My point: A hobby is just that. If people demo a product and do not like it then where is the harm/snake oil? We are all grown up.Thanks for your wise post....
My best to you....
Are Shakti Stones effective?
I have never used Shakti Stones and wonder if they really work and, if so, what do they do, I have used the Shakti Holographs and found them to magically focus the sound and tighten the soundstage. From what I have heard, even from Shakti, is that the stones make a significant difference is some usage and less in other. Has anyone used these and what do they do?
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If people demo a product and do not like it then where is the harm/snake oil? We are all grown up.The problem is the "gullible" who don't have the knowledge here pay these sharks good money for their snake oil products, (like a 10cent fuse for $150) that's "directional" in an AC circuit. And if? "you think there’s nothing wrong with that", then you are also part of the problem. THERE"S THE HARM |
You assume that anybody who will buy something to try is "gullible"... You assume that all products that work for some but not for all are "snake oil"... You assume YOU must speak for all people and in their name... You accuse anybody that does not assume what your saying is "part of the problem " and is "harmful"... Anybody can deduce what is your problem.... I will let others conclude... :) By the way i devise for myself many homemade devices that work well, that is proof for myself that all products proposed to audiophiles are not necessarily fraud.... Your accusations are baseless in their overall range.... What make me smile is your allegations about "your knowledge".... Anyway i wish you the best.... |
The main important first knowledge fact in audio life is this one, some of us learned the hard way: Past some point in technological electronic engineering improvement in the past collective or personal history, the main improvement coming from an audio system, come less from an electronical design new progress than from an improved control of the mechanical, electrical and acoustical embeddings of the audio system... Most embeddings controls are often simple devices and also sometimes simple advices (speakers positioning) and play now the first role in the increasing of the S.Q. of an audio system... The devices i created for myself cost peanuts and worked so much that they transform my basic vintage good audio system to a new level ... Anybody can make them, anybody can create better device at low costs.... Knowing that it is not so much buying better gear, past some point of your purchasing history, that will improve your system, the so called "upgrading process", but the increasing controls of the mechanical electrical, and acoustical dimensions is the most important basic fact in audio life... Dont upgrade anything before embedding everything rightfully.... This is the basic axiom of audio.... And the ONLY important knowledge for most of us, engineers or not..... |
@mahgister- I've always held that the first three letters of, "assumptions", described those that make them. The cult of the Naysayer Doctrine, wants you to accept their revelations, by faith (ie: YOUR senses and mental faculties are worthless and deceitful). You MUST follow their precepts, or- be eternally DAMNED to partake of their (seemingly) inexhaustible fountain of ubiquitous, misinformed/uneducated, faith-based, hubris-salted, BLATHER. Well: at least until they manage to get a thread removed, through their antagonistic barking (salvation preaching, no doubt, to their fevered, tormented minds). |
rodman99999 The cult of the Naysayer Doctrine, wants you to accept their revelations, by faith (ie: YOUR senses and mental faculties are worthless and deceitful) ...This is absolutely true and it's one of the great ironies in audio. Many of those who would proclaim themselves "objectivists" are actually those consumed by a faith-based belief system. That's why they can so readily reject observations that aren't consistent with their beliefs. It is the very nature of faith; it requires no proof. Empirical evidence is just an inconvenience to the measurementalists, who seek comfort and security in their faith. And just like some religious fundamentalists, the measurementalists can be tireless in their evangelical proselytizing. |
Exactly! Far as, "harm": the incessant, unfortunate presentation of their beliefs as categorical imperative, or- TRUTH, rather than as the misinformed, uneducated and (largely) untested OPINIONS they are, is what I believe contrary to (what used to be) the spirit of this website. The thought that they could succeed in dissuading a new audio enthusiast from experimenting for themselves (regardless of the topic or component) and being robbed of potential listening pleasure, is what dismays me.
