Audioquest Firebird Zero

i’m also saying that it may not be too wise to dump old for new if in fact one was happy with the old. at these prices i’d be looking more at new speakers or components. now that can be a game changer, especially speakers. 

I haven’t read all of the thread but i find it impossible to believe that bill lowe and team weren’t aware of what is called a “game changing” new design by Garth. high end audio cables have been around for over 40yrs so it’s hard to imagine that improvements on a massive scale can be had. every single cable manufacturer markets the latest design as a breakthrough with their new cables less expensive models exceeding the performance of higher priced cables from the “old” line. It’s not just AQ, which I think is very good at making cables and marketing. shunyata is exactly the same. 
imo

Great! But what about the difference between bi-wire combo of Robin Hood vs William Tell. Really big difference in price but cannot think about such a big performance difference. Any experiences ?

oh... huge difference. Apples and oranges 

The bi-wire combo (Zero & Bass) shall be amazing. I just wonder how much of a deference there is to Rocket 88 or Castle Rock. 

There is a William Tell ZERO speaker cable for sale right now at USAM

From what I've read so far, it seems the AudioQuest Zero speaker cables are at least very good alone, but "major" jump in performance when adding the matching BASS cable.  

Some folks gripe that the  AudioQuest Zero speaker cables are a rip off because you have to buy another set of BASS cables in addition to sound great, but I look at AudioQuest Zero+BASS as a single product that easily out-competes with cables that are much more expensive including some of AudioQuest's other offerings.

Oh thank you very much - very interesting! Thee seems though to be quite little review stuff and talk about the Zero speaker cables out there yet. Which is quite strange as they provide such a great value and performance.

Here’s a comparison of between AudioQuest Zero speaker cables:
https://blog.artsexcellence.nl/audioquest-folk-heroes-luidsprekerkabels-review/

Seems to be a very favorable price/performance and as you move up the line you get significant improvements... along with usual  logarithmic increases in price.  

I heard that Robin Hood and William Tell should be absolutely outstanding in price/performance ratio. And when going for a Zero&Bass combo/bi-wiring version it should be a major upgrade in addition. Has anyone auditioned, compared them?

they may not want to sell under that.  DBS is to deplete the charge from building up on the cable or something like that.  I doubt length has anything to do with DBS (or visa versa).  

I haven't heard those specific combo's, but the bi wire is going to work best if your speaker is made to be bi wired.  I will say that you need to audition the wire to see what's best for you.  

@ctsooner ,
When I ordered a set of William Tell's from Johnny, it seems they didn't come any shorter than 1 meter. My office system has my baby monoblocks right near the speakers and 1/2 meter would have been a lot neater (visually), and less expensive.
So, I guess there is a minimum distance the DBS is effective? Or, AQ doesn't want to sell anything under a meter.
B

Hi,

thank you for the responses! :) The audio contact here in Netherlands also said the Firebird should be superior to a Hurricance due to better conductors and that lengths need to be tried and that there good be slightly different sounds but not that one length per se is better.
=> So I‘ll probably go for three 2m hurricanes (easier to handle) for my DAC, my integrated and to the wall. This way I could leave the option open to have a Firebird to the wall in the future and use the third hurricane for the second mono power amp once I upgrade. 
Which brings me to the second question/topic: Speaker cables. :)

First I thought I‘d go for 2x1,5m Hurricanes (single wire). Then I read here that bi-wire is definitely superior with the Mystical creatures, so I thought it through, did the math and said to myself that I could some how afford them.
However, that brings me somewhat closer to a pair single wire Firebirds or even bi-wire (Firebird zero and Thundebird bass). However I could only afford and willing to spend the money for 2x1m length, which means I‘d buy them only once I got a pair of mono power amps due to the shorter distance.
To make a long story short, these are the thoughts in my mind:
- is a bi-wire Thunderbird that much better then a single-wire?
- bi-wire Thunderbird vs single wire Firebird zero?
- is it wise to mix two cables in a Firebird zero / Thundebird bass combo?

Anyone here that has heard any of these combinations?! :)

Kind regards!! 

No issues in length with the AQ cables.  I own both 1 and 2 meter lengths and already tried the 1 and 2 on my Niagara 1000 and there was zero difference in sound.  

