Well, I'm stating the obvious here, but the vinyl was cut from the higher res digital masters, so yeah, they should sound better than the cds, which are dumbed down to 16/44.
By the way, I'm digging my copy of III more and more as time goes on. |
Low, sorry, I've been on an iPad and those aren't really hyperlinks. You'd
have to copy and paste the whole data set in to get to the threads. But, if
you do a couple searches on the Hoffman site itself, with respect to LZ CDs
and remasters, I think you'll find the threads. PS: If I understand the
process, they would have used the same digital transfers but the mastering
for Mothership was different than the Marino CDs from what I read. I'm
gonna stick to vinyl, it's easier for my antediluvian brain to process
(figuratively speaking). |
Whart...I'm getting errors trying to link to Steve Hoffman.
I forgot about the LZ "Remasters" Box set from 1992, so it's very possible you are correct that earlier remasters were used. There was a lot of excitement back then when LZ was finally remastered. |
I purchased the 24-bit version of LZ 3 from HD tracks. There was a bit more background noise as compared to the boxed-set CD pressings of a few years back, but there was a lot more palpable energy. |
Low- this may just add to the confusion, and since I never focused on the
various CD versions of Zep, I can't really comment. But, apparently there
have been a number of remasters on CD over the years, and post #41 in
the first link below addresses Mothership in particular. There are also Barry
Diament (apparently the original cds) and Marino remasters. Apparently,
the transfers used for the Marino remasters, circa the early 90's, were the
basis for Mothership remastered by John Davis, if I am reading this
correctly.
I have no dog in this fight, so am willing to stand corrected, but offer it only
for additional
information, per the Hoffman forum:
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/led-zeppelin-original-cds-vs-
remasters.236470/page-2
(look at post #41).
See also,
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/led-zeppelin-non-
remastered-cds-question.88238/
(Post #12)
Finally, I think John Davis is the guy that did the actual remastering of the
2014 stuff, which I gather is also the same for the Zep mastered for
iTunes?
And did the Celebration Day release? (which was the 02 concert).
I can safely say that all of this requires someone with more knowledge than
me, at least on the CDs. (I did manage to hear them at the 02 show in
London, and they were surprisingly good for a 'revival' performance. I never
listened to the recording of that show, but probably have it somewhere).
Over and out. |
Low rider, thanks for the info, I finally have the new Led Zep II CD and will have a listen this morning. |
Whart, you may be right regarding Page's reason. But the greatest hits "Early Days/Later Days" were released in 1999/2000 and were pretty good remasters for that time (released on CD and vinyl).
But they don't hold up today when compared to how digital technology has progressed.
I wonder if Mothership came from those digital files. |
I thought Page's whole pitch was that a (digital) remaster hadn't been done in 20 years. I suspect Mothership (which I did buy on vinyl when it came out) was probably derived from those older digital masters. I haven't compared CDs of Mothership (which I don't own) to any 'native' digital files of the 2014 releases, but would assume they improved things- my only focus has been on the vinyl. I already wrote up my preliminary comparisons of the 2014 vinyl of LZ 1 and II to a couple of the highly regarded earlier pressings in a different thread here, but didn't bother with Mothership (vinyl). Since I now also have clean UK first pressings of LZII and III, I can do a short write up of the 2014 LZIII to a Classic III and a UK first pressing. |
Geoffkait...These 3 new remasters clearly do not sound like Mothership. To my ears, they are new mixes with excellent dynamics and separation of instruments. They have good detail in the bassline and a powerful sound from Bonham, something that Mothership lacked. IMHO.
Plant's voice was out in front and may have sounded better on Mothership; here it is mixed closer to how the original albums sounded.