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rodman99999 Far as, "harm": the incessant, unfortunate presentation of their beliefs as categorical imperative, or- TRUTH, rather than as the misinformed, uneducated and (largely) untested OPINIONS they are, is what I believe contrary to (what used to be) the spirit of this website. The thought that they could succeed in dissuading a new audio enthusiast from experimenting for themselves (regardless of the topic or component) and being robbed of potential listening pleasure, is what dismays me.At the risk of splitting hairs with you, @rodman99999 it is actually much worse than that. Not only do the measurementalists discourage experimentation, but they will dismiss wholesale the result. Check out this thread: audio2design No, you think it sounds better to you. That is completely meaningless to other peopleEven the report of a sonic preference can be dismissed with the wave of the hand. Which prompts the question: Of what value is this website if we can’t report our experiences and preferences? |
Alleged knowledge cannot replace common sense experiments and listening experiments... And dogmatically affirming that hearing capabilities are biased is ridiculous.... We live each one of us with a unique singular structural hearing capacity with his own specific limitation.... And with this all the same we learn or not to arrange our audio system on an optimal way FOR OURSELF.... I will repeat also this: electronic design tech. cannot replace the method and measures of control we must implement, mechanically, electrically, and acoustically to optimize ALL audio system and often put it on another level completely... Not knowing that is knowing nothing.....Costly upgrade is often half truth , often unnecessary, on the road to improvement....What is lacking is the RIGHT way to embed the audio system.... Audio experience is not reducible to the electronic aspect of the component, even the newer hyped one, sorry..... :) |
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georgehifi: "So those companies recruit very carefully so they are not implicated for fraud with their snake oil, that why you NEVER see them or their staff spruiking their voodoo snake oil rubbish to the gullible here on these pages."Care to identify "those companies"? Who are "they" who have enlisted me to sell "snake oil"? I somehow missed out on the "spruiking". Sounds like fun! Missed out on the financial incentives too. What’s up with that? Sorry. Deniers are wrapped in their self-denial tighter than a mad cat at the vet's. |
audio2design Oh please, @cleeds , At least attempt to be honest. Your pulling a comment I made out of context is disgusting behavior.I understand that having your religious zeal exposed makes you uncomfortable, but that's a price fundamental evangelists face. When you preach here, it's only fair for non-believers to be able to quote you and respond. If you truly think that's "disgusting," I suggest you alert the moderators. As you well know, those who abuse this forum can have their accounts deleted, requiring you to register under another username. |
I think the best test of whether anything is "snake oil" which likely relies on confirmation bias with often unproven or made up benefits ("Quantum Tunneling?"), is the general acceptance in the audio community including manufacturers. If there’s a market to be exploited it will be, but the utter lack of popularity of most "magic" audio tweaks says it all...for example, most amp designers don’t care at all about "premium fuses" and you can bet they would if those fuses performed even a small fraction of the benefits hyperbole suggests. Better IC and speaker cables are accepted as an actual improvement over otherwise, and higher performance parts with closer tolerances are everywhere...but Shakti Stones, Mpingo discs, special clocks, pricey fuses, cable risers, etc., don’t get much traction because they obviously aren’t actually useful to the vast majority of careful listeners, and those listeners are often dismissed by self appointed experts as lacking hearing ability since they might not buy into the silliness. |
Great misunderstanding comes from the conflating of disparate "tweaks" good or not with the methodical way to control the mechanical, electrical and acoustical dimensions or like i name it embeddings... Disinformation do not only comes from those who alledgely sells what is or is not "snake oil" but comes from those who think good electronic is the ONLY way to increase S.Q. Ignorance may comes from sellers who pitch their product with false claims sometimes perhaps but also from those self proclaimed expert who think that any good electronic design is the beginning and the end of the story... Sorry but for example, gives me some relatively good speakers and i will makes it with some embeddings controls on par or better than a 10 times more costly one which would be put in a room out of the box without any embeddings controls.... is this difficult to understand? :) Consult any acoustical engineer....They know that speakers cannot sound better than the room where they are working.... Add to the acoustical control embedding, the mechanical control, and the electrical grid control and you will have audiophile top experience with any "relatively" good speakers.... Suppress all these embeddings controls and the only way to increase S.Q. will be great, very great expanse for a lesser result most of the times... Audio experience is not reducible to quality electronic design..... |
