Not at all. Horns, like cone speakers, come in a variety of performance capabilities. IOW, some work very well, are highly revealing and others pretty much suck at the same task- just like cone or for that matter planar speakers. It would be throwing out the baby with the bath to assume that just because one horn speaker sounds terrible, that they all do! |
Luke,
I have found the violon highs indeed a joy, wonderfully musical & a sight to behold. I am about to get the esoteric p-01/d-01/g-0s system with them in a few weeks - the plasma tweeter is aparently even more of a revelation with excellent SCAD playback. Do an audition, life is short & the pleasure you'll get from these speakers is in the same league as great sex.
Dr Jonathan Spratt |
The RINGING of metal horns cause SEVERE MIGRAINE headaches. The concentrated sound can SHATTER SKULL BONES. I would not get within one quarter mile of a working metal horn, these are called DRIVERS because they drive you NUTS. Horns are only good on tug boats and firetrucks. JBL originally designed the 375 as a tug boat horn for foggy days. It was later used in the KOREAN WAR on the end of a four foot tube as a weapon to shatter skull bones. I suggest that anyone using a compression driver get an MRI of the skull on a weekly basis to check for fractures of the skull. The high intensity acoustic waves can easily penitrate the skull and burn holes in the brain, thus more inmates can be added to the asylum. These drivers cause standing waves on the skull surface, the intense migranes last for hours to days. Ask any horn "user" if he has frequent headaches. Do you really want to be a "Horn Man"? Are you horny for headach pain? Horns should have been phased out with the Victrola horns. Comments... |
Good for your caledonian soul and when you really want the music in your face which is a good thing. Subtlties be damned. |
The only joke is on the folks who say that modern horns perform badly, this is a bunch of BS.They image great ,have huge dynamics, large sound stage, can produce massive SPL without strain and can run on the smallest of amps.Most folks dont own horns because of WAF, price, size and there wrongly given bad reputation.Theres more SUV owners out there than Sports car owners does this mean a SUV has higher on road performance? Just because most folks own conventional loudspeakers doesnt make them better than horns.Thats why so many guys I know that have tried most everything system wise end up Hi eff and tube.Seems the folks who only hear horns briefly a shows or demos seem to be the ones with the - opinions, horn owners who have tried the rest in there system love there horns. |
High efficiency horns + tube amps & tube preamp = heaven.
If they are old horns rebuild the crossover. If the horns are metal and you think they are too harsh dampen them with dynamat or switch to a composite material horn.
HORNS ROCK! |
I dont think anyone has as yet on this forum seriusly faulted horns in general. |
Early on in my audio quest, I had Klipschorns, but I had a hole in the center. I bought Infnity ServoStatics which only gave me two windows to the recording studio. After trying every form of drivers, I heard the movie, the Last of the Mohicans on Altec VOTs. The amps were tube PP amps, but I was once again hooked by the horns' ability to have the pace and impact of sound, not just music.
Like others I think horns in general have two problems: needing many drivers to cover the full range, resulting in poorly integrated sound and honky or ringing horns. When I bought the Beauhorns, I got neither. The single driver was well integrated over the range that it could cover, and the box was deliberately resonant. The only problem was the bass was deficient as was the top end. The top end was easily dealt with using the Muratas, but there are no decent subwoofers to mate with horn drivers. Also the Lowthers are not compression drivers, which I find to be quicker.
I now have the Acapella LaCampanellas which are well integrated and almost as quick as the Beauhorns. They lack the plasma tweeter, but it always has stood out for me as better than the rest of the system. I once considered buying a full blown Goto compression driver system with 5 horns, but not only the expense but the question of integrating 5 horns deterred me.
In short I have a compromise speaker system and think I have no alternative. |
That I have upgraded to crossovers, binding post, and internal speaker wire. These sounded OK before the upgrade but now sound really nice with most gear, very nice on strings, vocal, and horns.
Steve. |
I suggest anyone curious about horns find an opportunity to hear PROPERLY setup Edgarhorn Titans w/ Seismic sub. If you can get by having 2.5 refrigerators siting in your listening room, they are devoid of any RINGING(wooden horns) whatsoever and dynamic as all getout. Startling dynmaics, to tell the truth. There is an effortless quality to presentation that eases sound into your ears. No edge, honk, or screech at all.
I have never, ever, heard any horn setup like Edgar's (except ESO's DIY 4-way horn rig).
Although, i personally prefer the coherence of high-eff single-drivers to multi-way horn setups. That's a personal preference, not performance related.
As they say, there something for everyone out there. |
As the Brits say, different horses for different courses. Based on my experience, a good horn speaker gets me closer to the experience of a live music event than other type of speaker. Given that speakers are typically the largest source of distortion, compression drivers and horn loading are an elegant solution because they have less mechanical movement compared to direct radiators. Planer speakers share this advantage, but aren't capable of displacing enough air to capture dynamics. As with most things, the key is in the implementation and execution.
