Back to the DAC

@yyzsantabarbara 👍😁The MPD-6 is excellent. I've heard the MPD-8 described as slightly warmer, but I have not heard them side by side. Have fun with the Yggi vs LIM. 

Cool. Glad to be of help. Btw preamp is built into most DACs nowadays.  
MSB, Mola, Bricasti, Chord (above qutest), Playback Designs, PS Audio, T+A, DCS, Weiss. Some do it better than others. Berkeley doesn’t have volume control and they don’t have USB but they have MQA how awesome is that…LOL. Denafrips and Holo don’t have volume control if you want a chinese r2r dac. But I think you already have one. 

@yyzsantabarbara I recall you say this:

"Do some research on the much cheaper Schitt Yggi+ Less is More. It was designed by a guy named Mike Moffet. I was telling a friend about the DAC 2 days ago. He is in the HiFi business, and he told me I was the 4th person that said great things about the LIM to him.

He also told me that he had a long conversation with Mike Moffet years ago when he did a project with Schitt and he thought MM came across as a digital genius.

I had the Gustard X26 Pro. It was bettered by the Musetec 005. It was bettered by the Lumin X1. It was bettered by the Schitt Yggi+ LIM. In fairness, the X1 is also an incredible streamer"

My very first DAC was a Schitt Gungnir that I paid $849 for in 2013. It didn't sound as good as my $500 Marantz CD player, so I never looked back at Schiit, thinking their name kinda says it all. Sounds like they have come a long way since then!

I never said that last part on the Gungnir.

My friend’s opinion on audio is like gold to me. The dude is a savant when it comes to audio. He came over to my place and heard the LIM with my big system, the Yamaha NS5000. It was not great with that slightly warmer system. I ended up using the Benchmark DAC3B for the rest of the listening and we both liked it more than the LIM combination. However, we both feel the DAC3B is just an OK DAC and too hot on top. He has the DAC3B in his lab.

Moving the LIM to my brighter office system which has the LRS+ and the Sanders Magtech made for an excellent combination. I listen to this system every day for hours. I know I can get more detail but I am loving the sounds as is.

The Yggi+ DAC is better than the DAC3B in many ways. That is why I have the more detailed OG on order for the Yamaha NS5000.

The LIM reminds me of the Sony SCD-1 SACD player I owned for 20-years. It was modded and an exceptional player. It was not the most detailed (compared to modern DACs), but the enjoyment factor was very high with it. The LIM is similar that way.

The main guy at Playback Designs was involved in the creation of the Sony SCD-1 so that is a big reason I am interested in the MPD-8 DAC sometime in the future.

BTW - the reason I got the OG over the MIB that I was initially planning to get was that a guy at Schitt, who is a musician, spoke to me at length why he though the OG was the best DAC Schitt ever made, he hated the LIM. So, take that as another data point.

Easy thing with Schitt is you can do a home demo. Just run your streamer for 24 x 15 and hear it for yourself. It will cost a few bucks to restock.

I never said that last part on the Gungnir.

@yyzsantabarbara LOL! You read outside the quotation marks, that was me who spoke of the Gungnir as being my first DAC!

Thanks for the rest of the info though.

I've owned both the Yggy LIM and M3 and liked both. ~$3500 for the M3 with streamer and remote is a great price!   If you don't need the integrated streamer and volume control the LIM was a nice sounding DAC to me for ~$2K but I thought it lacked a little detail.   It remined me a lot of the more expensive Mojo Audio R2R DAC I replaced the M3 with.  In the $2-2.5K range I'm currently running a Weiss 205 with Keces LPS and think it has at least the resolution of the M3 and allows one to hear into the recording more than the LIM.   It is a little on the clean/lean side of things, but not too bad; it still has nice tone.   I replaced a Meitner MA3 with it as the differences didn't out weight the price differences in my view.

I don't regret buying something as expensive as the MA3 as it's the best DAC I've owned, but to be honest the differences don't always out way the price differences if you choose wisely and depending on the rest of your system; YMMV.

@ddafoe Good to know, thank you and yes, that Meitner MA3 better be good at that price!

@navyachts 

Tubeous nervosa is normal.  Like a cold plunge it seems scary but once you do it you know the Why and it makes sense.  

Like you I have had a W4S 2.2 SE, it was better than a Yggdrasil but not better than a Terminator or Terminator Plus with or without a DDC and I2S.