AQ will tell you the same thing about length. I guess size doesn't matter to them. lol. 

Bob is right.  As you go up in price, the sound is better.  Lower noise floor due to materials or size of the Teflon tubes.  I own William Tell copper in 8'.  It's the bi wire one and what a difference it makes.  I was told by AQ that the silver version of the Robin Hood would have sounded even better than the regular Tell's.   

@musicguy85,
Interesting post, and nice to hear from German Audiophiles( I have a secret obsession with MBL's).
You make an interesting observation. I just purchased a set of AQ cables and was surprised that they were only offered in 1 meter or more lengths. So, it would seem the DBS requires a certain length in order to be effective. -Though I might be wrong in that assumption.
Re: Hurricane vs. Firebird-
AQ is pretty good at organizing/pricing their cables. If it is higher up on the scale/price level, then it should 'outperform' the cables below them.
If I get a chance, I will call AQ and get the scoop on the length question.
Bob

Hi all,

I‘m reading the AQ Hurricane/Firebird AC & loudspeaker cables reviews with great interest and I‘m considering buying some.

My question is: Need AQ AC cables also be bought in 2m lengths (or more) since they are better sounding than the 1m length version? I‘ve heard that argument for AC cables a couple of times and e.g. Isotek or Shunyata offer only lengths starting from 1,75/2m respectively. My dealer said it wouldn’t matter with AQ power cords (maybe due to active shielding by DBS?).

If e.g. 2m are better it came to my mind of a 2m Hurricane would be equal/better to a 1m Firebird.

Since these cables are rather expensive, it‘s good to clarify prior to purchasing.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

Regards from Germany! :)

Actually many of us do understand burn in just like you do Bo.  It deals with the grain size and boundaries along with a few other details.  

As for the interconnects, don't expect as big a difference in sound as the cords and speaker cables.  Garth is breaking new ground and has measurements to prove this as most know.  

Power is a different beast entirely.  In the end, it comes down to each person's home as well as their system set up.  There is signal crap as well as crap from the mains.  

Bo says "This is why at this moment I do use and sell these products. They all showed a loss in a 3-dimensional stage. This is unacceptable when you judge at a 'High-end' level. It showed too much emphasis like many cable brands also reveal."

Not sure what you are saying.  You say you use and sell 'these products' (which ones?), but you say they all show a loss in a 3-dimensional stage.  Why would you use and sell anything that hurts the stage?  I'm sure it's a language mistake.  Please clarify.

The CAD device actually increased subtly the sound stage.  Bob and I didn't even make comments during the first few songs, but afterwards it was obvious that we both heard the same thing.  It did nothing negative.  

Anyone can make up marketing hyperbole about how to listen and what to listen for, but everyone hears differently.  That's the reality.  Most folks hear what they are told to hear by a dealer who wants to sell gear.  Many of us listen to a lot of live music and some of us have played instruments in bands and know what live music sounds like on stage.

Any audio system is a compromise.  Nothing can sound like live music.  We agree on many things and that includes what Garth is doing.  I remember sitting with Richard Vandersteen, Johnny Rutan and Garth listening to Richards model 7's with his amp and the top AR pre.  The analog was AMG.  Garth had his prototype 7000 and three of his power cords.  They were all in clear jackets as they were prototype's.  Even without letting the cords warm up, you heard a huge difference.  When he left the top cord (Dragon) in all day, it was spellbinding.  We all know what the Dragon does now, but at the time there was nothing like it on the market (and still isn't to my ears).  

Garth is a genius who may go down as one of the biggest innovators in audio.  There are plenty of different flavored speakers, amps, servers, DAC's.....We all have favorites for whatever reason.  I've yet to hear anyone not chose the new AQ cables and cords when doing A/B comparisons.  That to me says it all. 

Back to grounding devices.  I have heard many, but hated them all.  You can ask Bob how skeptical I was doing into the demo at Johnny's.  Most devices just put the noise back into the system and it's why some designers float the ground.  The Teleos (active) and CAD (passive) convert the crap on the line into heat.  Lowering the noise floor is positive in every way as long as it doesn't change the sound.  It just takes away the noise and nothing else.  