It's possible that after Page saw the enthusiastic response to Mothership, he wanted to remix the entire collection. |
Thanks! My original looks to be a first pressing. It has the Crowley messages and the mastering info in the dead wax. Plus, it has the old Atlantic address on Broadway printed on the label. It was pressed by Monarch to boot. Anyway, the new reissue has much more air and life in the upper octaves. Some may call this bright, but it's what I prefer rather than a dull presentation with rolled off highs, which the original tends to go towards. |
Does anyone know, wasn't Mothership just a taste of these albums that are slowly being released? I kinda doubt Jimmy Page would do an entirely new remastering compared to the one for Mothership six or seven years ago. |
Mmm- I'm sure there are many different sounding Originals, 1st press, 2nd press.... I can't comment on the NEW Zep 3, because I only have Zep 1. Glad you are enjoying it. |
I read the reviews, but I went and bought 'III' anyway based on what I heard at HDTracks and Spotify. I like it better than my original. I am very surprised at this, really. |
That's true, but I still had to hear it for myself. Wanna buy my Zep 1? They do serve their purpose if someone doesn't want to hunt down a nice std pressing! Then of course, the dlx versions contain the extra songs. All that said, I am glad they are selling, and making the analog world prosper. Just wish they were all analog. |
With reviews pouring in across the interwebs - the conclusion is unanimous - the new LZ reissues are not worthy of purchase on vinyl. |
Yeah, I'm gonna wait for the reviews too. Professional and consumer alike. I already have original US pressings of the whole catalog so these would really have to knock me for a loop in order for me to buy them. |
Ah man, reading Fremers article on these new releases made me cancel my preorders... Its for the better. Waiting now is the hardest part |
It's amazing to see some people here saying it sounds good. I'm not sure why there is such disagreement regarding the SQ of Mothership. Everyone on this forum has a good ear for high quality sound; could it be that the people who grew up with LZ and know their sound intimately know that Mothership's sound does not do them justice? In my case, I was in a drummer in my teens in the 1970's playing Led Zep covers. I had a drum kit with a 24" kick drum, 2 floor toms and I learned every trademark lick that Bonham was known for. I will also wait for the reviews to come in for these rereleases |
I had high hopes for sound quality of the new versions until I read Analog Planets take on it.
Mothership is on the shelf behind me, never play it due to sound quality. It's amazing to see some people here saying it sounds good. Mine sucks big time.
I will wait until Analog planet does the reviews on them before wasting more money on inferior recordings that could have had great promise. |
|
If u were dissapointed with Mothership then I would probably pass on these Zep reissues...all others...enjoy the excess of riches.... |
Actusreus...Whenever I've voiced my complaints about Mothership, I appear to be in the minority of opinion.
When listening to this boxed set, I always have various copies of the Atlanic releases to use as a baseline; they are no high-quality sound achievement, but I can hear the cohesiveness of this great combo as I remember them.
The good...the Mothership remaster has almost none-existent tape hiss, air around the instruments, Plant's voice sounds very clean; IOW, they did a great job cleaning up these old recordings. But where is the deep soulful bassline, and where is the thunderous boom of Bonzo's 26" kick-drum ... it's gone. I don't mean to turn this into a review, but it lacks dynamics. I would rather hear some tape hiss in lieu of a lifeless recording.
That's why I was looking forward to these new releases in the hope that they reproduce that LZ monster sound. |
I'm surprised to hear some people think "Mothership" sounded good. To me it was unlistenable. It was mastered ridiculously low and sounded so anemic an Enya record would have more kick and dynamic drive. I found it impossible to bear a full side the many times I attempted to give it another and yet another try. I ended up getting rid of it. |
Thanks. No idea how I missed that. Based on what I read there I cancelled my pre-order for these reissues. I may try one later but if they turn out like the Beatles did recently they're just not necessary. |
Obviously no substitute for good music...I will start with 1 and IV, as these are the most in need of sonic. Improvement...I don't have the famous RL of II...but my copy is quiet and acceptable...ditto for III...after that houses, PG, presence, etc sound pretty decent on orig Lp...
IV has always been a muddy mess until the Classic version...but that had very little bass in my sysytem |
Phase- agree about the production quality being lackluster. These are not 'audiophile' records. That's why, in my estimation, fans who are into sound quality are on a constant, almost futile quest for the best sounding copies. The 'RL' of II is killer, despite the heavy use of effects and tape loops in the production where you can hear generation loss. LZ1 always sounded 'canned' and 'closed in' to my ears, although the Monarchs (and the Classic 45) improve on it. I don't listen much to the other albums, though i have some 'good' copies. The Classic of III has decent sound (i forget which side sounds better).