I bought a used Lampizator Goldengate and never looked back at the Denafrips.  I recently upgraded it to GG3 status with the Engine 11, JL USB and new OLED volume and its now in another  world.

There is a used Lampizator Baltic 3/4 on Hifishark with a few years of warranty left, it has Engine 11 and JL USB.

@anzaanimalclinic is that the one in Mexico?

USA

It is my old work email, I am re

tired.

@navyachts If you are not afraid of European products, then I highly recommend to also consider Métronome Le Dac. The people of Métronome in France make great streamers and dacs.

@tvad I have found a 2021 Bricasti M3 with a remote than needs the MDx upgrade so I'd be in for $3750. I also found a 2109 M1 that was factory refurbished to a SE at that time for around $5000. It could be brought up to M1 Series II for $3750 bringing it in at $8750. With your experience (at retail pricing) is the M1 Series II sound $6000 better than the M3?

There's also a member touting a Lampizator Baltic on US Audiomart, which you liked for around $5K but like you, I'm not much into tubes right now.

I decided to be the first to jump in with the LAiV (the guinea pig!)

I will report my impressions (not measurements, my subjective impressions) in comparing the LAiV to my: Theta GenV Pro, Topping D90SE and the built in Sony ES, Oppo and Lexicon.

Currently the D90 takes the daily use for DSD and streaming.  The Theta does the CD's using a modified Sony ES as transport.

Looks good inside and out, remote looks nice and seems to be fully featured, has all the inputs and outputs i need also.

Now if I could only figure out how to easily switch i2s out from the transport to either DAC...? (D90 and LAiV).

@navyachts fyi M3 all have mdx boards. Updating firmware has no impact on sound. 

@ervikingo If I remember correctly, the LAiV has 8 preprogramed I2s settings that you can toggle through. Hope it works out for you and eager to hear how you feel about it.

There's more video reviews coming online and one reviewer who made his own home built Lampizator DAC model (pimped out the way he likes it) says it compares very favorably to it and on another, the owner of Quailo Audio said if he had to choose between his Holo May DAC and the LAiV, he'd opt for the LAiV.

The Hype Train is leaving the station. Let's hope it arrives at its destination. 👍

All the best,
Nonoise

home built Lampizator?

thought they were all home built…or was this one just built in a different home…

@audphile1 - Thanks, the fellow selling the 2021 M3 doesn't have the MDx upgrade. I don't know if it has an original MDx or not, I'm not sure what it all means. I was going to call Bricasti to find out all the jive sometime soon. The seller says it's $1250 to upgrade the MDx. I have been thinking now more on the M1 because it has a much larger upgrade path than the M3. Lot's to learn!  

Well yes the M1SE with MDx board would be the way to go with a look on a M1S2 upgrade in a future. It’s a better option if the price is right. 
as to M3, the latest MDx updates include components for a new color display and the corresponding firmware update. Call Joe at Bricasti he’s going to explain it to you. 

@nonoise Yes, the hype train is in full force.  I read the 6 Moons comments and figured I'd give it a shot. 

I am happy with my Topping but feel its a bit electronic/choppy on some material.  For example the vocals on Pros and Cons of Hitchiking sound a bit crisp and chopped off.  I tried the CD and Streamed versions and the effect is similar.  On my Theta (fed from CD transport) it flows more.  Hope that the R2R scheme softens the steps and offers additional musicality that I can perceive.

News to follow

thought they were all home built…or was this one just built in a different home…

By the looks of the case, it appears to be all his doing based on what he learned. Here's the video:

All the best,
Nonoise

FYI, when I ordered they only had 7 left in stock (in black).

Congrats @ervikingo ! Let us know if it stands up to the hype. I feel confident you can improve upon topping though with several DACs. Just look at the list of DACs Amir didn’t like and throw a dart. 

@audphile1 that is funny right there 🤣

Just look at the list of DACs Amir didn’t like and throw a dart. 

+1 @audphile1 Very funny because there’s a lotta truth in it.

@audphile1 +2 lol

I am chatting on my phone, as I type, with one of the sellers of an M1 on AG. My question, "how old is the unit and has it had any upgrades" his response " Not sure exactly, need to find out" OK "How about a remote? No response. Had a similar email experience with the other M1 seller on AG yesterday. Also asked for a serial number so I could call Joe at Bricasti about it...nuthin’ what gives?