The Wel and all other pure silver cables of Audioquest all have a long inburn period. The Wel took about 23 days 24 hours a day before they were able to give the highest level. Silver needs a longer time to burn in compared to copper.

But through research, we found out that even after 800 hours we could measure an improved level of sound and stage. We could hear more details, layers and also improved low frequencies.

With the latest Monitor Audio Gold series, we had again the same experiences. We did measure at 400 hours, 800 hours and after 1000 hours. And again we had a clear improvement in low, mid and high frequencies.

People have no idea how long burn-in periods are of cables and components.

I also did test different ground cable products. The problem is that most people can not judge audio on all aspects/properties of sound. When you test ground cables on all aspects of sound, you will find out that it does not improve all aspects of sound.

This is why at this moment I do use and sell these products. They all showed a loss in a 3-dimensional stage. This is unacceptable when you judge at a 'High-end' level. It showed too much emphasis like many cable brands also reveal.

Creating a different sound is very easy in audio. But people forget that you need to be able to judge on 8 different aspects of sound at 1/10 of a second. Humans can perceive between 1 and 3 different aspects of sound at the same time. This is why they make the wrong decisions!

I will definitely buy the Interconnects designed by Garth. Whenever they come out. I will wait patiently 

I have done many tests on audio cables in over 21 years of time. And sold many brands you all know. The current Audioquest power cables, Mythical Creatures, and Folks Heroes series are a huge step up in cables. They all have a lot less compression than other brands.

In all these 21 years of time, I never auditioned a brand in cables who made such a big step forward compared to the former series of the same brand. This year Audioquest will focus on the more affordable loudspeaker cables. The interconnects will come after that. I am sure they will a big step as they proved with the new power cables and loudspeaker cables.

@ozzy ,
I was with ctsooner at Audioconnection when Johnny demoed the CAD unit. Subtle, but noticable change- blacker background, more detail coming through. I should get one, too.
In any case, just call Johnny directly. He will set you up.
Here is the website:
https://www.computeraudiodesign.com/gc1-ground-control/

Bob

ctsooner,

I don't see any info on the CAD grounding unit that you have referred to on the Audioquest website. Can you point me in the right direction as to price and configuration?

ozzy

WEL will not be discontinued is my understanding. In fact it’s going up $250 per pr on Feb 28. WBY is history. I suppose a new breakthrough technology has been found after 40 or so years. I/we are so blind to audio manipulation. I know there’s no possible breakthrough but still want to try something new like a fool. IMO 

WEL and Wild Blue Yonder are discontinued, Fire is now top of line IC.
i have Wild Blue in my Ref system with a Niagara, and Fire in 2nd system. Hopefully AQ will develop replacements...

You need to understand when you can use silver in power cords. I own a Dragon HC on my subwoofer. But I would never use it on my Gryphon power amp. Due to the 100% fact that silver works negatively when you judge audio on all 8 aspects/properties on power amps. The harmonics are essential for emotion in music.

When you use silver power cables for sources, power amps, preamps, and power supplies, you will influence the layering in sound a lot. I use Wel Signature xlr interconnects. But they work a lot differently compared to how power cables work.

I also use the Fire Zero+Bass version. Audioquest does not use 100% silver in their most expensive loudspeakers cables anymore. I understand why (due to thousands of hours in the research of cables in over 21 years of time) they use copper as well.

In 2021 new Audioquest interconnects will come!

Sorry, been off the board a bit this week.  It's a grounding device.  Call Rutan about how it works etc....  He's one of a couple of dealers in the US for it.  There were a few of us in the store and he was able to plug it in and pull it out during the demo's as it's a passive device.  He showed it on the DAC and integrated (pre side) adn then only DAC and then only pre....  We were all blown away and heard the same thing and it was immediate.  

As much as I love Johnny, I also like a lot of other dealers, but he's one of a few selling it.  It's Audio Connection in Verona, NJ.  