. |
Same argument surfaced about AC/DC LP reissues years ago...whatever the verdict...I opted for a couple to complete my collection as clean, quiet originals are hard to locate...probably due the same with Zep. |
There is so much speculation going on even on the Analog Planet website.
In creating a new master from analogue tapes, the end result is still a HiRez digital file. Then that file is sent to the record cutter. Just because it's a digital file doesn't mean it will be compressed for CD, as long as the RIAA specs were followed, then I see no problem in cutting a record.
If the anonymous source is correct and the vinyl reissues were cut from digital sources, then we're talking about a less than stellar product. |
I was never that impressed production wise with early Zep Lps...IMHO they didn't hit their stride till Physical G. which sounds amazing on my original LP copy...and the 90s CD sounds pretty darn good as well...Mothership was well done...and a quantum leap over the early period material...I was under the assumption that zep 1-4 were to soon follow...but I am intrigued by the upcoming releases to say the least. |
Somofjim... Go to Analogue Planet Home page and scroll down 3 articles/blogs. It is right there. |
Son, scroll down a few articles on the home page and you'll see M. Fremer's piece re the Zep reissues. |
Fromunda,
I find nothing on Analog Planet about these upcoming reissues. Are you relating something you've actually seen or making a prediction? |
Im still waiting for MusicDirect to send me the Grateful Dead SACD I "pre-ordered" in early December. |
Check out Fremer's Analogue Planet site for a full diatribe on this upcoming LZ reissue disaster. |
My 1969 Atlantic Zeppelin is MINT.
Had classic records copy and decided to keep an original. |
I'm ok with digital remasters, but only if the original analogue tapes were used at some point to create a new master using modern equipment. Then they can keep remastering as digital technology evolves. |
JKarczmit- if you look at the descriptions on Music Direct, the deluxe LP version of LZ 1 is three LPs, two of which are out-takes or previously unreleased material. LZII and LZIII are two LPs each, and the description says the second LP in each is the previously unreleased stuff. No suggestion of 45 rpm or one sided pressings. I think we already read that these were taken from digital files.
Low, as to the Classics being the best representation, not sure. I own several, including the 45 rpm set of LZI, as well as the 45 of Stairway, along with a 33.3 of LZIII from Classic. Haven't heard the 45 of LZII, but would be surprised if it has the impact of the 'RL.' As mentioned, the best pressing of LZI I've heard was a first press by Monarch that I haven't been able to source; the one much loved among Hoffman devotees is the Piros 74 remaster of LZI (which I do have) and it is very good.
I'm not dumping on these newest releases- I've already pre-ordered the deluxe editions and will see how they compare to the many pressings I already have. (And, as I may have mentioned, I'm not absolutely against digital re-do's- the Tull Benefit on vinyl (UK track list) with the Steve Wilson remix sounds better to me than my first UK and US pressings, though that album was very muddy). If these prove to be good, they will be a bargain, given the cost of the Classic 45s and some of the early original pressings. |
I think I'll go for the new 180 Gram pressings to replace my worn-out 1970s Atlantic LPs. I hope these can reproduce the bass-slam of Bonzo's kick-drum better than the Mothership sessions did.
On a different note,
The consensus is that the Classic releases have the best SQ, but is anybody familiar with "The Complete Studio Recordings," remasters, Atlantic/1993 ? Are these CD only or was vinyl released? |
The 2nd LPs are unreleased companion audio which include studio outtakes of songs from each of the studio albums as well as previously unheard compositions...
The 3rd LPs are live concerts that more than likely are embarrassing i.e. hard to listen to - really for completists... |
I have the Classic box with 45 rpm Stairway, but am still curious about these. But the lack of info is staggering. No mention of analog mastering, why 2 LPs of each album unless they are either: 45rpm (no mention), one sided (no mention), or very widely tracked for possibly more dynamics (no mention). Anyone know why each LP is on 2 LPs? Obviously the third LP is the extra stuff. |
Geoff, not sure where that leaves Mothership, which was probably a digital remaster, not of the entire catalog, but certainly within the last 20 years. |
Lowrider- Siddh, in a posting above quotes from a Rolling Stone article that describes these as mastered from hi-rez digital and I have seen other articles that say the same. For what it's worth, though I am pretty much a dyed in the wool analog guy, I have heard digital mastered vinyl that has actually bettered original analog pressings; one example that comes to mind is the Steve Wilson remix of Tull's Benefit- I have a first UK press, a first US press and both are murky, closed-in sounding. The Wilson version is far more revealing without sounding strident.
