Back to the DAC

I haven’t heard it and I’m sure it’s nice, but the LAiV at first glance looks to me like an 8 pound, half-sized, $1,700 Chinese R2R mini DAC.

In a nice case and box. With a $2,700 price tag.

Obviously, size doesn’t matter (says the Tambaqui to the Playback Designs and others). And of course almost everything has gotten smaller and cost 35-40% more over the last year or three.

So maybe smaller size for higher cost is the new normal. 

@navyachts it is very neat and so far sounds very well. Wish i had a Lampi on hand to compare

@audphile1 that is the plan! really busy week for me so I have not been able to put it through its paces.

Of all things that i realize is that it is not fatiguing. I guess I’m saying that the Topping is fatiguing; at least on Filter 7 where I use it. Odd since the changes on filter 7 occur beyond my hearing range.

@ervikingo thanks for your thoughts on LAiV! Keep running it around 200hrs is usually what DACs require for break in. Could still improve! 
I was thinking of giving it a try…

@ervikingo Thanks for sharing, sounds like a steal! It will be interesting to see how others like this DAC as more people get a hold of it. The reviews have been stunning so far.

Well, my LAiV was delivered last night.  Initial impressions:

- beautiful packaging and attention to details

- unit looks and feels great.  Remote is on another level

- played P Gabriel on DSD (i2s) set on NOS mode and compared a/b to the topping (on filter 7).  Less sibilance, soundstage feels wider with better separation.  Bass and mids are deep; no sibilance

- CD's and Stream (Pros and Cons/R Waters, Lord Zuthula - Dean Peer, Eye in the Sky - Alan Parsons, Regret #9 - Steve Wilson, Also Sprach Zarathustra - Eumir Deodato Trio Live,Chan Chan - Buena Vista Social Club and Birds by Dominique Fils-Aime).

Compared LAiV v Topping D90SE v Sony ES Modwright v Oppo Modwright v Theta DS Pro Gen V.

The Sony, Oppo and Theta sound similar; clean yet not sterile

The Topping is fast narrow soundstage some sibilance

LAiV good lows, wide and clear mids sparkling highs with no excessive sibilance.   Listening to acoustic guitars and wind instruments, it is clean and enjoyable.

No listening fatigue!

All in all, I like it very much.  This were a couple/three hours. More to come.

I bought a second  hand Merason Frerot DAC with the external power supply over a year ago ( @ Zlone I would recommend it) and I am truly enjoying the detail and sound stage I never knew existed. 
 

@agentwja Thanks, I am pretty sure a Merason is in my future. Probably the new Reuss model.

Honestly though, I didn't ever think I would be springing for a DAC that cost more than my amp & pre-amp combined.

I will always remember what my Linn dealer said 20+ years ago:  $5000 sources with $500 amplifiers always sounded better than the $500 sources with $5000 amplifiers. Sources then meaning vinyl and cd spinners. 

@mclinnguy That should have read "VAC" has sucked my dry, lol! Honestly though, I didn't ever think I would be springing for a DAC that cost more than my amp & pre-amp combined.

@agentwja thanks for the tip on the Merason Frerot DAC. There is the MF DAC: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb9bi0-merason-frerot-dac-d-a-converter-pow1-lps-63219-da-converters?refsource=hifishark

and then there is the Merason DAC1:

: https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/650096273-merason-dac-1-mk1/

It would be the later here that I think I would consider. Thanks

I bought a second  hand Merason Frerot DAC with the external power supply over a year ago ( @ Zlone I would recommend it) and I am truly enjoying the detail and sound stage I never knew existed. I stream through a Blusound Node2i. I have no plans to upgrade at the minute. 
 

this DAC has sucked me dry

Wow, that must be quite the DAC. 

OK, I boned up on it & have got it now (with the D.BOB.) It sounds interesting, but this DAC has sucked me dry, but I'll keep in mind, thanks again!

My DACs do not have HDMI either.