We have similar cords/cables, lol.  I have heard the Dragon and nearly went that route when I purchased my cords.  I was buying three and one had to be a 2m so there wasn't anyway I was going that route, lol.  I still need to cords for my Vandersteen speakers as they are active.  I was also holding out hope that Garth would come out with a new outlet for the wall.  I love the top Furetech as I heard it against the others and it was no contest.It's still amazing to me how that can affect the sound so much too.

Hi @ctsooner I totally agree on Garth's stuff. I only have some Hurricane power cords, and William Tell bi-wire combo speaker cables, and they are top notch for sure. Planning to get a Firebird power cord to try, although they are so expensive, and need to find an awesome deal to get one.

Thyname, you may very well be right, but I was told by someone at AQ that it was Garth heading the team that's re designing their interconnects.  Either way, they are updating the line and Garth has really transformed AQ in a positive way.  Even friends who didn't like AQ before, are loving the new stuff.  

I totally understand your enthusiasm @ctsooner . But I don’t think Garth is involved with AQ interconnects yet. Just power, ac cords, and two top tiers of speaker cables (from mythical heroes and up)

I was doing a lot of work behind my system a few months ago and having MS, I can't do the heavy lifting etc, so I had a friend hook up my Laufer Technique Server/DAC with my new AQ Hurricane cord.  I was in shock at how great the change was. I already shared that on so many threads.  I've had the top cords from most companies in the system over the last year or so adn the Hurricane was best and it's not that close in most cases.

I was blown away by the sound of my system.  Just happy.  Well, I had to make another change in Dec and noticed that the interconnects were the Niagara balanced I used to own.  I am about to put them on the market and wasn't able to find them, but forgot about it.  

Wouldn't you know, he never hooked up the AQ WEL's balanced that I use.  I installed the WEL's, but the fuses on my Ayre AX5/20 blew so I had to wait to get them back.  I have been burning in the system for about a month now.  I haven't had a chance to listen much for many reasons, but today I'm listening.  

HOLY CRAP Batman!!!  If anyone else's Vandersteen Quatro's sound this good, I have to hear them.  As many of you know, I have heard a lot of top end gear and continue to do so.  There is a lot of hyped gear that isn't all that.  There are a lot of pieces that are great values and there are very very few pieces that are worth the price that list over 50k.  This is my own opinion based on my own ears.

That said, this system is sick good and I'm getting the CAD grounding unit that will lower the noise floor even more.  I know what it does to any price system and to me, it's a MUST.  Johnny Rutan at Audio Connection in NJ let me hear it on a few pieces and it is a game changer for about 1900.00.  I just called him to order mine. It's a must if you can afford one.  He's the only dealer I know of, but I'm sure there are others.

In any case, with the WEL everything is better.  Lower noise floor, smoother, but my dynamic.  Micro and macro dynamics are just off the charts.  The sound stage has snapped into place like most 30k plus speakers.  I know the Hurricane's cost a bit and the new William Tell speaker cables aren't cheap.  I only have the Niagara 1000, so I know I can do better there too, but not sure I will though.  

Had to share how awesome the new AQ stuff is.  Garth is a freaking genius. 

bo1972

I am looking forward in reading that report/review.

Happy Listening!

ctsooner

Thank You for the continued update on your cables/system.

Happy Listening!

I'm talking about only the copper versions.  The Hood/silver are better (smoother, dynamics, detail etc) than my copper Tell's.  The Tell vs Hood offer the same things over the Hood's.  You have to really look at the price difference and your equipment costs to really see if the Tell is worth the move up. 

I have had both in my system and the Tell's were THAT much better in everything.  Many lines of cables will give you a bit better (lower noise floor/detail, dynamics yada yada) as you move up.  I feel that with the new AQ line, they have given you a much larger gap between cables as you move up.  They just get out of the way of the music more and more as you go to the next line in both power cords and speaker cables.  

I don't fully understand all the Garth has done with these two lines, but they talk on the site about all of it.  I can honestly say that going with a legit two cable, bi wire where there is a special cable just for the bass was a GAME CHANGER in MY system.  It was worth more to my ears than getting a better integrated amp.  It was not incremental.  even my non audio friends and wife heard a tremendous difference.  They didn't care, but they heard it and I never told my wife that I changed cables.  She did the same thing with the Hurricanes when I got them and never said a word.  She just asked what I changed since the speakers and boxes looked the same to her.  