As to other Zep remasters done all analog, I'm sure the Classics were, as Rockitman indicated; there were also many older reissues and remasters, including, for LZ1 the Piros one I mentioned (which is really good, circa 1974); the old MoFi of LZII (which isn't bad). If you go to Discogs, you can see dozens of reissues by country that were done back in the day before digital become prevalent.
We did a shoot-out of LZI at my house last year which included a UK first pressing (not the turquoise lettered cover, but same matrix numbers), the first US (I think a Presswell) and a first US pressed at Monarch. The last one had far and away more drive than the other two. (At the time, I only had the 33 Classic of LZ1 so we did not compare it to the 45 Classic, which I only acquired later).
I haven't heard the 45 Classic of LZII but FWIW, the 'RL' is far 'hotter' than the other early US pressings of that record.
I'm offering this, not because I purport to know everything Zep, but because I have spend some time and money comparing and buying pressings of these. (And yes, the 45 of Stairway is very good- you can find it out there- I bought a test pressing last year).
Don't ask me about Aqualung, another one of those records that just isn't a great recording to start with, thus driving me to buy an almost endless number of different pressings in search for the best sound. |
I thought Jimmy Page said this is the first time the original tapes have been digitally remastered since twenty years ago. That would seem to suggest this will be a new digital remastering of the original analog tapes. Am I missing something? |
"Remastered from the Original Master Tapes by Jimmy Page and Pressed at Pallas In Germany."
Since the word "analogue" is never mentioned, I agree with Rockitman. But were the analogue tapes ever used for reissues/remasters? |
the bonus material is ho hum
1 new track and 3 outtakes
no Hey Hey What Can I Do bundles with the III second disc
hopefull they do a good job and maybe the Classics Records prices go down some
if they mine the outtakes on Physical Graffitti
"Swan Song" early "In the Light" that will be worth buying |
Looks like there's 5 "versions" for the first 3 coming this spring:
Super Deluxe Edition 3LP + 2CD + Download
3LP Deluxe Remastered Edition
Super Deluxe Edition 2LP + 2CD + Download
2LP Remastered Vinyl
Remastered Vinyl
The 3LP sets include live concerts but as most folks know LZ were a horrible live act. Downright deplorable. So that one is not for me. The "Super Deluxe" 3LP sets with CD and 70 page hard cover booklets is of no interest to me either.
The 2LP Remastered Vinyl (previously unreleased audio, bonus LP) look good. As do just the orig re-releases (1LP) with orig cover art (which as with all reissues the cover art is never as good as the original releases). Hopefully the outer sleeves on all these re-issues will be real cardstock and not some cheap pressed paper imitating card stock. Not to mention the lame gatefolds these days that when you close grab the inner LP sleeves making removal a PITA. |
IMO, it is safe to assume that remastered from the original masters really means, a digital remaster of a 24 bit copy of the original analog tapes. I see no evidence that they are using the analog master for this reissue and cutting a lacquer from the remastered (in analog) master tapes. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Nothing is going to beat the CR issues which were mastered from the analog masters...no digital in the chain. |
Fjn04
the Stairway 45rpm is supposed to be superb. I am envious of that.
I have the Classic 1,2,3,4 and PG. No need for me to search anymore:-)
enjoy yours :-) |
For giggles I compared my std pressing of 2, cat. # SD19127 with the 180G Classic. According to Discogs the std press is a First Press. I usually prefer Std pressings, but not here. The Classic is much more fleshed out, and open. Really not even close. I was going to take out my 200G Classic, but I wasn't up for it tonight. Classic did a great job. I have never heard the RL or a First UK, but I'm real happy w/ the Classic. |
Downunder- I tend to agree, although I may give just one a try. I am well stocked on the Classic too. I have 1/2/4 on 180 gr + the 200 gram box w/ 1/2/3/4 and he Stairway 45.
Sure wish I sprung for the 45 box when it was available. |