But there are a lot of drawbacks, namely size, weight, number of drivers (at least 4 for true full-range reproduction). It would be very difficult to live with horns in a small room. I think this is the main reason for horns' lack of commercial success.
My Edgarhorns are superb all around. All speakers are compromised in some manner, but horns, if properly executed, are simply more true to live music.
Regards,
Scott |
Coouugar, are you speaking of the LaCampanellas? If so, can you tell me more? Directly if you wish.
Darkmoebius and Skushino, I certainly agree about the benefits of horns, but I have yet to hear Edgarhorns that I would buy. I find them not true to live music, but then again perhaps listening to them at shows is not the best enviornment. |
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Tbg,
Convention hall or jam packed hotel floors/rooms have to be the antithesis of proper listening conditions. The rooms are horrendous, sonically. AC Power is probably sludge. Ambient noise levels have got to be sky-high compared to home or actual audio shops. Structural/floor vibration levels have also got to be phenominal. Not many components are designed to perform well under those conditions.
Let alone the scarce amount of time exhibitors have to set up. Most truly great sounding home or shop audition rooms take months to fine tune into their best performance. Exhibitors have 2 days or les with all the other handicaps listed above and more.
I'm not saying that Edgarhorns are the best transducers on Earth, just that a properly setup system is truly impressive and unique in it's presentation.
As I mentioned, I use Dr E's system (and Eso's) as my own personal reference standard for sheer dynamics, ease of presentation, and the recreation of brass/horns. Nothing does horns like horns.
But, for tonality, coherence, and rich texture(along with size), I prefer well-done single-drivers right now. Something about it just seems "right" for me, personally.
Although, check with me in a year and I could have a whole different story/system.(finances permitting) |
Sean, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about speakers but when I e-mail you with links to a bunch of different drivers you never respond. What gives? |
I agree 99% with johnk, although I go to shows TO mainly listen to horn speakers. Since I crossed over circa 1993 to horns they are the only speakers that I will let occupy one end of my room. The realism (IMHO) that horns can produce is just not there for my ears in conventional speakers, that is not say all a enclosed speakers are bad, Its just they are not for me. I am smitten with my Oris 150's. And as stated earlier they are upgradeable without the possible need to get on both knees in front of the bank manager. |
Moderator, please let this go through.
I have heard several of Johnks speakers at his place and he is correct. Some of his horns were Duos and Phy etc. Many others at his place were his own designs.
I guess it matters which horns you hear! |
I love horns.I own Edgarhorns and built back loaded horns.
They have a scale,richness and dynamic ease that is very musical.
Where they fail though is phase coherency. Compared to point source,planar or a really well designed dynamic speakers they can sound a bit diffuse and softly focussed.This seems to especially apply to large midrange horns where phase relationships due the physical placement of drivers relative to each other[a long way apart] is difficult to align.So you get a bit of a phasey sound.Things like voices can wander around a bit in the soundstage.
Of course placing a point source driver in a back and front loaded horn as Tannoy does overcomes this and still gives the horn magic. |
im running an oris horn ultra setup, that consists of an oris 150 with aer bd3 driver on top, and an oris 150 with a fostex p38 15" driver on the bottom inside berts referance cabinet, amps are welborne 45 drd on top and rawsonte gainclones on bass, signal through a supratek chenin pre. source is a vpi tntwith a graham 1.5 arm and a lyra beta cart, crossover is a welborne revell set at 160hz , sound is nothing short of excellent, every person that enters my home and hears the system leaves with a new appreciation for sound, and horns............i will never go back |
Ro425,
Are you serious that J. Gordon Holt agrees with you that horns are superior? I question that. |
Listener614, I still remember my first hearing of horn in the early '70s. A used pair of Klipschorns were sitting in the back room of a Tallahassee dealers hooked to a Dyna Stereo 70. The first piece was a snare drum which was so fast and loud that I almost fell off the high work seat I was sitting on. I bought them.
When it comes to speed and efficiency, there is nothing better. I am quite happy with my Tidals, but they are not a fast |
Worked with horns for PA systems and theaters over 20 years ago. Never occurred to me to bring them home. Even back then, tried to sell custom line arrays with rare success (once). Not a typical line array by today's standard as it used a single horn tweeter, 6 X 10" and 6 X 5" and 2 amps per channel. |
Well I'm sure you "horn haters" have merit, after all if something sucks to your ears what good is it for someone to try to talk you out of it??? I bought my Khorns based on memory alone, when I got em I wawnt so impressed! cut to the chase.... after some research I bought ALK wood trachorns, ALK extreme slope xovers, crites tweeters JBL 2470 mid drivers and rewired them w/ cardas solid silver...The transformation was astonishing to say the least! Tube gear is a MUST I run Mcintosh MC2000's , C2300 preamp and tron seven reference phono stage. If your near Sullivan county NY come have a listen! |