@ctsooner Congrats on the new cable. How do the William Tells compare to the Robin Hoods? What are the biggest differences and similarities?

Bo, you aren't the only one who knows audio and cables etc...  I also know from my own two ears that it even gets better up til over 1000 hours.  Garth will tell you the same thing if you ask him.  

What you fail to also understand is that some folks won't hear as big a difference if their system isn't up to speed.  I know that you and only you will use your patented system to put together the BEST components that you measure.  Even if we all hear differently, your system will be the best ever. I think that sums up nearly every post you make on AG, so that's the bench mark.

Back to the real thread.

I now have 300 hours and counting and it's getting so much better.  The dynamics are just insane and the depth of the sound stage is not longer truncated in the rear.  I'm blown away by the quality of bass my system is now exhibiting.  These cables are nothing short of sensational.  I had Odin's in two months ago and they were nothing even close to what I'm hearing now.  Same with the Transparent and MIT's (forget which model's but they were both in the 10k 8' run range).  Friend brought them over to audition.  

It needs at least 600 hours. We know this because we use a professional measurement system for the acoustic. When we compare the Audioquest cables between 400 hours burning in vs 600 hours the dynamics go deeper and wel also hear more details and layering.

Burn in is going well.  It's fun to hear the subtle differences as they burn. I'm so glad to have gotten these.  Just amazing.

I have my Sopra 2's hooked up with William Tell Zero cables. I am very happy with the combination. I'm sure that my McIntosh C47 preamp and MC462 amp have something to do with the sound quality as well. 

Talking about facts. Women have a better-developed hearing compared to men. But..........men have a lot more interest in audio equipment. In all those years I was often amazed at how good some women could hear and name all the differences of sound during a shootout.

Since when does trial&error have a real foundation?

Tell us ctsooner what your foundation is in your choices? And how you make your decisions regarding audio

Voices and instruments sound as they sound in reality. They even have a shape and a proportion. So the perfect system would be that system that is able to reproduce how it sounded when it was recorded.

So this has nothing to do with any kind of personal nonsense. The emotion only can be found in the music. No component can create more or even extra emotion to the music.

There are only a few loudspeakers, components and even cables that can reveal all aspects of sound. But........most are not able to reveal all those different aspects of sound. This has 100% nothing to do with personal taste. No human being will prefer and choose a system that is incomplete compared to any system that is able to reveal all the aspects of sound. Your emotion will always overrule any incomplete audio system compared to the one that can let you perceive all the different aspects of sound.

Tru-Fi means True Fidelity. And has no commercial purpose or meaning. It stands for all the different aspects/properties sound owns. This has nothing to do with any kind of personal taste. We are just simply talking about facts. Sound and stage can show us all the different aspects the music possesses.

This is why we invite Audioquest. To show and proof that the way they make decisions for their demo systems is incomplete regarding the aspects of sound. We can easily proof by sound and stage which ones are missing.

Tru-Fi systems are so much more accurate, that it even becomes easy for all people to hear and perceive what those different aspects are of music and sound.

When you add those aspects of sound which are missing to an audio system, we can even show that all Audioquest cables become a lot more effective. This is why all Tru-Fi owners think a lot different about Audioquest cables. So we will let them speak what those differences are......

For those who know audio and build their systems properly, they need to realize that this Tru-Fi stuff is 100% marketing.  Nearly every dealer I know will listen to tons of gear on a consistent basis to make sure they know what sounds best as a system.  

As these threads aren't trying to be commercials, all I need to say is that my WT's are so new that they aren't even close to being burned in.  I'm in amazement as I listen to them.  I've had so many top cables as I've stated and nothing is even close.  Even my wife commented this morning on how amazing these are.  I didn't tell her I installed new cables yesterday, but she noticed right away.  She started using terms like better definition, bass=deeper with more snap.  She just sat and listened with me for a spell.  I then told her what the difference was and she was amazed.  I hide all my cables with silk plants etc.., so there was no way she noticed the new ones.  

I've spoken to Garth at length about his measurements etc.., but we still need to listen to see what sounds best to us as we all hear differently.