How about this one: https://teac.jp/int/product/ud-701n/top

I aim to please. Lol

@navyachts few things to know…

1. All M3 DACs have MDx boards. Latest board includes processors for different color displays. Previous MDx versions had several firmware updates and Joe will tell you no sonic difference. But call and confirm 

2. Old M1 - no MDx board unless it was sent for that specific upgrade. Remote is old style with receiver that connects via umbilical cord. You really don’t care if it has it or not as you will upgrade it to M1S2 anyway. My goal would be to get one as cheap as possible

3. M1SE check for MDx board pretty sure most recent ones will be fine. Might have umbilical remote as well. Not sure

4. M1S2 will all have MDx. And I believe may all have new multi color display (I turn displays off on all my components) and have the latest remote, same as M3 without umbilical. 
 

If I misstated something anyone please feel free to jump in. 

@tvad @audphile1 🙏

TEAC I’m not familiar with. 
 

@nonoise did you see Steve Huff’s review of the Laiv? Impressive comparisons.

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2F-oe_gh6JX5Q%3Ffeature%3Dshared&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cb4403f3a32e7478fe52608dc697fcf1f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638501244863176121%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9FxKbMoRp%2FYMMyjy0jCw0b%2BOMJvMWa8wDe%2BJ64XiRvI%3D&reserved=0

I second the vote for the Merason Dac1. It’s a stand-alone Dac and offers a balanced, detailed yet very musical presentation. It’s a Dac to consider based on your stated parameters. 

@navyachts , Yes...about 2 hours ago and he was really taken by it saying if your budget is below $10K, then this will punch your audio ticket (pardon my paraphrasing). 😄  He's keeping his review sample.

I've got a funny feeling they're gonna run out of these soon if not already.

All the best,
Nonoise

@bluethinker thx!

I just checked LAiV's website and both silver and black are down to preorder status for the next batch.  Time for the audio elves to get busy. 

All the best,
Nonoise

Steve’s a good dude. Knows what he’s taking about. However the comparisons in this review between the DACs within completely different system context is not a valid one. There’s nothing left of his system when he had the DAVE. You can’t possibly compare LAiV and Chord DAVE using two different systems one of which is in his auditory memory. I mean no disrespect to Steve but I call BS here. I have no reason to doubt what he heard from LAiV as a standalone DAC though but let’s not run our imagination wild here comparing it to DAVE. 

I got my Schiit Yggi+ OG today and burning it in my office system. First with the Leafs-Bruins hockey game and now music.

It likely needs a bit of time before it shines. However, it does sound rather good so far. 

I found this review today, and it has some good history on Mike Moffet.

Schiit Audio Yggdrasil DAC - The Absolute Sound  (Robert Harley)

Now this quote is getting interesting. I did not realize this DAC could be great. 

I can’t tell you how Moffatt did it, but I can describe how the Yggy sounds, and why its one of the three best DACs I’ve heard regardless of price. (The other two are the $19,500 Berkeley Alpha Reference and the $35,000 dCS Vivaldi. I suspect that the MSB Select is outstanding, after hearing it many times at shows, but I haven’t evaluated it in my own system.)

Move over LAiV, Schiits in town!!!

@navyachts I believe we discussed this before, but while the T+A DAC 200 has preamp functionality, it is easily bypassed, and you can use it in a line out mode. I know you feel like you may be paying for more features that you are not using, but the fact of the matter is that the DAC 200 punches well over it's price point against DACs in its price range that the preamp functions are just gravy. 

One benefit of its preamp is that the analog output stage is exceptional compared to other DACs in its price tier. This is one of the reasons the DAC 200 stands out. If T+A didn't design it to be capable of having a robust preamp section, it likely wouldn't sound as good as a standalone DAC, either.

One set of features that isn't discussed very often with this DAC are its DAC filters, which include two FIR filters, two proprietary Bezier / bit perfect filters, and two NOS filters. Being able to swap between these filters almost feels like having six different DACs.

I am an authorized T+A dealer, but owned T+A before becoming a dealer. Take it how you want.

@blisshifi - Can you elaborate on the NOS filters? How would you describe what T+A is going for in terms of sound? 

@bluethinker Here's what it states in the manual:

NOS 1 - With this setting the upsampling of the DAC 200 is deactivated and the analog output filter (lowpass) is automatically set to 60 kHz for sampling rates of 44.1 and 48 kHz. For higher sampling rates, the setting you selected under the Lowpass menu item is used.

NOS 2 - If you select this setting, upsampling of the DAC 200 is deactivated. The analogue output filter always has the value selected under the menu item Lowpass.

