks at Eton and they said their speakers sound best with "simple crossovers".
Digging deeper, what they mean by simple is 2nd order to 3rd order. But 4th order bricks of inductors and capacitors are unnecessary to get the most out of their drivers. They mean simple by professional standards.
Secondarily, what is "ceramic hell"? As someone who uses a ceramic tweeter in their speaker implementations (admittedly not pure ceramic, but a ceramic magnesium sandwich), I have no idea what you are talking about. I find the ceramic tweeter to be smooth, detailed and revealing without a smidge of harshness, edginess, etc... that would lead one to describe the speakers as hellish.
They do all that magical up/down, left/right, fore/back, beyond the boundaries imaging you claim only ESL’s can do. I’d say they do it better than any ESL
No they don’t, I’m very good friends with the owner of Audio Marketing (importer) that imports the Focals, and believe me, I’ve heard them many times with Nigel the owner when he asks me to listen to the new models, they can’t come close to what big ESL’s can do, not even the Grande Utopia could. https://6moons.com/industryfeatures/superfi/1.jpg Nigel's on the right.
And with that synthesizer music, all you need is a good PA for that stuff. you can’t tell what’s real anyway, because nothing is. FYI there’s no hi-jacking going on here, the OP bought up ESL’s in his very first post.!!!! get a grip.
Now for those of you that want the ultimate point source speaker that will go loud enough to bust your eardrums you get four Accuton C168-6-490 midrange drivers and two C30-6-024 tweeters for a total price of $5000.00. Make a simple 6 dB/Oct crossover at 3000 Hz..
No kidding… Did you look at the frq response? These mids have a 10db(!!) breakup at 7Khz (!!!) starting to clime at 3Khz (!!!!). With 6db slop, let’s say starting at 3K (actually more like 4KHz, if you using 6db XO and don’t want to burn your tweeter on the first note), you will be listening to ceramic hell the entire time! You can’t use "simple" XO with these, or basically any worthy, drivers. The amount of nonsense people post here is hilarious, but of course anyone can build a loudspeaker...
It is all about the design and specs of the tweeter, not the material. In the speaker design I mention above the tweeter is ceramic not diamond because the Accuton diamond tweeter does not fit into the design well. It is less efficient and will not match up well with Accutons spectacular midrange drivers. The diamond tweeters will go up higher but the ceramic ones already go way beyond the limits of human hearing so it means zip. There is no commercially available dynamic loudspeaker that will keep up with the design I mention for anywhere near the money and you can cut the price dramatically by using other less expensive drivers with very close to the same results.
@tomcy6 - thank you for the civil response. Something that seems to be lacking these days.
If I get a chance to do some relaxed listening I will and I am looking forward to a day when I can spend some time with the M series from Magico.
What is fascinating and i learned this through some recent testing. I held everything constant except the cabinet material. In a cabinet that was less rigid, the same driver, tweeter crossover combo was dead and lacked detail.
The solution to this is to tweak the resistor and one of the capacitors in the crossover. This increases the output slightly offsetting the lack of damping and the net effect sounds very good but makes the tweeter bright. If the cabinet is very poorly damped you have to adjust a lot.
My hunch is is that the worst offenders (products will remain unnamed) have poorly damped cabinets and need to make bigger adjustment to their crossover which is why I hate them so much.
And why something like the Magico S line sounds so good because the cabinets are heavily damped and the crossover values are closer to optimal.
My hunch is, the Magico M line is going to be as close as a beryllium tweeter will get to absolute perfection. I am hoping someone at Capital Audiofest has them so I can hear them.
for a stand-mount mine are very good and for my taste, are 99% perfect. I am looking at two materials that will be significantly stiffer and potentially offer better damping compared to the Carbon Fiber sandwich panels I am using and I am looking at three tweeters that will crossover at a more optimal point.
One will I’ll be a ribbon, one will be diamond and one will be beryllium. That last 1% to perfection will come at a price though as I expect these standmount speakers to retail at $15k to $20K when done.
I agree that silk domes can be awful as well with crappy implementations. I like a slightly forward sound but have been hearing a lot of speakers that take it way too far lately.
verdant audio, I appreciate people like you providing us with the knowledge gained through your study and experience. It is certainly more welcome than the incorrect info and bickering often found on forums.
Detailed and forward sound seems to be one current trend in high-end speakers. Apparently you are working on a different path and that’s good. I don’t like bright, forward speakers myself.
Another big problem for me on forums is that people believe that not only should everyone like what they own, but that their gear is the best available and you are an idiot if you don’t agree.
I’m not accusing you of that. You have extensively listened to a lot of Be tweeters and don’t like them. That’s good to know, but my aging ears are probably not as sensitive to their problems as yours.
Maybe you could give them a try in relaxed listening mode rather than in critical listening mode sometime and let us know the result. I know that conducting comparisons is one way for me to be sure I won’t like a speaker, but that's just me.
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