Bass leaves after amp warms up?

Let us know results with the new amp and congratulations...
you reached 400 responses.

I've been having a similar problem, not only do I lose bass but the overall clarity drops. Sometimes my system sounds awesome other times not so much.
I believe I just found the problem, I wasn't sure if it was the amp or pre-amp so I ran the I/c directly from my Oppo to my amp. Flat sound no bass so it's the amp not pre. I wanted more volume so I reached around back & changed the input sensitivity switch, bass returned although the highs were a bit harsh. I moved the switch back & forth a few times & put it back where it was & it sounds great. Hopefully that's it & it will stay that way.
It's a McIntosh MC7270

What? Are you on the right thread?

The thread that refuses to die! Will it survive to 1,000 responses? What is the record?

"The thread that refuses to die! Will it survive to 1,000 responses? What is the record?"

We're in the middle of a "cliff-hanger", hoping to find out what happens in the end. Like "who shot JR?".

I think the record is 10,582 posts on the MM vs MC cartridge thread and it's still climbing.

Is there any correlation for time of day? Maybe there is a difference in the power quality feed into your premise based on something else happening around your local grid? A long shot I know.

Since you have controlled for so many elements, the most likely culprit to suspect is YOU. I would set up a controlled blind test with an audiophile friend so you would listen to the system for 10-minutes on at least 4 separate occasions without knowing if the system was just turned on or if it had been on playing music for an hour or more. If this proves the effect is not imagined then I would sell all my equipment and move.

Certainly any help is appreciated but recordings of the sound differences were sent out and I noticed a difference. I still believe it is somehow related to heat. Either in the amp or the speakers or both. The "bad" sound reminds of an amp that is underpowered or does not have tight control of the bass. My hunch is it is a combination of issues since it never could be replicated consistently.

It is my understanding the OP has moved on.

I'm wondering if OP got his Brystons to run with PSBs or stuck with just headphones as he mentioned in last post a couple weeks back.

I'm thinking if the Grado headphone sound floats OPs boat, BRyston + PSB is a reasonable pairing to try. OR maybe he's just more of a headphones guy. That's a lot cheaper and easier to get right most of the time!!! :^)

I dunno, Mapman...going from 40 inch, 4 driver towers is very different than headphones.

OP is still here
I placed order for Bryston Seperates but the 2.5 amp is not available for 3 months so I cancelled..
I am going to audition Yamaha a S-2000 integreated amp from Amazon with return privilige..
Next choice will be Musical Fidelity pre/prx
After that I will get rid of Synchrony one speakers for Legacy or Joseph audio.
I currently have no amp but listening with headphones to shm-sacd recordings on Sony XA5400es

That integrated looks like a nice package.

If there is an integrated at any reasonable cost that can drive a hard load as well as a good separate power amp, its probably a Class D integrated like that, though I have not heard that one specifically. That's because of the smaller power supply needed for CLass D and less potential for EM field associated to affect other crcuits. RFI can be a problem with CLass D amps, but newer designs seem to have a pretty good handle on that and that should help application in an integrated I would think.

We'll see. Anxious to hear how it turns out. Remember that some break in time for a new amp might be needed before it sounds its best.

Which Integrated are you referring to Yamaha or Musical fidelity pre/prx?
I don't know what you mean by Class D
Does that stand for Digital?
That was the Audio Reseach I was lookning at but decided against it
Yamaha is not Class D

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-A-S2000BL-Natural-Stereo-Amplifier/dp/B001L19FBC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370555103&sr=8-1&keywords=yamaha+2000+integrated

Hmm, well I thought i read that Yamaha model to be Class D, but maybe not.

Maybe this amp will do better than the last one. I tend to like most Yamaha amps I have heard, but have not heard that one. I hope it works out.

Fishing ... Class D as compared to class A, AB amps....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier

testing testing

Can anyone recommend Yamaha paired w/PSB Synchrony one's or is Musical Fidelity pre/prx much better choice?

Don't know, but again the issue of of output power comes up. You need an amp that doubles down it's power from an 8 ohm load to 4 ohms. The Yamaha does not. (Remember the impedance curve of the Synch One drops below 4 ohms).
That's the solution to drive those speakers IMO.

Look for this topic in the earlier comments. Go looking for Almarg's postings....and Dan Wright's info.

The MF pre/prx are 250watts in 8ohms
Would expect that's enough watts to drive synchrony one.
Others have good results with just 120w

Deja vu

Fishing,

You should really review the thread and take tne doubles down to 4 ohm advise seriously. You might find a good match otherwise but that is the spec that will help identify the amp you need. I thought you understood this and were going down that path but now it sounds like you are back to where you started.

Good luck. Not much else to say at this point except live an d learn.

Just ordered Acoustic Arts Power 1 mk.3 intgrated amp w/phono..200 watts

Well done Fishing716. I own the Power1 mk2 and absolutely love it's clarity. I have no complaints other than the cramped quarters in the back. I would love to hear your thoughts once you get it. By the way, I had to burn in my unit for around 50 hours before I got good bass.

Btw, my previous integrated was the MF M6i! I didn't have the bass issues you mentioned. In fact, I thought the M6i was very good. I think it sounds a bit more organic than the Accustic Arts, doing a better job with stringed instruments.

Tbooe,

I see you use smaller monitor speakers whereas OP was having his bass issues with larger full range speakers that are probably more sensitive to amp matching due to more low end extension.