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tobor007 !!!!!!!!!!!! This has to be a "Gee up"? Please tell me it’s so? https://www.yourdictionary.com/gee-up |
When i go to movie, seeing a part where someone is deceived or fooled by some gimmick and is mocked by a third party, my despise go toward those who mock the victim almost on par with those who consciouly have deceived it.... I dont know for the shakti stone, some sense audible effects others not.... It is clear that it is not "snake oil" in the original meaning of the expression... I know for a fact that device controls even simple one gives astounding results in some context..... |
Alas! Too easy sarcasm does not always count as wit, press wood does not sustain ceiling and wall.....Next try.... : )😊 i dont know anything like i said about shakti stone efficiency in some audio system....I just dont like to accuse anybody without absolute proof of deception.... Thats all.... And i know perfectly well first hand that many device work without easy accepted or conventional explanation.... Anybody can take the conventional road .... I prefer sometimes not..... 🛑⛔🚫 |
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Yes beyond any doubt and proven by my personal experience. If you take one of these and face the top side down and hurl it just right I have found I get more skips across the pond than any other stone I have used. I think the electronics help stabilize it's flight path and while I can't explain the deep science behind these I can vouch for their effective use. |
Anyway my experience is that any audio system and any listener live together in specific histories state and sensing and perceiving differences can vary much between different audio systems states and the learned sensibility of the owner relatively to S.Q. Then the probability that a "tweak" could be a complete fraud if this tweak attract some positive reviews along decades,or more than few years of existence, is not a so high probability... And saying like some that all audiophiles are gullible is too stupid remark for me to comment it.... :) Then we must be cautious to gives the baby with the bath waters.... I dont know if shakti stone gives benefit or not for sure... I am tempted to think they dont give much tough because i trust some people i read who wrote about...But.... My best to all..... |
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My Shakti Stone stopped working. How do I replace the battery in it?Send them to @geoffkait, he send them on to "19712 Gilman Springs Rd,San Jacinto, Riverside County, California", for a recharge. https://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm Cheers George |
@slaw snake oil[ˈsnāk ˌoil]NOUNinformalNORTH AMERICANsnake oil (noun) · snakeoil (noun)
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I purchased my first shakti stone back in 2012 because my local dealer let me try it before I made my purchase. I lived in an apartment. At that time I had a setup that I thought I was thoughtful enough to take care the power supply lines. Equitech in-wall isolation transformer with four dedicated power lines, quality cabling, receptacles, robust stack and vibration control, to serve my cdp (Soulution), amp (ASR Emitter II). Placed Shakti on top of my cdp and amp, I could immediately hear the background was darker, soundstage was more defined and clearer, less digital sounding with more flesh. The effect was quite huge and overall there was little downside (Yes, no tweak is perfect, using too much could have negative effect like image is too focus/tight and not comfortable to listen to). Now in 2021, I no longer play serious hifi. Shakti stone, along with my many tweaks were idle for a few years already. I recently enjoyed watching Netflix on TV, my Internet's power supply chains all use LPS with vibration control (Yes, they improve both video and audio quality). Now I place Shakti on top of my LPS for router, the overly bright/dazzling light on my OLED TV is reduced greatly (I also use grounding box, it helps too), the subtitle on Netflix is very comfortable to read and look at, more natural skin tone more refine sound. I also tried EMI/RFI absorber sheet, on paper they should yield similar result but you need to find out the right range of Hz and careful placement for your device. To me, if 3M EMI/RFI absorber sheet has an effect of 1, Shakti has an effect of 3. I just order Shakti Air recently, they have not arrived yet. Next time I will place one inside my Equitech power box to see the outcome. |