BEZ 1 is a Bezier interpolator combined with a IIR filter. This process produces a result very similar to an analogue system.

BEZ 2 is a pure Bezier interpolator – offering perfect “timing” and dynamics.

FIR 1 is a classic FIR filter with an extremely linear frequency response.

FIR 2 is a FIR filter with improved peak handling.

---

I believe T+A pretty much include the FIR filters to show how much better the NOS, and particularly, their proprietary BEZ filters sound. In my experience, the three warmest are NOS1, NOS2 and BEZ1. The most detailed, neutral, and balanced with the most holographic soundstage is BEZ2 for me.

Most of my clients who have purchased a DAC 200 prefer the BEZ 2 filter, but a few prefer BEZ1 and some love the NOS filters.

At a very basic principle, T+A strives for emotional response... goosebumps, if you will. Their words, not mine. I've found their gear to be a really great blend of the best of both worlds of being slightly harmonically rich and natural and also having incredible, non-fatiguing resolution and clarity.

Hope this helps!

@yyzsantabarbara You mention the Schitt Yggi, are you referring to the Yggdrasil?It's a bit confusing with the LIM, MIL and OG. Decent review here:

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=passion+for+sound+yggdrasil+reveiw&mid=6CB733912F828BB341EC6CB733912F828BB341EC&FORM=VIRE. The reviewer did prefer the Hugo TT2 (no MScaler) over the Yggi, but at a much lower cost, thought the Yggi was a great value.

I am getting a bit bummed out dealing with a few sellers of used Bricastis at the moment, so I may give the Yggi a shot, particularly as Schiit has the 15-day trial period. Just to confirm, it is the OG you recommend? I may also look out for a decent (used) TT2

@ddafoe @bluethinker The Meitner is a bit pricey used and may be a tough sell if it’s not to my liking and there are no used Merason DAC1 (that I can find) currently for sale. Both look like interesting DACs from Europe, as well as Rockna. It sure would be nice if you could do an in-home demo with all of these!

@navyachts it’s all the same schiit. In my opinion, although these are decent DACs, they’re not on the level of your system. 

Chord TT2 would be good. you can add Mscaler later. TT2 is good value on used market and is relatively easy to resell. Check sold prices on hifishark. 

@blisshifi yes, we have chatted before and yes, I'm aware that the T&A DAC 200 is very highly rated. In turn, I just wanted to say I do not have any DSD content nor do I up sample. Regardless, how's pricing on the T&A these days?

@audphile1 +1 no Schiit! I like the way you cut to the chase! Yes, you have suggested the TT2 to me in the past. Maybe this is the way to go? Hopefully the re-sellers have a bit more on the ball than the Bricasti group I have been dealing with (or not dealing with in my case).

I see you have a CODA #8 and a CODA preamp. Well, I can help there since I owned the latest CODA #8 and the CODA 07x. I no longer have those 2 since I upgraded to the CODA #16 and the Holo Serene preamp. This is a lot better than the #8 and the 07x. These 2 units are on my Yamaha NS5000 speaker and now the Schitt OG joins them. I initially tried the LIM in this system, and it was too warm. I would think you would feel the same but some people like it warm. The OG is breaking in but it has more sparkle on the top that I was wanting.

On my upstairs system I have the Benchmark HPA4 preamp, Sanders Magtech amp, and the Magnepan LRS+. I like the Magtech more than the CODA #8. I heard both the fresh out of the box Schitt OG and the fully broken in LIM on this system and they both sounded good. The OG had more details while the LIM had a warmer tone.

The DAC that Robert Harley of TAS was raving about was the OG that I got yesterday. The review is for the older version of the Yggi OG. It was upgraded to plus status after that review. It has potential, since I did some late-night listening yesterday with my RAAL CA-1a phone and the VM-1a tube amp and it was the best I have heard from it. Though the gain on the OG and the VM-1a is not a perfect match and not something I will use together.

If you were to get a NEW Yggi+ DAC from Schitt you would be limited to the LIM and MIB. The MIB is more similar to the OG that I got. I got the last OG they sold.

Since the OG sounded good with the LRS+ I am thinking I might upgrade the LIM to the MIB in a few months after I do some extensive listening.

BTW - I considered Briscati and Chord in the past. The Chord was intriguing because of the designer seemed innovative, similar in experience as Playback Designs, Rockna, and Schitt. There are a lot of companies taking a chip and shaping the sound. Like sticking drivers on a box. I like a bit of innovation for my gear.