I'll be curious to hear the outcome of the new amp, which is rated at 135 watts into 8 ohms and 200 watts into 4 ohms.

While I hope that the new amp fixes the issue, I'm skeptical. I recently read in another thread a post by I think Audiokinesis that describes situations in speakers where the voice coil gets too hot and starts to limit the bass response of a speaker. When reading that, I instantly thought of this thread. If that's the case, then it's the speakers, not the amps that are causing the issue.

Fishing, let us know how things progress.

Yes, I am curious to hear as well.

I'm hoping it works out but clearly Fishing is basing his buying decisions on something other than the recommendations that have been offered up here. More power to him! I just hope it works out! Nothing on paper to indicate a major difference in bass performance should be expected, but paper never tells the whole story....

Inching toward 500 responses. How many new amps have been promised?

The AA Power 1 mk.3 integrated is 200 watts into 8ohms
I paid $5000 new w/phono from distriubuter for a show demo open box.
I have 15 day test drive w/return option & no restock.
Although shipping both ways using fedex air w/insurance would be around $400
I chose this amp over Musical Fidelity pre/prx also Modwright KWI 200 & yamaha s2000
The amp arrives Wednesday-
I will post first impressions soon after

Have read nothing but good things about that amp.

Fishing, definitely appears to be a very high quality integrated and I do hope this new amp works well for you, however someone has misinformed you about the power. The ratings I quoted was from the company's website.

http://www.accusticarts.com/pdf/produktblatt/power-I-mk3.pdf

Agree with Mapman, what's on paper never tells the whole story.

I'm with you Seikosha. I very seriously doubt that Fish's audio gremlins have anything to do with the amp.

High damping factor for perfect speaker control
What does this mean?

listed under features of amp I'm about to audition

Damping factor is speaker input impedance/amp output impedance. High damping factor means lower amp output impedance. Amps with high damping factor are better able to control driver movement, when needed. Some speakers will benefit more than others. In general this should help produce a clean, detailed articulate bass as opposed to one that is less controlled, looser sounding, or possibly muddy. This will likely be of benefit with more full range speakers like the PSBs that tend towards lower impedance in the bass frequencies. Amp damping factor can be a significant factor in how one amp might sound compared to another.

"When I let the Accustic Arts have a go at the 87dB/4-ohm Walsh 4.5Mk II -- a speaker more in line with the amp's 190-watt delivery into such a load -- it was late in the Power 1's stay yet it gave me more of the same. While I doubt that the Power 1 will be confused with any of the mega-watt bruisers, bass through the Ohms came across as properly linear, nicely detailed and, again, very much in control. No matter what the speaker, the Power 1's bass remained highly damped and well handled. My Ohms are still breaking in and though not quite the most transparent speaker I have in the house, the Accustic Arts amplifier held up its end of the midrange bargain with smoothly flowing detail and true instrumental timbres."

My guess is the bass performance to expect with the PSBs should be somewhat along these lines. John Potis, the guy who reviewed that amp on Six Moons, was one of the most reliable equipment reviewers out there IMHO.

Set up AA Power 1 mk3 this evening with 2 hrs listening.
First impressions suggest it's a world class amp built to high standards/expectations.
It's difficult to know how the amp will sound after more hrs.but hope deeper bass will be apparent.
Fine acoustial tambers,clean articulate with liquid midrange.Classical sounds best so far and the phono stage is quite good.Also the headphone amp sounds excellent.Tomorrow will give further insight into the amps potential.
Looking foward to hear the amp open up more

Looks like a very nice integrated. I hope it works out.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the AA Fishing716. I have the MK2 version and love it! My AA had terrible bass when I first got it. It was so bad that I even checked to make sure I didnt reverse the polarity of my speaker cables. After about 50 hours the bass came alive. Now, I think this integrated sounds so great with my SF Auditors. Vocals are tremendous.

Thanks for your response Tboooe

The bass sounds weak & assumed I'm having same problems as before.Hope I hear improvement before 15 day trial period ends.

Fishing, break-in does not affect bass in amplifiers so much. It does in speakers though.

If you have not heard the bass come around in a week we can safely assume (as we did before) that it is not the amplifier at fault.

I now have Accustic Arts on the case!

it's Deju vu all over again

"If you have not heard the bass come around in a week we can safely assume (as we did before) that it is not the amplifier at fault."

I have not read anything that indicates this amplifier will be the nth degree in terms of extended and dynamic bass like a good doubling down power amp would be with the PSBs (still those, right?), but it should be quite good otherwise as best I can tell. Amps that an better this one in every way should be much fewer and far between though I would say.

I apologize if this has been asked already but how loud do you listen? Some speakers Qts (how tight or loose the bass is) can change when the voice coils get hot from playing loud, especially with music that has a lot of deep bass.

I will be most surprised if it turns out those PSBs cannot play loud without voice coils overheating. I would expect most integrated amps to start to clip well beforehand. But ya never know....

Think I discoved the reason for my bass troubles:

A while ago I confirmed with Audioqust how to connect my bi wire speakers..Was certain Alaister said Red treble,black bass/Red treble & black bass...It turns out from top down the correct way is Red Treble/black treble & Red bass/black bass..
The bass is sounding much better now..
It's hard to believe this went undected for so long.
I feel silly of course..
I'll be certain this was the source of my problem in a day or two.

Just curious. What is your point of reference in comparison to your assessment? I don't remember if it's been mentioned. If it has, why don't you go and get one of those?