The HDMI I refer to is the output from the transport. In my case the transport is a used $250 OPPO Blu-ray player. That HDMI goes into the D.BOB. The D.BOB outputs SPDIF, which I expect any DAC you buy to have. The DAC ouput goes into your preamp.

This is reference level SACD and CD sound for under $1k for me. I am comparing this to the reference level Sony SCD-1 modded by Vacuum State. 

@yyzsantabarbara The DAC I’m getting doesn’t have an HDMI port so I think I’m kind of out of luck with your suggestion. But thanks anyways!

@audphile1 @tvad thank you for your words of encouragement, I will heed your advice(s)

CD transport, unless it’s the caliber of Audio Note or Jays Audio

Do not see the need for such high caliber transport when the output is HDMI (DSD or PCM). 

Set it up and enjoy. Don’t worry about roon. 

I'm with ya there. I need to spend more time with the N200 rather than thinking CDs. I had a lot of trouble getting things up and running smoothly at first. Lot's of back & forth with tech support and little time to play with it. 

Finally finished my 3 1/2 year remodel and mostly done with my dad's affairs, so after my daughter's 2 week visit (and I get my M1) I'm all over it!!!

It came with one fully loaded SSD card with a bunch of music already on it, so it's career itself just getting on to the network, and into the N200 to sort all those tunes out, let alone adding more,

Now there's the Roon factor and figuring out if I even want go there.

I played around with it. It’s fun for a while and I love it but then it gets old. 
I still have around 2,000 CDs and a good collection of vinyl. I definitely don’t see myself going back to analog. I had a decent sounding setup though but it was a constant arms race between analog and digital and I ended up being neither here nor there. Sold the table, cartridge and phono stage. Focused on digital. Never looked back. 

@audphile1 make sense to me, but it's just like I went from records to CDs. Ya kinda miss that interaction.

CD transport, unless it’s the caliber of Audio Note or Jays Audio, is most likely a waste of money, time and space when you have N200 as a streamer with Bricasti M1S2 dac. You can rip CDs onto SSD and mount it inside the N200. And I would only do this with CDs that aren’t available for streaming and you can’t live without.  
 

@yyzsantabarbara  I am done spending money too!  The M1 is my last kick at the cat. The audio component cookie jar has all but dried up! With streaming, I really don't need a CD player. If I come to downsize at some point, I'll definitely look into the D.BOB. at that time. Thanks

Read up on the D.BOB on Stereophile or some other places. Mine cost $650 but it has gone up in price to $1k. Excellent way to listen to CD's and SACD's. My frame of reference is the great Sony SCD-1 SACD player (modded), which died after 20+ years.

BTW - that Yggi+ OG DAC I got now has about 100 hours on it and I am done DAC shopping for the Livingroom. Amazing sound.

Yggi+ OG | Benchmark HPA4 preamp | CODA #16 | Yamaha NS5000 speakers

I am not going to spend $15k-$24k on a better DAC as was the original plan.

@yyzsantabarbara Thanks, the URD looks interesting, for sure, but I'm more into your Oppo price range!

The Schitt URD is interesting and similar to the D.BOB I have for SACD/CD

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in Texas and California ($1300)

The URD is a transport with streaming bypass that will allow you to use your Briscasti M1 SE.

My D.BOB is similar but I use a used $250 OPPO player to take DSD or PCM via HDMI into my DAC.

@tomwipf although I do have quite a few CDs still so if you happen to run across a good deal on a CD player, maybe I could hook it up and have a listen. Especially while I’m waiting for my M1! Lol.

@tomwipf Yes, I see there is one listed here on AG but I am committed now to the Bricasti M1 SE II...fingers crossed that it's end game for me!

Used QX-5 are less than $5k which I will never understand. Ayre Codex, QB9 are even less.

@fleschler I don't play CD's nor do I have $24K for a Poseidon, but thanks for sharing!

@navyachts Sorry to hear that.  My Poseidon will be on the top shelf of a tall rack.  

I was able to place my Jay's Audio transport in a 10" high rack shelf.  There's still 5" to slide the drawer open and place the CD with puck above it in one smooth install.  I don't have to look even.  The Shanling ET3 in black was difficult as the heavy, black glass puck had to fit within a very snug opening even though it had ample space, it would have been much better on a top shelf for access.  

@tomwipf Nice, but way over my budget...Enjoy!

I sold my $20,950 Bartok Apex, bought a $15,000 Ayre Acoustics QX-5 Twenty (full, ethernet and usb options) and couldn't be happier. The QX-5 is better in every way. It's an easy choice. The timbre(transient information) and bass coming out of the QX-5 is exceptional - with Bartok Apex, not so much. The Ayre L5xe, "Ayre Conditioner," is a power product which makes a huge difference to relax the highs and add weight and extension to the bass. The QX-5/L5xe combo is the most analog sounding streamer I've heard. It makes me think I'm listening to records. The QX-5 should cost 2-3x as much comparing it to Bartok Apex. It's that much better. Cheers!

tit for @tak1 🙄

Oh brother. You're just a superior human being in every way. 

First, they were not uber expensive. 

"However, I do not regret my decision to pass on those tubes.": 

You don't know what you don't know.  You can only make that statement by trying them out. 

@tvad    Yes, well, I don't know specifically what you tried, but for me and others that I've talked to (Owners) the EMM Rec tube was a significant improvement as were the Black Treasures,. Better than the BTs, are dual C3g's (German) for each channel using adapters from China. Truly, brought the Baltic to another level.

@joc3021 OK, I'll add it to the list, although I'm kinda committed to the Bricasti at this point, thx.

+1 on the Ayre recommendation. I also have the QX 5 Twenty.  The internal Ethernet streaming card is very good, but a good dedicated streamer, e.g Aurender, innous, takes things up a big notch. That's been my experience with other good DACs, a good, dedicated streamer adds a lot.

@tak1 I have heard wonderful things about Lampizator, maybe in my next life...

Very sorry to hear. The Batic 4 truly is the sweet spot of the line up. And using Emission Labs Rectifier with a couple of other options for the driver tubes is just wonderful, So fluid and dynamic and resolving. Greg Weaver's vid on the Baltic 3 is working listening to. The B-4 is better. If there is any way to add a shelf or a separate rack, it would worth the effort, IMHO. Good luck. 

@tak1 tubes won't clear the shelf on my rack.

navyachts;  4 words; the Lampizator Baltic 4 ~!!! End of story. ok, a few more. 

Me too, hope so!

mclinnguy

260 posts

05-06-2024 at 09:36am 

@navyachts looking forward to your Gustard/Bricasti comparisons. 🎶
 

Same here. I’m pretty certain though the M1S2 will knock the Gustard DAC in the dirt.
 

@navyachts looking forward to your Gustard/Bricasti comparisons. 🎶

@verdantaudio thanks, but I have already purchased a Bricasti M1 and am currently upgrading it to a Series II. Figures crossed this is going to be "The DAC!"

If you want a DAC with no other features I can think of a few.  At the lower end (sub $5k) there are more.  
 

SoulNote DACs are just DACs.  I believe they have a SE version at $7k (d-1), balanced at $9k (d-2) and reference at $35k (d-3 plus clock).  I found the d-2 indistinguishable from the DAC portion of the Lumin X1.  

Another brand is Aries Cerat but the Helene starts at $19k and they go up from there.

the Emm labs DA2 is DAC only but list is $30k.  Used units should up in the $15k range. 

you can bypass the volume control in many units (Meitner, playback designs, etc…) 
 

we have tested dozens of DACs and always look at the DAC stage without any other features.  I validate the line stage works but never use it.  Even in very high end devices like the Berkeley and Playback products.  Streamers are different.  They usually are better only my experience due to internal I2S connection.